Barrier

[Tankshock]

This seems to have gotten more popular while I was away.  Is that due to new content, or just a misperception on my part?

[FupDup]

Hardmode content. People rely on stacking Barrier's mega defense boost to deal with the massively increased accuracy that enemies get in hardmode stuff. 

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

This seems to have gotten more popular while I was away.  Is that due to new content, or just a misperception on my part?

The very high defense it grants disproportionately helps a lot with the new "Star-difficulty" or "hard mode" content that was added.  In general, though, I advocate taking whichever destiny power you like most.  That being said, you will be able to craft multiple destiny slot abilities eventually, so you can switch between equipping whichever one suits your (or your team's) needs the best...

[ZemX]

I wanted to say Hardmode content too but honestly you don't see a whole ton of hardmode teams advertising.  Unless most of the people running it are regular teams coordinating via Discord or private channels.

 

I think even for normal content it's just become more popular because it has an immediate effect to help stop incoming damage.  If you've been defense debuffed, the very high but short-lived portion of the defense buff helps those debuffs fall off too.   It likely mitigates more damage than any other Destiny power.

[biostem]

7 minutes ago, ZemX said:

I think even for normal content it's just become more popular because it has an immediate effect to help stop incoming damage.

This pretty much summarizes it - it's an easy 1-stop click to basically cover all your bases that works in pretty much all content.

[High_Beam]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

I wanted to say Hardmode content too but honestly you don't see a whole ton of hardmode teams advertising.

Well on Excelsior whenever Hard Mode ITF is even whispered in LFG it has MUST HAVE T4 BARRIER in bold with stars and exclamation points and middle fingers!

[Luminara]

45 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

Well on Excelsior whenever Hard Mode ITF is even whispered in LFG it has MUST HAVE T4 BARRIER in bold with stars and exclamation points and middle fingers!

 

Sounds like a...

 

barrier to entry.

 

[FupDup]

1 hour ago, High_Beam said:

Well on Excelsior whenever Hard Mode ITF is even whispered in LFG it has MUST HAVE T4 BARRIER in bold with stars and exclamation points and middle fingers!

NO ENERGY DAMAGE!

[Kaika]

Overall barrier is generally the best pick, at least in a organized, hard content, setting. At it's lowest effectiveness it's still 5% Def and 5% Res would be big even if it was just that, but it spikes your teams survivability effectively to cap for around 30 seconds after use. Multiply that by 6-8 and you have a team that's basically untouchable in any content, without having to worry about personal def/res. This effect works easily in PUGs and in organized group and making handling the extremely buffed enemy's MUCH easier.

 

Even if we take it out of 4* content Barrier is easily one of the best choices when it comes to effectively almost any content. Again even at it min, which can be perma, 5%def and Res can have a MASSIVE impact on survivability, the def alone can lower damage by around 50% if you def was already at 40%. The spikes it reaches can often be a better deterrent against Def failure then Ageless radial, as the spike of Def stops the exponential growth of -def and gives it enough time to fall off. This is not to say that it's ALWAYS the best, especially when solo, ageless core is infinite end effectively, rebirth can provide tons of sustainability to characters that otherwise have little, and Clarion removes what is one of the biggest weakness/annoyance for several ATs. It's just if all those are met, Barrier is a easy pick, and if stacked, quickly snowballs your survivability to absurd levels, something which does not really happen with the other choices.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Riot Siren

[High_Beam]

Please note, I am not saying they are bad people for demanding it, its their TF they can run it how they see fit and I can opt not to join; FREEDOM (Freedom not available in all locations; void where prohibited).  Granted I have it on one or two but I Incarnate based on what I want.

[MoonSheep]

barrier needs to have an adjustment in the next patch to stop it stacking, the benefits it provides are disproportionately high compared to the other incarnate powers

 

it also allows people create very boring teams where nervous TF leaders mandate all people have it, yawn

[Tankshock]

Interesting.  Seems like the stacking is what makes it the choice du jour.  Individually, I've always thought Rebirth was the best survivability power, +1600% regen is more useful to a lot of maxed out toons.

Don't sets like Time make worrying about def irrelevant, even in hardmode?

[EmperorSteele]

The thing with Time, is that the boost is smaller, in both effectiveness and radius. The T4 Barrier is like a 90 foot radius or something, because it was designed with league play in mind.  So you don't have to corral your team when your barrier is up. Also, the x2 rez is a nice cherry on top.

[Tankshock]

Fair, 90' is huge, much better for leagues.  Perma 20% is probably better than having only 5% half of the time, though.

[ZemX]

11 hours ago, High_Beam said:

Well on Excelsior whenever Hard Mode ITF is even whispered in LFG it has MUST HAVE T4 BARRIER in bold with stars and exclamation points and middle fingers!

 

Right.  I've seen the same thing.  Which is why I wanted to say its increased popularity was due to Hardmodes... except Hardmodes themselves aren't run nearly as often as anything else.  I think Barrier is just that good for any content compared to the other choices.

[Kaika]

39 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

Fair, 90' is huge, much better for leagues.  Perma 20% is probably better than having only 5% half of the time, though.

First the 5% is perma last the full 2 mins with a fixed 2 min cooldown. The thing is while time is extremely powerful, and the power boosted Far sight can bring you to ludicrous Def numbers, this isn't enough in 4* to make the team not take damage. I think important to state the difference in power between 4* content and normal content, is ridiculous, 4* enemies have MUCH higher to-hit and tend to all be rocking HEAVY DEBUFFS, making massive amounts of def needed to reach that effective soft cap. They do this by rotating Barriers on a timer, usually 6 of them two at a time, the aim is to keep the entire groups Def well above 100% as any below this and survivability starts to become a active issue. Barrier only has 5% that's perma but for around 30 seconds it provides 30% def and res, stack and timed and this can cap the teams res/def in almost any situation, while not limiting AT/Power selection. Basically it lets just about any combination of characters cap their Def and Res. Keep in mind also that this stacks with things like farsight as well, it's one of the reasons cold is considered good.

 

Now this is all in the context of high end content, you don't need this for normal play. You don't need this in context of most normal missions, 45-50% Def is MORE then enough to make most enemy groups a joke, and easy to reach on your own. However barrier still lets you spike that def well above that point, allowing you to mitigate -def, and also provides you with a large amount of resist that you may not have. On top of that most high end builds only soft cap S/L or a relevant typed def, takeing barrier allows for leway on other positions or damage types that you might not have soft capped def too. Again this is why I mentioned that it's not exactly the choice for every toon, but why some, most 4*, groups require it

Edited April 22, 2023 by Riot Siren

[Astralock]

Barrier isn't needed in 4* hard modes.  It's used as a crutch in lieu of actual team composition and build variety, and gameplay.  Destiny stacking needs to be done away with altogether, IMO.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Astralock

[Yaliw]

What you call a crutch, I call a viable strategy. It's all a matter of perception here.

 

I'd be ok if it was nerfed/tweaked but for now it's a strategy that can be used in hardmode.

[lemming]

Most of my chars wind up with barrier, but Destiny is my most varied with the goal of t4 in one of each Destiny,

The revive in Barrier is sometimes why I carry it.

I wonder if the safe zone from Incan could work with decent coordination.

 

Though I think that's why the reliance on Barrier, easier to coordinate a team, rather than make sure you got the right power arrangement.

[Tankshock]

4 hours ago, Riot Siren said:

First the 5% is perma last the full 2 mins with a fixed 2 min cooldown.

Wait, T4 has downtime?  I've been away awhile - aren't T4 Destinys perma?

 

Definitely seems like the key to Barrier is the stacking.  Do you all coordinate making it Auto at the start of a run?  Seems really tedious otherwise.

[Tankshock]

Don't the squishies need some form of mez protection?  Might be a throwback to the early days, but I really hate getting mezzed.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Tankshock said:

Don't the squishies need some form of mez protection?  Might be a throwback to the early days, but I really hate getting mezzed.

Clarion's got you covered, in that case...

[Spaghetti Betty]

4 hours ago, Astralock said:

Barrier isn't needed in 4* hard modes.  It's used as a crutch in lieu of actual team composition and build variety, and gameplay.

QFT. I can speak from experience that the Barrier spamming technique is there to ensure 4* runs can be completed smoothly no matter what the team comp may be. It's the only way some of the runs my group engages in could be completed (All blasters, Melee ATs only, EATs/Sents only dread this one every time, speedruns). A well-balanced group of support toons can easily replace the need for everyone on the team to have a T4 Barrier, but that can force players into having to bring certain toons to be able to participate.

[Scarlet Shocker]

probably due to an increase in a number of player characters called Barry

[Yaliw]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

probably due to an increase in a number of player characters called Barry

You may be Barry but I'm BARRY-ER