High level enemy group revamps

[tidge]

I don't think the original post deserves a thumbs-down for the feels, but I disagree with everything in the OP.

 

The Council was the preferred punching bag because they had mediocre controls, generally sub-standard resistances, and aside from from a couple of types that prefer to stand in place there was nothing about the AI behavior that made them especially annoying to face... they wouldn't teleport, phase, etc.

 

The revamp has given the Council more than what most other factions have, but what they got is 100% in line with what I would expect 35+ level enemies to have... especially given the sort of Lore elements they are supposed to have access to.

 

The only time I was annoyed (but ultimately pleasantly surprised) by the new Council was on soloing a Warshade. There was a final arc boss that became what I felt might have been a little too powerful for a solo Kheldian, but ultimately I treated it like a strategic challenge and dealt with it. I've noticed no real changes on PUGs with Moonfire or Hess.

 

If players are looking for level 50 punching bags from radio/newspaper missions, there are still a couple of other factions that haven't been improved and can be pretty easy to mow down. Yes you might have to face *gasp*  Malta Sappers or *double gasp* Illusionists, but my experience is that those groups fall quickly to certain damage types.

[Eiko-chan]

Do we even play the same game? Malta and Carnival have never been the most annoying groups, at least not since Going Rogue. The groups added in Praetoria were the gold standard for toughness, and the new Council outstrips even them.

[tidge]

6 minutes ago, Eiko-chan said:

Do we even play the same game? Malta and Carnival have never been the most annoying groups, at least not since Going Rogue. The groups added in Praetoria were the gold standard for toughness, and the new Council outstrips even them.

 

I don't consider the IDF to be particularly tough; the most problematic thing about them is that so many of them don't move into melee combat. The IDF isn't a common enemy faction in radio missions, and IIRC they only appear as secondary spawns in level 40+ tip missions.

 

At the end of Live, I would probably put Rularuu at or near the top as one of the most annoying groups to face at +4x8.

 

EDIT: Upon reflection, I suppose the new Council remind me a little bit of the Animus Arcana, which can be quite annoying. I think it is possible for players to play the game without ever encountering those however. I liked that the Black Knights would regularly use Taunts, something that was added (or improved) for Crey.

Edited May 9 by tidge

[Eiko-chan]

Okay, we don't play the same game, because I don't even DO radio missions. I do contact missions, and many of the new story arcs (both PS Freedom stuff and HC stuff) feature the Praetorian-era enemy groups. 

[tidge]

The radios/newspapers are the way to get Safeguard/Mayhem missions (modulo specific badge unlocks), and the Tip missions are a nice change of pace. They are not gutter content.

[Eiko-chan]

Mayhem Missions are awesome. Safeguard missions are, in fact, gutter content. They aren't comparable. Safeguards were a bone thrown to Hero players that were mad Villains had something cool, but it wasn't a very good bone. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

17 hours ago, Eiko-chan said:

Where am I supposed to discuss this topic? Why the hell is the Council hard now? Who's fucking idea was this and why is it just allowed to happen!? 

To answer your question, since it doesn't appear that anyone else is, a small group of people spent a little over a year spamming the forums with threads complaining that "Game too easy, bruh!" Every day there was at least one new thread with that subject. Day after day after day after day. Over and over and over and again. For over a year.

 

Meanwhile the Council of Thirteen checked the game metrics and noticed that a sizeable portion of the game play, that wasn't AE farming, was people steamrolling Council PI Radio missions. Day after day after day. Over and over and over again.

 

So they responded by creating a Hard Mode for a new task force and implied that they'll be rolling out this Hard Mode setting to other task forces in the future. But that didn't stop the onslaught of constant "Game too easy, bruh!" threads.

 

So they then revamped the Council and the CoT to be more difficult because that's what people who spent so much time spamming the forums wanted.

[Lunar Ronin]

1 minute ago, Eiko-chan said:

Mayhem Missions are awesome. Safeguard missions are, in fact, gutter content. They aren't comparable. Safeguards were a bone thrown to Hero players that were mad Villains had something cool, but it wasn't a very good bone. 

 

Not to mention that there are easier and less dull ways to unlock both mayhem and safeguard missions now.

[tidge]

Hero Safeguard's do allow you to face off against Lord Recluse as he robs a bank!

[tidge]

Just now, Lunar Ronin said:

 

Not to mention that there are easier and less dull ways to unlock both mayhem and safeguard missions now.

 

4 minutes ago, tidge said:

The radios/newspapers are the way to get Safeguard/Mayhem missions (modulo specific badge unlocks), and the Tip missions are a nice change of pace. They are not gutter content.

 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

There were two similarly titled threads in two different sub-forums that I just merged.  Apologies if that threw off the flow, but at least everyone is literally on the same page now.

[Eiko-chan]

3 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

Also, per the question posed by the title of the OP, you can leave feedback in the Suggestions & Feedback forum. 

I posted in the Suggestions forum because I was literally told to do so by a GM. This moderation action is in direct violation of what the GM told me to do.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Oh dang!  My bad.  I meant to merge into S&F.

 

Reset!

 

[Sanguinesun]

1 hour ago, Eiko-chan said:

Do we even play the same game? Malta and Carnival have never been the most annoying groups, at least not since Going Rogue. The groups added in Praetoria were the gold standard for toughness, and the new Council outstrips even them.

 

 

I consider the Archons to now be mini AV's.  They're essentially over-tuned, but as you've seen, the response you get is "bring them in line with" or they were too easy etc.   As the feature creep tree marking continues, more will be "made more in line" to the point that it'll cycle up and up.  That's the intention.  Not smacked all at once but over time with the dismissiveness against those criticizing it, as has been seen for a few years now.    This wasnt the first and certainly wont be the last to be sure. 

Edited May 9 by Sanguinesun

[lemming]

Hmm.  Carnies and Malta are annoying with their Endurance sapping, though with them, it's easy to avoid if you're not just jumping in without looking around.   Carnies go down fast from lethal, but some chars have difficulty.

Council didn't have any real strengths, so they got some buffs, but for most of my chars, they're just a little chewier.  The FREEM KB was the only thing I thought was a bit overdone with them, but iirc, someone said it's got a reachable resist now?

 

Arachnos I find are more likely to be a tougher fight, mainly from various debuffs and more of a mix of powers.  IDF is similar for me.

 

Steamrolling is still happening, even at +4/x8 with teams.

[Frostbiter]

1 hour ago, Eiko-chan said:

Do we even play the same game? Malta and Carnival have never been the most annoying groups, at least not since Going Rogue. The groups added in Praetoria were the gold standard for toughness, and the new Council outstrips even them.

 

The Carnival of Shadows haven't been a problem since the amount of summons the Illusionists and Master Illusionists create were nerfed to correspond to team size.

[Bionic_Flea]

I argued during beta that they should not change Council and CoT.  I did not and do not want changes to the existing base game but absolutely want new challenging content like they made with the new hard mode stuff.  Others thought differently, including the devs.

 

However, now that it's been in game for a bit, I find it more of a speed bump than a wall.  It's a bit slower and inconvenient, but I can still get past it easy enough.

 

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but what AT and powersets are you having a hard time with Council x8.  It may be that new Council is particularly strong against what you are bringing.  For example, SR laughs at Malta sappers, but resistance armor melees better take them out fast or risk being left naked.

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

This has been remedied in order to encourage team play at the higher difficulties that are meant to be team content.

And there's the answer there. 
Thankfully, even though task forces (for now) can still be attempted solo, I am anticipating further changes to foster more of this "teaming". This leads me to believe that poor Snarky is going to be very busy writing about all the fun he has teaming with these players that are so helpful in creating memorable experiences. 

[PhotriusPyrelus]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

The game is too easy at the high end.

Is it?  Or is it too easy when you've spent 5 billion influence in Enhancements to reach the absolute pinnacle of power?  I thought the whole point of reaching that peak was to make the game easier and be a walking nuclear bomb...

EDIT:  To expand, it's very strange to me the answer to complaints about difficulty being too high is *always* "turn down the difficulty", but the answer to things being too easy is never "turn down your character's power."

Edited May 9 by PhotriusPyrelus

[Eiko-chan]

13 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but what AT and powersets are you having a hard time with Council x8.  It may be that new Council is particularly strong against what you are bringing.  For example, SR laughs at Malta sappers, but resistance armor melees better take them out fast or risk being left naked.

I am currently levelling a Demon/Pain MM. Key phrase: levelling. This is not a 50. This is not an Incarnate.
I imagine that once I have Clarion Destiny, the difficulty bump with ramp down a lot, but at current level (47 as of this post), this build is handling UPA, IDF, and Arachnos x8 spawns with less difficulty than Council spawns. 
Knockback has always been a sort of soft-counter to MMs, especially area knockback, but the Council revamp is taking this to extremes that not even Fake Nemeses are matching.

Edited May 9 by Eiko-chan

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

Personally, I like the new Council. They aren't chumps anymore. I think Malta needs the next revamp. They've become the chumps at 50 now.

Are you kidding me? Malta is the only group I worry about. Between their extremely long mezzes and their Sappers, if you aren't a melee type and pick off the Sappers 1st, they're a problem.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Lunar Ronin said:

 

Not to mention that there are easier and less dull ways to unlock both mayhem and safeguard missions now.

There are? How? The only other method I know of is through the two dedicated contacts that only give those missions, but you need signature heroes/villains for the Mayhems/Safeguards to get them.

Edited May 9 by Rudra
Edited to add missed "I know of".

[Eiko-chan]

Just now, Rudra said:

There are? How? The only other method is through the two dedicated contacts that only give those missions, but you need signature heroes/villains for the Mayhems/Safeguards to get them.

Signature heroes and villains often appear in Tip missions.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Eiko-chan said:

Signature heroes and villains often appear in Tip missions.

I've only seen maybe a handful of them in Tip missions that you actually fight. Out of the (I think) 25 you need to unlock direct Mayhem/Safeguard access.

Edited May 9 by Rudra
Edited to correct "in" to "of".

[KaizenSoze]

8 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Is it?  Or is it too easy when you've spent 5 billion influence in Enhancements to reach the absolute pinnacle of power?  I thought the whole point of reaching that peak was to make the game easier and be a walking nuclear bomb...

EDIT:  To expand, it's very strange to me the answer to complaints about difficulty being too high is *always* "turn down the difficulty", but the answer to things being too easy is never "turn down your character's power."

I have never had 5 billion in influence. Never will. I have farmed some, crafted a lot, and just played. You make a lot of influence just playing.

 

My problem with high end. Practically no risk for reward. Mob are still getting wiped out incredible quick. So, quick that I can barely have to time to click more than 1-2 attacks sometimes.

 

Doesn't feel fun. Doesn't feel powerful. It's feels boring. Add a "little" bit of difficultly and people might actually have to use a "tiny" bit of teamwork.

 

Also, I have suggested nerfs. I think the problem is on both ends.