Looking for end-all be-all tank for completion

[Story Archer]

I feel like it really all depends on what you consider a 'super-hero's super-hero'... something that's unkillable, something that annihilates anything it comes across or trying to find a happy medium between both?

 

At the moment my two favorite Tankers are both in the middle, one leaning much closer to one end and one, of course, leaning to the other. 

 

Candidate #1: Dark Armor / Martial Arts

This guy can survive anything. There are a few different ways you can build it, depending on what attacks you want to focus on. The numbers posted below are first from a build with NO purple/L50 enhancements or Incarnates at all... and second from the L50 build with purples but no Incarnates.

 

 

Some of my favorite features of these builds are TWO stacking damage auras that put out about as much damage together as a T2 attack with every pulse, unbreakable Stealth that pretty much renders Ranged defense pointless and, on top of all the layers of defense you see listed there and the -ToHit from the Dark abilities (like Cloak of Fear and Darkest Night) you get arguably the best self-heal in the game available every 12-15 seconds. Ain't nothing killing this guy.

 

Candidate #2: Radiation / Stone Hammer or Super Strength

This build is kind of at the other end of the spectrum. It evaporates bad guys like snow in a desert sandstorm. There are actually two different versions of this (Stone or SS) depending on how you feel about Rage crash, but what they have in common are two potent mini-nukes (one which heals you and one which heals your allies)... each deal about half as much damage as a well-slotted Blaster's T9 with one up every 20 seconds or so and one up every 30 seconds or so - that's in addition to a potent PBAoE attack that goes off 5-8 seconds. The mini-nukes are even unaffected by rage-crash since the majority of their damage come from procs.

 

In both cases the Damage Resistances are comparable to what you see above, but the character is only soft-capped to Melee attacks with more middling defenses against ranged and AoE attacks. To help that out, I make liberal use of Fold Space which pairs beautifully with Beta Decay. I bounce back and forth between which version I like more, but generally lean towards the 'super-hero' feeling that comes with dropping a maxed out Foot Stomp.

 

If you're interested in any of these builds, just let me know.

 

 

Edited April 15 by Story Archer

[Story Archer]

8 hours ago, Sovera said:

Bio is perfectly tailored for the current meta. Ablative is up at every spawn (under 30 seconds recharge) and soaks half the HP of the Tanker, and then DNA Siphon ALSO is up at every spawn healing, boosting regen, recovering endurance and recovery itself. After those two the mobs need to debuff defense in order to have a chance since between the damage boost, the -res, and BU + Gaussian most things are going to be limping.

 

In fact, I haven't done a Bio Tanker yet in all my years. Time to do a Bio/Fire!

 

But it looks flat-out Fugly in a lot of cases...

[Sovera]

23 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

 

But it looks flat-out Fugly in a lot of cases...

 

And...?

[Story Archer]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

And...?

 

And... that matters to some people.

[Sovera]

6 minutes ago, Story Archer said:

 

And... that matters to some people.

 

Ok...?

[Story Archer]

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

 

Ok...?

 

Ok.

[StriderIV]

8 hours ago, Sovera said:

I think Bio/Fire would fit. Fire Melee (and being a Tanker with the inherent) with two PbAoEs already takes care of the AoE.

 

What are the usual woes of a Tanker? Whittling down bosses. Bio is great for ST damage between +damage and -res, and then we cheekily sneak another -res into Fire Sword. I usually poopoo on -res attacks but Fire Sword already has two procs and good stats so might as well add a third one that helps more than adding a smash or slash damage proc. The real speedbumps are the AVs anyway.

 

 

After the post above I tinkered one up. I decided to ignore my usual attempts at raising S/L defense since this is a Tanker who has capped S/L resistances (with a second ATO proc and Barrier) and focused on E/N and the usual. Despite the Offensive Adaptation penalty it still ends with capped S/L as mentioned and a decent 50% E/N, plus 6.7% for a second ATO stack, plus 5% from Barrier, for a decent 62%... and if a third ATO proc happens to happen (unreliable though) then 69% (nice).

 

I could have added the Theft of Essence to DNA Siphon which is smarter, but, I wanted the E/N more. Regardless there is over 2 EPS (I say over because Focused Accuracy is still with the old values which have been halved, so it should not be 0.42 as FA shows in Mids) plus four different endurance procs.

 

Plus a decent-ish 55 HP regen a second, plus almost 1900 shield up every 30 seconds.

 

Should be fine.

 

This is the exemplaring version where we can roam the exemplaring spectrum from Posi 1 to the ITF, but the non exemplaring version only replaces Scorch for Incinerate with Inexhaustible taking Scorch's place. From Posi 1 to Synapse the non exemplaring version has a grand total of one ST attack, but for Yin and up it has the full rotation.

 

Tanker (Bio Armor - Fiery Melee - Exemplaring).mbd 43.98 kB · 2 downloads

 

 

Awesome build, as always Sov. Bio/Fiery might be one of the most min/max builds in the game. I actually think it’s cool conceptually as well.

[Hyperstrike]

Quick and dirty?

Simply plug in the Energy Melee secondary and begin kicking ALL THE BUTT.

[Sovera]

9 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Awesome build, as always Sov. Bio/Fiery might be one of the most min/max builds in the game. I actually think it’s cool conceptually as well.

 

Been leveling it and it is being a beast.

 

At level 6 I bumped the difficulty to 0x6 which was a bit ambitious but I play Tankers for that fast bump in difficulty.

 

Posi 1 was touch and go. Stone Armor breezed through because it's thing is being nearly all passive, but having to rely on cooldowns at a level where we don't have slots, or IOs we can equip in them, plus the stat squish, was touch and go, but nothing a few sprinkled purples did not fix. One death to a Luminous (I swear these guys carry Vhaz on their backs).

 

Posi 2 was already easier with DNA Siphon and breezed through. One death to the CoT EB spawn where stacked Earthquakes and immobilizes got through my Cc toggles (I mean, I even know I need one breakfree for that specific encounter but bulled through anyway).

 

Teamed for Synapse, nothing to report, was easy. AoE is now brutal with both PbAoEs + damage aura + Adaptation + Evolving Armor's -res.

 

Entered Yin's TF at level 28 and respeced out of Scorch to pick Incinerate, then started grinding the first mission to get Greater Fire Sword. Was timing how long it took to get the police station opened. First missions it took 12-13 minutes but once having GFS and six slotted it went down to 10 minutes which is the norm. Absolutely slot starved but aimed for attacks first, four slots in Ablative, and only the native slot in DNA Siphon. And, yet, it was DNA Siphon carrying me for the whole trip. Reach a group, start unloading on a boss as the rest of the mobs wake up and rush in. Once surrounded pop BU, then GFS, then both PbAoEs. By then part of my HP is down and if there is a Super Stunner it's had its first death and debuffed me. DNA Siphon. Continue moping. Was nice defeating Freak Tanks before they could heal but only when I could focus on them instead of using AoEs, but even when they healed it didn't feel bad.

 

I had I think, only two wolves from the Council since I focused them down at 20% and barring a miss or misstiming they'd be on the ground before transforming.

 

Clamour was one of the easiest I had even with half slotted defenses. One single small purple and burninating the poor thing while alternating DNA Siphon and Ablative. Was still touch and go on the final ambush and I did use inspirations as they dropped since my blue bar couldn't keep up with DNA Siphon still with only its native slot despite being the most important clickie as it both heals and recoups endurance. Ended at 49 minutes on the dot so a new record (old records were 40 minutes but lots of changes and haven't tested the old builds that had those times). Previous best was 54 minutes I believe with the Stone/Fire Melee.

 

For those worried about the looks I can safely say that at around Yin level the passive defenses and DNA Siphon I barely had to touch Ablative. Perhaps 2-3 times in the whole TF and pretty sure if I had more slots in DNA Siphon I could have passed a bit more.

 

But DNA Siphon is a clickie that relies on quantity, and, mostly, on defeated bodies. Alive mobs are great to heal but just one or two alive ones and DNA Siphon barely is worth clicking on since it will neither heal nor give enough endurance to pay for itself (unslotted as it still is). So Ablative had the initial slots I could spare as it has no gimmick to rely on.

 

 

I pondered if it was worth proc bombing DNA Siphon and I can see the upsides. But it only does the damage of one of my PbAoEs and those already recharge in 5-6 seconds. I could see it in a build that lacked AoE though, but DNA Siphon being a linchpin I think I'll keep it properly slotted. On the other hand that power is a feast or famine poster child. If we are surrounded then extra slots are overkill, but if we are not surrounded then they are needed. That's why it was still with just its native one slot by the end of Clamour.

 

The Synapse's Shock slotting may be a tad too simplistic though it has good bonuses. Looking at Mids even slotted for endurance it only gives 10 endurance back (with a chance of failure) with one enemy in range. That makes it useless as it only pays for itself in 1 VS 1 scenarios. Corpses are where it shines so basically it's great for regular gameplay but not for soloing AVs. Recovery must be well in hand for 1 VS 1 scenarios since DNA Siphon will not be of (much) help. Even a Theft of Essence would only add another 10 points.

 

Hmm.. Perhaps frankenslotting for both heal and endurance and then also add a Theft of Essence for good measure.

 

I'll ponder it. In the meanwhile this is the non-examplar friendly version I'm building towards:

 

Tanker (Bio Armor - Fiery Melee - Non Exemplaring).mbd

 

Edited April 16 by Sovera

[Videra]

If you want the absolute most out of a tanker, you're looking at any combination of Rad/SS, Rad/Martial, Bio/Martial, or Bio/SS.

[tidge]

On 4/15/2024 at 12:56 AM, Infinitum said:

 

In the right hands Bio is up there in terms of survivability with Shield and SR - Which IMO are the best because it takes a magnitude of stuff going all wrong to kill them - which hardly ever happens outside of hardmode. 

 

In terms of set it and forget it power - Shield and SR are tops - highest DDR, easy to incarnate soft cap defenses, great resistances, +recharge for SR, +damage and team buff for shield +shield charge a mini nuke.   90% of normal gameplay won't even flinch - and the other 10% will only tickle. 

 

Invul isn't far behind those also - just slightly less DDR which is only noticeable in a select few engagements. 

 

I want to Echo the post I quoted: It is relatively straightforward to make a Tanker with any primary perform exceptionally well in 98% of the games' content. I think Bio is probably the top primary for a completely engaged Tanker. I don't want to take anything away from Shield or SR, as noted it requires things going pear-shaped to plant them... but when that happens it cane come as enough of a surprise that players with those primaries that (writing for myself) I find it can be more of a scramble to deal with.

 

Invulnerability is what I'd consider the baseline for Tankers. It is a straightforward set to build and boost with a set of "classic" gameplay elements that have to be addressed, with core powers of Invincibility and Dull Pain that when I play my Invuln Tanker I have to pay attention to... the former is for almost all content a mindlessly applied toggle, and the latter is a click that is almost never used, yet for extreme content I find it important to pay attention to both.

[Xandyr]

On 4/14/2024 at 11:56 PM, Infinitum said:

 

In my hands Bio is up there in terms of survivability with Shield and SR 

 

Bio also brings 3 debuffs to the table plus a whole heap of damage potential that when tapped is second to none in my hands. 

 

 

Fixed that for ya. 😎😉

[Sovera]

Welp, the Bio/Fire was going fine until Manticore. Then I started dying. Then I wised up to be careful about being confused. Then kept dying anyway. So I went more carefully, got ready to flee when needed. Then got hard countered by a spawn with four +2 bosses, two of which were debuffers and they hard walled me with four deaths in a row, return from hospital, get killed, etc. I could have gobbled inspirations to pass them, but, heh.

 

I went to look at why the Stone/Fire Melee had breezed through Manticore and the only thing I saw was the softcapped defense to psi... Well, softcapped defense to everything I guess. I had 38% defense to energy and once debuffed Ablative was of no help.

 

Bio lives up to the idea of being pretty strong offensive and against generic enemies but folding against debuffs. A bit like Willpower I guess. It did make me feel like a Scrapper. Or at least a Brute. Very strong trip up to 45 and Manticore at least.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

Fixed that for ya. 😎😉

😂 Nah. I'm not that proficient with it yet, but I'm getting there.

 

Half the battle was picking apart it's synergy and then building around the 4 areas it really does well to suit my approach. 

[Azari]

Invuln/SS is my favorite due to having insanely good tohit debuff res. And just high tohit buffs in general. Then you get even more accuracy from vigor and fill all your attacks almost completely with procs. 

[ZemX]

On 4/16/2024 at 5:17 PM, Sovera said:

I went to look at why the Stone/Fire Melee had breezed through Manticore and the only thing I saw was the softcapped defense to psi... Well, softcapped defense to everything I guess. I had 38% defense to energy and once debuffed Ablative was of no help.

 

Soft-capped *and* DDR protected defense on the Stoner.  If you are being hit by Enervating Field from a +2 PP boss, you've just lost around 36% res(all) no matter what you had to begin with.  If defense is also stripped on the Bio by gunfire and/or Rad Infections, yeah, you're down to relying on absorb and heal vs increased damage from res debuff.  Not good.

[Sovera]

7 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

Soft-capped *and* DDR protected defense on the Stoner.  If you are being hit by Enervating Field from a +2 PP boss, you've just lost around 36% res(all) no matter what you had to begin with.  If defense is also stripped on the Bio by gunfire and/or Rad Infections, yeah, you're down to relying on absorb and heal vs increased damage from res debuff.  Not good.

 

Good point. I thought it about the DDR only after having posted. Even if Stone's DDR is not the bestest it still nullifies part of the incoming debuffs.

[Ashford]

On 4/16/2024 at 5:17 PM, Sovera said:

Welp, the Bio/Fire was going fine until Manticore. Then I started dying. Then I wised up to be careful about being confused. Then kept dying anyway. So I went more carefully, got ready to flee when needed. Then got hard countered by a spawn with four +2 bosses, two of which were debuffers and they hard walled me with four deaths in a row, return from hospital, get killed, etc. I could have gobbled inspirations to pass them, but, heh.

 

I went to look at why the Stone/Fire Melee had breezed through Manticore and the only thing I saw was the softcapped defense to psi... Well, softcapped defense to everything I guess. I had 38% defense to energy and once debuffed Ablative was of no help.

 

Bio lives up to the idea of being pretty strong offensive and against generic enemies but folding against debuffs. A bit like Willpower I guess. It did make me feel like a Scrapper. Or at least a Brute. Very strong trip up to 45 and Manticore at least.

yup and that's why I call it a toolkit resist set. It does it's job at mitigation but in a real fight as bio, the build will either fold like paper or the build will be dropping in damage as time spent doing damage  will be on doing a defensive rotation that can not be sidestepped as most of the actual damage mitigation is button based so there will be a damage loss, which means mobs are not dying as fast as they should, which means taking in more damage, which means a higher likelyhood of once again, folding like paper. 

Edited April 19 by Ashford

[ExeErdna]

14 minutes ago, Ashford said:

yup and that's why I call it a toolkit resist set. It does it's job at mitigation but in a real fight as bio, the build will either fold like paper or the build will be dropping in damage as time spent doing damage  will be on doing a defensive rotation that can not be sidestepped as most of the actual damage mitigation is button based so there will be a damage loss, which means mobs are not dying as fast as they should, which means taking in more damage, which means a higher likelyhood of once again, folding like paper. 

From my own experience with having a Bio/Rad that I used to take into Hami raids. Like I'm not bothered by the GMs, yet it was Hami himself. Normally there was a Inv/SS tank that would handle Hami but when he went down I had to take over and Bio was on the edge of folding a lot. I have just dropped to zero because damage ticked just as the EoE dropped. I have a love hate with Bio, honestly shows you're NOT supposed to be running around punching up like that. The rest of the group is supposed to cover the gaps being able to solo +4/8 is a flex, not the norm.

[Erratic1]

On 4/16/2024 at 5:17 PM, Sovera said:

I went to look at why the Stone/Fire Melee had breezed through Manticore and the only thing I saw was the softcapped defense to psi... Well, softcapped defense to everything I guess. I had 38% defense to energy and once debuffed Ablative was of no help.

 

Yeah, psi is somewhat dangerous to my SS/Bio Brute. It is the reason when facing Carnival of Shadows the bosses have to be taken out pronto (especially if you're running +4x8). I am surprised that your Defense values were so low, unless you were running pre-IO.

On 4/16/2024 at 5:17 PM, Sovera said:

Bio lives up to the idea of being pretty strong offensive and against generic enemies but folding against debuffs. A bit like Willpower I guess. It did make me feel like a Scrapper. Or at least a Brute. Very strong trip up to 45 and Manticore at least.

 

It is strong from beginning to end and some debuffs you do laugh at.  "Oh, you're going after my endurance?"--but that is from the standpoint of playing it as a Brute designed to operate in Efficient Stance. My Bio/Rad Tanker is (somewhat obviously) designed to operate in Offensive, so things may work out differently there (I should play him more, but he's my villain side character and I  do not play him as much).

[Erratic1]

On 4/18/2024 at 10:04 PM, Ashford said:

yup and that's why I call it a toolkit resist set. It does it's job at mitigation but in a real fight as bio, the build will either fold like paper or the build will be dropping in damage as time spent doing damage  will be on doing a defensive rotation that can not be sidestepped as most of the actual damage mitigation is button based so there will be a damage loss, which means mobs are not dying as fast as they should, which means taking in more damage, which means a higher likelyhood of once again, folding like paper. 

 

You have three clicks, one of which is on a longish recharge. What rotation are you engaged in that is meaningfully taking time away from dealing damage?

 

As goes the longer recharge on Parastic Aura, I wrote elsewhere:

 

Quote

• Surviving comes down to the following rule of the road: If you have just entered a large mob of enemies then you should pop Parasitic Aura. Failure to do this can lead to the abovementioned Sudden Onset Bio Defeat, even beyond the ability of your "Oh Shit!" buttons (Ablative Carapace and DNA Siphon) to save you.

 

Mind you, that is from a Brute perspective. Still, significantly boosting your Regen and Recovery and debuffing the damage of everything around you at the beginning of a fight is a straightforward proposition and you have 45s of use before its duration runs out. 

 

Elsewhere in that post I noted:

 

Quote

• Bio is a hybrid set. You will with not too much effort cap F/C/E/N defense. It may be possible to cap S/L defense but it is easier to cap S/L resistance. While you can get okay'ish S/L defense you do not have DDR, so putting effort into going beyond where you end up is of dubious value when facing things which debuff defense.
• As you do not have DDR you will have to rely on regen and absorption, which you have powers to help you with. How and when to use these powers are the key to avoiding Sudden Onset Bio Defeat.
• Some people say Bio is a clicky set. I suspect some of that comes from stance dancing and the other from not appreciating the proper time to use the set's regen/absorption powers. Stance dancing is up to you, but for my personal style of play I picked one stance and built around it. It is not that I cannot change stances just I am less optimized to be outside of my preferred stance.
• I suspect from your phrasing you are looking at living in Offensive Stance. Know that it applies a resistance penalty to all of your resistance values. This should mean little to F/C/E/N defense values but you will need to rely more heavily on regen/absorption.

 

[Azari]

Heres how my tank is slotted. This is my take on the classic hero, including elements from several other builds from my SG mates and other folks. I’ve tested & tweaked it a lot.

 

 You could easily replace TP with Flight or Mystic Flight if you want to be more of a Supernan.

Edited April 21 by Azari

[Sovera]

Those +5s aren't doing much because of ED, and if you exemplar further than 47 all the bonuses are lost.

[Hyperstrike]

21 hours ago, Azari said:

Heres how my tank is slotted. This is my take on the classic hero, including elements from several other builds from my SG mates and other folks. I’ve tested & tweaked it a lot.

 

 You could easily replace TP with Flight or Mystic Flight if you want to be more of a Supernan.

I agree about the ED stuff.

However, my personal little foible/conceit is that you're using Fighting  as a mule pool, you're better off taking Kick rather than Boxing.
Differences in damage output are negligible.
And kick allows you to sneak in a Force Feedback proc.  Sure, it only a tiny speed boost.  But it's something USEFUL to to your whole build, rather than just dropping in a damage proc without real augmentation.
Consuming valuable slots and set bonuses that can be shoe-horned in elsewhere.

[Azari]

6 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

I agree about the ED stuff.

However, my personal little foible/conceit is that you're using Fighting  as a mule pool, you're better off taking Kick rather than Boxing.
Differences in damage output are negligible.
And kick allows you to sneak in a Force Feedback proc.  Sure, it only a tiny speed boost.  But it's something USEFUL to to your whole build, rather than just dropping in a damage proc without real augmentation.
Consuming valuable slots and set bonuses that can be shoe-horned in elsewhere.

I dont think I want any more recharge procs because it would cause my other powers to proc less. And my attack chain is perfectly fine, really no need for any more speed.  And I consider that slow resistance to be rather important. It resists recharge debuffs, which are super annoying.  I prefer to keep it 🙂

 

plus when am I ever gonna find the time to use kick? 

Edited April 22 by Azari