PROCS DAM OR -RES

[Lazarus]

When looking at a power and what procs to include, whats better dam. or -res.

 

Does the type of attack (single, aoe) matter,..

 

I'm not talking proc% or chance,   just dam. vs -res,...what helps me clear mobs faster.

 

thoughts.

[RelativeQuanta]

This is a complicated topic and the answer is going to depend a lot on your build.  There's a discussion here on using multiple -Res procs.

 

Basically, if you can use both, use both.  Proc damage generally ignores damage buffs but -Res will increase the damage it does.  So they compliment each other.  

[Ukase]

I think RelativeQuanta lays it out clearly. 

City of Data 2.0 is worth a look. The site even has the inherent Apprentice Charm that magic origin characters get! 

What will lay out the mobs fastest? Depends on the mobs in question. Almost every question in this game has the answer "Depends". 

What's better for +4/8 work, a brute or a tank? Depends. 
How do I stay behind my keyboard for 8 hours at a time, without ever getting up? Depends. 
 

[Player2]

13 hours ago, Lazarus said:

When looking at a power and what procs to include, whats better dam. or -res.

 

Does the type of attack (single, aoe) matter,..

 

I'm not talking proc% or chance,   just dam. vs -res,...what helps me clear mobs faster.

 

thoughts.

The simple answer is are you a teamer or a soloer?

 

If you team, -Resist is always better because the benefit of it applies to damage your entire team will do to the affected targets.  If you solo more... I guess it really depends on how much damage vs how much -Resist.  Also, proc % chance matters.  If one procs at a better rate, then that would be a more favorable option.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ukase said:

What will lay out the mobs fastest? Depends on the mobs in question. Almost every question in this game has the answer "Depends". 

What's better for +4/8 work, a brute or a tank? Depends. 
How do I stay behind my keyboard for 8 hours at a time, without ever getting up? Depends. 
 

What's the worst melee damage mitigation powerset?

 

"Depends."

 

NO!!  It's Regen.  It is always Regen.  No depends about it.

[Marshal_General]

2 hours ago, Player2 said:

What's the worst melee damage mitigation powerset?

 

"Depends."

 

NO!!  It's Regen.  It is always Regen.  No depends about it.

Actually Depends would be a worse mitigation power set as it only helps a little against smashing attacks to the rear area.

[Ironblade]

18 hours ago, Lazarus said:

When looking at a power and what procs to include, whats better dam. or -res.

 

Offhand, I would say there are two main factors to consider: Are you alone and what are you fighting?

If you're on a team, -res benefits everyone on the team so that would be preferable.

If you're fighting 'hard' targets like AV's (or EB's, GM's), having the -res might work better than the extra damage.  Maybe.  There's a lot of variables.

Most of the time, you're going to kill things fast enough that the -res is probably sub-optimal.

 

So, in a few situations, the answer is clear.  If it's a tank that you only use for teaming, go -res.  If it's a corr that you only solo, go +damage.

 

Also remember, there's no such thing as too much overkill.  Go big or go home.  I did a concept build named Toggle Man (based on the prose linked in my signature).  He has exactly two click attacks: Lunge and Boxing.  All the rest of his damage comes from auras (he's spines/dark armor scrapper).  His auras are larded up with damage procs and the build is shockingly good against crowds of enemies.

[TheMoneyMaker]

3 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

Actually Depends would be a worse mitigation power set as it only helps a little against smashing attacks to the rear area.

Actually Depends is a brand name enhancement for your rear area.

[Sovera]

There is a lot of variables and most have been brought up already. Just to make a few things clear(er):

 

- The -res procs don't stack. If someone else has them slotted then your own are doing nothing other than maybe adding in the uptime.

 

- The lower the level of the enemies the better the -res procs are. The higher the level the less useful. This is why they are so overblown in this community since the usual target for tests is a +0 pylon. At +0 having two -res procs in your build adds rough 25% more damage. At +3 this goes down to 4-5% (tested against AVs using damage procs and then swapping them for -res procs).

 

-  The 'huge' gains of 25% don't mean you'll do 25% more damage in short fights. Normal mobs have very little HP and first you need to hit them, get the -res to proc, then keep hitting while doing extra damage per hit. Between chance for the proc to hit and actually hitting the enemy there is a good chance it is already dead. A damage proc would just do the damage upfront instead.

 

- If you're solo you're killing more slowly, so you might appreciate the -res. On the other hand you might prefer the upfront damage to help burst mobs faster. I can't answer this for you so it's your decision.

 

- If you're in a team (and no one else has the -res procs slotted) you might help with everyone doing 4-5% more damage which multiplied by 8 is still decent. If you find AVs to be more than a speedbump it's something that you can do.

[tidge]

I am of the general opinion that for most of the scenarios of play, %damage is better than %-Resistance.  <- I write this because I'll advocate for the few cases when I think %-Res can be better. In the linked thread (above) I repeatedly explain why %-Resistance has sooo many things working against it.

 

0) The same source of -Resistance will not stack, but it will extend the duration.

 

1) If a Mastermind can keep -Resistance in play, the henchmen will (eventually) do more damage than a Mastermind could possibly do with %damage. I have found this true for both large spawns and for Giant Monsters.

 

2) Similar to point 1, if a player is always teaming against primarily "lotsa HP targets" and has more than one reliable %proc attack each with a final (global) recharge time of about 10 seconds, then it is possible (modulo resistance resisting resist debuffs) that a team of relatively mediocre DPS will have faster times. [Masterminds can chain enough sources of the same %-Resistance source and most of the henchmen have mediocre damage]

 

3) Some (solo) builds can get both a reliable %proc power and also have a large number of fast-firing, mediocre damage, attacks. If the %-Resistance sticks, the subsequent rapid-fire attacks could (modulo resistance resisting resist debuffs) do slightly more damage in the subsequent attacks.

 

In the last point: I am specifically thinking about Kheldians, because the alternate forms come with extra rapid-fire attacks and most of those attacks themselves are not good for %procs and the player has to decide how many slots to invest in all those attacks... writing only for myself, even on other characters that have ended up with seven "attacks", I haven't 5-slotted all of them... so any multi-form Kheldian I can consider playing would have some non-human form attacks with 3 slots.

 

I will repeat this from the other thread: if you are a player that primarily wants to apply -Resistance to a single target, just take Weaken Resolve from the Force of Will pool. With only two slots, you can have the first slot be an Accuracy IO and the second slot can be a %-Resistance piece. If Weaken Resolve hits, it will always apply it's longer-duration debuffs and it has a very decent chance to apply the %-Resistance for the gamblers.