Heavy Pistol powerset concept

[JebidiahBeetus]

Hello Homecoming forums, it's been a hot minute since I came around these here parts and I wanted to share something i've been aching for since I bought the DVD edition of CoH an eternity ago. While I migrated to Champions Online after the shutdown Paragon City was destroyed by Rikti to get my superhero fix, neither game has indulged my need for a certain play style. Specifically, there is no power set tailored towards a heavy pistol.

First a little music to set the mood:
 

Character concepts like a hardboiled detective, loose-cannon cop, or suburban vigilante can't be fully realized due to the only options for guns in both games are either Rambo or The Matrix. The CoH dev team was nice enough to give us a Model 29 as a pistol skin option, but there is no power set to pair with it.



Our current pistol power set is basically the movie Equilibrium with spins, flips, cartwheels and acrobatics. What we need is a power set with single, heavy booming shots that knock enemies backwards with the force of the impact.



 Not one, but two movie protagonists have chosen the Model 29 as their primary weapon of choice. What I propose is we create a power set to more accurately suit our gritty gun-toting fatalists who patrol the mean streets of Paragon City.



Many unlucky thugs, goons, ruffians and blaggards would meet their maker after staring down the barrel of your trusty Roscoe.



Here's how I picture the power set progression tree:
 

Power 1: Gut Shot
Your character fires a single round into the enemy's breadbasket for Medium damage.

Power 2: Chin Check
A meaty left handed punch with a chance to Stagger enemies for Medium damage.

Power 3: Heavy Shot
You fire a single round into the enemy's chest, chance to Knockback for Medium damage.

Power 4: Hard Boiled
A resistance buff that increases durability for a short time.

Power 5: Empty Pistol
A cone attack that hits multiple enemies for Medium damage.

Power 6: Sweeping Punch
A left handed melee punch cone attack that hits multiple enemies for Medium damage.
Could use a mirrored version of the existing power to ensure the pistol stays in the right hand.

Power 7: Dodge This
A single hard-hitting round with a high chance to Knockback for High damage.
If I recall correctly, Banished Pantheon has a similar attack where the enemy raises a musket and fires one shot that knocks the player backwards. The animation could be recycled for this by using that power. Would play sound effect of a hammer being cocked back followed by a loud BOOM.

Power 8: Feelin' Lucky
A ToHit buff that increases accuracy and chance to hit for a short time.

Power 9: Powderkeg Punch
A hail Mary baseball pitch style left handed punch that starts behind the knee and ends in the nosebleed section, applies Stagger and Knockup for Extreme damage.

https://i.imgur.com/5almEP1.mp4

The sound effects for Dual Pistols sounds like popcorn, to distinguish this power set from that one we should use classic movie gunshot sound effects like the ones featured in this video, two to three sounds per attack power would help prevent it from sounding repetitive:

I hope you enjoyed this post, feel free to comment with suggestions, ideas, or anything else you'd like to share regarding this concept. One day i'll get to bring my detective and vigilante characters to life with a fitting power set for each of them.



(Apparently AI thinks The Rock should have been the star of Death Wish, which heck yes he should have.)
 

[SupaFreak]

My main is Dual Pistols / Martial Combat Blaster.  Started originally as Assault Rifle / Devices on Live.  Always wanted primary to be a "Gun Melee" and return back to Devices secondary.  Something along the lines of this would have me rerolling him yet again.

[General Idiot]

Seems like an assault set given all the melee attacks and honestly I'd love an assault set with a single pistol for ranged and punching with the other hand for melee. But it does beg the question of what control set could possibly pair with it for your stated concept goal since assault sets are only available to dominators.

 

For the kind of concept you're aiming for it might be better to create a pistol power pool that's just the pistol attacks, or personally I'd make it a ranged version of the fighting pool with three pistol attacks and two defensive powers akin to tough and weave. Though those would likely need to be mutually exclusive with the fighting pool for balance. But then you could add such a pool to a melee AT and have exactly your concept rather than having to fit control powers in somehow. And it could be used for other concepts too, like the military types with assault rifles carrying a sidearm.

[biostem]

Please don't insert so many images before getting to your point.  Most people here are already familiar with the characters/images you posted.  That being said, I and many others have indeed suggested a more "business-like" single pistol blast set.  I'd rather not have melee attacks included, though, unless you were specifically going for an assault or manipulation set.  Beyond that, yes, a single pistol set would be awesome!

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, General Idiot said:

Seems like an assault set given all the melee attacks and honestly I'd love an assault set with a single pistol for ranged and punching with the other hand for melee. But it does beg the question of what control set could possibly pair with it for your stated concept goal since assault sets are only available to dominators.

 

For the kind of concept you're aiming for it might be better to create a pistol power pool that's just the pistol attacks, or personally I'd make it a ranged version of the fighting pool with three pistol attacks and two defensive powers akin to tough and weave. Though those would likely need to be mutually exclusive with the fighting pool for balance. But then you could add such a pool to a melee AT and have exactly your concept rather than having to fit control powers in somehow. And it could be used for other concepts too, like the military types with assault rifles carrying a sidearm.

Yeah, the proposed set is definitely a Dominator's Assault secondary. If that is what the author is after? Then it works.

 

56 minutes ago, biostem said:

Please don't insert so many images before getting to your point.

Wholehearted agreement. The images do so much more to keep me from understanding the OP than it does to help. I didn't even realize there was a set actually presented until @General Idiot's post made me go back and re-read it. Just got flustered near the bottom and abandoned the thread.

[JebidiahBeetus]

13 hours ago, General Idiot said:

Seems like an assault set given all the melee attacks and honestly I'd love an assault set with a single pistol for ranged and punching with the other hand for melee. But it does beg the question of what control set could possibly pair with it for your stated concept goal since assault sets are only available to dominators.

 

For the kind of concept you're aiming for it might be better to create a pistol power pool that's just the pistol attacks, or personally I'd make it a ranged version of the fighting pool with three pistol attacks and two defensive powers akin to tough and weave. Though those would likely need to be mutually exclusive with the fighting pool for balance. But then you could add such a pool to a melee AT and have exactly your concept rather than having to fit control powers in somehow. And it could be used for other concepts too, like the military types with assault rifles carrying a sidearm.

I wasn't specifically calling for control as a secondary effect, but this power set could most likely make use of Stagger and Knocks as a form of soft control. I don't want it to be a power pool because I intend for it to be a primary power set, and because we can already use devices to mimic a power pool anyway. You can buy a pistol and Statesman Slugger baseball bat and other weapons if you wanted to add that theme to your character concept.
 

12 hours ago, biostem said:

Please don't insert so many images before getting to your point.  Most people here are already familiar with the characters/images you posted.  That being said, I and many others have indeed suggested a more "business-like" single pistol blast set.  I'd rather not have melee attacks included, though, unless you were specifically going for an assault or manipulation set.  Beyond that, yes, a single pistol set would be awesome!

The purpose of the images and music is to help set the mood for the theme and to give a visual representation of existing characters who would use this power set if it were created. The Imgur link I shared (but couldn't embed) is a clip of Dick Tracy punching various goons to support the justification for adding melee attacks in the power set. But if we wanted pistol attacks only, then I suppose three good substitutes could be:

Pistol Bash
An already existing power that Stuns an enemy in melee range.

Knee Shot
A ranged version of the Knee Strike power in the Street Justice set, would Immobilize the target allowing you to get outside of melee range and create some distance.

Aimed Shot
Another already existing power, the character would take a few seconds to aim and fire one long ranged hard hitting shot for High/Extreme damage.

 

16 hours ago, SupaFreak said:

My main is Dual Pistols / Martial Combat Blaster.  Started originally as Assault Rifle / Devices on Live.  Always wanted primary to be a "Gun Melee" and return back to Devices secondary.  Something along the lines of this would have me rerolling him yet again.

You probably could create something like that in Champions Online since a Freeform character allows you to mix and match whatever powers you want, but the downside is if you take too many different powers you miss out on benefits that earlier powers can provide you, so you'll never be as effective as if you picked only one power set. Sadly unless our detective/private eye characters are super powered or from The Matrix, there isn't a fitting power set to match the theme. I like that the CoH team is recycling existing powers for us to use, i've asked the CO devs for years to do the same thing but they are not receptive to these requests. Lots of enemy characters have attack powers we don't have access to much to my chagrin. I have a number of heroes that I don't play or level simply because there isn't a power set I like for them, so they exist for role play purposes only.

[Frozen Burn]

I like the idea and concept, except a Ranged set would not have the melee powers in it - they would be for a Blaster Secondary.  So, you'll have to come up alternate powers for half your set so far.   You've suggested 4 ranged powers.  Need at least 3 more + a nuke to be on par with other blast sets (9th power is generally Aim).   

 

You suggested an Aim power, but DP doesn't have Aim and has Swap Ammo instead - I am fine with giving Aim to this set instead as many miss their Aim power in DP.  But just highlighting as you consider coming up with more ranged attacks for a ranged set.  

 

Also, one ranged power is typically a Mez of some sort, so perhaps a cranial shot that stuns could be one.

 

Most blast sets have at least 2 AOEs (cone and targeted AOE, and sometimes more than 2) + their nuke.  You offered up the cone - what would the other(s) be?

 

But what is REALLY missing from your suggestion is the T9 "nuke" that all blast sets have.  What would it be?  Hail of Bullets from DP, you can at least "buy" into it even with revolvers as that would be 12 shots affecting 16 foes (maybe some went through a couple).  But with a single pistol, you only have 6 shots (have to consider the revolver costume pieces over the semi-autos, uzis, etc) - how is it going to affect 16 foes?  Do we really have to buy into 6 rounds going through all those people to affect 16 foes??  ...Maybe.  Maybe not.  It would certainly have to be another empty gun cone and that seems repetitive to the standard cone you've already offered up.   

 

Again, I like the idea and concept, but there needs to be more ranged powers, no melee (save those ideas to create a blaster secondary set), and then figure out what a nuke would be.  

[Rudra]

If it is supposed to be an Assault set (Dominator secondary), it is fine as is. If it is a Blast set (Blaster primary), then it needs some serious changes. Keeping in mind what @Frozen Burn pointed out, an option could be as follows:

 

T1: Gut Shot (not sure why you would shoot someone in the gut instead of the chest, but whatever) Damage would be light or minor as the T1.

T2: Heavy Shot

T3: Suppressive Fire (Cone attack)

T4: Grazing Shot (ST light or minor damage attack with Stun effect)

T5: Feeling Lucky (Except it also gets a slight damage buff component)

T6: Dodge This

T7: Focused Shot (edit: or Far Shot) (Snipe attack)

T8: Pistol-Fired Grenade (TAoE attack. Place holder for someone to come up with a better idea) (edit yet again: If kept, would attach and then fire a grenade)

T9: Empty Pistol (Cone nuke)

 

Yes, when it comes to revolvers, Empty Pistol is going to be weird, but it also wouldn't be the 1st time in Hollywood, cartoons/anime, or comics that someone fired more shots than their weapon should be capable of. (They just give different reasons why it happens.)

 

Edit again: And if you want punches and bats for the character? Then draft a Brawler/Pugilist secondary set for Blasters to complete the theme.

Edited January 24 by Rudra

[JebidiahBeetus]

2 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

Most blast sets have at least 2 AOEs (cone and targeted AOE, and sometimes more than 2) + their nuke.  You offered up the cone - what would the other(s) be?

 

But what is REALLY missing from your suggestion is the T9 "nuke" that all blast sets have.  What would it be?  Hail of Bullets from DP, you can at least "buy" into it even with revolvers as that would be 12 shots affecting 16 foes (maybe some went through a couple).  But with a single pistol, you only have 6 shots (have to consider the revolver costume pieces over the semi-autos, uzis, etc) - how is it going to affect 16 foes?  Do we really have to buy into 6 rounds going through all those people to affect 16 foes??  ...Maybe.  Maybe not.  It would certainly have to be another empty gun cone and that seems repetitive to the standard cone you've already offered up.  

Yes, I acknowledge that the set is going to be a little trickier than other ranged sets due to the nature of the play style. I don't believe it should have an AoE as there isn't quite a suitable choice coming from a single pistol. There are semi auto pistols to choose from, but if we're only going to have a maximum of 6 per multi-shot attack then there isn't a realistic option for an AoE strike.. perhaps we could borrow an idea from the Thugs and have an attack where you throw a magazine into the air and shoot it, it explodes and hits enemies for an AoE but that seems more like something for another power set. 😐

I chose to put the cone attack earlier as it would be more useful to hit multiple enemies earlier in your run. The "nuke" would have to be a single heavy-hitting fight stopper with a long cool down. And yes, the cone should have the rounds hit multiple enemies. An Aim type of power can pierce multiple enemies in a line so it's not too farfetched to believe that a 6 shot cone would hit a crowd of enemies. If we included a buff like Feelin' Lucky and at least one melee strike such as Pistol Bash that still leaves 7 pistol powers, it starts to get difficult to find a lot of variations of attacks from a single gun.

 

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

T1: Gut Shot (not sure why you would shoot someone in the gut instead of the chest, but whatever)

Believe it or not, police used to be trained to aim for the pelvis back in the day. They would draw a revolver, squat all the way down to the ground and fire at the pelvis one-handed, it was believed this would disable the target and be less lethal than a chest shot. You can see for yourself in this old training video:
 

I picture the Gut Shot attack power's animation as being the existing "fire from the hip" power that we have. Since the set is not as exciting/dynamic as Dual Pistols, I feel this could help give the set some visual variety. Dual Pistols is quantity, Heavy Pistol would be about quality. Something that I have forgotten how much I dislike about Dual Pistols (and Martial Arts as well) is how "crouchy" they are; every attack power has your character repeatedly standing and squatting with each animation, so I hope this one would fix that by staying standing.

And now for your viewing pleasure, please enjoy this video of every shot fired by Dirty Harry in chronological order:
 

 

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, JebidiahBeetus said:

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

T1: Gut Shot (not sure why you would shoot someone in the gut instead of the chest, but whatever)

Believe it or not, police used to be trained to aim for the pelvis back in the day. They would draw a revolver, squat all the way down to the ground and fire at the pelvis one-handed, it was believed this would disable the target and be less lethal than a chest shot.

And understanding of gun wounds has progressed since then. Police are no longer trained to do so. Instead, they are trained to fire for center of mass because it is more reliable. Further, firing to maim, such as by firing at limbs (or the gut) has been deemed illegal for police (and others shooting to stop a threat). I believe in every state. I'm not entirely sure of the reasons, though I do know that firing at the gut has been intentionally abandoned by law enforcement. (And to the best of my knowledge, was so before any of those movies you are citing were made.)

 

Edit: Anyway, it's your proposed set. You can pitch whatever powers you want. I just think Gut Shot doesn't fit. Especially with the theme you are referencing with your clips.

Edited January 25 by Rudra

[Frozen Burn]

31 minutes ago, JebidiahBeetus said:

 An Aim type of power can pierce multiple enemies in a line so it's not too farfetched to believe that a 6 shot cone would hit a crowd of enemies. If we included a buff like Feelin' Lucky and at least one melee strike such as Pistol Bash that still leaves 7 pistol powers, it starts to get difficult to find a lot of variations of attacks from a single gun.

 

Aim is a buff power (+ACC, +DMG)... not an attack.  That is what I was referring to in my previous post, which you call "Feelin' Lucky" in this proposed set.  But yes, there is another DP power "Piercing Rounds" that does shoot a narrow cone and can hit up to 3 foes that are in a line.  So, that could be another power, but Aim is a different thing altogether.

 

Still, no melee power should be in a ranged set.  Unless you're creating a Dominator "Assault" secondary set.  

 

31 minutes ago, JebidiahBeetus said:

...it starts to get difficult to find a lot of variations of attacks from a single gun.

 

...And that is what I am driving at here.  Again, I like the concept and idea, but there isn't much to build off because there just isn't much variation.  DP is very "gun-fu" and over the top to provide that variation, flash, and super hero/villain -esque feel.  There isn't much room to go that is different with a single pistol set.  And I am guessing that is why this hasn't been implemented previously after all the years of people inquiring about it.  

 

[JebidiahBeetus]

I know what you're thinking: "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself.



But being these are a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow yer head clean awf, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"



 Well do ya, punk?

[General Idiot]

19 hours ago, JebidiahBeetus said:

I don't want it to be a power pool because I intend for it to be a primary power set

A primary set for which archetype? The only existing category the mix of melee and ranged powers you've given fits into is assault, which no archetype gets as primary and only dominators get as secondary. Thus my commentary on control sets, not as secondary effects on these powers but because this set as you've written it would have to be on a dominator. Unless you're actually suggesting a whole new archetype with assault primary, in which case I do wonder what secondary you envisioned for it?

[JebidiahBeetus]

Power Progression Tree For Blasters and Corruptors:

  Pistol Bash - Melee, Light DMG(Smash), Foe Disorient

  Gut Shot - Ranged, Moderate DMG(Lethal), Foe -DEF

  Heavy Shot - Ranged, High DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockback

  Feelin' Lucky - Self +To Hit, +DMG, +Range

  Empty Pistol - Ranged (Cone), Moderate DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockback

  Knee Shot - Ranged, Moderate DMG(Lethal), Foe Immob, -SPD, -Fly, -DEF

  Dodge This - Ranged, Superior DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockback

  Aimed Shot - Sniper, Extreme DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockback

The quintessential power set for detectives, investigators and gumshoes alike.
 

 

Edited January 27 by JebidiahBeetus

[Rudra]

Blasters, Corruptors, and Defenders don't get melee attacks in their Blast sets. Pistol Bash is not a valid power choice for those ATs on that set. (Edit: You also lack a nuke for the set.)

Edited January 27 by Rudra

[Starhammer]

I generally support the idea. I'd be just as satisfied to have an alternate animation selection for Dual Pistols to convert it into a single pistol set.

I do like the idea as it was first presented as an assault set for Dominators, and think it would pair nicely with the upcoming Arsenal control for a character that realistically carries a rifle and a pistol. And I'm fine with the revised version, even having a single melee attack, which I don't think would be a problem. In fact, I might suggest making the melee attack a replacement for the sniper attack, and have it hit harder and stun more.

and just because I can, I'll offer my earlier thoughts on what a single pistol set might look like as a pool power...
 

 

[Rudra]

Maybe this?

 

Pistol Assault (Dominator secondary):

As per the OP

 

Heavy Pistol (Blaster, Corruptor, and Sentinel primary; Defender secondary):

T1: Gut Shot

T2: Heavy Shot

T3: Suppressive Fire (Cone [edit again: or ST damaging debuff])

T4: Feeling Lucky

T5: Empty Pistol (Cone)

T6: Aim

T7: Knee Shot

T8: Dodge This

T9: Target Rich Environment (Cone or PBAoE nuke)

 

Pistol Combat (Blaster secondary):

T1: Back Off (Light damage kick or backhand, KB)

T2: Chin Check

T3: Marksman (As Reach For The Limit)

T4: Sweeping Punch

T5: Intimidating Glare (Cone fear, 0 damage)

T6: Mysterious Stranger (Self stealth, +DEF, RES slow+KB)

T7: Throw Sand

T8: Marked For Death (Edit: ST -RES, -DEF)

T9: Powderkeg Punch

 

Edited January 29 by Rudra
Edited to remove unnecessary copied elements.

[Night]

This thread has a few ideas about new gun powersets, including some for single pistols

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29 by Night

[Alchemystic]

Indeed! as @Starhammer and @Night pointed out, myself and others have tried our hand at making new pistol focused powersets in the past, whether it's dual pistols, a pistol and weapon, or even just a single pistol.

Assets in the game exist for 3-4 single handed pistol animations used by many NPCs, most notably the PPD. Other animations can be drawn from Dual Pistols to fill in the gaps, but there are few that make use of a single pistol at a time. Other animations exist in the Thugs powerset (and it's henchmen), but like Dual Pistols there few that make use of a single firearm, but when put together they can create a viable powerset.

Here's my attempt at a dedicated Pistol powerset for Blasters and Dominators, along with some pistol based contributions from the community, if it helps!

 

Marksman Pistol:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/13484-eco-friendly-powerset-recycling/page/21/#comment-397564

 

Sidearm Assault:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/13484-eco-friendly-powerset-recycling/page/26/#comment-602535

 

Pistol Assault:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/13484-eco-friendly-powerset-recycling/page/12/#comment-269277

 

Weapon Assault:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/13484-eco-friendly-powerset-recycling/page/13/#comment-282575

 

Blaster Pistol & Swashbuckling Assault:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/13484-eco-friendly-powerset-recycling/page/26/#comment-513085

 

Pistol Support:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/13484-eco-friendly-powerset-recycling/page/22/#comment-420903

 

 

Edited January 29 by Alchemystic

[JebidiahBeetus]

All fine suggestions, let's hope the current dev team can be convinced to give us a single pistol powerset sometime in the near future. The main goal to keep in mind is that Assault Rifle is about volume, Dual Pistols is quantity, and Single Pistol should be quality. And it must have Dirty Harry's magnum sound effect since we already have the gun as a pistol skin option: https://soundideas.sourceaudio.com/track/43532494

[GM_GooglyMoogly]