Full Procs vs. Limited Procs: A Pylon DPS Comparison

[Ston]

So here's another project I've been working on for awhile. I've been curious how ranged and melee sets would compare with each with different proc constraints. My hope was that the DPS ranking between sets would not vary much given different proc parameters.

 

As always, I don't claim to be an expert on each powerset and I could have made mistakes with the attack chains, but I ran them through my personal DPS calculator and tried to find the best for each. I used my best judgement for attack chains and proc placement but would be happy to re-run tests with any suggestions. I'll attach .zips with all the builds used.

Here's what I ended up with:

Selected Archetypes: Blaster and Brute

 

 

blaster_proc_tests.7z brute_proc_tests.7z

[Gobbledigook]

Super Strength really needs pool attacks to help it. As much as i like SS it is probably time for a change.

 

Battle Axe and AR, 2 of the recently revised sets are looking good. I have an AR/TA Blaster and a Invuln/BA Tanker that are both doing well.

 

Obvious weak sets that need a small overhaul...KM and Archery to name a couple.

 

Not a huge change in Rankings with 1 proc or many, for the Brute especially, but the average time/dps difference is quite large.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Gobbledigook

[arcane]

Not that you should redo anything, but the blaster proc chains could really use Char if you want to capture the current proc meta.

[Ston]

10 minutes ago, arcane said:

Not that you should redo anything, but the blaster proc chains could really use Char if you want to capture the current proc meta.

 

I didn't really want to capture the meta for these tests as much as I wanted to get some baseline comparisons between powersets using only their powers. But yeah throwing Char in could definitely help some of the weaker sets, like Gloom and Cross Punch would for melee sets.

[Ston]

5 minutes ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Is there a reason for capping the number of procs at 4 per power? The reason for asking is that it's not that uncommon to use the kismet unique +to hit IO and tactics or other to hit boosting powers to reduce or eliminate the need for accuracy in powers. If the number of procs is raised to the ceiling of whatever any given power will accept then powers that can take more than four procs might shine a bit more. 

 

Here's one possible example, using dehydrate ...

 

generic damage IO, lvl 50, boosted 5 times

touch of lady grey neg damage proc IO

touch of the nictus neg damage proc IO

impeded swiftness smashing damage proc IO

Ice Mistral torment cold damage proc IO

Achilles heel -res proc IO

 

... for a baseline of over 200 DPS with a damage alpha incarnate and without any further damage buffing from any other source. The -res proc should go off about 43% of the time on dehydrate with this slotting as long as the alpha incarnate doesn't boost recharge. Thus, dehydrate is likely to buff all single target damage by a noticeable amount with -res procs. 

This slotting doesn't transform dehydrate into a top tier damage power. But, the contribution of dehydrate to water blast damage has a good chance of being higher than if a ceiling of four procs per power is set in place.  

Whether the cap of four proc IOs per power is reconsidered or not, though, this is still helpful information and thank you very much for providing it. 

The intention was to leave room for some set bonuses and damage enhancing, but after taking another look, some powers would benefit more from additional procs. For most blaster attacks, I used 3pc Thunderstrike (acc/dam + dam/end + acc/dam/end) + 3 procs.

Without any other buffs/bonuses, this slotting has Dehydrate at 155 DPA (2 damage procs + Achilles -res). 

If I were to change the slotting to 3 damage procs + Achilles and two lvl 53 Acc/Dam HOs, the DPA goes up to 168.9.

The tradeoff between damage slotting and procs isn't as impactful on Blasters as it would be for Brutes, but this is definitely something I should revisit in the tests. There are only a handful of ranged attacks that can take 4 procs anyway, so I'll go through and re-run some tests with those.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

I ended up hiding the post to which you responded, but perhaps I shouldn't have done that. A bit of "napkin math" follows for the slotting given in the post you quoted ...

 

Dehydrate damage / listed cast time = DPS

341.4 / 1.87 = 182.6 DPS with zero buffs from other sources and assuming no -res procs ever apply to a hit with dehydrate 

 

That compares fairly well with 155 DPS, being about 27 DPS or 18% higher. It probably doesn't move water blast up in the rankings, in the end. But, the gap does close at least a little.

[Bionic_Flea]

Thanks again for taking the time to run these tests and share your results.  I know it takes a lot of time and effort and it is appreciated.

[Without_Pause]

I know Shockwave is great DPA for Claws, but it isn't even needed for a ST attack chain. 

[Ston]

5 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

I know Shockwave is great DPA for Claws, but it isn't even needed for a ST attack chain. 

It isn't needed, but with the -res from Annihilation, it is more valuable to have in the chain than Swipe or Strike. Eviscerate would be another option but the long animation is a DPS loss. 

[DarknessEternal]

Intuition Radial as alpha?

[Ston]

9 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said:

Intuition Radial as alpha?

 

The +damage & +range is usually better for Blasters than the buffs from Musculature. The +range doesn't make a difference in this test, but gonna get +33% damage with either choice. I normally don't use the +45% Musculature power.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Ston

[Unclemarty]

Hey cool data.

 

Were “build up” type powers used for this test? 

For example for SS was rage used? Or double stacked?

[Ston]

36 minutes ago, Unclemarty said:

Hey cool data.

 

Were “build up” type powers used for this test? 

For example for SS was rage used? Or double stacked?

Yes, Upshot & Aim used whenever they were up for Blasters. And any "Build Up" type powers were used for Brutes whenever they were up. For Super Strength, I tried both but decided to single-stack Rage, as that gave the best results.

[honoroit]

when are they fixing archery? i hope its soon.

 

the redraw happens, which locks you, even though damage from something like arrow cone hits shortly before the draw is complete.

 

it plays hell with secondary power execution delay, which gets clunky.  was messing on a corruptor and was super annoying. likely the same on a blaster with 2ndary melees etc.

 

i cant make pittoo properly... so it really is a high priority fix!

 

 

[Hedgefund]

Poor Kin melee.  Billed as an ST specialist it's DFL, at least for the heavy proc attacks and almost DFL for single proc.  

 

I also offer thanks, I loves to see me some empirical data.

[Without_Pause]

22 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

Poor Kin melee.  Billed as an ST specialist it's DFL, at least for the heavy proc attacks and almost DFL for single proc.  

 

I also offer thanks, I loves to see me some empirical data.

Oddly enough its AoE is worse.

[User]

And yet procced out kin melee beats out most single proc melee power sets. Procs are ridiculously strong.

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, User said:

And yet procced out kin melee beats out most single proc melee power sets. Procs are ridiculously strong.

A fully procced out build is also sacrificing durability. 

[arcane]

12 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

A fully procced out build is also sacrificing durability. 

True, but building for durability isn’t even the meta in the hardest content in the game because Barrier is so good, so procsters hardly care.

[Without_Pause]

22 hours ago, arcane said:

True, but building for durability isn’t even the meta in the hardest content in the game because Barrier is so good, so procsters hardly care.

Oddly enough I've never taken it, and it feels like it is on the bottom of the list of things I would take. Maybe someday I'll grab it as a secondary option and see if I like it better. 

[tidge]

On 9/11/2023 at 6:10 PM, Without_Pause said:

Oddly enough its AoE is worse.

[Shred Monkey]

That 371 DPS with limited proc's on beam rifle is darn impressive you consider it can do that from full range with little to no sacrifice of other build aspects.