Focused Feedback: Storm Blast

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Puma]

Initial thoughts on a low level Storm/Trick Arrow Corr:

 

I like the first couple of attacks a lot. They are well balanced, and the animations are nice. Gust could use a LITTLE more power in the sound, but otherwise, great.  

 

Storm cell...I can't figure out.  I mean, it's a slow recharge, set defining power that...feels weak.  It's slow. Like....REALLY slow.  Both in recharge AND waiting around for it to follow you.  And the edges are not clearly defined, so if I want to be in it and get its effects it can be hard at at times. Especially trying to utilize the cone attack. But also...I don't see it doing a lot of damage. Now that could be because I only have three attacks so far besides it, but at this point it just feels disappointing and more aggravating  to use, especially given I have to click where I want it instead of it being centered on a targeted villain.  If this is how the power performs through out, I could honestly see it never getting used except in AV fights on TFs. The secondary effects it offers aren't enough to bother wasting so much time.  At least at this level, anyway, which makes me wonder why it comes this early. Could you swap Chain Lightning with Storm Cell, if that's the case? That way by the time you get Storm Cell, you actually have enough attacks that would trigger its damage to make it worth it?     What kind of damage is it expected to do when you're 50 using all your attacks in its field?  Equivalent to an ice storm?  A single AoE attack?  More?  Less?  I have no idea, and that's a problem.  I know it's sort of like creepers, but those do so much added damage and clear debuffing with their slow, the slow  follow is worth it. You know what you're getting and you don't have to worry about being near it for it to work if you happen to move ahead.  

 

Would it be possible to change it to either a pet more like a wind version of singularity, that can be buffed for speed AND you can clearly know where it is centered at all times?  And can the recharge be reduced?  Otherwise, can it become a toggle centered on you or a villain?  Right now it kind of feels like the worst of all worlds instead of the best.  

 

Also...one more tweak I'd make?  When you're in the storm cell, Jet Stream becomes a PBAoE instead of a cone.  It's really annoying trying to leverage a cone that does repel/knockdown when you're trying to stay in a specific, undefined area.   It becoming a PBAoE power when in the cell would take care of that because it just knows foes around you down and you dont have to try and move around and aim them correctly in a cone configuration.  

Edited April 11, 2023 by Puma

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Puma said:

Initial thoughts on a low level Storm/Trick Arrow Corr:

 

I like the first couple of attacks a lot. They are well balanced, and the animations are nice. Gust could use a LITTLE more power in the sound, but otherwise, great.  

 

Storm cell...I can't figure out.  I mean, it's a slow recharge, set defining power that...feels weak.  It's slow. Like....REALLY slow.  Both in recharge AND waiting around for it to follow you.  And the edges are not clearly defined, so if I want to be in it and get its effects it can be hard at at times. Especially trying to utilize the cone attack. But also...I don't see it doing a lot of damage. Now that could be because I only have three attacks so far besides it, but at this point it just feels disappointing and more aggravating  to use, especially given I have to click where I want it instead of it being centered on a targeted villain.  If this is how the power performs through out, I could honestly see it never getting used except in AV fights on TFs. The secondary effects it offers aren't enough to bother wasting so much time.  At least at this level, anyway, which makes me wonder why it comes this early. Could you swap Chain Lightning with Storm Cell, if that's the case? That way by the time you get Storm Cell, you actually have enough attacks that would trigger its damage to make it worth it?     What kind of damage is it expected to do when you're 50 using all your attacks in its field?  Equivalent to an ice storm?  A single AoE attack?  More?  Less?  I have no idea, and that's a problem.  I know it's sort of like creepers, but those do so much added damage and clear debuffing with their slow, the slow  follow is worth it. You know what you're getting and you don't have to worry about being near it for it to work if you happen to move ahead.  

 

Would it be possible to change it to either a pet more like a wind version of singularity, that can be buffed for speed AND you can clearly know where it is centered at all times?  And can the recharge be reduced?  Otherwise, can it become a toggle centered on you or a villain?  Right now it kind of feels like the worst of all worlds instead of the best.  

 

Also...one more tweak I'd make?  When you're in the storm cell, Jet Stream becomes a PBAoE instead of a cone.  It's really annoying trying to leverage a cone that does repel/knockdown when you're trying to stay in a specific, undefined area.   It becoming a PBAoE power when in the cell would take care of that because it just knows foes around you down and you dont have to try and move around and aim them correctly in a cone configuration.  

Well gust still definitely makes more sense as a cone to push enemies into storm cell. The main problem though is storm cell moving and then your placement getting messed up trying to do so. And then the issue again comes in with storm cells recharge.

 

Both being fixed by having it recharge in 30s working like glue arrow does. Because when you add in range boosts too enemies slightly just off to the side or even behind the storm cell (especially with it moving) actually get pushed away from it, which then you REALLY need it on a faster recharge to be placed where you want it. (Obviously with a faster cast time and lower end cost so doing so isn't as much of a hindrance)

[Booper]

4 hours ago, Puma said:

And the edges are not clearly defined, so if I want to be in it and get its effects it can be hard at at times

You (the player) do not need to be inside the cell to get its effects. The foe you're targeting needs to be.

 

As for lightning/wind procs, you can target any foe to trigger this. However, the procs that are triggered will only hit foes inside the storm cell.

[UltraAlt]

Level 10 Sentinel Storm/Electric

 

1 police mission on +0/0

Seems to be on par with other power sets. Went armor heavy, but armor can withstand the damage long enough to make up for the recharge time on the minimally slotted attacks.

 

Level 10 Corruptor Storm/Storm

 

Ran into a fair amount of mezing, but that happens at level 10. Carried breakfrees so not much of an issue.

First time running with another player that also had storm blast. They started at like level 6 so they didn't have storm front.

Ran several police missions and a safeguard at +1,1

Seemed to work fine to me. Recharge time on storm front was not an issue - usable, more or less, on every other mob.

Set appears to be working as intended.

 

Level 30 Defender Storm/Storm

 

A lot of clicking and placing going on, which makes me take my hands off the game controller than I normally would do. Tactics increasing in complication a bit.

Ran several police missions +2/1

Continues to be easy to pen in enemies. When enemies are penned in, there is usually no issue defeating them. Enemies that can't be penned in seem more challenging. As it is on all indoor maps, there is usually a way to pen in opponents; knocking/repelling them back/down and blast them between knocking/repelling them back/down.

Still fun to play, but seems busy at some point. A of stuff going on. Nothing necessarily wrong with it seeming to be busy to me.

 

Level 30 Blaster Storm/Martial arts

 

Generally focusing on bosses/LTs first by knocking/repelling them back/down into a wall or corner and blast them/kicking them between knocking/repelling them back/down. With Blistering Cold: Recharge/Chance for Hold Blistering Cold: Chance for Hold slotted in ki push (on autofire) with 2 accs and a recharge, there is also a chance for a hold in the mix which allows for even more time blasting/kicking the target. The extra repel/knockdown just being more icing on the cake for this tactic.

Ran several police missions +2/1

No real issues with enemies unless I make a tactical error. 

Set appears to be working as intended.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

On 4/8/2023 at 5:19 PM, xmenlegend said:

My only suggestion would be to make the lightning fx the same color yellow as the lightning in "Lightning Storm" in the storm summoning set, that way all the powers aren't just blue all the time.

 

Makes sense to add a little more color to the set.

Color tinting can helps a lot, but I don't know if color tinting will affect Storm Cell's lightning.

 

On 4/8/2023 at 5:19 PM, xmenlegend said:

Maybe also make the wind fx more white and leave the snow/rain/ice blue?

 

oh, please. not "more white". The white fx and all white characters hurt my eyes. 

But you can use color tinting to change the color of your powers.

I can use /noparticles 1 to get rid of the SFX and that helps a lot, but I like to see the SFX, so please avoid white power SFX.

 

*** Other SFX stuff ****

 

I agree that it can be a bit hard to see where Storm Cell is located - especially if you have Steamy Mist up.

Color tinting seems to able to compensate for this, but I have no idea how many players color tint their powers from the-get-go. 

So perhaps color tinting the area of the Storm Cell fx that is at ground level would help better define its location for players that are having issues with that now.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by UltraAlt

[electric_emu]

 

I spent some time with it on a Sentinel (Storm/Fire) and two Blasters (Storm/Fire and Storm/Martial).  Some thoughts:

 

It is a lot of fun and the overall presentation/feel are amazing.  Direct Strike/Lightning Strike is one of the coolest looking powers in the game now.  Cat 5's intensification fx feel great as well.  I love the intensification/storm strength mechanic. It is creative, novel, and very thematically appropriate  Also appreciate how the set performs on Sentinels, since you're not quite as hamstrung by lower target caps compared to some other sets.

 

There are a few nits to pick.  Hailstones... the chunks of ice are too... blue, I think?  They look like what happens when I try to change Ice Swords and have to select an "ice" color myself that ends up looking a bit off.  Cloudburst's animation is great but lacks a certain punchiness when it hits.  Chain Lightning's animation is weird.  I think I'd rather see something closer Electrical Affinity buffs, Electrical Blast's attacks, or simply a ranged Chain Induction.  

 

Storm Cell is really tough to keep track of.  Happy to see its fx are being tweaked so I won't say much else.

 

I will echo some others and say Storm Cell should have a lower recharge (but keep the duration!).  Perma out of the box would be ideal, since the set kind of hobbles when it's not active.  Since it's prone to wandering (I think, again it's hard to tell lol), you are still encouraged to replace it occasionally so lots of global recharge or a recharge enhancement aren't wasted and lower level characters get the full benefits as soon as they pick it up.

Edited April 11, 2023 by electric_emu

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[electric_emu]

6 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

It's 60 seconds on a 90 second timer. One recharge SO brings it down to 68 seconds. Two to 54 and three to 46. It doesn't take much to have it up all the time, even at low levels. It's also good that it follows critters because it needs to be on them to proc, not you. 

 

I did not say I wanted it to be stationary, I actually like that it moves.  However, sometimes it moves where it's not wanted (following a runner for example) so there is value in being able to reposition it from time to time.  Lowering its base recharge allows for more flexibility in doing that at all levels.     

 

Sure, you can throw a recharge SO in the default slot.  But 1) that doesn't even make it perma (even if 8s downtime is fairly trivial, it is downtime) and 2) you have to commit to maintaining the recharge SO as you level up to give the power a functional cooldown (at least until level 22 or so).  Given the set relies so heavily on Storm Cell, I do not think enhancing its recharge should be a requirement.   Especially when you'd probably rather slot for damage, endurance reduction, or even KB to KD.  I just think it's better to let recharge enhancements (or global recharge) go to allowing greater flexibility in positioning instead of being necessary to maintain the set's defining gimmick.   

[TygerDarkstorm]

59 minutes ago, electric_emu said:

 

I did not say I wanted it to be stationary, I actually like that it moves.  However, sometimes it moves where it's not wanted (following a runner for example) so there is value in being able to reposition it from time to time.  Lowering its base recharge allows for more flexibility in doing that at all levels.     

 

Sure, you can throw a recharge SO in the default slot.  But 1) that doesn't even make it perma (even if 8s downtime is fairly trivial, it is downtime) and 2) you have to commit to maintaining the recharge SO as you level up to give the power a functional cooldown (at least until level 22 or so).  Given the set relies so heavily on Storm Cell, I do not think enhancing its recharge should be a requirement.   Especially when you'd probably rather slot for damage, endurance reduction, or even KB to KD.  I just think it's better to let recharge enhancements (or global recharge) go to allowing greater flexibility in positioning instead of being necessary to maintain the set's defining gimmick.   

I get what you, and folks like you are saying about the recharge/duration, but trust me, it's better like this. If they lower the recharge, they will lower the duration to compensate, and frankly, when we tried it that way, it sucked waaaay more. We tried advocating for it to be more like Faraday Cage or have some more flexibility since it is the cornerstone of the set, but no dice. So yeah, if you want it to be perma, you're probably going to need to commit to Recharge SO's/IO's in it; which I didn't find bad in the grand scheme of leveling. Having storm cell active more often, imo, grants overall better DPS than running without it active, even if you lose a slot or two in it in the process.

[ScarySai]

Just slap a posi set in there and call it a day.

 

Do I think Storm Cell could probably contribute more? Sure.

 

Do I think they'll do that without nerfing something else, probably not, even though I think it'd be fine.

Edited April 11, 2023 by ScarySai

[electric_emu]

32 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

I get what you, and folks like you are saying about the recharge/duration, but trust me, it's better like this. If they lower the recharge, they will lower the duration to compensate, and frankly, when we tried it that way, it sucked waaaay more. We tried advocating for it to be more like Faraday Cage or have some more flexibility since it is the cornerstone of the set, but no dice. So yeah, if you want it to be perma, you're probably going to need to commit to Recharge SO's/IO's in it; which I didn't find bad in the grand scheme of leveling. Having storm cell active more often, imo, grants overall better DPS than running without it active, even if you lose a slot or two in it in the process.

 

Interesting.  So perma out of the box is a non-starter?  I certainly don't want the duration cut, that just becomes more busy work.

 

 As Captain Fabulous pointed out, it's very easy to perma.  So it just seems... strange, I guess, that it is balanced by downtime that is easy to overcome.   It doesn't take much global recharge, and any IO set it would want has enough recharge enhancements to do the job on its own.  So it feels like it's just punishing lower level characters by having them choose between the upkeep of a recharge SO or having downtime on the set's primary mechanic.

 

 As a balance decision, it's more of an annoyance than anything else because it does nothing to actually limit the set's potential.  Not sure I can think of a comparable example in another powerset.  Anyway, if perma out of the box is not an option than I would prefer they leave it as is.  It does its job well, and it's a non-issue by the midgame anyway.

[Puma]

2 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

It's 60 seconds on a 90 second timer. One recharge SO brings it down to 68 seconds. Two to 54 and three to 46. It doesn't take much to have it up all the time, even at low levels. It's also good that it follows critters because it needs to be on them to proc, not you. 

Except it doesn't always follow the foe you want, right?  That's why I personally would like this more like rad's toggles.  Pick a boss, plant a storm cell on them, and its affects follow that boss.  

 

 Right now, it's sooooo slow that if I got between mobs while it's up I find myself waiting for it to recharge before engaging the next mob because it took so long to follow me to the next mob I don't trust it to last for much of the fight.   

  

 

Which has translated to "I dont bother casting it at all unless I really think this fight will need it" which makes it a far less useful power that I'd rather be replaced with a standard AoE at that point. 

[Puma]

5 hours ago, Booper said:

You (the player) do not need to be inside the cell to get its effects. The foe you're targeting needs to be.

 

As for lightning/wind procs, you can target any foe to trigger this. However, the procs that are triggered will only hit foes inside the storm cell.

This, again, gets at how confusing a power it is.  I have no idea how much damage it's expected to do (does it follow the typical proc formula? Random? etc), where it is, who it's going to target, etc.  Even in the character creation screen it doesn't give any clue what kind of damage we're talking about.  And if the damage is directly tied to how many storm attacks you're using or some attacks being more likely to trigger lightning, etc. then I would, again, suggest swapping it for chain lightning in the order. I think, from what I'm seeing, lower level sets would benefit more from a defined amount of damage and reliability at low levels, and then at higher levels start to benefit more from the boosts to secondary effects and additional random damage. 

  

But mostly...I just want its speed either increased, or let us control who it targets.  Those alone would help me see the value more at lower/mid levels. 

[Puma]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

*** Other SFX stuff ****

 

I agree that it can be a bit hard to see where Storm Cell is located - especially if you have Steamy Mist up.

Color tinting seems to able to compensate for this, but I have no idea how many players color tint their powers from the-get-go. 

So perhaps color tinting the area of the Storm Cell fx that is at ground level would help better define its location for players that are having issues with that now.

 

 

 

So you know how Dark Control can turn characters who suffer from their effects dark? 

  

Could you add a trigger for NPCs affected by Storm Cell that gives them a mild blue tint from being cold?  That way it would be easier to see who is being affected, and give us a visual cue where to focus our storm attacks, and it would also be unique and look very cool without having crazy overpowering mist etc. for everyone to deal with. 

[Booper]

4 minutes ago, Puma said:

This, again, gets at how confusing a power it is.  I have no idea how much damage it's expected to do (does it follow the typical proc formula? Random? etc), where it is, who it's going to target, etc.  Even in the character creation screen it doesn't give any clue what kind of damage we're talking about.  And if the damage is directly tied to how many storm attacks you're using or some attacks being more likely to trigger lightning, etc. then I would, again, suggest swapping it for chain lightning in the order. I think, from what I'm seeing, lower level sets would benefit more from a defined amount of damage and reliability at low levels, and then at higher levels start to benefit more from the boosts to secondary effects and additional random damage. 

  

But mostly...I just want its speed either increased, or let us control who it targets.  Those alone would help me see the value more at lower/mid levels. 

Descriptions have been touched and should be in next build. For the time being, the minute details can be found on City of Data (choose cryptic branch)

[Puma]

16 minutes ago, Booper said:

Descriptions have been touched and should be in next build. For the time being, the minute details can be found on City of Data (choose cryptic branch)

That's awesome!  FYI Im a little confused by what Intensify means by "slightly increase  your storm strenth" as well.  I assume it means "will also increase the chance of damage from a Storm Cell" but I'm not quite sure. 

[TygerDarkstorm]

35 minutes ago, electric_emu said:

 

Interesting.  So perma out of the box is a non-starter?  I certainly don't want the duration cut, that just becomes more busy work.

 

 As Captain Fabulous pointed out, it's very easy to perma.  So it just seems... strange, I guess, that it is balanced by downtime that is easy to overcome.   It doesn't take much global recharge, and any IO set it would want has enough recharge enhancements to do the job on its own.  So it feels like it's just punishing lower level characters by having them choose between the upkeep of a recharge SO or having downtime on the set's primary mechanic.

 

 As a balance decision, it's more of an annoyance than anything else because it does nothing to actually limit the set's potential.  Not sure I can think of a comparable example in another powerset.  Anyway, if perma out of the box is not an option than I would prefer they leave it as is.  It does its job well, and it's a non-issue by the midgame anyway.

Yep, perma out of the box won't be happening. And like I said, it being on a shorter duration/recharge was actually worse in play.

 

I agree its design as is, is a bit odd, but yeah, it's current implementation works just fine (I still think it working like Faraday Cage would have been cool since it's the cornerstone of the set and Storm Blast plays like poo without Storm Cell up, but you take what you can get).

[Booper]

4 minutes ago, Booper said:

Descriptions have been touched and should be in next build. For the time being, the minute details can be found on City of Data (choose cryptic branch)

Example of tweaks. The probability of procs will show under the damage for each attack. Also, special "In Storm" effects will be stated too.

 

[Booper]

11 minutes ago, Puma said:

That's awesome!  FYI Im a little confused by what Intensify means by "slightly increase  your storm strenth" as well.  I assume it means "will also increase the chance of damage from a Storm Cell" but I'm not quite sure. 

It increases your proc chances by 20 percentage points for 10s. So in the image above, The 70% chance for High Winds becomes 90%, the 60% chance of Lightning becomes 80%

[Captain Fabulous]

<snip>

Edited April 17, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[ScarySai]

I dig adding the proc chances to the advanced tool tip.

 

And I honestly don't see how people think cloudburst underperforms. Between that, hailstorm and DS, as well as the absurdly high chance to proc, it's pretty strong.

[ScarySai]

2 hours ago, Puma said:

That's awesome!  FYI Im a little confused by what Intensify means by "slightly increase  your storm strenth" as well.  I assume it means "will also increase the chance of damage from a Storm Cell" but I'm not quite sure. 

Intensify buffs your proc chances for lightning and wind by 20%. So cloudburst would be 90% for wind and 80% for lightning.

[Puma]

2 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Toggle debuffs don't always stay where you want them either. There's nothing to stop the anchor from running away from the main group, bringing the debuff with them. Could Storm Cell be a fixed location AoE? I guess. But I think it would be far less interesting and unique that way. And really, if you're plowing thru critters so fast that SC can't keep up with you then you really don't need it. Not every power has to be used in every situation. It's a commonality shared with a good number of sets.

Some good examples in Blast Sets are Ice Storm and Rain of Fire. They last for 15 seconds with a 60 second recharge. Very large AoEs with a ton of damage, and definitely cornerstone powers in those sets. But without significant recharge you're not going to be using them on every mob. And if you're moving very quickly you'll probably skip using them altogether because they'll actually slow you down. Or just use it as an alpha when it's up and other powers when it's not. Exactly as you would Storm Cell.

Two things: 

 

1: But if a critter with a toggle anchor runs away from the group you can very easily detoggle and within a few seconds set it back on someone else in the group, so you never really lose control over it.  And Im running it right now at level 10, and it still struggles to keep up with me, so I'm not sure how you could possibly expect it to be better as I get actual, strong powers and move even faster.  My issue is that it's recharge length and duration make it so when it's time to move on, it's both slow enough AND short enough that I assume 1/4 of the way through the fight it will fade and I'll be stuck without it for the whole fight. Which means I cant really plan on it, so I don't worry about it that often.  Im not sure that's the best design idea for a power that's meant to be the backbone of a set. 

 

2: I don't know a single defender/blaster/Corr who doesn't use rain of fire and ice storm every single mob.  Most peopl get it perma easily, and lay it as soon as it comes up.  You'd be really dumb not to since it's by far the most damaging power in the sets outside of your nuke, given its huge AoE and its fast tics of damage, not even getting into its slow effects.   But again, those sets don't have key components of the rest of their attacks tied to their use, either.  

[Frosticus]

hmm I'd change storm cell to be target centered rather than location based.

I'd leave it as not requiring line of sight.

 

The reason I'd do that is twofold:

1. I can't imagine most players actually use target location binds, so while I do, most players probably have to click and place it, which can be pretty tedious.

2. More importantly and the main reason to make it targeted is because it should work more like haunt and be taunted on to the target you select for the duration/defeat and then star moving around freely. I think it would work better in practice with that behavior as right now I am unsure who it decides to start following if the mob scatters.