EMP Arrow

[TimesSeven]

With the recent nerf to the EMP arrow, I'm wondering if it's even worth having in my arsenal. 

 

Now the Hold only happens to electronic enemies only. Since the overwhelming majority of enemies in the game are non-mechanical, I just don't see a reason to have it -- especially with Illusion. 

 

Thoughts?

[Luminara]

38 minutes ago, TimesSeven said:

Thoughts?

 

It was buffed significantly, not nerfed, and the Hold isn't restricted to robots.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_buff.trick_arrow.emp_arrow&at=controller

 

You really should verify things before angryposting.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I don't think I've spent a lot of time on Trick Arrow above lvl 20 or so since they revamped it, and I'm primarily a melee character type.  I think that my pre-revamp 50 skipped EMP arrow to be honest.  But based on what I see post-revamp, it has been geared as both a team buff power than an enemy debuff power.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=redirects.trick_arrow.emp_arrow&at=defender

 

team protection from status effects, endurance/recovery debuffs, 15% damage resistance all except toxic

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=redirects.trick_arrow.emp_arrow_burst&at=defender

 

enemy endurance drain, regeneration debuff, all kinds of debuff, damage, looks like mag 3 hold to all (holds lts) and a chance for mag 4 hold (holds bosses) if electronic.

 

Oh yes, it is indeed making the cut from here on out.

[TimesSeven]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

It was buffed significantly, not nerfed, and the Hold isn't restricted to robots.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_buff.trick_arrow.emp_arrow&at=controller

 

You really should verify things before angryposting.

 

With much respect to you knowledge, that definitely wasn't angry posting.  What they did to glue arrow is DEFINITELY angry posting. 

 

I'm just going by the description that I see in game.

 

 

Doesn't that say, "To electronic targets only"?  I was just asking a question based on the description I read. 

 

 

 

 

 

[TimesSeven]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I don't think I've spent a lot of time on Trick Arrow above lvl 20 or so since they revamped it, and I'm primarily a melee character type.  I think that my pre-revamp 50 skipped EMP arrow to be honest.  But based on what I see post-revamp, it has been geared as both a team buff power than an enemy debuff power.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=redirects.trick_arrow.emp_arrow&at=defender

 

team protection from status effects, endurance/recovery debuffs, 15% damage resistance all except toxic

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=redirects.trick_arrow.emp_arrow_burst&at=defender

 

enemy endurance drain, regeneration debuff, all kinds of debuff, damage, looks like mag 3 hold to all (holds lts) and a chance for mag 4 hold (holds bosses) if electronic.

 

Oh yes, it is indeed making the cut from here on out.

 

Okay, so is the description saying that it's a mag 4 hold for electronic targets? That would make sense. 

I was reading the description verbatim from the game and since it didn't mention mag holds in the power description for human non-electronic targets  I thought it might not apply. I'm getting my TA character back in fighting shape and I was trying to figure out what was what.  It didn't seem to be holding my enemies for as long as I thought. 

 

Thanks for the input. 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by TimesSeven

[roleki]

 

2 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

 

With much respect to you knowledge, that definitely wasn't angry posting.  What they did to glue arrow is DEFINITELY angry posting. 

 

I'm just going by the description that I see in game.

 

 

Doesn't that say, "To electronic targets only"?  I was just asking a question based on the description I read. 

 

 

 

 

 

While there's nothing in-game to indicate the "Detailed Info" of a power could be incorrect, it's probably a good rule-of-thumb to use CoD to verify the exact effects and abilities of a given power.  It's inconvenient and sometimes a convoluted process to follow all the various links, but it's a lot more reliable a source than the in-game reference.

That said, in my opinion EMP Arrow is better on paper than in practice; if you make it to a scenario where it's worth actually using EMP Arrow, you likely don't need to use it. 

 

ETA: Tip of the cap to whatever code monkey invented the word 'adversively' here.

Edited November 19, 2023 by roleki

[WumpusRat]

2 hours ago, roleki said:

That said, in my opinion EMP Arrow is better on paper than in practice; if you make it to a scenario where it's worth actually using EMP Arrow, you likely don't need to use it. 

I would argue that this isn't really true.

 

On my beast/TA mastermind, EMP Arrow was a very important part of my arsenal against EBs and AVs. Without it, I have zero status protection (other than immobilize, thanks to CJ), and my pets' resists are fairly low, even with all the auras. With it, my pets' damage resistance would get pushed up to the point that it took a couple of hits to drop the tier-1's, giving me time to save them. And since my only healing was a single-target Aid Other, that extra time makes all the difference. Additionally, the status protection means that I can keep using powers without fear of being locked down and having to pop breakfrees (assuming I still have some left) to try and avoid a wipe of my pets and myself. 

 

It's not something that you need in every fight, but when you do need it, it's definitely a "thank god I have this" power.

[kelika2]

while i feel that EMP arrow has a small radius in comparison to its recharge time its strong.  but that said i dont take it to how mobile this game is and sitting around in a corner fighting an AV is sparse

[Mezmera]

EMP Arrow is phenomenal.  It's a very nice large area buff for you and your teammates giving high mez resistance, some resistance to damage and resistance to endurance drains. 

 

Then there's the debuff it does which is wild.  You get a mag 4 hold on all targets which there's a debuff in there that lowers targets resistances to holds so that makes this hold and Ice Arrow's hold much more potent.  The hold applies to all targets, only the additional damage portion applies to electrical targets.  EMP Arrow also nets you -1000% regen along with several other reverse power boosting effects. 

 

This arrow is very fancy. All you have to do is make sure its enhanced well for recharge so that it travels well and you can maximize the debuffing.  

Edited November 19, 2023 by Mezmera

[KC4800]

My Illusion/TA Controller is my go to for hard content. The only arrow I don't use is flash arrow. Emp Arrow is very useful, even after you obtain incarnate status protection.

[Yomo Kimyata]

14 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

Okay, so is the description saying that it's a mag 4 hold for electronic targets? That would make sense. 

 

I read it as a mad 3 hold with a 50% chance for mag 4 hold for electronic enemies, but I mess up reading City of Data (all hail Uberguy) sometimes.

 

I see the buff of this to be far more valuable to me and my style of play than the debuff (although the debuff is very good).  I'm setting up a safe zone for me (because I mostly solo).  I don't have to worry about break frees or Clarion or Rune of protection for control resistance.  The damage resistance, although unenhanceable, is very nice and will get me to the 75% cap in a few areas.  This enables me to spend my power choices and slots in other areas.

[TimesSeven]

11 hours ago, roleki said:

While there's nothing in-game to indicate the "Detailed Info" of a power could be incorrect, it's probably a good rule-of-thumb to use CoD to verify the exact effects and abilities of a given power.  It's inconvenient and sometimes a convoluted process to follow all the various links, but it's a lot more reliable a source than the in-game reference.
 

 

ETA: Tip of the cap to whatever code monkey invented the word 'adversively' here.

 

I get it, but dang... I hate to have COD open to verify the stats AND have the wiki open to verify if a mission is a kill all or not a kill all AND... wow, are we playing Dungeons and Dragons? I feel like I need to have a guide to use the guide. I get it, I really do... old game that's not supported as thoroughly and regularly. 

 

And a big LOL on you noticing the new word. 🙂  I thought it was funny too. 

 

Thanks for the assist. Appreciated. 

[TimesSeven]

2 hours ago, KC4800 said:

My Illusion/TA Controller is my go to for hard content. The only arrow I don't use is flash arrow. Emp Arrow is very useful, even after you obtain incarnate status protection.

 

Really? That's interesting, I'd love to see your build. I keep Flash going because my Phantasm will die in a second if I don't have SOMETHING protecting his stupid butt. I used to use glue arrow, but after some recent changes, I absolutely abandoned it. I have a complete RANT about the ineffectiveness of glue arrow now that enemies can just jump past it. Even Luminara agreed that the ability is lackluster after the "upgrade."

 

Going to replace it with Poison Arrow, which skipped, and make PA an AoE with procs. Not worried about the -recharge of glue. 

 

Good to know! Appreciate it.

[TimesSeven]

8 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

I would argue that this isn't really true.

 

On my beast/TA mastermind, EMP Arrow was a very important part of my arsenal against EBs and AVs. Without it, I have zero status protection (other than immobilize, thanks to CJ), and my pets' resists are fairly low, even with all the auras. With it, my pets' damage resistance would get pushed up to the point that it took a couple of hits to drop the tier-1's, giving me time to save them. And since my only healing was a single-target Aid Other, that extra time makes all the difference. Additionally, the status protection means that I can keep using powers without fear of being locked down and having to pop breakfrees (assuming I still have some left) to try and avoid a wipe of my pets and myself. 

 

It's not something that you need in every fight, but when you do need it, it's definitely a "thank god I have this" power.

 

I can see this being playstyle. As an Ill/TA, the illusion have their own taunt and are indestructible, so I really could get by without it. For my bots/TA, it's a must. I could see how an MM would have this and oil slick as their bread and butter. Absolutely.

[Luminara]

26 minutes ago, TimesSeven said:

are we playing Dungeons and Dragons?

 

No.  We're playing Champions.

 

The alpha iteration of City of Heroes was based entirely on the Champions Hero system.  The design goal was to bring the tabletop RPG into the digital age.  Cryptic couldn't acquire the license, though, so they created their own IP, but moved forward with the same design goal.  They made only the necessary changes to make the game playable (archetypes) and avoid an IP infringement lawsuit.

[TimesSeven]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

No.  We're playing Champions.

 

The alpha iteration of City of Heroes was based entirely on the Champions Hero system.  The design goal was to bring the tabletop RPG into the digital age.  Cryptic couldn't acquire the license, though, so they created their own IP, but moved forward with the same design goal.  They made only the necessary changes to make the game playable (archetypes) and avoid an IP infringement lawsuit.

 

I know, I was actually being facetious.  Loved playing Champions back in the day. 

 

I was referring to needing a separate guide for everything, like D&D did.  You had to have a bestiary, a rules guide, the updated guide, a map guide,  the "psychic companion" --- you needed separate guides just to play the game. It was fun, but as I said earlier, I didn't have to expect that from CoH.  Now I do. 

[Uun]

5 hours ago, KC4800 said:

The only arrow I don't use is flash arrow.

Flash Arrow is one of the best tohit debuffs in the game. Fully enhanced on a controller it provides 23.4%, half of which is unresistable. The -perception is also unresistable.

 

2 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

I used to use glue arrow, but after some recent changes, I absolutely abandoned it. I have a complete RANT about the ineffectiveness of glue arrow now that enemies can just jump past it.

The "recent" changes to Glue Arrow occurred 3 years ago. They increased the -recharge and power duration and changed it from targeted to location based. The last change before that was in I7 (2006) when the -fly was added and the recharge was reduced. There have been no changes to the jump height debuff since the set was introduced.

[Luminara]

13 minutes ago, Uun said:

Flash Arrow is one of the best tohit debuffs in the game. Fully enhanced on a controller it provides 23.4%, half of which is unresistable. The -perception is also unresistable.

 

Illusion doesn't need -Perception or -ToHit for solo play.  Superior Invisibility doesn't suppress unless you interact with an objective, and it doesn't matter if PA is hit or not.

 

It's a far more applicable power for defenders/corruptors/masterminds, most controllers can skip it or mule it.  I'd respec out of it on my Ill/TA and Grav/TA, but 6.25% +Recharge at 4 slots is reason enough to keep it.

[TimesSeven]

What I like best about Flash Arrow is that on REAL stealth missions -- not the "click the glowie and kill everyone in the room" is that Flash Arrow allows you to click on the glowie RIGHT IN FRONT of the mobs and they never notice. Man, I LOVE that.  I've snuck my way through plenty missions doing that. 

 

Then un-apply SI and reapply it to regain the effect.  Better than a stalker in that regard.  I keep SI to mule LotG Recharge and to do the click/unclick buff. I can go through entire missions with multiple glowies without ever being seen. 🙂 

[TimesSeven]

5 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

No.  We're playing Champions.

 

The alpha iteration of City of Heroes was based entirely on the Champions Hero system.  The design goal was to bring the tabletop RPG into the digital age.  Cryptic couldn't acquire the license, though, so they created their own IP, but moved forward with the same design goal.  They made only the necessary changes to make the game playable (archetypes) and avoid an IP infringement lawsuit.

 

So THAT was the reason why CoH is so unlike Champions! Man, I really would have love putting numbers to stats instead. 

 

Thanks for the info!

 

[KC4800]

14 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

What I like best about Flash Arrow is that on REAL stealth missions -- not the "click the glowie and kill everyone in the room" is that Flash Arrow allows you to click on the glowie RIGHT IN FRONT of the mobs and they never notice. Man, I LOVE that.  I've snuck my way through plenty missions doing that. 

 

Then un-apply SI and reapply it to regain the effect.  Better than a stalker in that regard.  I keep SI to mule LotG Recharge and to do the click/unclick buff. I can go through entire missions with multiple glowies without ever being seen. 🙂 

Then you should keep it, if you have a use for I, absolutely. I personally don't do this, on any character (even a stalker). I don't use glue arrow much, mainly when I exemplar down. Flash Arrow I have no need for as I am Illusion and I want PA seen, even by multiple groups.

[roleki]

On 11/19/2023 at 2:27 AM, WumpusRat said:

I would argue that this isn't really true.

 

On my beast/TA mastermind, EMP Arrow was a very important part of my arsenal against EBs and AVs. Without it, I have zero status protection (other than immobilize, thanks to CJ), and my pets' resists are fairly low, even with all the auras. With it, my pets' damage resistance would get pushed up to the point that it took a couple of hits to drop the tier-1's, giving me time to save them. And since my only healing was a single-target Aid Other, that extra time makes all the difference. Additionally, the status protection means that I can keep using powers without fear of being locked down and having to pop breakfrees (assuming I still have some left) to try and avoid a wipe of my pets and myself. 

 

It's not something that you need in every fight, but when you do need it, it's definitely a "thank god I have this" power.

 

I'm not saying EMP Arrow is bad, and it's great that you've found a use for it, but come on, it's not like your TA characters were out there floundering around waiting for EMP Arrow to come along and save the build.  As a T9, it's no Fulcrum Shift, but it's no Time Bomb either.  It's Moment of Glory, tops. 

 

I submit that if you're cutting ANY TA power besides EMP Arrow, then yeah, you'll probably need EMP Arrow.  TA was a perfectly cromulent set before HC came and gave it a belly rub, but it will never perform to its full capability for people who skip arrows. 

 

Take Flash Arrow for example - people skip that all the time, in many cases probably so they can shoe-horn Maneuvers into their build. The thing is, in the combat math particular to this game, -ToHit is essentially +Def(All) given that Defense and ToHit modifiers affect the same variable in the hit check equation.  It's not 1:1 because of resistance and whatnot, but half of Flash Arrow's -ToHit is... irresistable(?) so you COULD read Flash Arrow as "Ranged (Targeted AoE) Ally +5.625 Def(All) for 60s" and in that light, it seems kind of silly to skip it.  While not as drastic, Glue Arrow, PGA, and Acid Arrow all play a significant role in how the set performs, and I would never skip any of them.

 

21 hours ago, TimesSeven said:

 

I get it, but dang... I hate to have COD open to verify the stats AND have the wiki open to verify if a mission is a kill all or not a kill all AND... wow, are we playing Dungeons and Dragons? I feel like I need to have a guide to use the guide. I get it, I really do... old game that's not supported as thoroughly and regularly. 

 

And a big LOL on you noticing the new word. 🙂  I thought it was funny too. 

 

Thanks for the assist. Appreciated. 

 

It seems a pain, but really CoD should cover a good 90% of what you're looking for. Just, don't rely on numbers from Mids.  It's a great tool, but unless you have it *just so* the numbers will always be off a bit.

[laudwic]

On 11/19/2023 at 8:34 AM, KC4800 said:

My Illusion/TA Controller is my go to for hard content. The only arrow I don't use is flash arrow. Emp Arrow is very useful, even after you obtain incarnate status protection.

 

My God Man, Flash Arrow is AMAZING, you should never skip it! 

 

You can fire it before combat, and it does not agro or alert enemies AND it gives a very nice to-hit debuff.

 

I have a TA/Storm Defender - between Flash and Storm Cell, I have a great to-hit Debuff before I ever attack or gain aggro, and then, when I do attack, add in Incarnate - Interface - Diamagnetic to all my attacks to give more to-hit debuff, my TA/Storm is very good at taking on large groups of enemies all by herself without the need of the Fighting pool defenses.  It is the only character that I made a combat log channel just to watch to-hit numbers and laugh.  I may not defeat large groups of enemies as quickly as a blaster, but when they can't hit me it really doesn't matter.

 

As for EMP - I like the power, I have it on my TA/Storm Def, Ill/TA Controller, and Ninja/TA Mastermind - I find I use it more as a 'Oh, Bleep' power when I get ambushed or another group joins in.  It is great for resisting status effects, the hold works as any other group hold, and the additional defense is a plus.  TA is such an amazing set, it is hard to skip anything.   

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

Well flash arrow gives a nice perception debuff if you have use for it, I could see an Ill/TA not needing the perception debuff due to Superior Invis.

 

The tohitdebuff is nice given that half of it ignores resistance, so you only have to worry about half of the debuffs getting resisted. Now if you're solo and already have stacked enough defense to floor your targets chance to hit, it's less needed. So depending on an individual's build  and playstyle the need of flash arrow is not always required.

 

That said I have 4 trick arrow toons as I love the set, and I typically take it, even though I usually softcap my defenses, I pug a lot so I figure my single serving teammates might benefit from the tohitdebuff/perception debuff more than me.

[TimesSeven]

So ya’ll folks still use glue arrow? I went on a rant in a different post after noticing the enemies skipping through it unfazed. They literally stop right before the patch starts, and hop right through it without a problem. That crap drives me crazy. Never noticed enemies doing this before.
 

After finding out that the -50000% jumping height did NOTHING in-game, I dropped it immediately.
 

Loving everyone’s take on TA. Really find this interesting as I’ve encounter very few people playing it. Kudos to you all!