Permadomination and autodomination questions

[Yomo Kimyata]

To date, I've never gotten a dominator past the 30s, so maybe this is something that becomes clear at end game, but...

 

So, I see that domination is good.  It does a lot of good things, and I understand that when we get good things we like to get them *all the time*.  90 second duration and 200 second recharge, yup, yup, easily doable.

 

The good things:

 

Doubles the mag of mez and increases the duration by 50% at regular mag.  This is great at low levels when you are trying to stop that boss, but it seems to me that once you get higher levels and more mez powers and more slotting, it's not as great.  Sure, you can mez AVs, but only when the purple triangles are down, and you can do that even without double mag.  So good things, but not world beating in my opinion.

 

Complete endurance bar filled.  Now this is great!  And having it fill every 89 seconds automatically is good on average, but certainly at early levels I feel like I would prefer to have it when I need it.

 

Mez protection.  This is also great!  And having it up constantly means you don't ever think about it.  But I'm used enough to squishies without mez protection that I know I can get it elsewhere, or at least figure out how to mitigate it.  I'd be totally happy activating it when I was mezzed, like Rune of Protection or popping a breakie.

 

So it strikes me that I would in general rather have domination on demand, rather than on auto.  The rub here, of course, is that if domination expires and hasn't been renewed within 90 seconds, you have to build it up again from scratch.  So it seems that the time it takes to rebuild is the problem and that's why autopermadom is the standard.

 

So my questions to you dominating folks are:

 

1.  Does my analysis make sense or am I missing something(s)?  Are there other reasons to keep it on auto?

2.  How long does it really take to build up domination from scratch once you are, say, 40+ and nicely equipped?  Let's assume solo but running x5-8.  I know that I could just figure this out on my own, but as of now I clearly have difficulties sticking with the AT long enough to find out.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Meknomancer]

I don't number crunch or time stuff, i run it on auto because its the easy option, i don't have to watch for it dropping which it sometimes will if i'm on some low lvl content like yin and queueing an attack chain. I can fill it while waiting on tf teams forming if i have something like combustion/psy shockwave/whirling hands/engulfing darkness and just toss that on auto til teams fill. You could also consider going full vill and getting the alignment power that instantly tops it up at 1 click. The time it takes to build seems dependent on what powers your using, mind control seems really fast with dominate/mesmerize/levitate but as soon as you start hitting the secondary the bar doesn't seem to fill quickly so i tend to open up with the controls as much as possible before using the dps.

[Uun]

1. I think you've largely captured it, but I think you're underestimating value of mezzing bosses in one shot. It's not just your ST mezzes. Your AoE mezzes (with long CDs) can mezz bosses. So barring a miss or hitting target limits, you can incapacitate an entire spawn in one go. You also want to avoid situations where you need Domination up to fight a boss but you've defeated all the nearby mobs and there's nothing for you to use as fuel.
2. Domination builds faster the more teammates you have, so the bar fills faster on large teams. Solo, it can take a minute or two. I'm not sure if the meter builds faster using ST vs. AoE or primary vs. secondary.

[MoonSheep]

being able to confuse AVs through PTOD is nice too

 

knowing you can lock down an entire mob instantly is very valuable

[Mezmera]

On 2/4/2023 at 3:57 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

1.  Does my analysis make sense or am I missing something(s)?  Are there other reasons to keep it on auto?

 

It's a decent analysis yes.  If I play a dom low level I would save to click domination for when I really need it so it's good to have it in the bag.  Usually when I'm around level 30 and plan to play the dom all the way up I will start kitting it to get permadom, it's just a total different animal running content if you're proactively controlling mob to mob.  

 

Another thing about Domination is that on the reclick you get 25% tohitt for the first 15s so if you're ever in need of really hitting your targets you can wait to just after clicking it to detonate your best stuff.  

 

On 2/4/2023 at 3:57 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

2.  How long does it really take to build up domination from scratch once you are, say, 40+ and nicely equipped?  Let's assume solo but running x5-8.  I know that I could just figure this out on my own, but as of now I clearly have difficulties sticking with the AT long enough to find out.

 

On teams of 8 it fills back up quick as additional teammates give you larger chunks each power you use in proximity of them.  Even still I do my best not to die on this as even if you do rez and can build it back fast if you had just recently clicked Domination it'll be a while before you can get back into it.  

 

There's ways to get domination built fast.  You can constantly interrupt your slow snipe but you will want to chug some blues or use Gaes.  

 

Dominators get most of their better assaults later so until 30 or so you'll be mainly control then when you get your later attacks and some of those great Epic pool powers your dom starts to come into shape.  Doms are late bloomers due to best assaults coming late and permadom.  Once you wade into those waters it gets all kinds of fun.  

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

Another thing about Domination is that on the reclick you get 25% tohitt for the first 15s so if you're ever in need of really hitting your targets you can wait to just after clicking it to detonate your best stuff.  

 

I *did* not know this, thank you!

[Captain Fabulous]

Good analysis, but I don't agree with your assessment that these things aren't useful. Mezzing bosses on one hit is very useful. Having your AoE hold up ASAP is very useful (not a function of Domination itself, but if you have enough recharge for permadom it's gonna come back pretty quickly). Ditto with filling the endurance bar. And while you can mitigate being mezzed in various ways, why waste powers or slots to do it when you have a built-in power that will do it for you? Full-time mez protection is pretty darned good to have.

As others have said, teaming will make the bar fill faster. But I also seem to remember that your primary powers will fill the bar faster than secondary and pool powers. The difference between playing a permadom and non-permadom Dominator is like night and day. It's totally next level.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Yomo Kimyata]

34 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Good analysis, but I don't agree with your assessment that these things aren't useful.

 

Not that they are not useful -- I'm just trying to assess whether I'm better served with autoperma or by activating on demand!

[Mezmera]

5 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Not that they are not useful -- I'm just trying to assess whether I'm better served with autoperma or by activating on demand!

 

Well once you go perma you'll not want to come out of it if you can avoid that.  I don't even like losing domination when I'm goofing off semi-afk.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Mezmera

[twozerofoxtrot]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Not that they are not useful -- I'm just trying to assess whether I'm better served with autoperma or by activating on demand!

 

On a good build there's literally no upshot to losing Dom.

 

You should have both the End sustainment and ToHit available at any given moment. The blue bar refresh should be viewed as a perk not a crutch.

 

Think of it as the difference between walking into danger with a loaded gun versus your ammunition in your backpack. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by twozerofoxtrot

[Captain Fabulous]

16 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Not that they are not useful -- I'm just trying to assess whether I'm better served with autoperma or by activating on demand!

There is a significant IO investment to get enough recharge to make it happen, so maybe try it out on the test server and see for yourself.

[SwitchFade]

On 2/4/2023 at 3:57 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

To date, I've never gotten a dominator past the 30s, so maybe this is something that becomes clear at end game, but...

 

So, I see that domination is good.  It does a lot of good things, and I understand that when we get good things we like to get them *all the time*.  90 second duration and 200 second recharge, yup, yup, easily doable.

 

The good things:

 

Doubles the mag of mez and increases the duration by 50% at regular mag.  This is great at low levels when you are trying to stop that boss, but it seems to me that once you get higher levels and more mez powers and more slotting, it's not as great.  Sure, you can mez AVs, but only when the purple triangles are down, and you can do that even without double mag.  So good things, but not world beating in my opinion.

 

Complete endurance bar filled.  Now this is great!  And having it fill every 89 seconds automatically is good on average, but certainly at early levels I feel like I would prefer to have it when I need it.

 

Mez protection.  This is also great!  And having it up constantly means you don't ever think about it.  But I'm used enough to squishies without mez protection that I know I can get it elsewhere, or at least figure out how to mitigate it.  I'd be totally happy activating it when I was mezzed, like Rune of Protection or popping a breakie.

 

So it strikes me that I would in general rather have domination on demand, rather than on auto.  The rub here, of course, is that if domination expires and hasn't been renewed within 90 seconds, you have to build it up again from scratch.  So it seems that the time it takes to rebuild is the problem and that's why autopermadom is the standard.

 

So my questions to you dominating folks are:

 

1.  Does my analysis make sense or am I missing something(s)?  Are there other reasons to keep it on auto?

2.  How long does it really take to build up domination from scratch once you are, say, 40+ and nicely equipped?  Let's assume solo but running x5-8.  I know that I could just figure this out on my own, but as of now I clearly have difficulties sticking with the AT long enough to find out.

 

Thanks in advance!

Hiya. You want to build for 155% or greater redux and 35+ defenses to most.

 

Having permadom transforms the play, and can be done early. Without the increased mag and damage, you aren't tough enough to soak alpha consistently. Even at 50 with end mitigation, a fast moving dom will deplete the end bar, and the refill is basically all you need to never have end issues, and can be achieved from lvl 28 on up.

 

If you forget to fire dom, that's ok, building for that level of recharge will assure you high damage due to fast chains, quick recharge on holds for stacking and lots of end, it's how you survive as an alpha taker and can lead teams at 4/8.

 

You realistically cannot rely on defense as mitigation and don't have Blasty level damage to wipe them fast enough to be that squishy. You want huge control, huge recharge and good defense to all 

 

Permadom is a side effect of making a face tank dominator. I play earth/earth/ice, mind/psi/ice and am working on ice/rad/ice and fire/ice/ice.

 

I can show you in game if you like.

[tidge]

PermaDom is the mechanism by which Dominators can play x8 content (solo or in groups). You need the Mezz protection, you need the control (of an entire spawns, including bosses) and you need the blue bar refill because you WILL be burning end to count the coup.

 

It is quasi-obvious for almost every other AT (maybe not MMs, maybe not AFK farmers) that global Recharge is the mechanism for clearing large spawns as quickly as possible...but Endurance costs and Recovery will eventually catch up...in the case of Dominators the blue bar refill is the crucial element for them to keep up.

[Snarky]

one weird trick to build Dom without combat.  Target with your snipe.   start to snipe.  move!  you get Dom credit for attacking but never fire.  burns a ton of endurance but that Dom bar goes right up.

[MonteCarla]

I really like being able to mez a whole group of Carnies with one click, including the Master Illusionists, before they pop their pets out.

That's what perma-Dom does for you.

 

And with perma-Dom levels of recharge you can do that for every single group as you roll through missions.

 

I slot my Doms purely for recharge eg 4 slots of Basilisks Gaze in each Hold power, 5 of Stupefy/Malaise etc in other mezzes, 5 Manticore in a sniper, LotG uniques in Weave, Hover/CJ and Manouevers. I slot these with attuned IOs as I level, and usually start chaining Dominations by level 30, with reliable perma-Dom kicking in by the mid 30s. I have Domination on autofire and bound to Q, and Hasten bound to E so I can set it off easily. 

 

I can't imagine playing a Dominator without perma-Dom. It's that good.

[Not Surprised]

On 2/6/2023 at 5:13 PM, Mezmera said:

 

Well once you go perma you'll not want to come out of it if you can avoid that.  I don't even like losing domination when I'm goofing off semi-afk.

 

Yep, when Domination expires I feel as useless as a Brute without Fury. 

[brasilgringo]

Isn't there an alignment power (Frenzy) for Villains or similar that fills Dom instantly on click?

[Uun]

5 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

Isn't there an alignment power (Frenzy) for Villains or similar that fills Dom instantly on click?

Yes https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Alignment_Powers#Frenzy

[Mezmera]

11 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

Isn't there an alignment power (Frenzy) for Villains or similar that fills Dom instantly on click?

 

Yes but its an inconvenient one because you have to remain full villain which locks you out of 60-70% extra stuff you can play.  Once my characters are done accolading I'll switch to Rogue to be able to play everything and never switch again.