The profanity filter

[Clave Dark 5]

On 8/6/2023 at 9:28 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

burning books and cancelling words seems like a stopgap measure at best

Who said anything about burning books?  "Canceling" feels a bit extreme as well. 

 

I mean, you can say whatever hateful thing you want IIRC, but you have to take it when people point out that you're being an absolute tool for it.  Here, seems like a sensible enough rule to keep the place from going to the dogs.  "Stopgaps" do help worse from happening and ion this case, can also signal what the mindset of the people running the show want and expect of its users.

[Hyperstrike]

On 8/6/2023 at 2:03 AM, Turric said:

To echo Rudra, many people born before 1990 would recognize the word as offensive. I was born in the 1970s and for me it was a part of my lexicon for many years, especially when I was younger. It has taken some effort to edit it from usage. That, and calling people or things "retarded". I think I was in my 30s before I really recognized how offensive some of my words were.

 

<---- Thoughtless youth!

WORDS aren't offensive.
And NO, I will not apologize for those who find the concept I've just forwarded "offensive".
They're just words.
It's the thought process used by the person uttering or hearing the words.
Thus, in the end, it's entirely a "you" problem.
As such, this is why we have the word filter.
Use it, or don't.
Play or don't.
In the end, the only one you have ANY modicum of control over is YOURSELF.
 

[honoroit]

the prior evokes 'its not a gun that shoots someone'

 

to topic - that a person would want to do a thing, that causes harm. thats a very human problem and desire.

 

an act then is, of nature, offensive - when it is associated with an attack, or agression, or stripping fluff --> intent to sew or manifest a harm.

 

why would some mock those of physical or mental deformity?  

 

to cause isolate, and societally, to encourage self eliminate, ostricisation, and create conditions where it is unpalatable for them to breed, and where a distaste follows the target.

 

without thinking it through - its easier to substitute bad/wrong/punishable for <moniker>.  'i was / is only having a laugh', says the transgressor, irritated and abdicating inner sentiment.

 

do you (any or all of us) go out of your way to harm others with words, in a video game?

 

if so, what drives the desire to?

[UltraAlt]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:50 PM, Scutt said:

I do find labeling "queer" a profane word a bit troubling. Maybe this is newish? Maybe it always has been and no one noticed/cared/brought it up? I myself am queer, and I took a mere smattering of offense at it.

 

I'm probably a good bit older than you, but "queer" was used as an insult to people and some used it as profanity in the past. Using the word to embrace one's sexuallity wasn't "a thing".

 

Times change, but simply because someone has decided to embrace a word that was used against people in a derogatory manner does not mean that it still isn't being used by others in a derogatory manner.

 

If you want to turn the profanity filter off, then feel free to do so.

 

I want you to be free and I hope you enjoy your life, but this borders on being political.

[Scutt]

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I'm probably a good bit older than you, but "queer" was used as an insult to people and some used it as profanity in the past. Using the word to embrace one's sexuallity wasn't "a thing".

 

Times change, but simply because someone has decided to embrace a word that was used against people in a derogatory manner does not mean that it still isn't being used by others in a derogatory manner.

 

If you want to turn the profanity filter off, then feel free to do so.

 

I want you to be free and I hope you enjoy your life, but this borders on being political.

I am in my mid 50s, and as I said an earlier post, I am fully aware of how the word was used in a deeply derogatory manner in the past.

 

It's not a matter of whether or not I am seeing profanic words, it was just that I found it a little troubling that this word in particular was considered a bad one, so to speak. I have been enjoying the conversation so that this spurred. 

 

And, to be honest, I can't remember the last time I've seen the word queer used in a derogatory manner. And I do mean for years. Of course this is my own personal experience

Edited August 8, 2023 by Scutt

[GM Crumpet]

As a gay man of the older generation queer was always used as a slur and an insult so it still sits uncomfortably when I see it even when it's not used in a negative way. Words evolve and things that were bad once are now acceptable, and words that were acceptable are now bad. And that's a me problem, not the problem of those people who took a negative word and made it a positive. 

 

A word that I've used all my life is gypsy. My family is of gypsy stock and still refers to the older generation with that term. My grandmother was the last to really identify as a gypsy and she told me several times she was a gypsy and proud of it, and to be proud of my heritage and never be ashamed of it. If you tried calling her anything else she would get really angry. She wasn't romani, she wasn't a traveller, she wasn't any of a dozen names people used, she was a gypsy. She had lost family members to the gas chambers and celebrated and mourned them.

 

Now of course it's a racial slur, never mind that the people of that heritage outside the US actively use the word and are fiercely proud of it. I'm proud of it. I know my heritage and loved my grandmother with all my heart. The struggles she went through and the stories she told are treasures beyond price. 

 

But back to the topic at hand, that's why we have a profanity filter. For those who aren't offended by words it can be turned off. For those who find it offensive or have smaller children who love to watch it keeps the naughty words a parent doesn't want to have to explain hidden. 

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, honoroit said:

if so, what drives the desire to?

Because, at their base, humans are ***holes

[Panache]

2 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

But back to the topic at hand, that's why we have a profanity filter. For those who aren't offended by words it can be turned off. For those who find it offensive or have smaller children who love to watch it keeps the naughty words a parent doesn't want to have to explain hidden. 

 

I think the issue here, or at least as I understood it in the OP, is that including 'queer' in your filter sends a message to folks who identify as queer that their preferred descriptor is a slur. 

[Scutt]

3 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

As a gay man of the older generation queer was always used as a slur and an insult so it still sits uncomfortably when I see it even when it's not used in a negative way. Words evolve and things that were bad once are now acceptable, and words that were acceptable are now bad. And that's a me problem, not the problem of those people who took a negative word and made it a positive. 

 

A word that I've used all my life is gypsy. My family is of gypsy stock and still refers to the older generation with that term. My grandmother was the last to really identify as a gypsy and she told me several times she was a gypsy and proud of it, and to be proud of my heritage and never be ashamed of it. If you tried calling her anything else she would get really angry. She wasn't romani, she wasn't a traveller, she wasn't any of a dozen names people used, she was a gypsy. She had lost family members to the gas chambers and celebrated and mourned them.

 

Now of course it's a racial slur, never mind that the people of that heritage outside the US actively use the word and are fiercely proud of it. I'm proud of it. I know my heritage and loved my grandmother with all my heart. The struggles she went through and the stories she told are treasures beyond price. 

 

But back to the topic at hand, that's why we have a profanity filter. For those who aren't offended by words it can be turned off. For those who find it offensive or have smaller children who love to watch it keeps the naughty words a parent doesn't want to have to explain hidden. 

Thanks for sharing that.  I was not expecting this level of response, but have been greatly appreciating the responses and thoughts. It has given me some fresh perspectives, which I always appreciate. 

[UltraAlt]

4 hours ago, Scutt said:

And, to be honest, I can't remember the last time I've seen the word queer used in a derogatory manner. And I do mean for years. Of course this is my own personal experience

 

I agree with this as well.

I don't even know when I last heard any term for alternate sexual preferences used in a derogatory manner in real life/out on the streets/shopping, but I'm pretty much a hermit at this point.

 

This being said, sometimes it is greater to side with caution.

 

This gaming community is much more accepting of practically anything when compared to many gaming communities (and real life communities when it comes down to reality).

[Scutt]

1 minute ago, UltraAlt said:

 

This gaming community is much more accepting of practically anything when compared to many gaming communities (and real life communities when it comes down to reality).

And this is why I am so invested in it and will always come back. 

[UltraAlt]

4 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

Now of course it's a racial slur, never mind that the people of that heritage outside the US actively use the word and are fiercely proud of it.

 

I find this funny. 

If you looked up "Gypsy" on the internet just a couple of years ago, it said the exact opposite. I think I even found videos on youtube where Roma in America prefered the use of the term "Gypsy". 
It seems that it is becoming increasingly objectionable in America recently.

 

I just did a search to check what it is saying now if I search for "is gypsy a bad word in america".

Top of my search is: "Europeans used the word “gypsy” as a racial slur throughout these centuries to justify the discrimination and persecution of the Roma people."

 

"It is estimated that there are one million Romani people in the United States. They known as American Gypsies." - https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_Americans#:~:text=It is estimated that there,They known as American Gypsies.

 

I agree that there seems to be some rampant word "connotation" changes recently. 

Lately, some seem to be good at (actively) attempting to take control of words and altering their meanings.

 

 

4 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

But back to the topic at hand, that's why we have a profanity filter. For those who aren't offended by words it can be turned off. For those who find it offensive or have smaller children who love to watch it keeps the naughty words a parent doesn't want to have to explain hidden. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[honoroit]

4 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I find this funny. 

If you looked up "Gypsy" on the internet just a couple of years ago, it said the exact opposite. I think I even found videos on youtube where Roma in America prefered the use of the term "Gypsy". 
It seems that it is becoming increasingly objectionable in America recently.

 

I just did a search to check what it is saying now if I search for "is gypsy a bad word in america".

Top of my search is: "Europeans used the word “gypsy” as a racial slur throughout these centuries to justify the discrimination and persecution of the Roma people."

 

"It is estimated that there are one million Romani people in the United States. They known as American Gypsies." - https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_Americans#:~:text=It is estimated that there,They known as American Gypsies.

 

I agree that there seems to be some rampant word "connotation" changes recently. 

Lately, some seem to be good at (actively) attempting to take control of words and altering their meanings.

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

hilty-tilty (specifically) persecuted them. 

 

theres been / we're undergoing a resurgance of same-craft-idolatry of that, and its various awful visions, in the USA at least.

 

one must persist in stamping it out, keeping it vestigal. it remains an ugly, and festering, world wound.

[TheZag]

Even if the game calls it a profanity filter,  it filters a whole bunch of stuff that isnt profanity.  Most of that is things i prefer to not have to explain to my kids before a certain age.  A friend of the family had their 8 year old come home from another friends house and ask if her parents could explain some explicit things she heard but didnt understand.  Turns out an older child had 'the talk' and felt she could drop that info on anyone.  The game is rated teen, even if it isnt retail anymore, and the filter does a pretty good job at keeping chat in check.  Its easy to turn off for anyone that would like to have unfiltered chat.

 

[UltraAlt]

45 minutes ago, honoroit said:

hilty-tilty

 

What is this?

I do not know the meaning of this? I can't find a reference that makes sense when I do an internet search in it.

 

47 minutes ago, honoroit said:

one must persist in stamping it out, keeping it vestigal. it remains an ugly, and festering, world wound.

 

 Yeah, you really have me lost at this point.

Orwellian hojawhatza or Neo-Speak?

[honoroit]

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

 

What is this?

I do not know the meaning of this? I can't find a reference that makes sense when I do an internet search in it.

 

 

 Yeah, you really have me lost at this point.

Orwellian hojawhatza or Neo-Speak?

 

not a fan

 

 

[UltraAlt]

15 minutes ago, honoroit said:

 

 

 

 

[biostem]

14 minutes ago, honoroit said:

not a fan

Do you have an aversion to answering criticism clearly and concisely, or are you just unable to do so?

[honoroit]

28 minutes ago, biostem said:

Do you have an aversion to answering criticism clearly and concisely, or are you just unable to do so?

 

you're a smart fellow - I'm certain you can figure it.

 

point being: there's re-shelter from slurs and diminutive typifiers; because theres bad humans about a bit right now.

 

fueled on by populism, a bastardization of national pride, comporting themselves even so far as domestic terrorisms. (see jan6th assault on our nation, charlottesville riots, etc).

[GM Crumpet]

To expand on the filter issue. As a PG13 game it's assumed that people of that age and above are kind of used to a lot of the words in the filter and have been exposed to them at some point. People younger than that perhaps not. This is one of those games that really does appeal to a younger demographic and youngsters either want to play (which is wrong and we don't allow it and shhhh don't tell dad) or watch while their parents play. For parents it's an option they can turn on as certain words and concepts may arise that they don't want to have to explain to their little ones just yet. I still squirm in embarrassment on behalf of my parents for the times I asked them what certain words meant when I heard them 🙂  

 

 

[Scutt]

22 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

To expand on the filter issue. As a PG13 game it's assumed that people of that age and above are kind of used to a lot of the words in the filter and have been exposed to them at some point. People younger than that perhaps not. This is one of those games that really does appeal to a younger demographic and youngsters either want to play (which is wrong and we don't allow it and shhhh don't tell dad) or watch while their parents play. For parents it's an option they can turn on as certain words and concepts may arise that they don't want to have to explain to their little ones just yet. I still squirm in embarrassment on behalf of my parents for the times I asked them what certain words meant when I heard them 🙂  

 

 

I get all that, but this strays a bit from how "queer", in this context, is seen as a bad or "issue" word. Heck - LGBTQ? In an age where some folk are pushing to ban books, due to containing queer themes, you can see where it might just propagate it being "bad".  This is something I am just going to have to let go of and it will not diminish my experience in the game and with the community. I guess it's just leaving me a bit disappointed in the state of things. 

 

I am fully aware of this being a safe space - who am I to threaten anyone's cozy place in it? *grumble grumble*

[Captain Fabulous]

3 minutes ago, Scutt said:

I get all that, but this strays a bit from how "queer", in this context, is seen as a bad or "issue" word. Heck - LGBTQ? In an age where some folk are pushing to ban books, due to containing queer themes, you can see where it might just propagate it being "bad".  This is something I am just going to have to let go of and it will not diminish my experience in the game and with the community. I guess it's just leaving me a bit disappointed in the state of things. 

 

I am fully aware of this being a safe space - who am I to threaten anyone's cozy place in it? *grumble grumble*

 

9 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

As a gay man of the older generation queer was always used as a slur and an insult so it still sits uncomfortably when I see it even when it's not used in a negative way. Words evolve and things that were bad once are now acceptable, and words that were acceptable are now bad. And that's a me problem, not the problem of those people who took a negative word and made it a positive. 

 

A word that I've used all my life is gypsy. My family is of gypsy stock and still refers to the older generation with that term. My grandmother was the last to really identify as a gypsy and she told me several times she was a gypsy and proud of it, and to be proud of my heritage and never be ashamed of it. If you tried calling her anything else she would get really angry. She wasn't romani, she wasn't a traveller, she wasn't any of a dozen names people used, she was a gypsy. She had lost family members to the gas chambers and celebrated and mourned them.

 

Now of course it's a racial slur, never mind that the people of that heritage outside the US actively use the word and are fiercely proud of it. I'm proud of it. I know my heritage and loved my grandmother with all my heart. The struggles she went through and the stories she told are treasures beyond price. 

 

But back to the topic at hand, that's why we have a profanity filter. For those who aren't offended by words it can be turned off. For those who find it offensive or have smaller children who love to watch it keeps the naughty words a parent doesn't want to have to explain hidden. 

I'm also a gay man of an older generation when queer was absolutely a slur, I fully support removing the word from the profanity filter. But this absolutely should not give license for people to use it pejoratively in the game.

[Panache]

4 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

 

I'm also a gay man of an older generation when queer was absolutely a slur, I fully support removing the word from the profanity filter. But this absolutely should not give license for people to use it pejoratively in the game.

 

Right, which is what reporting is for. There are absolutely words that aren't filtered that, when combined, can be wildly hateful vitriol. The filter won't catch that. But filtering out words that are part of people's identity because they *might* be misused is a backwards policy.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Panache said:

There are absolutely words that aren't filtered that, when combined

You can't account for every permutation of words that may be offensive.  It is actually against the rules to bypass the filter via misspellings and the like.  That being said, we as mature adults can disable the filter and go on our merry way.  There's no need to remove any words from said profanity filter.  

[Scutt]

6 minutes ago, Panache said:

But filtering out words that are part of people's identity because they *might* be misused is a backwards policy

You put that far better than I could.