Rad Armor /Battle Axe

[The_Traveler]

Has anyone experimented with this combo?  i Just started one and it seems like it has promise.  chose Rad armor for the gimmicks and because i have this Orc idea in mind. 

 

Spoiler

Pic 

 

Load up the Axe attacks with force feedbacks... party heal, lots of AOE, solid single target... 

rad armor seems solid by the looks of it... not sure if i would lean into resists or try to add defenses as im new to the set.

 

any opinions from this wonderful group?

[Sovera]

I just built one as a Scrapper since I wanted to go ham on damage. On a Tanker there is nothing bad to point out. Axe is an endurance guzzler but Rad handily takes care of that. A procced out Radiation Therapy heals and hurts the enemy, ditto on Ground Zero, and then Axe's two PbaoEs means we can start a fight unloading four PbAoEs two of which heal.

[Anthraxus]

I have this tank combo, and it is flat-out unkillable; it also consistently maintains recharge above 200% due to the FF procs firing just about every 5 seconds.

 

Radioactive vacuum cleaner blades of doom.

[mcdoogss]

Battle Axe is S-tier now.  Especially when paired with tanker primaries that add damage of their own and have powerful click powers.  
 

My personal favorite is Bio/Axe but Rad armor is similar, with less reliance for survival on clicks.  Both more than compensate for BAs endurance usage, and both benefit from the KD soft control and +recharge from FF procs.  
 

My suggestion is to build for res, dmg, and recharge first, and only add defense after satisfied with that.  Defense on rad/ is an ablation layer due to no DDR, and being hard capped to all dmg besides cold is enough survivability against content that doesnt do -defense and more defense wont help much against enemies that do strip defense.  Plus in group content chances are your teammates will be layering you with defense buffs.

 

solo, your 4 pbaoes (pendulum is effectively a pbaoe) will make short work of pretty much any groups and rad therapy will patch up dmg from the alpha you soak up.  By the time they stand up the second time the spawn should be down to bosses lol

Edited May 27 by mcdoogss

[Erratic1]

56 minutes ago, mcdoogss said:

My personal favorite is Bio/Axe but Rad armor is similar, with less reliance for survival on clicks.

 

Rad has the same number of survival related click powers as Bio (and an additional click power in Ground Zero).

 

Looking at the powers from the survival standpoint:

 

Bio: Ablative Carapace [+Absorption/Regen], DNA Siphon [+HP/End per target hit], Parasitic Aura [+Absorption/Regen per target hit, Foe -Dam]

Rad: Radiation Therapy [+HP/End], Particle Shielding [+Absorption], Meltdown [+Resistance/Recovery]

 

Will also note Radiation Therapy and Particle Shielding are up every 60s versus every 90s for Carapace and DNA Siphon, though Meltdown is up only every 480s compared to Parasitic Aura being up every 270s. In 480s you could click Particle Shielding and Radiation Therapy 8 times each along with Meltdown once for 17 clicks.  In 270s you could click Ablative Carapace and DNA Siphon 3 times each and Parasitic Aura once for 7 clicks. So Rad is providing survivability clicks on average every 470/17=28.24s versus 270/7=38.57s. So Bio has less capacity for clicking survival powers than Rad does.

 

Admittedly that does not address how often one needs to click a power to stay standing. Maybe Radiation has the capacity to click more often but never does. But I will say from my experience, I am click Rad's powers more often than I do on Bio, having played both Bio and Rad Tankers and Brutes.

 

 

 

[mcdoogss]

My main point was that Bio needs ablative, dna siphon, and PA for survival more than Rad needs rad therapy, PS, and meltdown. Especially in -defense environments as bios resistances wont be nearly as comprehensively hard capped, especially if like me you are running in offensive as much as possible.   Meltdown isn't really a survival power on a built Rad tanker as you can already be hard capped with a stack or two of res procs to all damage but cold.

 

On my rad/fire i also click rad armor powers more often than i click bio powers on my bio-axe, but thats largely down to rad therapy (and ground zero) being proc bombs. As I said before, Meltdown is mainly an offensive power from the mid 40s or so
 

also a fully saturated PA means you generally don’t need ablative/dna for 45 seconds at least, that really cuts down on clicks.  Unless the content is trivial, I'm using ablative or PA every spawn proactively to avoid Sudden Bio Faceplant Syndrome.  With Rad generally PS/RT is reactive outside of proc bombing RT with much slower HP loss due to higher across the board resistances

Edited May 27 by mcdoogss

[Sanguinesun]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:11 PM, mcdoogss said:

Battle Axe is S-tier now.  Especially when paired with tanker primaries that add damage of their own and have powerful click powers.  

 

Spoiler

Ssshhh.  First rule of Axing is we dont talk about Axing....   

 

😉

[Kachooman]

On 5/27/2024 at 11:11 PM, mcdoogss said:

Battle Axe is S-tier now.  Especially when paired with tanker primaries that add damage of their own and have powerful click powers.  
 

My personal favorite is Bio/Axe but Rad armor is similar, with less reliance for survival on clicks.  Both more than compensate for BAs endurance usage, and both benefit from the KD soft control and +recharge from FF procs.  
 

My suggestion is to build for res, dmg, and recharge first, and only add defense after satisfied with that.  Defense on rad/ is an ablation layer due to no DDR, and being hard capped to all dmg besides cold is enough survivability against content that doesnt do -defense and more defense wont help much against enemies that do strip defense.  Plus in group content chances are your teammates will be layering you with defense buffs.

 

solo, your 4 pbaoes (pendulum is effectively a pbaoe) will make short work of pretty much any groups and rad therapy will patch up dmg from the alpha you soak up.  By the time they stand up the second time the spawn should be down to bosses lol

What powers are skipable with Bio/Axe? I know beheader isn't great, kinda everything else looks good though!

[DarkRevelation]

I've been running this combo, and it is a lot of fun. Great mitigation through KD, a lot of Force Feedback procs, and is very versatile. I used @Spaghetti Betty's Air Fryer build and tweaked it for Battle Axe. I love how they build, and am in agreement on getting full recharge protection, or as close to it as possible with sacrifices. There is nothing worse IMO than building for perma-*, relying on that, and having it trashed by mobs. I have used their Air Fryer build to do most things in game, and it is the best Hami tank that I have, by far, when certain incarnates are picked. This is nothing but a rework of the secondary powers. The build design, construction and vision are all @Spaghetti Betty. 

 

This has the best debuff resistances of any build I have. 

 

86.5% Debuff resistance to Endurance, Recovery, and ToHit without outside buffs (cap is 95%)

95.41% Debuff Resistance to Recharge Time without outside buffs (cap is 100%)

89.06% Debuff to Regeneration (Using the Spiritual Core Paragon Alpha Slot and keeping the Radiation Therapy buff up) without outside buffs (cap is 95%)

                      -78.71% when using the Musculature Alpha and keeping the Radiation Therapy buff up

 

 

I tweaked a few things, Meltdown for example, as I am currently testing adding +4 KB protection with the knockdown changes, because of how those changes are adversely affecting resistance builds. I am very thankful people like @Spaghetti Betty put their builds out there, as you can never learn enough for looking at what others have done.  Thank you SB, you absolutely rock.

 

 

Tanker - Modified Spaghetti Betty Air Fryer for Battle Axe (Radiation Armor - Battle Axe).mbd

[Solus Nova]

So what are the Axe powers that are able to be skipped? Someone asked in this thread and I never saw the answer.

[Aeroprism]

On 6/20/2024 at 9:23 AM, DarkRevelation said:

I've been running this combo, and it is a lot of fun. Great mitigation through KD, a lot of Force Feedback procs, and is very versatile. I used @Spaghetti Betty's Air Fryer build and tweaked it for Battle Axe. I love how they build, and am in agreement on getting full recharge protection, or as close to it as possible with sacrifices. There is nothing worse IMO than building for perma-*, relying on that, and having it trashed by mobs. I have used their Air Fryer build to do most things in game, and it is the best Hami tank that I have, by far, when certain incarnates are picked. This is nothing but a rework of the secondary powers. The build design, construction and vision are all @Spaghetti Betty. 

 

This has the best debuff resistances of any build I have. 

 

86.5% Debuff resistance to Endurance, Recovery, and ToHit without outside buffs (cap is 95%)

95.41% Debuff Resistance to Recharge Time without outside buffs (cap is 100%)

89.06% Debuff to Regeneration (Using the Spiritual Core Paragon Alpha Slot and keeping the Radiation Therapy buff up) without outside buffs (cap is 95%)

                      -78.71% when using the Musculature Alpha and keeping the Radiation Therapy buff up

 

 

I tweaked a few things, Meltdown for example, as I am currently testing adding +4 KB protection with the knockdown changes, because of how those changes are adversely affecting resistance builds. I am very thankful people like @Spaghetti Betty put their builds out there, as you can never learn enough for looking at what others have done.  Thank you SB, you absolutely rock.

 

 

Tanker - Modified Spaghetti Betty Air Fryer for Battle Axe (Radiation Armor - Battle Axe).mbd 44.54 kB · 21 downloads

 

Do all these Perfect Zinger procs really work on pure melee attacks?  I mean, nice build, but it feels a little proc-heavy to me.

[mcdoogss]

8 hours ago, Solus Nova said:

So what are the Axe powers that are able to be skipped? Someone asked in this thread and I never saw the answer.

Beheader for sure, taunt if you are the type to skip taunt.  One of gash/cleave could be dropped (although both are good powers on their own).  Swoop, pendulum, axe cyclone are must haves

[Aeroprism]

You know what?  Going to have to apologize to @DarkRevelation for doubting their intent there: procs practically invite themselves to this build. 

 

Why?  Well I'm so glad you asked.

 

Radiation Armor is a resistance set, but most of the IO sets this build can slot, thanks to Axe Melee, are geared toward upping defense.  Now, you might think "I'll try to squeeze as much defense as I can from this and the rest will be mitigated by the armor set's inherent resistance values.  Is this a good idea?  Maybe.  Probably not.  As far as I know, Rad armor doesn't have DDR so if you build a tiny hesitant defense moat around this tanker, it might break easily.

 

So why not go full resists?  Rad armor is filled with solid heals and with Axe's ability to slot FF's Chance for Recharge, it's like being able to heal every few seconds so, you can live with a steady but small damage income.

 

Building full resists is easy, especially if you enjoy frankenslotting, which is an art I need to practice anyways, I tend to use full sets all the time which limits my options, this is a good learning opportunity. So this is what I tried and it left me with ample room for procs because most powers needed maybe 3 slots to get the biggest resistance payoff.

 

The difference with my build and the one DarkRevelation made?  I went full crazy on resists.  I sacrificed a few procs, moved a thing or two and made this build so it can use Meltdown as often as possible and with that up, maxing pretty much everything except cold.  Sure, I'll have a little less theoretical-proc DPS but that's something that can be adjusted if I feel this tank is too solid.

 

So the build is similar, but different.  Both are valid I think.  Currently level 18, can't wait to see if it works.


Xenobys.mbd

Edited June 28 by Aeroprism

[DarkRevelation]

12 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

 

Do all these Perfect Zinger procs really work on pure melee attacks?  I mean, nice build, but it feels a little proc-heavy to me.

 

edit - I saw your reply while I was typing this out. I am going to put this out there anyway, as it goes down a path about procs that I think needs addressing. For lack of a better term, 'Winter is coming'.

 

 

The procs are in the attacks with the longer recharges. Chop and Gash don't proc very well because of the lower recharge time, so they are the place to put your sets that you want the bonuses from. The Superior Might of the Tanker - Chance for Res proc I have in Chop (listed as six procs per minute in MIDS) is not going to proc at 90%. Typically it takes a few swings to get it going. 

 

So this is the point I say 'Yes, they work" in the other attacks, but you remain skeptical. My suggestion is to take this build, or any build you are interested in or question, to the test server and play with it a little bit. MIDS makes it easy to copy the build, plus you can export the build's IOs and import them into the Test/Brainstorm server, which saves a lot of time. (File --> Export --> Export build to Beta server (Menu)).

 

Regarding procs; I guess this is as good of a place to bring all of this up as any. I am going to preface this next part by saying there will always be a place for tanks of multiple types in CoH. Anyone can choose to play the way they have always played, and there will be a role for that. Anyone can build a tank and do most of the content without much fuss, and there will always be a debate about which is bigger/faster/stronger/better/etc. like it has been since the beginning. There is nothing wrong with any of that. 

 

With that said, there are parts of the game that are changing for better or worse, i.e. advanced/hard mode, and unless you adapt you will be left behind, if that is what you are looking to do. There is an absolutely incredible post by @Projector that sadly got diddly squat for replies or responses. 

 

Thank you very much @Projector for putting that out there. This is by far the best information on Hard Mode/Advanced Mode/whatever you want to call it that I have seen so far pertaining to a tank in this content. After watching the video there is no way a 'normal' build will ever work in that content. I have run enough 1 star stuff to realize that it is going to take a different approach and either adapt or die. Spaghetti Betty has quietly brought it up multiple times about how some no longer believe that a tank is necessary because as things are right now, the damage output is not meeting the standard required for this content.

 

Bluntly, and this is going to REALLY hurt some of you to hear but it needs said. In order to succeed in this mode it appears that very high damage has to be done by all parties, defense is going to be handled by incarnates, and you as the tanker will have to be able to 'quarterback' the encounter. 'Quarterback' means your positioning, the mob positioning, direction of movement, watching out for teammates positioning and adjusting all of it on the fly. You are not going to be able to do this content in just any build. Your role of the past doesn't work anymore for the most part. Good tanks have always 'quarterbacked' encounters, so that will not change for some. This is a tough pill for some to swallow. I have seen people get really angry about hard mode and what it will require. To be honest it reminds me of some of how it used to be in the beginning of the game when you had to have tanks of a certain kind to do certain things. There was a reason you saw a lot of granite and invuln tanks in the beginning. Now it is damage plus a lot more, and that brings me back around to where I was going.

 

We need higher damage to keep up, and procs is the only way we can realistically do it. This build I posted is not a build for advanced/hard mode, but you are going to start seeing more and more very proc heavy builds coming I believe. If you want to really dig into very high damage output go crawl down the pylon times wormhole and look at how they are getting their damage. These builds are super proc heavy for all ATs. Most of these are 'not sustainable' for regular content because they do not offer any resistance/defense/status protection/etc. What happens though when you take one of those 'non sustainable' builds and provide resistance/defense/status protection/etc. via incarnates through a team and have them rotated to stay up all of the time?  I think you will see more and more of this over the next few years, as they are going to keep putting out harder and harder content. @Projector made a comment in that video that should grab everyone's attention; Four star Omega K'ong has more HP than Hamidon does. I haven't verified that myself, but that should put into perspective what level of commitment is required to beat this content. Winter is truly coming, if it isn't here already, and if you want in on this content radical changes must be made. 

[Aeroprism]

@DarkRevelation That is really awesome info! I wasn't even aware that such a change was happening and I'm glad it is! It will be a good change from the solo +4x8 steamrolls!

 

Good stuff.  Can't wait to learn from this.

[DarkRevelation]

11 minutes ago, Aeroprism said:

@DarkRevelation That is really awesome info! I wasn't even aware that such a change was happening and I'm glad it is! It will be a good change from the solo +4x8 steamrolls!

 

Good stuff.  Can't wait to learn from this.

 

I don't now how well or how much it will catch on. It isn't something you can do in a PUG, there isn't any way to really practice the mechanics, and it takes a real commitment to even look at doing it. That will eliminate a lot of folk right out of the gate. Its there though, and it certainly has my attention. I am trying to work through the information available so I can start doing more and more of it. I've been testing all kinds of builds of multiple ATs on the test server to see what works and what doesn't. It requires finding the right bunch of folk though, and I haven't found that yet. I figure it will eventually work itself out through. 

[ZemX]

25 minutes ago, DarkRevelation said:

We need higher damage to keep up, and procs is the only way we can realistically do it.

 

Makes sense.  Rather than swallowing the bitter pill that would be actually fixing the broken bullshit that is %dmg procs... Hard Modes were built on top of it.

 

Incorporating global recharge into the PPM calculation would be a small change to do... but oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would ensue!  There isn't enough popcorn in the world for that flamewar.

 

Can't say I blame them for going this route, given that.  But it's also made me very much not interested in bothering with 4* HMs.  I wonder how many people actually do.   They aren't that visible in /lfg probably because they aren't run by PuGs very often.  Only the HC devs probably know how popular 4* actually is.

[Aeroprism]

As I said, I'll be glad to learn because I just love the data aspect of this game, but given how I'm not very good at playing it and that the few people I play with are super casual, I doubt I'll be a really good customer.

[DarkRevelation]

6 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Makes sense.  Rather than swallowing the bitter pill that would be actually fixing the broken bullshit that is %dmg procs... Hard Modes were built on top of it.

 

Incorporating global recharge into the PPM calculation would be a small change to do... but oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would ensue!  There isn't enough popcorn in the world for that flamewar.

 

Can't say I blame them for going this route, given that.  But it's also made me very much not interested in bothering with 4* HMs.  I wonder how many people actually do.   They aren't that visible in /lfg probably because they aren't run by PuGs very often.  Only the HC devs probably know how popular 4* actually is.

 

 

Well, it reminds me of an old song, "Locomotive Breath" by Jethro Tull.

 

And the train — it won't stop going
No way to slow down

 

 Who knows where it will end up? It is what it is though, and it is here.

[Projector]

On 6/28/2024 at 10:04 AM, DarkRevelation said:

 

Thank you very much @Projector for putting that out there. This is by far the best information on Hard Mode/Advanced Mode/whatever you want to call it that I have seen so far pertaining to a tank in this content. After watching the video there is no way a 'normal' build will ever work in that content. I have run enough 1 star stuff to realize that it is going to take a different approach and either adapt or die. Spaghetti Betty has quietly brought it up multiple times about how some no longer believe that a tank is necessary because as things are right now, the damage output is not meeting the standard required for this content.

 

Bluntly, and this is going to REALLY hurt some of you to hear but it needs said. In order to succeed in this mode it appears that very high damage has to be done by all parties, defense is going to be handled by incarnates, and you as the tanker will have to be able to 'quarterback' the encounter. 'Quarterback' means your positioning, the mob positioning, direction of movement, watching out for teammates positioning and adjusting all of it on the fly. You are not going to be able to do this content in just any build. Your role of the past doesn't work anymore for the most part. Good tanks have always 'quarterbacked' encounters, so that will not change for some. This is a tough pill for some to swallow. I have seen people get really angry about hard mode and what it will require. To be honest it reminds me of some of how it used to be in the beginning of the game when you had to have tanks of a certain kind to do certain things. There was a reason you saw a lot of granite and invuln tanks in the beginning. Now it is damage plus a lot more, and that brings me back around to where I was going.

 

We need higher damage to keep up, and procs is the only way we can realistically do it. This build I posted is not a build for advanced/hard mode, but you are going to start seeing more and more very proc heavy builds coming I believe. If you want to really dig into very high damage output go crawl down the pylon times wormhole and look at how they are getting their damage. These builds are super proc heavy for all ATs. Most of these are 'not sustainable' for regular content because they do not offer any resistance/defense/status protection/etc. What happens though when you take one of those 'non sustainable' builds and provide resistance/defense/status protection/etc. via incarnates through a team and have them rotated to stay up all of the time?  I think you will see more and more of this over the next few years, as they are going to keep putting out harder and harder content. @Projector made a comment in that video that should grab everyone's attention; Four star Omega K'ong has more HP than Hamidon does. I haven't verified that myself, but that should put into perspective what level of commitment is required to beat this content. Winter is truly coming, if it isn't here already, and if you want in on this content radical changes must be made. 

First, thank you so much for the kind words. I've been working on hard on making Hard Mode more accessible from the resources I have available. It really means a lot to me that the post was so helpful for you and made such a big impact! 

I was honestly a little surprised the guide got such little active response, whether positive or negative. But, I do have more coming regardless!

That being said, I do want to make one thing really clear that I don't think I've done enough: You absolutely can do all of the hardmode TFs without proc builds and with normal PVE builds. It's moreso that you're wasting build space that could be used to put toward damage via procs, regen, and HP, since barriers will cap your def/res. 4*-optimized builds are for efficiency and speed, but they are not required to beat the TFs.

I'm actually running a 4* Aeon tomorrow night that will be normal PVE builds, and have no Kinetics, Nature, Cold Dom, Ice Blast, Fire Blast, Battle Axe, or Bio/Rad Armor. All of these are the top meta powersets for 4* content. It's definitely possible, and it will likely be easier to survive! The real problem is how much LONGER it will take to complete.

You really just need the following roles: 1 Taunt for aggro control, 2 DPS, 2 Debuff, 2 Def Buff, 2 healers (Kin & Nature or EA are the best combo for healers). I know that totals 9, that's why Cold Domination is so good--Defense buffs AND huge debuffs in one set 🙂 

The difference between proc builds and general content builds in 4* content is being done with the 4* in 30-45 minutes versus being done in 2-3 hours. That's why they matter. There's a reason it's so hard to Shadow Shard TFs, and it's not their difficulty. It's their length.

Procs are great, but they require too many conditions to be met to be used for generalized content. They're really only effective in situations where you can rely on your team/league to assist with buffs--iTrials, MSRs, Hami raids, and Hardmode content

[Spaghetti Betty]

On 6/28/2024 at 9:04 AM, DarkRevelation said:

 

edit - I saw your reply while I was typing this out. I am going to put this out there anyway, as it goes down a path about procs that I think needs addressing. For lack of a better term, 'Winter is coming'.

 

 

The procs are in the attacks with the longer recharges. Chop and Gash don't proc very well because of the lower recharge time, so they are the place to put your sets that you want the bonuses from. The Superior Might of the Tanker - Chance for Res proc I have in Chop (listed as six procs per minute in MIDS) is not going to proc at 90%. Typically it takes a few swings to get it going. 

 

So this is the point I say 'Yes, they work" in the other attacks, but you remain skeptical. My suggestion is to take this build, or any build you are interested in or question, to the test server and play with it a little bit. MIDS makes it easy to copy the build, plus you can export the build's IOs and import them into the Test/Brainstorm server, which saves a lot of time. (File --> Export --> Export build to Beta server (Menu)).

 

Regarding procs; I guess this is as good of a place to bring all of this up as any. I am going to preface this next part by saying there will always be a place for tanks of multiple types in CoH. Anyone can choose to play the way they have always played, and there will be a role for that. Anyone can build a tank and do most of the content without much fuss, and there will always be a debate about which is bigger/faster/stronger/better/etc. like it has been since the beginning. There is nothing wrong with any of that. 

 

With that said, there are parts of the game that are changing for better or worse, i.e. advanced/hard mode, and unless you adapt you will be left behind, if that is what you are looking to do. There is an absolutely incredible post by @Projector that sadly got diddly squat for replies or responses. 

 

Thank you very much @Projector for putting that out there. This is by far the best information on Hard Mode/Advanced Mode/whatever you want to call it that I have seen so far pertaining to a tank in this content. After watching the video there is no way a 'normal' build will ever work in that content. I have run enough 1 star stuff to realize that it is going to take a different approach and either adapt or die. Spaghetti Betty has quietly brought it up multiple times about how some no longer believe that a tank is necessary because as things are right now, the damage output is not meeting the standard required for this content.

 

Bluntly, and this is going to REALLY hurt some of you to hear but it needs said. In order to succeed in this mode it appears that very high damage has to be done by all parties, defense is going to be handled by incarnates, and you as the tanker will have to be able to 'quarterback' the encounter. 'Quarterback' means your positioning, the mob positioning, direction of movement, watching out for teammates positioning and adjusting all of it on the fly. You are not going to be able to do this content in just any build. Your role of the past doesn't work anymore for the most part. Good tanks have always 'quarterbacked' encounters, so that will not change for some. This is a tough pill for some to swallow. I have seen people get really angry about hard mode and what it will require. To be honest it reminds me of some of how it used to be in the beginning of the game when you had to have tanks of a certain kind to do certain things. There was a reason you saw a lot of granite and invuln tanks in the beginning. Now it is damage plus a lot more, and that brings me back around to where I was going.

 

We need higher damage to keep up, and procs is the only way we can realistically do it. This build I posted is not a build for advanced/hard mode, but you are going to start seeing more and more very proc heavy builds coming I believe. If you want to really dig into very high damage output go crawl down the pylon times wormhole and look at how they are getting their damage. These builds are super proc heavy for all ATs. Most of these are 'not sustainable' for regular content because they do not offer any resistance/defense/status protection/etc. What happens though when you take one of those 'non sustainable' builds and provide resistance/defense/status protection/etc. via incarnates through a team and have them rotated to stay up all of the time?  I think you will see more and more of this over the next few years, as they are going to keep putting out harder and harder content. @Projector made a comment in that video that should grab everyone's attention; Four star Omega K'ong has more HP than Hamidon does. I haven't verified that myself, but that should put into perspective what level of commitment is required to beat this content. Winter is truly coming, if it isn't here already, and if you want in on this content radical changes must be made. 

Good call out! I appreciate the mention.

 

Yes, it is true that Tanks are left behind at the very top end of gameplay. There is nothing they can't do that a specialized Brute or Scrapper can't do just as well or better! A single target taunt is all that is required for most challenging encounters in 4* content, and mitigation is being handled by the support and Barrier rotations. What this means is DPS becomes the huge deciding factor in clear speed and overall efficiency. Tanks are able to bridge the gap a little bit by leveraging heavily offensive-leaning builds to compliment their already strong base mitigation. Much like the Rad/Axe build DR posted above!

 

I will say I have noted that Tanks are making a bit of a comeback as the Omega K'ong encounter becomes more optimized. The AoE Taunt is more convenient for dragging in the Magus/Suit/Scientist ambushes (and is usually followed by a Fold Space and nukes), and combat strategies have made up for the marginal loss in DPS that comes with having them in the Taunt role. This also comes with the massive caveat that the Tanker is proc'd to the gills.

 

To keep on topic, the skippables in Axe are Beheader and Cleave! Cleave is saddled with the unfortunate flaw of having terrible DPA against a single target. I would suggest going Fire Mastery for Char and Fire Ball!

[DarkRevelation]

On 6/29/2024 at 11:11 PM, Projector said:

First, thank you so much for the kind words. I've been working on hard on making Hard Mode more accessible from the resources I have available. It really means a lot to me that the post was so helpful for you and made such a big impact! 

I was honestly a little surprised the guide got such little active response, whether positive or negative. But, I do have more coming regardless!

That being said, I do want to make one thing really clear that I don't think I've done enough: You absolutely can do all of the hardmode TFs without proc builds and with normal PVE builds. It's moreso that you're wasting build space that could be used to put toward damage via procs, regen, and HP, since barriers will cap your def/res. 4*-optimized builds are for efficiency and speed, but they are not required to beat the TFs.

I'm actually running a 4* Aeon tomorrow night that will be normal PVE builds, and have no Kinetics, Nature, Cold Dom, Ice Blast, Fire Blast, Battle Axe, or Bio/Rad Armor. All of these are the top meta powersets for 4* content. It's definitely possible, and it will likely be easier to survive! The real problem is how much LONGER it will take to complete.

You really just need the following roles: 1 Taunt for aggro control, 2 DPS, 2 Debuff, 2 Def Buff, 2 healers (Kin & Nature or EA are the best combo for healers). I know that totals 9, that's why Cold Domination is so good--Defense buffs AND huge debuffs in one set 🙂 

The difference between proc builds and general content builds in 4* content is being done with the 4* in 30-45 minutes versus being done in 2-3 hours. That's why they matter. There's a reason it's so hard to Shadow Shard TFs, and it's not their difficulty. It's their length.

Procs are great, but they require too many conditions to be met to be used for generalized content. They're really only effective in situations where you can rely on your team/league to assist with buffs--iTrials, MSRs, Hami raids, and Hardmode content

@Projector, no, thank you for shedding light where there was none. I haven't seen anything anywhere about the tankers' role in * content until your post, which led to your videos. It is a subject that is mostly unknown to the player base, and not easy to break into alone. Content like that will open it up to people who are interested but don't know where to get started. 

 

I feel bad that I have semi-hijacked this thread, so I want to reference this post under your guide and pick back up over there. I'd love to pick your brain about some ideas, and see what you think. I have gone down some rabbit holes lately, and would love to see where it tracks with what you are seeing. 

 

On 6/30/2024 at 2:43 PM, Spaghetti Betty said:

Good call out! I appreciate the mention.

 

Yes, it is true that Tanks are left behind at the very top end of gameplay. There is nothing they can't do that a specialized Brute or Scrapper can't do just as well or better! A single target taunt is all that is required for most challenging encounters in 4* content, and mitigation is being handled by the support and Barrier rotations. What this means is DPS becomes the huge deciding factor in clear speed and overall efficiency. Tanks are able to bridge the gap a little bit by leveraging heavily offensive-leaning builds to compliment their already strong base mitigation. Much like the Rad/Axe build DR posted above!

 

I will say I have noted that Tanks are making a bit of a comeback as the Omega K'ong encounter becomes more optimized. The AoE Taunt is more convenient for dragging in the Magus/Suit/Scientist ambushes (and is usually followed by a Fold Space and nukes), and combat strategies have made up for the marginal loss in DPS that comes with having them in the Taunt role. This also comes with the massive caveat that the Tanker is proc'd to the gills.

 

To keep on topic, the skippables in Axe are Beheader and Cleave! Cleave is saddled with the unfortunate flaw of having terrible DPA against a single target. I would suggest going Fire Mastery for Char and Fire Ball!

 

@Spaghetti Betty Please come over to that thread in the Guide section and share some of your thoughts on that content, and strategies to attack it. I think the world of your builds, and have used two of them quite a bit.  I appreciate you putting them out there and your insights into the game. I have done some fun stuff with your builds, and would love to discuss some of the ideas and testing I have done. 

 

 

Thank you both for speaking up and growing the game. People are listening, even if it doesn't always seem like they are.