Focused Feedback: Storm Blast

[Dispari]

It sounds like sticking to a rigid "concept" for the set has been holding it back this whole time. Things like slowly ramping up or the direction things are moved being "out of theme" keep the set from being able to perform as well as it could. This is a video game first and foremost; the set should be good and fun to play ahead of it being "realistic." As people pointed out it's also not realistic for axes to vacuum people toward the wielder, for fire to form a physical sword that can stab people, or for an archer to be able to shoot 40 arrows into the air in one go, but those things are fun. Nobody's here for a scientifically accurate depiction of a storm cloud.

One of the major limiting factors of the set since day one has been that it's highly reliant on enemies staying in the patches you create, which is why people want them up more often and for it to be more reliable to keep enemies in them. But all suggestions to address that are shot down so as to make feedback feel pointless, usually with the response of "we have a vision and that's not it."

At least we finally got a reduction to the recharge time of Storm Cell.

[Isulkian]

13 minutes ago, Dispari said:

It sounds like sticking to a rigid "concept" for the set has been holding it back this whole time. Things like slowly ramping up or the direction things are moved being "out of theme" keep the set from being able to perform as well as it could. This is a video game first and foremost; the set should be good and fun to play ahead of it being "realistic." As people pointed out it's also not realistic for axes to vacuum people toward the wielder, for fire to form a physical sword that can stab people, or for an archer to be able to shoot 40 arrows into the air in one go, but those things are fun. Nobody's here for a scientifically accurate depiction of a storm cloud.

One of the major limiting factors of the set since day one has been that it's highly reliant on enemies staying in the patches you create, which is why people want them up more often and for it to be more reliable to keep enemies in them. But all suggestions to address that are shot down so as to make feedback feel pointless, usually with the response of "we have a vision and that's not it."

At least we finally got a reduction to the recharge time of Storm Cell.

can t agree more. 

Many thing could be done to make thisset better. Many people suggest really good stuff to make it really fun to play.

All is missing is the willingness to do it......

Sorry to be honest and blunt

[Booper]

4 hours ago, Isulkian said:

system of winds rotating inwards to an area of low barometric pressure, with an anticlockwise (northern hemisphere) or clockwise (southern hemisphere) circulation; a depression.

another term for tropical storm.

I'll see if I can play with it some more to find that feel. The challenge is getting a repel that moves in a spiral around the center. As you probably know, we can do a vector repel, but the duration set for the repel will have the foe move along that initial line, not rotate around.

 

I had played with an idea of using short duration repels with a high update rate from the pseudopet, which allowed for the movement to somewhat travel in a circular direction, however it was very choppy and didn't pass our quality of standards.

 

That's where I had to settle for the vectored knock. I set it to an angle that had the foe get knocked toward the center and also perpindicular to the center. I believe it's set to 60 degrees yaw, but I'd have to confirm that number later.

 

I'm open to revisiting the repel, but it would have to look right while staying thematic. There would have to be a rotational (spiral-like) component and it would need to not look cheap. Again, I'll think of some ideas. Maybe I'll have a eureka moment after having stepped away from the initial attempts for so long. If folks have their own ideas, feel free to pitch the mechanics they think might work for the inward-spiraling look.

 

In the mean time, I could use more testing feedback on the playability of the set after last round of changes. Storm Cell in particular. Now has a 60s cooldown and the perception was reduced in hopes of less chasing after wrong enemies.

[WindDemon21]

21 minutes ago, Booper said:

I'll see if I can play with it some more to find that feel. The challenge is getting a repel that moves in a spiral around the center. As you probably know, we can do a vector repel, but the duration set for the repel will have the foe move along that initial line, not rotate around.

 

I had played with an idea of using short duration repels with a high update rate from the pseudopet, which allowed for the movement to somewhat travel in a circular direction, however it was very choppy and didn't pass our quality of standards.

 

That's where I had to settle for the vectored knock. I set it to an angle that had the foe get knocked toward the center and also perpindicular to the center. I believe it's set to 60 degrees yaw, but I'd have to confirm that number later.

 

I'm open to revisiting the repel, but it would have to look right while staying thematic. There would have to be a rotational (spiral-like) component and it would need to not look cheap. Again, I'll think of some ideas. Maybe I'll have a eureka moment after having stepped away from the initial attempts for so long. If folks have their own ideas, feel free to pitch the mechanics they think might work for the inward-spiraling look.

 

In the mean time, I could use more testing feedback on the playability of the set after last round of changes. Storm Cell in particular. Now has a 60s cooldown and the perception was reduced in hopes of less chasing after wrong enemies.

It's worth noting if it helps you figure how to do it, based on my observations with the singularity, when enemies are in the duration of being knocked down or back, the pull in does not seem to work until they are standing on their feet again.

 

So if you left the knock how it is, and just added the pull-in it would kind of do what you're trying to achieve on its own IIRC.

 

Edit: and again once more the acc on Cell and c5 should be about 1.4x base per reasons above, end cost reduced on cell, and the set IO issue needs fixed on both even if that's just adding the 1% of the other procs for now. Those are the current main issues.

 

Also the visibility issue on storm cell/c5. Maybe the "ring" around at least c5 could be floating debris like how singularity collects leaves.

Edited April 21, 2023 by WindDemon21

[Isulkian]

I ve been testing storm cell just a little bit with new settings. Recharge now seems fine imo, but end cost too high.

I ll have to retest it later (have to go downtown), but storm cell stay agroed on dead mobs. I killed some mob on the street, moving rom group to group, and storm cell refused to leave the dead mob corpse while i was engaging the next group. (thx to reduce recharge i was able to recast but i don t think it s suppose to work like that). if someone else can look into that (my internet connection is crappy lately so maybe it s just a bad lagg)

 

Thx for having a look on the repel/push/cyclone

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, Isulkian said:

I ve been testing storm cell just a little bit with new settings. Recharge now seems fine imo, but end cost too high.

I ll have to retest it later (have to go downtown), but storm cell stay agroed on dead mobs. I killed some mob on the street, moving rom group to group, and storm cell refused to leave the dead mob corpse while i was engaging the next group. (thx to reduce recharge i was able to recast but i don t think it s suppose to work like that). if someone else can look into that (my internet connection is crappy lately so maybe it s just a bad lagg)

 

Thx for having a look on the repel/push/cyclone

I thought this too so upped the graphics and saw that it did move but it was SOOOOOOOOO slow that it pretty much doesn't move. Like it moves at slower than the rate of NPCs walking around in talos..

[Booper]

2 minutes ago, Isulkian said:

I ve been testing storm cell just a little bit with new settings. Recharge now seems fine imo, but end cost too high.

I ll have to retest it later (have to go downtown), but storm cell stay agroed on dead mobs. I killed some mob on the street, moving rom group to group, and storm cell refused to leave the dead mob corpse while i was engaging the next group. (thx to reduce recharge i was able to recast but i don t think it s suppose to work like that). if someone else can look into that (my internet connection is crappy lately so maybe it s just a bad lagg)

 

Thx for having a look on the repel/push/cyclone

Thanks for the SC feedback. It is my hope that if there are no alive foes to observe, the cell would try to find you. I'd like more testing on this, just to confirm the causes of this behavior.

[Booper]

2 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

I thought this too so upped the graphics and saw that it did move but it was SOOOOOOOOO slow that it pretty much doesn't move. Like it moves at slower than the rate of NPCs walking around in talos..

That could be it too. It might just be too slow in moving. In which case, it's a give and take. Move too fast, cell may go somewhere the player did not intend. Having the cooldown greatly reduced does give an option to recast if needed, while the slow movement is there for flavor. It was mentioned before, treat the storm cell as if it were an immobile pseudopet while knowing it can drift around trying to follow foes or yourself. 

 

Also, your accuracy feedback is noted. Please stop repeating it in every post. I have limited time to catch up on feedback, and being spammed with repeated information means I have less time to read others' feedback.

[Gobbledigook]

Maybe you could add a Wicked Witch in the tornado that throws fireballs?

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Gobbledigook

[MirrorDarkly]

At the higher levels I'm having no problem with Storm Cells recast.

 

The overall end usage of the set does feel a little high. Even on characters with slotted sustains like blasters and sentinels I can run dry quickly unless I really build for mitigating it or slow down my power usage.

 

Perhapse consider adding a chance of End return to the lightning attacks when used on a target in the Storm Cell or reducing the cost of Storm Cell? 

[WindDemon21]

4 minutes ago, MirrorDarkly said:

At the higher levels I'm having no problem with Storm Cells recast.

 

The overall end usage of the set does feel a little high. Even on characters with slotted sustains like blasters and sentinels I can run dry quickly unless I really build for mitigating it or slow down my power usage.

 

Perhapse consider adding a chance of End return to the lightning attacks when used on a target in the Storm Cell or reducing the cost of Storm Cell? 

This sounds like a coding nightmare, but how cool would it be of the lightning strikes of the storm cell and cat5 had some end go back to it and hold it like it getting charged up, and when you went into the storm cell that would transfer to you?

 

Or It could even make it disperse end around the shocked targets kind of like how static field does when it procs, that coding already exists. Not that I think it's needed versus reducing end on cell/etc but it definitely would be cool lol. Just brainSTORMING lol.

[Frosticus]

24 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Good to know that the 4 people who have endlessly complained and dominated nearly this entire thread with negativity now control the fate of this set while the 20+ others of us with dozens of collective hours of testing have all been summarily dismissed.

On the other hand, from the get go of this feedback thread it was bombarded by a group of players proclaiming that it was a done deal and everything was resolved in the closed beta.

 

That group obviously didn't test Storm Cell/Cat5 in much depth as the issues, weaknesses and bugs present in the power are prominent enough that a few castings of it indicated to me that it needs much deeper analysis. 

 

I've got a lot on the burner IRL right now, so I haven't even looked at Cat 5, but I'm hopeful that everything present and being looked at in Storm Cell gets transferred over where applicable.  

[Frosticus]

RE Accuracy:

they are definitely aware of the issues, but in all fairness it isn't as easy as just giving it a huge base acc bonus because that is problematic in and of itself.

 

Its a level 6 power that can put out some pretty huge damage numbers, moves with you (albeit slowly) and is now perma out of the box (or with some recharge slotting previously).

But it isn't the damage that is problematic at low levels imo, Storm Cell actually has some pretty potent debuffs and soft control.

 

The 16 target aoe tohit debuff is as strong as darkest night when you add the auto hit Tempest portion to the High Winds debuff. It is arguably quite a bit better than dark blast in that regard. It can add a lot of early game survivability that is otherwise difficult to acquire from your attack set. It can also make Sentinels very robust in the early game as well (although the debuff is only 10 targets for them of course).

 

So while greatly boosted base acc is likely warranted for late game, it probably swings the pendulum too far in the early game.

 

Power Order Swap

If it were me I'd probably swap the power order of the set. As much as I'd like to have Storm Cell in the early game I'd move Cloudburst to lvl 6* (tier 4) and Storm Cell to lvl 22** (tier 8). That would remove some of the overarching issues present with potentially overpowering Storm Cell.

 

*Energy, Archery, and Seismic to name a few, all have their heavy blast at lvl 6

**Electric has voltaic sentinel at lvl 22 and Storm Cell is  like that power, but on steroids + crack.

 

 

[Beldath]

3 hours ago, Booper said:

I'm open to revisiting the repel, but it would have to look right while staying thematic. There would have to be a rotational (spiral-like) component and it would need to not look cheap. Again, I'll think of some ideas. Maybe I'll have a eureka moment after having stepped away from the initial attempts for so long. If folks have their own ideas, feel free to pitch the mechanics they think might work for the inward-spiraling look.

 

In the mean time, I could use more testing feedback on the playability of the set after last round of changes. Storm Cell in particular. Now has a 60s cooldown and the perception was reduced in hopes of less chasing after wrong enemies.

You really don't want that, getting something realistic is neat, but I don't want to have to reload my Dual Pistols or my Assault Rifle every few shots, or have realistic drawing times for my Bow and Arrow skills. Nor do I think the game could balance or animate an axe moving several times faster than the sound barrier to create a whirlwind, or near light speed to heat the air enough to make a plasma wave. Don't even get me started on the science behind the elemental blast sets and how impossible each one is. Hurricane does not make enemies revolve around you, Axe Cyclone does not make moves revolve around you. Tornado, Psi Tornado, and Waterspout do not make things revolve around them. Not only is it hard to program, but it would also be annoying to have them spiral around, especially for melee players. There is a willing suspense of disbelief for things like this, and no one will really mind if it works like a reverse hurricane or like axe cyclone with a straight-line vector. 

[Booper]

11 minutes ago, Beldath said:

You really don't want that

Sure I do. If I can add something thematically and make it look right, I 100% want to do that. But if it can't be done, then sure, it will stay as is.

[Captain Fabulous]

2 minutes ago, Booper said:

Sure I do. If I can add something thematically and make it look right, I 100% want to do that. But if it can't be done, then sure, it will stay as is.

The only thing I can think of would be a series of vectored inverse repels with a slight inward angle, each lasting long enough to traverse 45-90 degrees of a circle. It should visually approximate pulling inward in a circular fashion while swirling around. Not sure how this compares to what you've tried previously.

[Beldath]

4 minutes ago, Booper said:

Sure I do. If I can add something thematically and make it look right, I 100% want to do that. But if it can't be done, then sure, it will stay as is.

Okay, let me rephrase that, no player wants that. Please don't beanbag Storm Blast. It's a bad idea. A pull will solve most problems, having mobs fly around in circles will not and cause further problems such as melee characters having to constantly chase targets. Also, you forgot to add this type of vector to Axe Cyclone, is it too unrealistic?

[ScarySai]

29 minutes ago, Booper said:

Sure I do. If I can add something thematically and make it look right, I 100% want to do that. But if it can't be done, then sure, it will stay as is.

Cool idea as a thematic choice, awful idea as a gameplay choice.

[Wavicle]

Honestly, the scatter from this set is extremely minimal and easily dealt with simply by taking a Slow or Immobilize ability. Not everyone has access to those, but most do.

I'm not even planning to use KB>KD for this set. Not necessary.

[Dispari]

I would say an inward pull to gather up enemies like Axe does would be great. But just moving enemies around for no reason would only annoy melees.

[Wavicle]

9 minutes ago, Dispari said:

I would say an inward pull to gather up enemies like Axe does would be great. But just moving enemies around for no reason would only annoy melees.

With strength more like Singularity than Axe Cyclone. A slow pull.

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

RE Accuracy:

they are definitely aware of the issues, but in all fairness it isn't as easy as just giving it a huge base acc bonus because that is problematic in and of itself.

 

Its a level 6 power that can put out some pretty huge damage numbers, moves with you (albeit slowly) and is now perma out of the box (or with some recharge slotting previously).

But it isn't the damage that is problematic at low levels imo, Storm Cell actually has some pretty potent debuffs and soft control.

 

The 16 target aoe tohit debuff is as strong as darkest night when you add the auto hit Tempest portion to the High Winds debuff. It is arguably quite a bit better than dark blast in that regard. It can add a lot of early game survivability that is otherwise difficult to acquire from your attack set. It can also make Sentinels very robust in the early game as well (although the debuff is only 10 targets for them of course).

 

So while greatly boosted base acc is likely warranted for late game, it probably swings the pendulum too far in the early game.

 

Power Order Swap

If it were me I'd probably swap the power order of the set. As much as I'd like to have Storm Cell in the early game I'd move Cloudburst to lvl 6* (tier 4) and Storm Cell to lvl 22** (tier 8). That would remove some of the overarching issues present with potentially overpowering Storm Cell.

 

*Energy, Archery, and Seismic to name a few, all have their heavy blast at lvl 6

**Electric has voltaic sentinel at lvl 22 and Storm Cell is  like that power, but on steroids + crack.

 

 

I'd actually say the reverse. Because of how the power acts, it has to rely on itself for accuracy. It may seem like extra good at low levels, but you have to remember, at low levels you also don't have a ton of recharge, and endurance is a much bigger issue as well. So because the procs rely on you attacking, the power also isn't going to do as much in the early levels as well. But that 1.4 base accuracy is HUGELY needed in the later levels to hit +3s/4s (1.4 actually wont be able to even hit the full 95% cap even with 95% acc slotting against +4s on it's own)

[WindDemon21]

15 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

With strength more like Singularity than Axe Cyclone. A slow pull.

Yup, it wouldn't be anywhere near as huge as axe cyclone, it would be the slower pull like sing cause it's more the continual pull in if the wind doing it. axe cyclones pull in would be NUTS in it though could you imagine? lol

[Beldath]

After doing a few more missions, I do feel like the cooldown time of Storm Cell is good, easily gets down to 15 seconds, even less after a few FF procs. so it is almost always up. The enemy targeting issue however never became a problem as everything died too fast for Storm Cell to even really go anywhere. I tend to treat it more like a targeted AoE than a pet, as it is not really going anywhere. Even when I intentionally slowed down it never seemed to be a problem.

 

Also let's get back on topic, fighting amongst ourselves about what is considered feedback is somewhat pointless. Unless they tell us to stop doing something in particular, this argument is just flooding the thread.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Beldath

[Widower]

Right, so I'm not totally sure what happened here, but whatever it was: don't. Thanks.