2023 HC Base Contest - Discussion

[Romeyn]

How many bases are you allowed to enter?

[COH-KittyKat]

2 hours ago, Easter Bunny said:

The judging panel will consist of your Base Building Community Reps (Dacy and I) and the previous Winners and Finalists from the last HC Base Building Contest in 2020 (should they decide not to enter this year's contest with a different base).

Would this be 2022?

[COH-KittyKat]

2 hours ago, Easter Bunny said:

The only bases ineligible for this contest are the Runner-Ups, Finalists and Winners of the 2020 HC Base Contest (Gold Title winners). All other bases are fair game and welcome!

Oh and this too

[Dacy]

The first and only base contest was, I believe in 2020, Easter bunny I’m pretty sure looked it up. The second is a typo, you are correct. It should say 2023. Easter bunny will correct it I’m sure.

 

Dacy

Edited January 24, 2023 by Dacy

[Easter Bunny]

You nearly had me convinced, Dacy! But, no, not a typo. The first and only HC endorsed Base Contest was in 2020, and we have invited the finalists from that same 2020 Contest back as our judging panel.

[Easter Bunny]

3 hours ago, Romeyn said:

How many bases are you allowed to enter?

Just a single lowly one 😞 But do not worry! There will be more contests

[Dacy]

3 hours ago, Easter Bunny said:

You nearly had me convinced, Dacy! But, no, not a typo. The first and only HC endorsed Base Contest was in 2020, and we have invited the finalists from that same 2020 Contest back as our judging panel.

Whoops! I didn’t check context. Sorry!

 

-Dacy

[GM Impervium]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:15 AM, Romeyn said:

How many bases are you allowed to enter?

 

I beleive it's one entry per person/SG Leader.

 

There's a bit of gray area / wiggle room in the event of multiple people contributing the the build of a base. Like, if you've helped three people build thier bases, and they all enter, you'll be entitled to a share of the spoils if any of them win. EDIT: See Dacy's reply! But you don't get to enter someone elses base on their behalf if you're not the SG leader.

 

@Dacy or @Easter Bunny could probably clarify or correct me on this.

Edited January 25, 2023 by GM Impervium

[Dacy]

28 minutes ago, GM Impervium said:

Like, if you've helped three people build thier bases, and they all enter, you'll be entitled to a share of the spoils if any of them win.

I need to correct this: you can only enter one base and be entered to win with one base. If you happen to have worked on another base, and someone involved with that base enters it, you don’t get to share in the spoils with that. You have to choose which one base you want to represent you and your chances to win.

This differs from the first Homecoming base contest in that, you could only enter with one base, and that meant that if there was another base, owned by someone else, that you worked on, they were now ineligible to enter that base. In our 2023 contest, a builder may have worked on multiple bases that are entered, but may only win with the one they choose to enter with. 
 

-Dacy

Edited January 25, 2023 by Dacy

[laudwic]

9 hours ago, ScarredSilencer said:

Character name: Build'It Bill
Global: @ScarredSilencer
Base or SG Name: The Dark Coven
Shard: Everlasting
Passcode: DARKCOVEN-5519
Item Count: 6,999

Category for Contest: RP Base Under 7K Items
Other associated contributors, (up to 4 more people): Not Applicable

Additional Info / Must-See Areas of Note: The primary method of seeing areas in this base is by doorways. They will just be open doorways, and need to be walked through to enter new rooms. However, certain other areas are accessible via teleporters hidden into surfaces that look like doors. Some of these are decently well-hidden. This base will be most easily shown off via base tour as there is a lot of twists and turns.

The base itself is a Vampire run Industrial/Metal Goth nightclub. It is heavily inspired from Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, and World of Darkness. While also serving as a nightclub, it is also a well protected sanctuary for vampires and their kindred to work with one another under the watchful eye of Baroness Eris, a tall and foreboding vampire figure having lived a great, yet unknown, number of years with one goal in mind. Raise their kind from the ash and shadow, and eliminate the Brotherhood of the Moon, a rival clan of werewolves.

Easily missed locations/Must-Sees:
A - The door directly to the left of the entrance portal has a teleporter to access an apartment that's a well detailed portion of the base.
B - In through the main door of the nightclub, directly to the right, behind the bar, is a hallway. This hallway leads to a great many areas, but through the hallway, there is another doorway on the right entering into a secondary lounge/bar area that's a must-see.
C - In the area directly mentioned in B, there's teleporter doors to a rainy side street with a truck. Check the back of the truck for a super secret teleporter. 😉
D - Back on the main dance floor, up on the stage, there's a doorway that leads into an office area backstage. Continue through this area until you reach a set of stairs leading up to a teleporter door. This teleporter door leads to a main office, that's a well detailed portion of the base.
E - In the main office mentioned in D, there's a teleporter door to a bedroom. In the bedroom, there is a hidden teleporter behind a plant, that leads down into a whole secret crypt area.

... and much more.

Screenshots:

 

This is where I would like a "Holy Crap!"  reaction for forum posts. . . . 

[Dragonicle]

any base builders for hire excelsior?

[Dacy]

5 hours ago, captainstar said:

Character name: DarkDemon
Global: @StarVoid
Base or SG Name: ALPHA CORP
Shard: Excelsior
Passcode: 2345678-22229
Category for Contest: Multipurpose Base
Other associated contributors: @lucaslsr

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sXP3Ju6NcT0VbjB2_feRG24NvzTjp8rP/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tWyQfNZMFGnpu52J-KjSYblSbMNXPj_9/view?usp=sharing

Dark Demon, you need to go to the "plot" button on the entry room popup, or type /editbase 3 to get the upgrade plot prompt; go into that and look to see the total number of items placed. You have not chosen whether your base should be in the under or over 7k items, and the pic is so we know how you got that total. I'm guessing from the total here, that  your whole base is not over 7k, but you do need to specify which category you are entering. Thanks!

 

-Dacy

[GM Impervium]

@Dragonicle, This isn't the place to ask for that. I suggest making a thread in the Base Construction forum; While doing so, you'll probably be asked for details about what you want, so, be ready to provide that info.

[captainstar]

18 hours ago, Dacy said:

Dark Demon, you need to go to the "plot" button on the entry room popup, or type /editbase 3 to get the upgrade plot prompt; go into that and look to see the total number of items placed. You have not chosen whether your base should be in the under or over 7k items, and the pic is so we know how you got that total. I'm guessing from the total here, that  your whole base is not over 7k, but you do need to specify which category you are entering. Thanks!

 

-Dacy

 

 

k, changed now. Tks

[Sun]

 

Thank you Dacy and Easter Bunny for bringing us another astounding Base Building Contest! I honor the passion and work you have gifted us. And I'll take this opportunity as well to thank our developers who have created a player housing system among the best, to me, currently in the industry, and have made nothing less than stunning things possible from our community. It’s a wonderful world isn’t it? I might sign up myself because it looks really fun. However, I must question the direction this contest is going because I do not understand one criterion of the entry, and thus have a question, if I may:

 

Why... is there a discernment between bases that fall above, or below a certain item count threshold?

 

Now, rather than extending this question into a lengthy post, perhaps fraught with assumptions and misses, I’ll gladly step aside and allow the CRs an opportunity to address it, then maybe follow up with a comment of my own.

 

Thanks,

Monk of Indom

[Dacy]

Hi! We welcome  your questions and comments.

 

The reason we have two different categories was to distinguish between "small" and "large" bases.  Last contest, some of the smaller bases felt at a disadvantage because, to many, a bigger base is a more impressive base. Certainly a bigger base can do more; the more pieces you have used, typically, the more detail you've included, unless your focus is very specific and small. And it gave us a logical dividing point so we could have two winners in a particular category; one will just be a larger base than the other. We wanted to be sure that people knew that, if a base wins, it's not because of its size, it's because of its quality.

 

-Dacy (with a certain CR Easter Bunny looking over my virtual shoulder)

[UltraAlt]

3 hours ago, Dacy said:

A Utility base

 

4 hours ago, Dacy said:

A Multipurpose base

 

4 hours ago, Dacy said:

An RP base

 

@Easter Bunny (as not to be accidently left out of the loop)

 

Should bases listed in the wiki be listed to conform with these 3 base types?

Does a Utility base have no NPCs other than utility NPCs in it?

Are there other specific definitions that we should be going with as a community?

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Everlasting_Base_List lists base types and breaks the base listing down into these categories (each category having its own alphabetical order)  as Commercial/Office, Commercial Retail, Dining, Entertainment and Night Life, ERP Focused, Government, Industrial, Mixed, Other/Misc, Residential, Rural/Wilderness, Transit Hub, and Unknown.

Someone decided to go in and setup all those categories and sort the bases that were around at the time into the category that they felt that they should be in and not the category that someone may have originally posted their bases to.

So,  basically, RPG (Commercial/Office, Commercial Retail, Dining, Entertainment and Night Life, ERP Focused, Government, Industrial, Mixed, Other/Misc, Residential, and Rural/Wilderness) and Utility (Transit Hub and Unknown?) if I'm breaking those down into RPG and Utility properly. If they are multi-purpose, they appear to be mixed within the RPG and Utility.

 

In comparison, https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Torchbearer_Base_List (much shorter list) does not break down the base list into categories, but simply has a column for the category within the table. Each poster defines/list a category of their choosing with no defined restrictions.

 

In general, the non-Everlasting listings use mainly 2 listing types; Transit Hub (Utility?) and Open (RPG?) 

 

The impact for classifications in this sense appears to be for contest purposes only at this point.

Homecoming has been pretty free-form in regards to many aspects of the game. We haven't had Base Community Reps for long, so this is something that hasn't been discussed/defined clearly before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dacy]

4 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Should bases listed in the wiki be listed to conform with these 3 base types?

Does a Utility base have no NPCs other than utility NPCs in it?

Are there other specific definitions that we should be going with as a community?

 

4 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Homecoming has been pretty free-form in regards to many aspects of the game. We haven't had Base Community Reps for long, so this is something that hasn't been discussed/defined clearly before.

Um, argh. You know, I've never been a CR before, either...I hadn't considered the categories we came up with for the contest (THIS contest, there will be others and likely not the same categories at all!) to be in any way definitive for anything except the contest, and I don't think EB was thinking of those sort of ramifications, either.

 

We simply were thinking of types of bases we've seen. Now, there are other types, which will be covered (probably not all at once) in future contests. A hub base, we would consider to be a specialized base. My Witch's House, too, is a specialized base. A specialized base has a specific function. Bases made for holding contests would fit in this category, too.

 

Most people have utility bases. A utility base is simply a base made to function and provide the services bases can provide. In this category, we will be judging things like accessibility, organization, completeness of services offered, and then there's the window dressing, or how it looks. There are no rules on that other than the rubric we put up would imply, as to the quality of the work. NPCs that don't provide services are window dressing, so they could be used...or not. Some people want a really nice, thematic base, and have made one or had one made, but they don't actually RP in the base, it is just designed to appeal to the builder/owner's aesthetic or backstory, and because it's not intended to actually be RP'd in, the builder does not have to account for character accommodations, because there are some chairs that  can't be sat in, and chairs must be a certain distance from a table for a character to be able to sit and not "float" at the level of the table, due to the hit box. So, although the base can look much like an RP base, it doesn't have to make sure that characters can interact with its environment.

 

A great number of bases on Everlasting are strictly RP bases. An RP base is created to fulfill an RP desire or need. Maybe it's a house, apartment complex, a school, a mall, a park...or perhaps it's more complex and part of an ever growing story that changes according to the needs of the builder or group that is using it, but it has a STORY, and the story relates to the characters that use it. You can usually see evidence of the stories in the base. This sort of base doesn't have to worry about services, tho they may have some, but their base should definitely be accessible for characters. People should be able to sit at the tables, walk around things, and so forth.

 

A Multipurpose base is one that has a story and an RP connection, but also provides all of the services.  This is perhaps the highest level of difficulty as far as what's required, because this sort of base has to keep in mind not only character accessibility, but it has to make sure its services are complete, logical, organized, accessible, and to top it all off, the services should, ideally, be part of the base design in a way that complements the design instead of interrupting it.

 

Again, these are our definitions, and we made them and the size categories to be more inclusive. Making the utilitarian base into something beautiful can be a different skill set from those that create worlds from their imagination; we want to appreciate both kinds of work, and also appreciate those that manage to combine both into one project. Our categories are more about focusing on the different kinds of skills involved, than trying to categorize the products of this server's healthy imaginations.

 

33 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

In comparison, https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Torchbearer_Base_List (much shorter list) does not break down the base list into categories, but simply has a column for the category within the table. Each poster defines/list a category of their choosing with no defined restrictions.

Right. As far as I can tell, the descriptions are not categories as we have set up categories, they are descriptions that help the RP crowd know where to find a particular sort of base if they are looking for something in particular, and the hubs get a separate designation because that's helpful for people who want to use them. I don't think our categories would be useful for this; the only people who care about the services are the people in that sg, so the descriptions are all about what the base is supposed to be, because that's all that applies to people who visit it.

 

I have not really thought that bases really needed any sort of categorization.  Sure, descriptors are handy for the RP crowd, so they know where to find what, and the creators of the hub bases want people to use them, but I can almost promise that as soon as anyone starts making categories more formal, someone will come along and break the mold. It's really what base builders excel at, lol. And, honestly, our systems for keeping track of bases is hugely flawed, with large gaping holes, so any directory is at best a small representation of the bases that are actually out there. I do wish there was a more automated way to keep track of bases. So I guess my answer to your questions would be, if people let us know that they want a system of classification, well, we can work on one, but I'm not currently seeing a need. People list what they want, when they want, how they want, and unless we get some sort of tracking system that's automated, categories are going to be subjective, if they are listed at all.

 

Interesting points! I hope I answered  you satisfactorily. 🙂

 

-Dacy

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, Dacy said:

I hadn't considered the categories we came up with for the contest (THIS contest, there will be others and likely not the same categories at all!) to be in any way definitive for anything except the contest

 

... and that is all good and nothing wrong with that.

 

1 hour ago, Dacy said:

We simply were thinking of types of bases we've seen.

 

Understandably and you clearly defined the definitions for each category in this contest. 

 

1 hour ago, Dacy said:

Most people have utility bases

 

I'm assuming this is correct as well.

I build theme bases that mostly have obvious/easy access to teleports and utility contacts in the first room outside of the entrance room and then the other rooms based on that theme that may not be easily/obviously accessible from that teleport/utility-contact (leveling/enhancement/insp/crafting) room. Storage items are no more than cosmetics to visitors so I personally see no reason to put them front-and-center in a base.

I craft a supergroup like I build a character. A certain supergroup concept maybe the the start and then I build characters to populate the supergroup. I may have characters and then decide to build a supergroup and related base to support that theme.

But, now, I'm meandering because I'm tried .... sorry ...

 

1 hour ago, Dacy said:

An RP base is created to fulfill an RP desire or need. Maybe it's a house, apartment complex, a school, a mall, a park...or perhaps it's more complex and part of an ever growing story that changes according to the needs of the builder or group that is using it, but it has a STORY, and the story relates to the characters that use it. You can usually see evidence of the stories in the base.

 

Makes sense.

And I think you did a good job of defining them in the post I relied to. 

My post wasn't about my confusion with your definitions (which is about as clear as they can be ... all considering the level of freedom we have)

 

I am bit intrigued about how a base can show a story. I'm probably already doing it, but how others define this and/or "see" the story in a base is interesting to me.

 

1 hour ago, Dacy said:

I do wish there was a more automated way to keep track of bases.

 

The Supergroup Registry is very limited. It would be nice to expand this, but I'm sure that there are far more bases than there were on live due the lack of need for prestige to build bases.

I would be nice if there were some flags to click on the supergroup settings that would indicate; 1) category (with RP and Transport Hub/Utility checkboxes at least), 2) display passcode (on/off), ... ?

A Supergroup search could show you all the bases flagged as RP with the passcode (if activate);all the bases flagged as both RP and Transport Hub/Utility with the passcode (if activate); etc.

 

1 hour ago, Dacy said:

So I guess my answer to your questions would be, if people let us know that they want a system of classification, well, we can work on one, but I'm not currently seeing a need. People list what they want, when they want, how they want, and unless we get some sort of tracking system that's automated, categories are going to be subjective, if they are listed at all.

 

How many people would use it? I don't know.

So maybe it is just a thought experiment.

 

The end results seems to be the definitions are for contests only.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

1 hour ago, Dacy said:

Interesting points! I hope I answered  you satisfactorily. 🙂

 

You always do.

You put your thoughts and time into it.

I appreciate that.

 

[captainstar]

I think I got it right, but since english is not my mother language I hope I didn't make any mistake. 😅

[Sun]

And the conversation continues. On the item number thing, I’ll follow your clarification Dacy and Easter Bunny with a few questions then, with of course the awareness and respect this is your contest and your rules. So be it. (I originally thought to email you guys with this in private, but maybe better here for all to see). Alas it is long but I appreciate you reading through it, if you can.

 

To wit:

 

Does item count really indicate volume (size) or density (complexity) in any real reliable manner, thus granting guidance in planning a base visit or even a contest?

 

Could there be a perception here that a work of art's number of parts somehow indicate it's worthiness or even the amount of work required to create it? And if THAT is true (and I and any builder here could demonstrate throughout history that is certainly NOT the case), does even the amount of work required to bring a thing into being somehow bestow upon the observer it's value? I think not.

 

In the end, this is not Live (thank you Homecoming :)), whence plot and item were gated behind a pay wall, granting larger and more active SGs a clear and present advantage in this scenario. In those dark days your approach would have been not only appropriate, but absolutely necessary. Not so today, thanks to our brilliant developers. We all start in the same zone, with the same potential plot size on which, and the same toolkit and item palette down below with which to build. We are all given the same size block of rock from which to liberate our sculpture, the same size canvas on which to paint our vision, are we not? Kinda like the horse team that claims they were at a disadvantage in the SAME race they entered with others, entirely voluntarily.

 

What if I figured out how to accomplish the same exact thing as Brother Builder did, only more efficiently and with half the items? Does that mean his is bigger than mine just because he hasn’t figured it out yet? Meditate on this.

 

Is there any other way to select more winners and award more prizes?

 

I say finally, not only is item count entirely irrelevant, even to the builder him or herself , but including such a parameter in your entry may serve to spawn that which you have so honorably tried to prevent: prejudice. (One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it. - Master Oogway).

 

Now then, I'll leave you with one final vision:

 

Two players are engaged in a discussion, with a couple witnesses about, in AP:

 

Player 1: "Hey I see you won the Base Building Contest. Congratulations!"

Player 2: "Ahhh yes, Thank you. I see you won too! Congratulations to you too, and well done!"

"Thanks!"

"I won in X Category, UNDER Y number of items."

"Ahhh very interesting. I too won in X Category, only I won in... OVER Y number of items."

"Ahhh I see…"

Witness 1 to Witness 2, “Player 1’s is bigger than Player 2’s, let’s go look at his first.”

“Uh huh.”

 

I will leave it to you, Good Readers, to assess the outcome of such a discussion, and upon whom, in secret, the greater or lesser esteem is placed...

 

Monk of Indom

[EmperorSteele]

I think the piece count thing is to give smaller builders an even shot at winning. Because, let's be honest, even though "more" or "bigger" isn't always better, think about all the bases you've seen, either in screen caps, or having visited them. The bigger, more complicated bases are -usually- the visually more impressive ones. If there's a small base that you fondly recall in spite of that general trend, well, that's what makes that smaller base exceptional.

 

I mean, look at the Cosmic Council base on Excel, or the Black Friday club or RATS hideout on Everlasting, or Dacy's Haunted House... and then tell me that those can be improved by taking out half the pieces, or the builders having spent half the time making them. Sure, in some cases builders are just selecting max plot size and filling all the space with surperfulous details, but it should be easy for the judges to differentiate between everything being placed with purpose, and everything being thrown all over just to fill space.

 

 

[Dacy]

I’m having to do this from my phone, so this may be shorter than usual. 
 

It’s interesting how differently people can interpret things. Monk, you seem to feel that we are fostering bias, but I will tell you, the bias already exists. We made the dividing line to address it, not encourage it. Were you here for the last contest, Monk? There were no categories. There was some discussion that the larger, complex bases had an advantage, and even that maybe some won because the size was just impressive. 
 

I think I said this already, but the size categories are to remove any perceived advantage a larger base has. The winner’s titles will all be the same, because we don’t want to give the impression any type or size base is better than any other. The item count is, frankly, arbitrary. We needed a line, and settled on that. Yes, efficient building can and should reduce piece count. If you were to take a look at our rubric, you’d see that there is NOTHING in the judging relating to item count, but a heck of a lot of focus on what makes a good base technically, artistically and functionally. 
 

Another division being given less attention for some reason are the categories of utility, RP, and multipurpose. Now, we wanted the categories because there are serious skills involved with each type, but they can be different sorts of skills, and we want to value the person who is able to present base services attractively and logically at the same level as those who create huge works of imagination, at the same level as someone who creates a more intimate and focused work. All are worth honoring, and the categories and item count was our attempt to give the spotlight to a variety of builders.  Next contest will be different, and we will see what worked and what didn’t from this contest, and we will apply that knowledge to the next. 
 

Meanwhile, just know that we are definitely going to be judging on quality, and we hope that the rubric will help us keep things as objective as we can be on a very subjective topic. 
 

-Dacy (anything I missed I will address when I’m at my computer!)

[lemming]

Just glanced at some of the awesome entries.  Always inspiring.

 

And here I'm looking at my Tiny Secret Base with 187 items. 😄    (Very utilitarian)

[Dacy]

Remember, judging does not start until the entry closes after April 9th. Any and all bases entered (or not  yet entered) can be worked on up until that point. Use the rubric, go through your base and see what you can improve! There should still be time to put some polish on a base. And if not this contest, then for the next one! 🙂

 

-Dacy