This isn't a who wants my stuff thread

[bustacap]

Anyone know why stealth toggles not stacking in PVE became a thing. I don't like rock solid builds having to use unslotters becuase of changing how something worked since launch. I mean its a nerf to my fire controllers endurance as I have to change a run/end to a stealth IO. 

 

Really makes me think I should spend my time more constructively though.  

Edited January 12, 2023 by bustacap
bad grammer

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, bustacap said:

Anyone know why stealth toggles not stacking in PVE became a thing. I don't like rock solid builds having to use unslotters becuase of changing how something worked since launch. I mean its a nerf to my fire controllers endurance as I have to change a run/end to a stealth IO. 

 

Really makes me think I should spend my time more constructively though.  

I can't speak to the devs underlying intentions, but I have taken to running combat jumping with a stealth IO on several of my characters - it serves as another LotG mule, the immob protection is nice, and it has quite possibly the lowest end cost of any power in the game, (of course excepting the no-cost toggles).

[twozerofoxtrot]

... but can I have your stuff,  tho?

[bustacap]

Its a nerf to both support sets with an aura (steamy mist/the cold dom one/and shadow fall) and super speed. I mean thats how I level those power sets. It makes me post o the forum instead of play the game. It makes me never want to take anything but hasten from the speed pool. 

 

Its dumb. It's a dumb change that wasn't a problem. It was a benefit of those 3 power sets. Pvp sure I get it. BUT getting my butt handed to me by clockwork because IM dragging half a map is dumb. Do i just have to get a celrity +stealth in sprint mandatory for all characters now. 

 

 

[Nyghtmaire]

How does this categorize as a nerf? 

Sprint is .292 end/sec

Super speed is .455 end/sec

 

The result of the change is a free power pick in exchange for the purchase of a stealth IO. Also less endurance for less runspeed. Back on Live, this was a common way (especially before inherent Fitness) of gaining full stealth with Shadow Fall and similar powers. @biostem’s suggestion works too, with the caveat that Combat Jumping needs to be turned off with escorts (which has been true for all stealth since time immemorial). 

Are you suggesting you have Super Speed active with Sprint? That’s your endurance problem right there…

[bustacap]

I have a fire/dark so can't really ever have endurance issues with that hero realistically.  Controller /dark has the signature regen/recovery sustain that eclipses all other like powers that can affect everyone near you. It's really good. 

 

 

I now have to use SS and sprint with celerity to stealth maps now as before I could use SS and stealth auras. 

 

Most builds can handle the toggles of sprint and travel power. Maybe while leveling but after Ios...

 

Before SS and shadow fall and be invisible to mobs.

 

Now I (have to for the same performance) run shadow fall, SS, and sprint. Thats whats dumb

 

The endurance isn't the point. It is still a nerf to the endurance on support power sets as they now have to run sprint with celerity. And there is a difference between the price of a celerity and +5 quick foot 

 

Its more of why. What was broken about it that it needed to be changed?

 

NOBODY has an issue with ghosting missions. The OG developer even made a class that could do it level 1.

 

 

 

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, bustacap said:

It is still a nerf to the endurance on support power sets as they now have to run sprint with celerity

You use that phrase "have to", but let's be honest - it's really more of a "want to".  Don't get me wrong, I don't know the "true intentions" behind the change to stealth, but there are ways to adapt that cost little end, or you could just change your tactics...

[bustacap]

Your advise is shut up and take it basically.

 

I listed already what I did to make myself stealthable again.

 

Can I not call it dumb and get an answer on why change the way its been since IOs were introduced. 

[twozerofoxtrot]

37 minutes ago, bustacap said:

Can I not call it dumb and get an answer on why change the way its been since IOs were introduced

 

Yes to the first, no to the latter.

 

The Devs have not gone into detail as to why they have made this change. There's been a lot of commentary on this here in the forums without any real answer from them and just of lot of petty bickering from players.

 

And so, you get answers to your question that aren't satisfactory. 

 

 

....

 

Can I have your stuff now?

[bustacap]

I have 40 something OF procs sitting in storage want one =p

 

 

On that note IT IS DUMB

[biostem]

1 hour ago, bustacap said:

Your advise is shut up and take it basically.

No, my advice is that online games change, and you either adapt or give up.  Which one is entirely up to you.

 

1 hour ago, bustacap said:

Can I not call it dumb

That's is certainly your right.

 

1 hour ago, bustacap said:

and get an answer on why change the way its been since IOs were introduced. 

Only the current batch of devs can give you that, but going back to my first point, MMOs are going to change over time.  It is fully within your power to change as well...

[lemming]

2 hours ago, bustacap said:

NOBODY has an issue with ghosting missions. The OG developer even made a class that could do it level 1.

Not sure about that when they threw a bunch of mechanics into missions where you wound up having to clear a room that you used to ghost the objective.

 

While the devs didn't go into detail on why, they did make it that multiple stealth like powers could be on at the same time.  I actually like it like that since there are some characters that I wanted stealth on since they weren't able to stack with, but my only option was either an IO or super speed, and I'm not fond of super speed myself.  There are some combos now that I like better.

 

Of course, there's always the option of making use of more stealthy tricks such as keeping some distance from mobs (and sometimes just not staying near).  Outside some maps, you can stealth a mission with infiltration and a smaller set of maps without any actual stealth.

 

I'm also guessing you haven't been on for awhile, since this was released in october. (though thru a real short beta cycle imo)

[bustacap]

I'm on, just less since October.

 

And it's the new year so lots of new things to check out. Winter sale and game awards provide that.

 

 

and that particular main was a synapse champ since creation. I was "let's give MC a spin and why can they see me?"

 

Pretty sure he's the only hero that runs without celerity and SS since he wouldn't need too before. If I could get a new pool I wouldn't get SS since this change.

 

Even my fort use celerity. 

 

I play this game becuase I remeber the mechanics and most times it's easy. Changing this particular mechanic and how it works is something I disaprove of.

 

I don't want to relearn changed mechanics that I knew for over a decade. It not better, its actually worse. The change is worse than what came before. 

 

 

[Grimm2]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:53 PM, lemming said:

 

 

While the devs didn't go into detail on why, they did make it that multiple stealth like powers could be on at the same time.

I think here's your answer, @bustacap.

 

The devs opened up build opportunities by allowing stealth powers to be taken and run concurrently. To prevent super stealth stacking, they made it so only the strongest active stealth effect applies. They also likely saw that players can still get effective invisibility with a single minor IO slot that would not require entire character rebuilds. You've even identified the solution yourself. 

 

Shout at the traffic from your porch and wave your cane, I'll bring over some beers and we can rail at the world together. 

[bustacap]

On 1/14/2023 at 12:48 PM, Grimm2 said:

I think here's your answer, @bustacap.

 

The devs opened up build opportunities by allowing stealth powers to be taken and run concurrently. To prevent super stealth stacking, they made it so only the strongest active stealth effect applies. They also likely saw that players can still get effective invisibility with a single minor IO slot that would not require entire character rebuilds. You've even identified the solution yourself. 

 

Shout at the traffic from your porch and wave your cane, I'll bring over some beers and we can rail at the world together. 

 

Which is a nerf to super speed. It makes speed pool as irrelevant as fitness now. Just give everyone inherent hasten, if I have to slot stealth IOs like every other power set (as Storm/Dark/cold could slot end instead). This doesn't differentiate builds, it homogenized a piece for all builds. It was one of those benefits to those power sets pre IOs that persisted past IOs. It persisted until this dumb change. 

[SeraphimKensai]

Here's the link for the discussion while it was in Beta: 

I was then and remain a staunch supporter that super speed should of been removed from the stealth exclusivity list prior to going live.

Edited January 26, 2023 by SeraphimKensai
Grammar

[BrandX]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:11 PM, bustacap said:

Anyone know why stealth toggles not stacking in PVE became a thing. I don't like rock solid builds having to use unslotters becuase of changing how something worked since launch. I mean its a nerf to my fire controllers endurance as I have to change a run/end to a stealth IO. 

 

Really makes me think I should spend my time more constructively though.  

 

Stealth Toggles never stacked in PvE.  Before they detoggles the other.  Now they all stay toggles and you just get the best results

 

 

[lemming]

46 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Stealth Toggles never stacked in PvE.  Before they detoggles the other.  Now they all stay toggles and you just get the best results

I do prefer that this happens.   Arctic Fog plus Stealth allows me to sneak while allowing me to keep my defense up.

I might drop Stealth later and just tp past close mobs since it's normally good enough if I keep a little distance.

I'm not really affected by the SS change, but one still gets some stealth, just not a "be sitting 5' away" stealth.

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Stealth Toggles never stacked in PvE.  Before they detoggles the other.  Now they all stay toggles and you just get the best results

 

 

 

I see a confused face, I'm going to guess that's for the one power, Super Speed, stacking I believe it was, but from my understand Super Speed at the times, wasn't considered stealth, but something else?  But Stealth didn't stack with Arctic Air for instance.  That was two stealth powers.

Hide did I believe, but not sure if that's still the case.

[bustacap]

SS always stacked with the support set auras, since launch. Thats what I meant earlier about having to relearn a decade worth of ingrained game knowledge.

[Jiro Ito]

just wanted to mention, any AT can also go to the sg base buff terminal and get an invisibility buff

[Wravis]

On 1/26/2023 at 1:51 AM, bustacap said:

 

Which is a nerf to super speed. It makes speed pool as irrelevant as fitness now. Just give everyone inherent hasten, if I have to slot stealth IOs like every other power set (as Storm/Dark/cold could slot end instead). This doesn't differentiate builds, it homogenized a piece for all builds. It was one of those benefits to those power sets pre IOs that persisted past IOs. It persisted until this dumb change. 

Super speed makes you run super fast and jump far. Do you also think Leaping is useless? Teleporting?

 

They get you there faster. That’s what they’re for.

 

I agree the change is stupid but that doesn’t make the set irrelevant.

[Tacheyon]

7 hours ago, Wravis said:

Super speed makes you run super fast and jump far. Do you also think Leaping is useless? Teleporting?

 

They get you there faster. That’s what they’re for.

 

I agree the change is stupid but that doesn’t make the set irrelevant.

 

 

Also Burnout is a thing that some people use (Thugs MM for one). 

 

To get to that power I am not taking Flurry.

[bustacap]

If you're going for burnout sure. If you want fold space sure. On that note your Stone tank can be a hover tank now. I do like teleport when it tied with hover. I like it with Mystic flight. I like it with speed of sound. 

 

If you are a cold dom why bother with SS now? Yes, your still married to the speed pool for hasten. But why pick up SS when you could get Hover or Speed of sound and the T4 those pools have. Same for storm and dark. 

 

The only travel good for MM pets is group fly though. Don't make me fight that inherent "ignore group fly" in the options argument again. It gets no traction. Those dudes just don't keep up with you without it and it breaks a bunch of power sets allowing you to troll people. I once couldn't get a fire brute to walk to the other side of pocket D so he could ignore it. I just farmed the other half of the map.