Question: Quantumania

[Techwright]

Question:  Is Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania as bad as the bloodthirsty are saying it is?  It's a little hard to tell which trashers are taking delight in doomsaying and which are trying to give a genuine report.

 

Trying to decide if I should go to one of the few remaining, oddly-timed showings in my region or save my money and just wait many months until Disney+ puts it in their queue.  Mostly I'm interested in making certain that I'm not left behind on the main story arc of the MCU when whatever is next roles around.  Knowing that the next Big Bad was introduced in this movie has me wondering if I need to go see it. (And yeah, I'm aware a different version of him was in Loki.)

[Ghost]

I didn’t think it was anywhere near as bad as certain people say it is - definitely not Eternals or Thor Love & Thunder bad.

For me, the biggest issue I had was the CGI was distractingly bad in parts.  

As for needing to see it, I would say yes since Marvel seems to have gotten to the point that every movie ties in with something later on.  
Of course there’s nothing coming immediately, so you could get away with waiting for D+
 

[starro]

It was declared dead before arrival by the same people that call for marvel fatigue and the franchise dead after blah blah movie.  
 

it was dumb fun and a good diversion for a couple hours. 

[Techwright]

13 hours ago, Ghost said:

For me, the biggest issue I had was the CGI was distractingly bad in parts.  

As for needing to see it, I would say yes since Marvel seems to have gotten to the point that every movie ties in with something later on.  
Of course there’s nothing coming immediately, so you could get away with waiting for D+
 

Interesting.  I wonder if that bad CGI was produced by the same studio that was criticized (rightly so) for the flat look of Bruce Banner in the Hulkbuster outfit and other things during the two Infinity War movies.  My understanding is that Marvel put at least 2 CGI studios to work on those movies due to the massive number of special effects needed.

 

And as of this weekend, this may be something of a moot point, due to an arrest of actor Jonathan Majors.  Personally, I think the charges will be dropped.  The defense attorney has already stated some pretty solid evidence that Mr. Majors is not guilty of the charges, including two signed confessions by the accuser, but we'll see.  It does raise an interesting point, though:  When the MCU puts so much into one character: Thanos, now Kang, what do they do if the actor is suddenly unavailable due to any number of circumstances?  Recasting Kang sounds like it would be hard, but then, he is a multiversal character.  I suppose they could whack this Kang and have another, played by a different actor, take his place.

[Ghost]

I don’t think it’s the same FX studio - back then it appeared as if Marvel understood the importance of how the CGI looked. Was it perfect?  No, but it still looked great 99% of the time.

 

Ive seen a couple different stories lately about why the FX has gotten so bad.

First, there are reports that money/resources were pulled from Quantumanis in order to work on Wakanda Forever.  They thought that was a bigger and more important franchise, so they reallocated funds.

Second, and more fascinating is the firing of Victoria Alonso.  There had been stories over the last 2 years that FX Studios we’re not given enough time on projects, and being lowballed when it came to cost.  Victoria was in charge of this aspect of the movies. There are also now reports that she treated the FX Studios like garbage.  If they didn’t kiss up to her, they were removed and their work piled on other Studios already with a full workload. Don’t know how true this is, but it kinda goes along with the reports of being lowballed/overworked.

Will the CGI issues now be resolved?  I damn sure hope so, but that’s not the only issue the MCU is facing right now.

 

Too much content - and it’s really the same content.  I believe after Endgame, they should have done a press release stating the Avengers stories were done for now.  Forget about them and that universe.  “We are starting new” and then go on to build up the next team - XMen, Alpha Flight, FF, whomever.  Just move away from Avengers and that whole universe.  After 30 movies, I just don’t think the General Audience are excited to hear about another Avengers movie/project.  Give them something new to anticipate.

 

Bad Writing - I think they’ve gotten lazy due to the early success.  They got to the point of thinking the audience will but whatever they are selling because of the brand.  Now that the general audience isn’t, they don’t know how to fix what’s already been planned out.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Ghost

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Having not had a chance to catch Quantumania yet, what I'd noticed - even before this flick - is that in the urgency to set up a universe, they forget that each movie has to work as a unit, with a beginning, middle and ending, and plot and character development along the way. For example, Empire Strikes Back hits all of those notes, and ties all but the two key loose ends - Han and Luke - up when credits roll. Audience satisfied but wanting more. DS:MoM worked as a complete movie, introducing the Multiversal concepts, and only glued on the next chapter tag in post-creds. QM seems more of featherlight amuse-bouche for whatever they've got coming next, but clearly not enough bouches are amused.

 

VFX teams are unionising now - and without going full activiaaaaaAAAHHH

[thump]

...sorry, trashcan incident - that is a Good Thing. 80 hour weeks with executives hanging over your shoulder, demanding individual details be tweaked or rerun without budgeting either time or money for creative changes, do not good product or happy teams make. Particularly if said execs haven't quite settled the creative look of the flick with the director, and have a marketing deadline to meet where cash has already been spent.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Slight industry side note: Bob Iger has first sidelined and then abruptly terminated Marvel chairman Ike Perlmutter, who was, according to reports, trying to lead a palace coup against Kevin Feige. What also didn't endear Ike to Bob was using his shareholding to help an activist investor join the board (trust me, they can be trouble.)

 

The comics division Ike was relegated to will be folded into Disney Entertainment. One hopes they find a nerd who knows what they're doing with them.

Even if QM doesn't seem to have caught fire, Feige is still the golden boy and he has plans. I just wish he'd revise them a bit to make better flicks.

 

The bigger story (on the FT, but paywalled), is that Disney needs to find seven thousand job cuts to balance the box - around 3% of their worldwide workforce - plus spinning off Hulu and ESPN to hit their new, partly activist-induced business plan.

 

So QM underperforming at the box office - and potentially putting a question mark over the Multiverse franchise expansion - is now putting the almighty bottom line at risk and investors on guard. But to fix both problems, they need to take more risks, not less.

[Techwright]

4 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Slight industry side note: Bob Iger has first sidelined and then abruptly terminated Marvel chairman Ike Perlmutter, who was, according to reports, trying to lead a palace coup against Kevin Feige. What also didn't endear Ike to Bob was using his shareholding to help an activist investor join the board (trust me, they can be trouble.)

 

The comics division Ike was relegated to will be folded into Disney Entertainment. One hopes they find a nerd who knows what they're doing with them.

Even if QM doesn't seem to have caught fire, Feige is still the golden boy and he has plans. I just wish he'd revise them a bit to make better flicks.

 

The bigger story (on the FT, but paywalled), is that Disney needs to find seven thousand job cuts to balance the box - around 3% of their worldwide workforce - plus spinning off Hulu and ESPN to hit their new, partly activist-induced business plan.

 

So QM underperforming at the box office - and potentially putting a question mark over the Multiverse franchise expansion - is now putting the almighty bottom line at risk and investors on guard. But to fix both problems, they need to take more risks, not less.

 

They're still largely unrecovered from the COVID years.  A couple of friends and I used to hold Disney jobs back a little after Walt started drawing Oswald the Rabbit (okay maybe a bit closer in time than that) and together watched the hits that just kept rolling in from the closures to entertainment venues and store, and the increased expenses to keep movies and TV shows on schedule.

 

I do think they're under-utilizing some well-known properties they own.  The Muppets, with the exception of some free YouTube videos they posted a few years back, have largely had lackluster showings for years.  (Just to clarify, Disney since 2004 owns the rights to the Muppets, permits those that overlap to work with Sesame Street, but the rest of Henson's creations remain with the Jim Henson Company. At least, that's how it was explained to me.) What activity I've seen from Muppet talent is in support of other Disney properties, such as The Mandalorian.  Those who know me best, know that I have a huge soft spot in my heart for the Muppets, so I don't make the critique lightly.

 

Until the film appearing this year, the Indiana Jones franchise has been largely silent as well.   Both of these properties could benefit from some really solid expansion materials, such as games.  Indiana Jones in particular.  I'm very surprised they've never come out with a string of well-written, great games in the Tomb Raider or Uncharted style.  I'd go for a reboot, this time fully canon not soft canon, of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles to show up on Disney+.  Find a great young actor, and grow him into the next Professor Jones. .  Or perhaps do it in an animation style reminiscent of Star Wars: The Clone Wars (season 7). 

 

Also, last I knew (which admittedly is a long time back) Disney owned the movie rights to all the Oz stories of L. Frank Baum with the exception of The Wizard of Oz.  It's how the remarkable Return to Oz was made back in the 1980s, which is a fusion of books 3 and 4 (with new material as well).  I've always wondered why they didn't make the series on the heels of the Harry Potter movies.  If you read the Oz books, they're actually quite dark and scary at times, not the oft-sunny look of the musical movie, which should fit the Harry Potter fans.

 

The point is, there's a lot of untapped potential, so I agree on taking more risks.

[InvaderStych]

On 4/1/2023 at 6:02 PM, Techwright said:

Those who know me best, know that I have a huge soft spot in my heart for the Muppets, so I don't make the critique lightly.

 

The world needs Statler and Waldorf now more than ever.

[Techwright]

9 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

The world needs Statler and Waldorf now more than ever.

 

And the Box-Seat Boys will answer the call.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

More Muppet content, you say?

Funny you should mention that…

…Spinal Tap for kids? 

[SeraphimKensai]

On 4/1/2023 at 9:02 PM, Techwright said:

Also, last I knew (which admittedly is a long time back) Disney owned the movie rights to all the Oz stories of L. Frank Baum with the exception of The Wizard of Oz.  It's how the remarkable Return to Oz was made back in the 1980s, which is a fusion of books 3 and 4 (with new material as well).  I've always wondered why they didn't make the series on the heels of the Harry Potter movies.  If you read the Oz books, they're actually quite dark and scary at times, not the oft-sunny look of the musical movie, which should fit the Harry Potter fans.

My daughter just finished book 8 of L. Frank Baum's Oz books, she loves them. I could see film adaptations working, but it would be hard to break away from the Wizard of Oz mold successfully given the majority of the population hasn't even read any of the books.

[Techwright]

10 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

More Muppet content, you say?

Funny you should mention that…

…Spinal Tap for kids? 

I had...no idea... this could be interesting. The cameos alone will be crazy.  The Muppets are one of those productions that everyone wants in on the act, even for a cameo.

 

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

My daughter just finished book 8 of L. Frank Baum's Oz books, she loves them. I could see film adaptations working, but it would be hard to break away from the Wizard of Oz mold successfully given the majority of the population hasn't even read any of the books.

 

Baum wrote 13 of the books, I think it was?  I was about 11 when I binge-read them.  That said, he authorized at least one other to write more books, and his estate authorized others.  I've read a few of those other authors' works and those that I read were just as good as the originals.  Your daughter might have much to read for a while.

 

As to the comment about the majority of the population not having read them: it was true for the Lord of the Rings as well, and just the first movie generated 20 million book sales, not even counting sales of The Hobbit, the Silmarillion, and Tolkien's other works.  To that point, if you even knew the subject matter, you had an oddly drawn Rankin-Baskin animation for The Hobbit, and an even odder oddly filmed, rotoscoped, and animated Ralph Bakshi film of the first book only.  The former returned and did a greatly trundicated Return of the King in animated form.  It was less than an hour as I remember.  Crazy.  The point is, they found a way to communicate to the audience, and the audience got onboard.

 

I've wondered if the big problem would be in connecting the young of high-tech today, with stories and Kansas characters set 120 years ago.

[Mr. Vee]

Welp i just watched it. I guess there's some info-dump if you're not already familiar with Kang but if you are it's pretty painful to get through. It's at least visually nice, but you prolly got that from the trailer.

[Judasace]

Regardless of subjective opinion, it was the "most important movie since Endgame" according to Feige, and it bombed hard, had mixed reviews at best, and the actor of the BBEG that it was setting up is getting his whole career cancelled. So you may like it as a film, or you may not, but it's pretty clear Marvel is going to have to do some retooling and probably some kind of soft relaunch of their next phase.

[Techwright]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:24 AM, Judasace said:

 So you may like it as a film, or you may not, but it's pretty clear Marvel is going to have to do some retooling and probably some kind of soft relaunch of their next phase.

 

Yes, if it bombed so hard, especially after so much expectation, a "retooling" has got to be in order.  I think it likely that the Fantastic Four may be reintroduced to the movies during the Kang era, as Kang is tied to them in the comics. After 1 wobbly showing, and 2 disastrous creations, Marvel really needs to get them right this time, spurring on whatever "retooling" is needed.

 

As to Majors and whatever role he may or may not take in this, the next phase of it may manifest on, or close to, May 8, just 3 days from this post, when he has his court appearance.  Quite possible one in a set of court events, but it may give Marvel some better idea of whether he has a legitimate defense or not.   I appreciate that Marvel has not fired him yet, like so many others have.  While it is most likely a self-serving decision by Marvel, it underscores the too often forgotten ideal that one may be accused but is to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Techwright
Grammar correction

[MyriVerse]

Enjoyed Quantumania and really think the dynamic is what an MCU Fantastic Four should be like. The movie seemed more like a Janet Van Dyne story than Scott Lang story, tbh, although he was part of it too. So much of the main plot revolves around her.

Edited May 21, 2023 by MyriVerse

[BrandX]

I enjoyed Quantumania.  I enjoyed the other Ant-Man movies.  However, it should be noted, it's not like Ant-Man movies were the biggest box office draws and now, people like to say "If it doesn't make a billion it's bad"

Also, I'm not sure it was originally planned to be the way it ended up being.  However, at the same time, I'm not sure I wanted it to end like a few of the past Ant-Man movies.  Seeing as I don't want to spoil the movie, I'll leave it at that.

 

I'm sure there are other factors into why people say it's bad, and yes, it likely could've been better, but I feel lots of people want to bad mouth Marvel, Disney and just expect everything to be Endgame level now.

 

And imo it was better than Love & Thunder and Wakanda Forver.

Edited May 22, 2023 by BrandX

[Techwright]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

... and now, people like to say "If it doesn't make a billion it's bad"
 

 

Those who say that are forgetting that the COVID years did lasting damage to the box office.  I'd consider anything over $250 million to be doing very well.  

[BrandX]

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

 

Those who say that are forgetting that the COVID years did lasting damage to the box office.  I'd consider anything over $250 million to be doing very well.  

 

I agree.  Just because a movie does awesome now, doesn't mean covid isn't having repercussions still.  It made people willing to wait for streaming for one.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

15 hours ago, BrandX said:

It made people willing to wait for streaming for one

Truth. D&D:HAT was the first flick I'd seen in a cinema since before The Dark Times, and the only reason I went is that opening weekend, UK word of mouth hadn't kicked in yet - so a Saturday showing was near empty. Not getting the 'vid again was a big deterrent for me. That and the diet. Mmmm, raisinettes or Ben & Jerry's? 

 

With delay times now much shorter than before, I didn't have the sense of urgency about seeing something first. I am still going to be seeing Dune Part II on the biggest screen I can, though, even if I have to build my own damn stillsuit to do it.

Edited May 23, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[BrandX]

39 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Truth. D&D:HAT was the first flick I'd seen in a cinema since before The Dark Times, and the only reason I went is that opening weekend, UK word of mouth hadn't kicked in yet - so a Saturday showing was near empty. Not getting the 'vid again was a big deterrent for me. That and the diet. Mmmm, raisinettes or Ben & Jerry's? 

 

With delay times now much shorter than before, I didn't have the sense of urgency about seeing something first. I am still going to be seeing Dune Part II on the biggest screen I can, though, even if I have to build my own damn stillsuit to do it.

 

Can't say I'm the same.  Love going to the theaters.  Since nothing was being released, when my theater did open during Covid, they showed old movies.  Jumped at the chance to see Raiders of the Lost Arc on the big screen!

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

7 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Jumped at the chance to see Raiders of the Lost Arc on the big screen!

Sounds like fun, but ours were closed closed. (If one of my local flick palaces had put on a midnight showing of Alien, I might have been tempted. If you ever REALLY need seven shades of sriracha scared out of you, watching Alien, late night, in a near-empty theatre, with just the hiss of the air conditioning and things lurking in the shadows... that'll work.)

[Techwright]

42 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 things lurking in the shadows... 

Look, the clean-up guy might be lurking, but he's probably just wanting to watch the show quietly, too, ya know?

 

I went and saw, uh, something, back in late 2021 or early 2022.  Clearly it made a lasting impression on me.  (EDIT: no, wait.  It was Spider-Man: No Way Home. I did like that one.) In the second largest theater in our area, there was 1 worker handling both tickets and snack vending, and possibly 5 visitors for the entire 16 screens.  Anything even turning a profit at that time was considered successful.

[Glacier Peak]

There is so much CG that I was honestly unable to get in to the movie. I don't think there was a physical set in the entire thing and the camera work did not make up for that in my opinion. Other than that distraction, I thought it was a sub standard Marvel flick, I'd rate somewhere between Ironman 3 and Dark whatever Thor movie.