+DMG Buffs(like Overgrowth) OR -RES Debuffs (like Freezing Rain). Which provides more damage in a solo or team setting??

[Vinceq98]

Which is better SOLO?? +DMG buffs (like Overgrowth) VS -RES Debuffs (like Freezing Rain)

[Captain Fabulous]

Like most things in this game, a mix of both is best.

[ZemX]

Since you seem to be talking only about team buffs and area effect debuffs, I'd say +dmg always wins for four main reasons:

 

1. Team +dmg powers tend to have higher buff values than area debuffs have -res values.

2. Those -res values can be further reduced by an enemy with resistance to that type of damage.

3. Those -res values will be reduced even more by the Purple Patch when facing... anybody worth facing.

4. Buffs stick to your allies and can persist through multiple spawns.  Debuffs only stick to enemies until they are dead.  Fine if it's a toggle debuff, but if it has a recharge time, it's possible you might not be able to use it in every fight if the team is moving fast enough.

 

Note, of course, the best powers to use in any given situation are the ones you have. 🤪 This is just to answer the academic question of which powers tend to be more effective with regards JUST to damage.  These powers each also usually have other useful effects besides.

 

[Frozen Burn]

If you're facing a foe that is resistant to your damage type, then a +Dmg buff doesn't grant you as much as you'd like.  Whereas a -Res debuff on them will drop that resistance to that type and all other types.  To me, -Res is better in that regard.  But clearly, either is good and you ideally want both - whether solo or teamed, it doesn't matter.

[Seldom]

The worst possible answer: "It depends!"

What enemies are you facing? As mentioned above, innate resistance weakens -resistance effects. Bosses have higher resistances in general, so on paper +damage is better in those cases.
On the other hand, +damage is applied to the players' base damage numbers, and damage type. So for characters with high innate damage and little-resisted damage effects, as well as high damage caps, it's GREAT!

 

But on low 'base' damage characters, those with often resisted *coughLETHALcough* damage types, or low damage caps, -resistance will be noticeable.

 

Beyond these, damage buffs, while good for multiple matches, can be more tricky to keep up across a large team, depending on the power. A lot of +damage buffs are given out on longer timers or only to allies in an area. If you are playing with team members who hang back or run around, it can be harder to keep the whole team buffed. -Res, on the other hand, doesn't care where your ally is...as long as they all hit the debuffed target, you see the value.

Edited February 19 by Seldom

[MonteCarla]

You probably already have your damage buffed, so you'll want to take that into account.

Around +100% for slotting the power, plus any effects from Aim or Build Up, plus any red insps you've eaten.

Plus Blaster Defiance bonuses (~40-50%ish?) or Brute Fury bonuses (0-200%)

 

So say you're running at +100% damage, a +80% boost like Defender Overgrowth will increase your output from 200% to 280%, ie by 40% of what it was.

 

Damage resistance debuffs resistance debuffs, so -30% Res will always lead to you doing 30% more damage, even if the target resists that damage type. And your powers will probably be the only thing debuffing resistance. 

 

As a general rule of thumb, if you want to compare a +Damage buff vs a -Res debuff, halve the Damage buff values to take into account everyone slotting their attacks for damage.

 

If you want to take the "purple patch" into account, ie how debuffs get less effective against higher-conning enemies, then maybe multiple the -Res debuffs by 80% to simulate fighting +2 enemies.

 

(Details are here)

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Patch

Edited February 19 by MonteCarla

[Yomo Kimyata]

Let's see if I can math it up:

 

Overgrowth provides a +82.5% damage buff for 60 seconds.

 

Freezing Rain provides a -35% damage resistance for 30 seconds.

 

Example 1:  

 

You are attacking an even level Blood Brother Brawler with unslotted Chop.  Chop does base 102.6009 lethal damage, and Blood Brother Brawler has no resistance to Lethal damage.

 

Overgrowth means you do 187.2466 = (102.6009*(1+0.825)) damage.

Freezing Rain means you do 157.8475 =  (102.6009/(1-.35)) damage

 

Example 2:

 

You are attacking an even level Zeus Class Titan with Chop slotted for 95% damage.  chop does base 102.6009 lethal, Zeus has 50% lethal resist.  Before buffs/debuffs you would do 200.0718 damage which is resisted 50% for net 100.0359 damage.

 

Overgrowth means your base damage goes up to 102.6009*(1+0.95+0.825) = 284.7175 which is resisted 50% doing net 142.3587.

Freezing Rain applies a 35% debuff, which is resisted by 50% for a net 17.5% debuff.  Is that additive with damage resistance?  If so then their effective resistance is 32.5%.  Your damage is  200.0718/(1.325) = 150.9976. 200.0718 * (1 - 0.325) - 135.

 

There are a lot of factors that go into the equation, and I may not be getting the equation right!  Generally, the lower your damage enhancement the better off you are with +damage, but the higher your damage enhancement the better off you are with -damage resistance.

Edited February 19 by Yomo Kimyata
math

[Duckbutler]

38 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Freezing Rain applies a 35% debuff, which is resisted by 50% for a net 17.5% debuff.  Is that additive with damage resistance?  If so then their effective resistance is 32.5%.  Your damage is  200.0718/(1.325) = 150.9976.

 

There are a lot of factors that go into the equation, and I may not be getting the equation right!  Generally, the lower your damage enhancement the better off you are with +damage, but the higher your damage enhancement the better off you are with -damage resistance.

 

I think Montecarla's got it right, just based on the research I was doing last week. A 35% resistance debuff should always result in a 35% increase in the damage taken. So if a target has a bajillion resistance and you're doing 10 damage after their resistance, apply the debuff and attack again, you should then be doing 13.5 damage. The caveat is that it refers back to the base resistance before the debuff, so if you and I are both attacking this enemy and apply that same debuff, instead of 13.5 we're now doing 17.

 

In your example, I think it would lead to a hit of 135 damage.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I stand corrected, the formula should be 200.0718 * (1 - 0.325) - 135.

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

3 hours ago, MonteCarla said:

Damage resistance debuffs resistance debuffs, so -30% Res will always lead to you doing 30% more damage, even if the target resists that damage type. And your powers will probably be the only thing debuffing resistance. 

 

Now that I got my math cleared up (I hope), this is a short cut way to think about it.  If you are at 100% damage (unslotted), then a 30% damage bonus is equivalent to a -30% resistance debuff.  But if you are at, say 200% damage (slotted with +100% damage), then the damage bonus that is equivalent to a -30% resistance debuff is +60%.  The higher your damage bonus already is, the more value is gained from debuff, since it works on the total damage while the +damage is only incremental.  And of course, damage is going to run into a cap at some point.

[Psyonico]

Resistance resists resistance debuffs for anything that is not unresistable.  What this means is that if a target has 100% resistance to something before caps are applied(say an AV hits unstoppable) your resistance debuff will do absolutely nothing unless it's flagged as unresistable.

 

Yomo is correct in the +damage calculation.

[Chance Jackson]

That really ought to be determined by values of the dmg buff vs res debuff & how much dmg is already being buffed

 

*Dmg buffs effects base dmg of applicable damaging powers, players, pets etc at the damage cap(rare & for limited time only, buy today) can't benefit from more dmg buffs, neither can judgment attacks, nor pseudo pets summoned before the dmg buff, etc

 

*Where as -res on a target boosts dmg done by any source on that target but effectiveness is resisted by target's dmg resistance(iirc)

 

More often than not -res is better than +dmg buffs of the same percentage 

[Wavicle]

One advantage Debuffs have over Buffs is that not everyone is always in range to receive your buffs, but everyone will benefit from debuffs on the mobs they attack.

[MonteCarla]

True dat, Wavicle! 🙂 
Conversely, debuffs only affect the mobs you hit with them. 

I'm thinking here of rezzing Freakshow, for example. If you have a single shot debuff like Pain Dom's Anguishing Cry (as opposed to a pulsing one like Sleet/Freezing Rain) then the rezzers are unaffected.

[MoisesG]

According to the math i say Nerf Regen *runs and hides*

[Duckbutler]

Yeah, I think all the practical considerations are the real answer: you want a mix of both. Also, unless you're capped, more is always better despite the effective diminishing returns of additional +damage. If you can otherwise afford to take Assault in a build and that's part of your plan, it's still worth doing.

 

For my part, getting into these mechanics also answered the question of why I barely felt the bonus damage from Blinding Feint on my Dual Blades Brute many years ago. From what I have been seeing on Dual Blades, BF is nevertheless still part of the ideal attack chain for the set because more damage is still a good thing and it's an attack, too.