Aggressively reduce price of basic enhancements

[Pleonast]

I feel that one of the worst pain points for new players is the enhancement system. Even if they understand what enhancements they want, they don’t have the funds to acquire them. Eventually their influence catches up to their wants, but do we really want the new player experience gated by influence? 
 

So what would happen if the cost of TOs, DOs, and SOs were reduced to one tenth their current price? Then new players would have enough influence to buy and experiment with these basic enhancements. With minimal impact on established players, since these enhancements play almost no part in the end game except as an unneeded influence source. 
 

Thoughts? 

[Rudra]

Well, to start, TOs don't really exist any more. New players can get free enhancements from START as well. And enhancements don't start being critical until about the mid-game. Players get access to reward merits for completing arcs that they can use to buy things to sell on the AH or just flat out buy some enhancements like the expensive winter IOs. And they get DO drops and SO drops from enemies they can slot as they go or sell on the AH or to a vendor for extra inf'. So buying SOs at early levels isn't really a good idea. (Neither is buying DOs at early levels for that matter.)

[macskull]

Said it in another thread, but at least one developer has said that players are expected to interact with the auction house as they level to earn inf for enhancements if they want to keep their enhancements current.

[biostem]

26 minutes ago, Pleonast said:

Thoughts? 

I think player expectation needs to be tempered;  While there are ways to accumulate the funds necessary to fully slot your character, even at lower levels, it must be stressed that it is ok to not be fully slotted at all times.  Further, things like DFB and the early buff to help low level characters hit more, not to mention how lower level enemies are easier in general, are there to make said early levels a smoother experience.

[Pleonast]

I see your points, but I’m not talking about early levels. I’m talking about a new player who is at that the point in the leveling curve where the game is balanced around characters having SOs. And generally a new player (that is, one without a max-level character) will not be able to afford fully slotting out SOs.
 

Sure, it’s still playable, but I’m not sure why we need a friction point around accumulating enough influence for basic enhancements. Every veteran player skips past that by funding their alts. Why? Because it is difficult to self-fund while leveling, and it’s so easy to just send a few million influence to each alt. We’re all avoiding the issue in a way a new player cannot. 
 

I think it’s an unnecessary pain point for players without a max-level character. 

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, Pleonast said:

I see your points, but I’m not talking about early levels. I’m talking about a new player who is at that the point in the leveling curve where the game is balanced around characters having SOs. And generally a new player (that is, one without a max-level character) will not be able to afford fully slotting out SOs.
 

Sure, it’s still playable, but I’m not sure why we need a friction point around accumulating enough influence for basic enhancements. Every veteran player skips past that by funding their alts. Why? Because it is difficult to self-fund while leveling, and it’s so easy to just send a few million influence to each alt. We’re all avoiding the issue in a way a new player cannot. 
 

I think it’s an unnecessary pain point for players without a max-level character. 

Even at mid level or high level play, no one needs to be fully slotted. It helps and is definitely nice, but they just need to be slotted enough. And they can do that if they use the resources at their disposal even without having to work the market or any other inf' gathering method. With the addition of reward merits and the fact that SOs can drop as early as level 1 from enemies now (with an increasing likelihood as they get higher in level), getting enhancements in this game has never been easier.

 

Nothing in this game is so difficult that it can't be beaten even if you don't have any enhancements slotted while leveling up, if you figure out how to fight them or have friends to team with to face the more difficult foes with. Nothing in this game even remotely needs a character to be fully slotted while leveling. No one needs to be fully slotted until they start tackling some of the end game content. And if they want to be anyway? They can play the market. They can use their reward merits. They can hunt grey mobs to gather drops and sell them to buy the enhancements they want. They can turn off XP and hunt more difficult foes to buy the enhancements they want. They have options in other words.

 

Edited February 29 by Rudra
Edited to correct "bu" to "be".

[Wavicle]

38 minutes ago, Pleonast said:

I see your points, but I’m not talking about early levels. I’m talking about a new player who is at that the point in the leveling curve where the game is balanced around characters having SOs. And generally a new player (that is, one without a max-level character) will not be able to afford fully slotting out SOs.
 

Sure, it’s still playable, but I’m not sure why we need a friction point around accumulating enough influence for basic enhancements. Every veteran player skips past that by funding their alts. Why? Because it is difficult to self-fund while leveling, and it’s so easy to just send a few million influence to each alt. We’re all avoiding the issue in a way a new player cannot. 
 

I think it’s an unnecessary pain point for players without a max-level character. 

 

It doesn't take having a max level character to fund yourself for SOs. All it takes is some badge hunting, which has been made easier than ever with the latest content patch. No Vidiots necessary.

[Pleonast]

I’ve seen enough of posts like this one, 

to convince me there’s a problem. Maybe we need to improve the in-game guidance for new players to get influence. But the underlying problem is that basic enhancements (TO, DO, SO) are too expensive for new players who are unaware of the influence meta. 
 

Super cheap basic enhancements are not going to undercut the IO or IO set markets. They won’t make the game too easy, since they are the balance point at the appropriate levels. But they will make the game a lot more accessible to new players, especially ones more interested in heroing than marketing. 

[arcane]

I don’t understand why it’s a problem that players who don’t yet know how to make money are struggling to make money. This has been the case in every MMO I’ve played. You’re just supposed to learn.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Pleonast said:

I’ve seen enough of posts like this one, 

to convince me there’s a problem. Maybe we need to improve the in-game guidance for new players to get influence. But the underlying problem is that basic enhancements (TO, DO, SO) are too expensive for new players who are unaware of the influence meta. 
 

Super cheap basic enhancements are not going to undercut the IO or IO set markets. They won’t make the game too easy, since they are the balance point at the appropriate levels. But they will make the game a lot more accessible to new players, especially ones more interested in heroing than marketing. 

I don't understand why it's a problem either. The reference thread talks about grinding fighting enemies and leveling, and selling salvage (and large inspirations). It makes no mention in the OP about making use of being able to turn off XP to grind for inf', makes no mention of using the AH, makes no mention of utilizing awarded reward merits, or using any other method to attempt to have sufficient inf' to buy the desired SOs. It is a 'I'm not getting enough inf' from just leveling' post. And that is the point. You will not get enough inf' just leveling to keep yourself fully slotted with SOs. Players have to use the other means available to them to do so. And this is a very helpful community. Any new player can just ask in the Help channel and get the information on how to get more inf'. Or they can ask in Broadcast in Atlas Park. Or they can ask their teammates. Or they can just open the options menu and see what is there for them to leverage getting more inf' before the next level.

[nzer]

Of course you should be able to get enough inf just from leveling to keep yourself fully slotted. The game gives you the slots, you should be able to use them without having to google around for money making guides or mooching off randos in atlas.

 

If the goal is to create a sliding scale of effectiveness based on money-making ability, the way to do that is to have different tiers of enhancements in which cost is proportional to effectiveness, not to deny players the ability to use the slots they have. This is something that already exists, and it's a problem that even the lowest tiers are still prohibitively expensive for a new player who's experiencing the game blind given they have to be replaced every six levels. I can't think of a reason why this should be the case.

[Wavicle]

Other games solve this Not by making sure you get enough money to buy gear (you don't) but instead by making sure you get sufficient gear as rewards while levelling up. Maybe the solution lies there?

[Pleonast]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Other games solve this Not by making sure you get enough money to buy gear (you don't) but instead by making sure you get sufficient gear as rewards while levelling up. Maybe the solution lies there?

That would work as well. But that way is probably a net influence source. New players basically spend all their influence until they reach max level. Letting them get more stuff for it doesn’t change the total economy much at all. Once a player reaches max level, all those basic enhancements are purely vendor trash. Increasing the drop rate increases the total influence income of the server. 

Edited March 1 by Pleonast

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, Pleonast said:

That would work as well. But that way is probably a net influence source. New players basically spend all their influence until they reach max level. Letting them get more stuff for it doesn’t change the total economy much at all. Once a player reaches max level, all those basic enhancements are purely vendor trash. Increasing the drop rate increases the total influence income of the server. 

i was thinking more along the lines of ensuring the drops they already get are actually useful to them.

[Chris24601]

Just add Acc and EndRdx enhancements of all origins to all drop lists and it’d probably be good enough.

 

Extra damage and faster recharge (more damage by different route) is NICE, but in terms of frustration factor nothing is worse than regular whiffing and needing to use Rest after every spawn.

 

Make usable enhancements to alleviate that drop more often and a lot of the store issues handle themselves.

[golstat2003]

13 hours ago, Wavicle said:

i was thinking more along the lines of ensuring the drops they already get are actually useful to them.

 

So make sure the drop you always get matches your Origin? Nice. I like it.

[macskull]

On 2/29/2024 at 11:50 AM, nzer said:

If the goal is to create a sliding scale of effectiveness based on money-making ability

…then that goal has already been accomplished, because every player has the same ability to make inf to buy enhancements.

[nzer]

8 minutes ago, macskull said:

…then that goal has already been accomplished, because every player has the same ability to make inf to buy enhancements

 

No, money making ability is dependent on knowledge.

[Ghost]

I know one thing that doesn’t help newbies….

 

When they are told it’s best to get IOs at 25 (in help chat).  Those things are expensive and unnecessary for people still learning to play.

[golstat2003]

10 minutes ago, nzer said:

 

No, money making ability is dependent on knowledge.

 

Well yes . . . that's the point the devs were making when they said they expect players to use the AH in some capcaity for their inf making needs.

 

EDIT: And it's not like this knowledge is super sekrit. Ask in Help or General in game and the same advice that's been given here on the forums for years on how to make inf, will be told to new players.

Edited March 1 by golstat2003

[golstat2003]

1 minute ago, Ghost said:

I know one thing that doesn’t help newbies….

 

When they are told it’s best to get IOs at 25 (in help chat).  Those things are expensive and unnecessary for people still learning to play.

 

I just tell the do tfs, sfs and convert the merits to Boosters and sell those. Easiest way to have enough inf to keep your IOs upgraded to 50.

 

I mean at levels 1-5 you can do the exploration badges and openening arcs and have 8-12 merits. The boosters you get from those (there is a machine in city hall in atlas park) will sell for about 2- 4 mil to start.

[nzer]

5 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

Well yes . . . that's the point the devs were making when they said they expect players to use the AH in some capcaity for their inf making needs.

 

If the intent is that players will need to do research and engage with the AH just to keep their slots filled, then I think that intention is unreasonable. A player should be able to keep their slots filled playing blind, even if their enhancements are of lesser quality.

[Wavicle]

Just now, nzer said:

 

If the intent is that players will need to do research and engage with the AH just to keep their slots filled, then I think that intention is unreasonable. A player should be able to keep their slots filled playing blind, even if their enhancements are of lesser quality.

They can. They just might have to use some DOs.

[nzer]

Just now, Wavicle said:

They can. They just might have to use some DOs.

 

I'm skeptical that this is the case, given the frequency at which non-IOs need to be replaced.

[Wavicle]

Just now, nzer said:

 

I'm skeptical that this is the case, given the frequency at which non-IOs need to be replaced.

Is your Hypothetical noob using Double XP boosters?