Focused Feedback: Storm Blast

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, ScarySai said:

This is technically not a problem. Jet stream only knocks things that are in storm cell by design, so when you remove the repel for whatever reason, there's nothing to convert to a knockdown.

 

I wouldn't bet on it changing, either way. I bet the deadline is soon.

I was saying that without storm cell, jet stream is either too much a hinderence due to the repel, or there is zero knockdown with a kb-kd and thus the set is extra terrible mechanically and offers zero else to help when storm cell is down.

 

It's pointing out how crucial it is to have storm cell up all the time when and where you need it.

[WindDemon21]

4 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

If the fabled aprocalypse of legend ever happens, Storm's AOE isn't really that bad.

 

The main issue is just that the set doesn't have a really good, proccable AoE. It still holds up well with that in mind.

Just what I said up above, it's not even about procs, it's about mitigation and survival. Without storm cell, and then not having the knockdown on jet stream, the set is very anemic.

 

Edit: it's about the Ughh waiting for storm cell to catch up cause it's not worth engaging without it, and really hinders the fun factor constantly being annoyed by it

 

Maybe in case jet stream is odd to code, then like I said page's back, not only does it make sense, but perhaps simply add knockdown to chain lightning.

Edited April 13, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[biostem]

So after doing a bunch of testing w/ a storm/ninjitsu sentinel on the Beta server, here are my thoughst:

 

I'm comparing the performance to a similar sentinel I have on live, only they're dark/sr instead.  The damage with storm feels a bit lower than dark.  I was fighting 54 Rikti in the RWZ, so perhaps they naturally resist the smashing/cold/energy a lot more than the negative energy of dark blast.  I love love love lightning strike - it just feels very powerful.  Coudburst, even though it's a higher-tier power, seems weaker, in contrast.  Maybe this is because it's a DoT vs the upfront damage of lightning strike, but I feel it could benefit from a defense or resistance debuff.  When hailstones procs the "big stone", it is quite entertaining.  Storm cell, being a key power to the set, could really use a more obvious graphical effect signifying where it is actually affecting.  Since I'm cycling through my entire attack chain, pretty much as quickly as possible, most enemies don't live long enough for me to take advantage of Category Five's fully ramped-up effect, which feels like a waste, and the delay between tossing up the ball of lighting for chain lightning, and it's subsequent effect, feels like some wasted time as well.  Jetstream's repel effect, when outside of a storm cell, actually isn't too bad, though with the sentinel's shorter range, can knock enemies out of range.  Can anyone clarify what is meant by "increase your storm strength" from the text of Intensify?  Anyway, it's a fun set, and I will definitely give it a try once it goes live.  Cheers!

Edited April 14, 2023 by biostem

[MirrorDarkly]

2 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Nitpicky request: Is it possible to adjust the VFX of Storm Cell and Cat 5 so that the primary color applies only to the rain/wind effects while the secondary color applies only to the lightning strike?

 

I second this. I would love to be able to set the color of the storm and lightning separately.

[Glacier Peak]

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

Can anyone clarify what is meant by "increase your storm strength" from the text of Intensify?  Anyway, it's a fun set, and I will definitely give it a try once it goes live.  Cheers!

Bops said: 

 

"It increases your proc chances by 20 percentage points for 10s. So in the image above, The 70% chance for High Winds becomes 90%, the 60% chance of Lightning becomes 80%."

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Glacier Peak

[ScarySai]

Storm/storm is probably going to be really funny on the 4* hero-1 fight.

Edited April 14, 2023 by ScarySai

[Isulkian]

Just my 2 cents to the Jet Stream issue.

 the power feels really aukward to use. I d really love to see it transform into a "Cyclone effect". It d be more usefull to have it push mobs towards the storm cell (or yourself if storm cell is not cast), something like a tornado with a big gust of wind inward. And the cyclone effect would be transform in knock up if inside the storm cell).

Does anyone like the idea or is it irrelevant?

[biostem]

28 minutes ago, Isulkian said:

Just my 2 cents to the Jet Stream issue.

 the power feels really aukward to use. I d really love to see it transform into a "Cyclone effect". It d be more usefull to have it push mobs towards the storm cell (or yourself if storm cell is not cast), something like a tornado with a big gust of wind inward. And the cyclone effect would be transform in knock up if inside the storm cell).

Does anyone like the idea or is it irrelevant?

I think the power would have to be renamed if it was turned into a mini tornado-type power that drew enemies in.  That being said, (and depending upon your AT, secondary, and APP/PPP), there are ways to mitigate the repel and/or keep enemies within your storm cell.  I also think having what you described as a rank 3 power would be too good...

[ScarySai]

Cool idea, but unreasonable at this stage. I'd stick to minor changes.

 

[biostem]

So I did a little more testing, this time on both a different build on that sb/nin sentinel and a sb/dev blaster.  The 2nd build on the sentinel omitted cloudburst, and after fighting a few largish groups, the missing DPS was noticeable.  I guess because it is a DoT, it's not quite as readily obvious.  In playing this 2nd build, I did find myself using jet stream a lot less for some reason, relying instead on chain lighting more often.

 

For the blaster, the set had a different feel, as the Rikti I was testing against threw around a lot of mez effects, so I had to rely more on picking off individual enemies more often, though once I was able to get my AoEs off, they melted rather quickly.  One downside I noticed is that the enemies tended to scatter a lot more on the blaster.  As blasters are a less-played AT for me, I can't say if this scattering is blaster-specific, or a result of something storm cell or category five are doing, (or some other storm blast power)...

 

All in all, I think gust, hailstones, and direct strike/lightning strike are the real standouts of the set.  Chain lightning has a nice visual, but isn't as reliable when it comes to targeting which enemies get hit, and it's just a bit annoying to try and get enemies within your storm cell/know which enemies are in its AoE, to reliably get the KD from jet stream.  Cloudburst, after some testing, does provide a significant amount of damage, (albeit over time), but I frankly couldn't care less about its secondary effects while an enemy is in the storm cell.  I just wish storm cell had some more "oomph".  It feels more like a set mechanic than a fun power you'd want to use in its own right.  Now that I understand the special effect from intensify, it is something I look forward to triggering before using the other powers.

 

Other thoughts:

Would it be too good to give storm cell an immobilize or strong slow effect?  It needs a bolder/clearer visual, either way.

 

[ScarySai]

I love the direction of the new chain lightning animation way more than the ball.

 

The initial bolts and the chain damage look really wimpy, though. Something about the ball added some 'weight' to the power that doesn't really exist anymore when fighting large groups. 

 

Suggestion: Thicken the bolts or whatever other means you have to make the chain bolts more noticeable in a large fight.

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[TygerDarkstorm]

16 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

So I played a bit more last night, level 40-41 with only common IOs for an average play experience, Storm/Storm Controller.

A what now? 😛

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[WindDemon21]

20 hours ago, ScarySai said:

This is technically not a problem. Jet stream only knocks things that are in storm cell by design, so when you remove the repel for whatever reason, there's nothing to convert to a knockdown.

 

I wouldn't bet on it changing, either way. I bet the deadline is soon.

It does both, there are two separate flags at least per the details, and i've seen it do both repel, and knock separately, though odd that according to the details as well, they both list there without a % chance, meaning they should both be 100% chance. Though logging in just now to double check, they did add the "if in storm cell". Which again then, if this is how jet stream is going to work, then they need to fix storm cell's base recharge (with no other nerf to like 45s besides lowering the cast time and end costs), or they need to fix jet stream to be usable outside of storm cell and still provide mitigation, ie full knockback outside of storm cell too, and thus converting that to KD when using a kb-kd.

 

Additionally as mentioned before, chain lighting also makes complete sense to have knockdown on itself as well for some mitigation when inevitably storm cell isn't up or isn't getting to the next mob fast enough.

 

But again, all these issues go away if they'd just stop being stubborn and lower the recharge to 30 or 45 seconds.

 

I also don't get the "I bet the deadline is soon" it's not like there is a board of directors or anything that make money off the game that DEMAND a deadline. This is all player run and controlled right? So nothing that says they can't fix this first before it goes live and push the release date back a week. (or make it live now to play with, but fix it in a patch the following week)

 

But you can be sure this issue is going to persist if they don't fix it. Whether you're the stormy dealing with it meaning you basically literally can't use jet stream outside of storm cell (cause at current, its not worth the kb-kd since you get nothing out of it for mitigation, and just makes the slot tax even worse to put a kb-kd in it and then still not have it even KD), or one is on your team messing up the mobs causing aggravation.

 

It's one thing if the power itself is usable enough that someone should be using it properly to prevent that, it's a whole other thing when it's happening because storm cell isn't up fast enough, or it's not getting to the next mob fast enough, all which are within the control of the devs right now to simply fix and not CREATE issues like this.

 

As to someone else mentioning about changing jet stream to be like a whirlwind, I would probably just die if they added the pull-in like sing has to storm cell then to also fix the issue, if not at least to the nuke. But a commandable power like axe cyclone (could be target based, but also have a cone that repels from your body like jet stream does, and like the [fault] damage cone does but also has a taoe component, or new cold snap having 2 cones etc), would also be super awesome and help solve these issues as well. (And on that note, i've been wanting tornado/water spout to have that sing pull-in since before even the sing had it, and makes complete sense that it should, hopefully those powers and the pull in on one of the storm blast powers could happen, but DEFINITELY should be in tornado and probably water spout too, it makes complete sense the way the cyclones work)

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Captain Fabulous said:

the perceived unreliability of Chain Lightning to hit multiple critters can sometimes be frustrating. It's the only AoE in the set

 

Were Jet Stream and Category Five removed?

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[WindDemon21]

26 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Were Jet Stream and Category Five removed?

I think they meant reliable aoe, nuke recharges too long obviously, and jet stream, well, has those issues i mentioned when storm cell isn't up.

 

I do notice the chaining to be kinda weird, especially when the mobs move after you cast it since it takes some time for it to actually hit. I wouldn't mind it just being a regular targeted skill, but i think a faster cast/hit would solve most of that too.

[MirrorDarkly]

3 hours ago, ScarySai said:

I love the direction of the new chain lightning animation way more than the ball.

 

The initial bolts and the chain damage look really wimpy, though. Something about the ball added some 'weight' to the power that doesn't really exist anymore when fighting large groups. 

 

Suggestion: Thicken the bolts or whatever other means you have to make the chain bolts more noticeable in a large fight.

 

I second this. If possible I'd love for the bolts cary more weight, maybe make them larger? Also consider making the thunder a little stronger so it sounds more like direct strike. 

 

Also I can see storm cell much more easily now!

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

Were Jet Stream and Category Five removed?

They probably differentiate "AoE" from cones and longish T9s...

[ScarySai]

Storm's pretty great for the situations you can set up for, and still fine when it has to play catch-up.

 

Seeing the same people harp on it not being the next fire blast isn't productive feedback.

[WindDemon21]

8 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Storm's pretty great for the situations you can set up for, and still fine when it has to play catch-up.

 

Seeing the same people harp on it not being the next fire blast isn't productive feedback.

As an fyi, i've never once complained about it's damage, only it's mechanics with storm cell recharging so long/slow follow, and the jet stream knock/repel without storm cell.

 

The only thing damage related i mentioned was having more of the damage on the nuke up front, but I'm fine with how it is given the other issues are fixed.

[@Ghost]

The new Storm Cell visuals are much more helpful! Very appreciated.

 

It also makes good fodder for a point I had a hard time illustrating before re:AI, pathing, duration and speed.

 

 

Trying to get the thing to switch targets often feels a struggle and this was the best way I could clearly show off the type of stuff I noticed in missions before and after the patch. 25s from the time an attack lands on a new target to fully move, and you can see it sort of struggling and idling in the hallway before it fully commits to the new target I've been attacking. It's very similar to typical mission behavior where a minion might get left behind, and it seems to anchor on top of that and refuses to move. Even then, it moves fairly slowly.

 

I did a similar test, summoning Storm Cell at the back of the Vanguard base and flying full speed to the target dummy and attacking. Similarly, it took around 25s or so for it to fully catch up with me even without it being in combat first.

 

 

Moving between spawns/combats and traveling with it seems to be the whole purpose of the 60s pseudopet nature, but it doesn't feel good at doing that. I can't claim to understand how CoH's AI behavior works or if upping its move speed would help at all, but I think it contributes to a lot of pain points with having to redrop it just to fight the pathing.

[Luminara]

24 minutes ago, @Ghost said:

The new Storm Cell visuals are much more helpful! Very appreciated.

 

It also makes good fodder for a point I had a hard time illustrating before re:AI, pathing, duration and speed.

 

 

Wow, that is slow.  It took 30 seconds to move 250' (measured the distance using /loc thumbtacks).  Account for five seconds to drop aggro and start following, it's moving at less than 7 mph.  Giving it 10 seconds to drop aggro and start following, 8.5 mph.

 

Base run speed for all characters, without Swift, is 14.32 mph.  With Swift, which is granted at level 1 now, 19.33 mph.  Storm Cell moves at less than half the speed of a level 1 character, at best?

 

That's fucked up.  Someone glue an ass on that thing and kick it.