Fiery Melee?

[Cutter]

Does anyone play this primary? I looked through the last 10 or so pages of forum posts and can't find anything about it. Did the i27p5 changes back in October make it terrible? Was it always terrible & the changes didn't help? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

(if it matters, I'm looking to pair it with /Elec)

[Meknomancer]

3 hours ago, Cutter said:

Does anyone play this primary? I looked through the last 10 or so pages of forum posts and can't find anything about it. Did the i27p5 changes back in October make it terrible? Was it always terrible & the changes didn't help? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

(if it matters, I'm looking to pair it with /Elec)

 

 

Its not that nobody's playing fire melee its just that: 

 

a) they either already have one with a build  for it or more likely....

b) they had one and realised tank is superior to brute (especially with fire melee) due to the increased number of targets tank aoe's hit, tanks having a second aoe in combustion, better ATo sets, higher hp caps, better def/res....and then junked the brute and re-rolled it as a tank. And didn't notice any loss in dps. 

 

 

Totally unhelpful comments there my apologies, something to look at:

 

 

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Level 49 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Fire Sword    
 (A) Superior Brute's Fury - Recharge/Fury Bonus
 (3) Superior Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (3) Superior Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Damage
 (5) Superior Brute's Fury - Damage/Recharge
 (5) Superior Brute's Fury - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (46) Superior Brute's Fury - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 1:    Charged Armor    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
 (45) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (45) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (46) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 2:    Lightning Field    
 (A) Superior Unrelenting Fury - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (37) Superior Unrelenting Fury - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
 (40) Superior Unrelenting Fury - Damage/RechargeTime
 (40) Superior Unrelenting Fury - Accuracy/Damage
 (43) Superior Unrelenting Fury - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (43) Superior Unrelenting Fury - RechargeTime/+Regen/+End

Level 4:    Conductive Shield    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
 (7) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (37) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (37) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 6:    Build Up    
 (A) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge
 (7) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff

Level 8:    Incinerate    
 (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
 (9) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
 (9) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
 (13) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (17) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
 (36) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage

Level 10:    Static Shield    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
 (11) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (11) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (13) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 12:    Boxing    
 (A) Empty

Level 14:    Tough    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
 (15) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (15) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (17) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 16:    Grounded    
 (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
 (46) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 18:    Cremate    
 (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
 (19) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
 (19) Hecatomb - Recharge/Accuracy
 (21) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
 (21) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
 (47) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 20:    Lightning Reflexes    
 (A) Run Speed IO

Level 22:    Weave    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (23) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
 (23) Shield Wall - Defense
 (36) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance

Level 24:    Maneuvers    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (25) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
 (25) Reactive Defenses - Defense
 (36) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance

Level 26:    Fire Sword Circle    
 (A) Superior Avalanche - Recharge/Chance for Knockdown
 (27) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (27) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage
 (34) Superior Avalanche - Damage/Endurance
 (34) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

Level 28:    Energize    
 (A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
 (29) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
 (29) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
 (31) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
 (31) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
 (31) Preventive Medicine - Heal

Level 30:    Tactics    
Hamidon Origin:Cytoskeleton Exposure

Level 32:    Greater Fire Sword    
 (A) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage
 (33) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance
 (33) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
 (33) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (34) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime

Level 35:    Power Sink    
 (A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Recharge

Level 38:    Gloom    
 (A) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
 (39) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
 (39) Apocalypse - Recharge/Accuracy
 (39) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
 (40) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge

Level 41:    Dark Obliteration    
 (A) Ragnarok - Recharge/Accuracy
 (42) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
 (42) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
 (42) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
 (43) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown

Level 44:    Combat Jumping    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (45) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 47:    Hasten    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO
 (47) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 49:    Super Speed    
 (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 1:    Fury    
Level 1:    Brawl    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Sprint    
 (A) Empty

Level 2:    Rest    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Swift    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Hurdle    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Health    
 (A) Miracle - +Recovery
 (48) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
 (48) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery

Level 1:    Stamina    
 (A) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self
 (48) Power Transfer - EndMod
 (49) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

Level 49:    Speed Phase    
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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Edited April 12, 2023 by Meknomancer
To add mids build

[evetsleep]

I have both a fire/inv brute and an inv/fire tank.  You can make brute invul super tough, but the tank is just easier, so then I looked at fire melee and the bigger AoE's and additional AoE really do make a big difference.

 

I'm playing both and I find the tank version easier and more effective.

Edited April 12, 2023 by evetsleep

[Cutter]

Thanks for the insights both of you, and the build @Meknomancer. I'll have a look for sure.

[nihilii]

For what it's worth, the i27p5 changes turned Fire Melee from a mediocre set to a top end one.

GFS was sped up massively, Cremate gets KD, swords can slot Achilles' Heel procs.

These changes pushed it into high DPS territory, and AOE was always good.

I concur with previous points re: Brutes vs Tankers. Or vs Scrappers if you want to focus on the ST side. FM Brutes are good, it just so happens alternative archetypes get even more out of it.

[Erratic1]

On 4/14/2023 at 6:28 AM, nihilii said:

I concur with previous points re: Brutes vs Tankers. Or vs Scrappers if you want to focus on the ST side. FM Brutes are good, it just so happens alternative archetypes get even more out of it.

 

Hmmm...would I have started the FM/EA brute last night had I seen this first? Doesn't the logic for FM hold for every other damage set: Tankers get more area, Scrappers get more single target damage?

 

I had decided I was going to make an Energy Aura brute, partially because Tankers don't get EA and partially because I had not played the set on a brute since Live. For primary, Battle Axe, FM, and Katana were considered, and theme came to me for FM. Of course, low level Brute play is always fun. 

 

I've got my eye on Dark Mastery (which Scrappers don't get), in particular Tar Patch.

 

Took some flack on the forums over the years for not loving every AT having the sake powersets due to proliferation, but really feeling justified in that view just now.

[nihilii]

3 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Doesn't the logic for FM hold for every other damage set: Tankers get more area, Scrappers get more single target damage?

 

To an extent this is true but FM is a special case because Tankers get Combustion instead of Cremate. They trade a little ST damage output for 2x the AoE output.

TBH I find your reasoning justified, /EA alone is worth playing a Brute.

[Erratic1]

Well, he flew through the Protean arc, melting things pretty quickly.

[Sovera]

Cremate is godly. 100%  chance of KU on demand and decent damage. But Combustion ALSO is godly as two PbAoEs makes maping a breeze. A pity we are not allowed to have both.

[nihilii]

It cannot be helped. There's absolutely nothing in Fire Melee that could be replaced. Nothing at all.

[Sovera]

12 minutes ago, nihilii said:

It cannot be helped. There's absolutely nothing in Fire Melee that could be replaced. Nothing at all.

 

....

 

FIRE BREATH.

[Lunar Ronin]

Not a Brute, but I recently got two (yes, two), Fiery Melee/Energy Aura Stalkers to level 50.  So, so good.  Fiery Melee is so much better and smoother now compared to 2019.  Much damage.  Big numbers.  Mobs melt.  Such wow.

[Haijinx]

7 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

Not a Brute, but I recently got two (yes, two), Fiery Melee/Energy Aura Stalkers to level 50.  So, so good.  Fiery Melee is so much better and smoother now compared to 2019.  Much damage.  Big numbers.  Mobs melt.  Such wow.

Plus a literal fire sword is the pinnacle of sneaky weapons 

[TheMoncrief]

Every time I look at Fiery Melee on any AT except Tanker, I get sad. I understand that Cremate is not a bad power, but it's not the Combustion that I know and love. And with a reasonable amount of recharge, Tanker Fiery Melee has perfectly respectable ST damage. Then again, Brute Fiery melee also has perfectly respectable AoE damage, it's just not as good as the Tanker version because of the Gauntlet buff *AND* Combustion. It's not that Brute Fiery Melee is bad, until you compare it to the absolute gem that is Tanker Fiery Melee.

 

I do wish there were options to graphically reskin all (or at last most) of the attacks to either all use Fire Swords, or none use Fire Swords.

[Haijinx]

On 4/25/2024 at 1:52 PM, Sovera said:

 

....

 

FIRE BREATH.

Don't Tankers get a Arc size increase on that one?

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Don't Tankers get a Arc size increase on that one?

 

They should. So instead of the native 30º it ought to be 45º.

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

They should. So instead of the native 30º it ought to be 45º.

 

That almost brings it up to just being bad 

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

 

That almost brings it up to just being bad 

 

If you look at it as a single-target power which occassionally hits other targets, its damage is not horrible.

 

Or you step backwards before using. But yeah, it is not PBAOE like Combustion

[Haijinx]

It looks like a Fire/Fire Tanker could be something awesome 

 

Which is irony since in the early days it was kind of the defacto Scranker choice 

[Erratic1]

It is amazing just how often discussions in the Brute forum turn into Tank discussions. 

 

Fire/Fire Tanker was the original farmer.

[TheMoncrief]

On 4/25/2024 at 5:00 AM, Sovera said:

Cremate is godly. 100%  chance of KU on demand and decent damage. But Combustion ALSO is godly as two PbAoEs makes maping a breeze. A pity we are not allowed to have both.

 

You have convinced me to give Cremate a chance. Long ago I made a Fire/Rad Brute, Played it through Atlas Park, noticed that Cremate is not Combustion, and shelved it. But I had the urge to play a Brute and this was the one I picked up. Cremate is not IMHO godly, but it is a solid attack. I will set aside my distaste for mixing Fire Sword and Fire non-sword attacks for this character, because a Brute really does kind of need more than just two single-target attacks. The knockup is nice, as you said. I'm hoping Rad Armor will give me back a bit of the AoE I lost with Combustion.

[Erratic1]

The Brute is now up to 43rd level. Went with Dark for his Epic pool and have Petrifying Gaze and Dark Blast for powers (suitably recolored to stick with a flame theme). Half a level should bring Tar Patch. I purchased the two +3% Def IOs for him because they are a lot of bang for little buck. Definitely coming along nicely.

 

Breath of Fire is a difficult power to love, but it has its moments. Keeping it for now.

Edited May 13 by Erratic1

[Erratic1]

Been slow (playing other characters, other games) but got the FM/EA Brute to 50 today. 

 

He feels solid enough to invest the influence/time/effort to IO, even if obviously not an S-tier combo.