High level enemy group revamps

[lemming]

Just to point out, I thought the Cimerorians had "Grant Cover".  May have to go do some power analyzing.

[golstat2003]

12 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

Personally, I like the new Council. They aren't chumps anymore. I think Malta needs the next revamp. They've become the chumps at 50 now.

 

That’s cause we know their schtick. For most of my characters when they see certain Malta Mobs, it’s target first, ask questions later, let <Diety> sort out the bodies later, “on sight” as the kids say. 😛

 

The Carnies and Arachnos in mass numbers I still find deadly as hell at high levels. 

[golstat2003]

11 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I wouldn’t say it’s harder personally, it’s still the same ish CoH to me. If anything Council got kind of a lateral adjustment. Nothing really new to learn with the group, it’s just tedium incarnate for solo players in the faux pass of difficulty. 
 

I view HM as the same. It’s only difficult in the vein of learning the new enemies in say a first run. And even then, if you stack the team in a certain way, that assessment doesn’t hold true either. 
 

I do get where OP is coming from. I was miffed council were going from my get stoned and bash some heads group to ugggh you mean I have to slog through a group of bullet sponge self rezzers?!? 
 

But claiming this group had a learning curve added to it(not by you, but others) makes me wonder if whoever says it has ever played other games with actual difficulty and real learning curves. 

 

Plus you can turn down the difficulty to make them chumps they used to be lol

 

I actually do that anytime I don’t want to deal with any nonsense while playing. Would be nice if the setting made some of the key bosses in the things like the Patron Arc easier. I would not mind a new  -1 setting just for that.

 

(I’d also like a higher setting on the opposite end, that added some of the HM stuff into newspapers. But that would be a miracle long term pipe dream, that I don’t see the devs being able to do until like 2034 lol)

[golstat2003]

10 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Politely disagree. The updated Circle of Thorns and Arachnos are still much nastier than Council. Council are just not the punching bags they used to be.

 

The game is too easy at the high end. Old Council were a joke. Now, at least they are a bit more dangerous. PI radio teams are still ripping through them, just have to use more powers now.

 

Controls are now a bit more useful. They at least speed up the clear time due to holding mobs that can transform or stopping them from using some of their nasty powers like those AOE galaxy powers.

 

Disagree.

 

In pretty much every PuG I’ve be on in the 50s no one bothers with anything than just doing more damage. If the changes goal was to make teams think more or use more tactics like control versus Council, then they failed in that regard.

 

As mr and many others mentioned (including yourself) teams still steam roll them. The Council are sure as heck NOT much more

harder for TEAMS.

 

It just takes a bit longer than before to clear them out with all the rolling super damage incarnated level 50s bring. So mostly more tedious to deal with Council. But not nearly as bad as CoT or Arachnos as you mentioned.

 

Solo Players will and do have a tougher time though with Council. Which was the point lol

[golstat2003]

10 hours ago, tidge said:

Hero Safeguard's do allow you to face off against Lord Recluse as he robs a bank!

 

This is probably the most hilarious aspect of them. Dude is strapped for cash LOL

[golstat2003]

8 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

The game current is probably the most solo friendly is very been. It's so easy to max out Incarnates. The action house is full of enhancement. SG buffs are easily available.

 

As someone who likes running PUG. I know I am weird. I find it enjoyable to gather up 7 stranger and see what happens. At sub 50 levels, around +2/3 sometimes +4 even. It's fun, but at 50 it's just boring. A lot of players have gotten use to easy mode at 50 and don't want to stick around for a "slower" experience. I have noted more satisfaction in team chat when there is actually a bit of a struggle. Extreme versions of that would be AE 801s, but those are extreme missions most people won't join.

 

The solution is to run with smaller

teams. It’s easier to find 1-2 folks who may want to do those harder missions and even AE 801s than it is to find 7 others.

 

I never understood the obsession with team leaders who think the team must always be 8 players all the time. I actually really love team leaders who get us up to 4 or 5 and say “let’s go, we can recruit on the way” and put the mission up soon after joining the team. Saves everyone time.

[Ukase]

9 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

I have never had 5 billion in influence. Never will. I have farmed some, crafted a lot, and just played. You make a lot of influence just playing.

 

My problem with high end. Practically no risk for reward. Mob are still getting wiped out incredible quick. So, quick that I can barely have to time to click more than 1-2 attacks sometimes.

 

Doesn't feel fun. Doesn't feel powerful. It's feels boring. Add a "little" bit of difficultly and people might actually have to use a "tiny" bit of teamwork.

 

Also, I have suggested nerfs. I think the problem is on both ends.

So, knowing you a little bit, I am probably being a little unfair when I ask these questions. 

1. Would you say that you spend more time than other players on figuring out the strengths and weaknesses of your characters than the average player? 
2. Would you say that you're probably inclined to dig deeper into complex problems than the average player? 

I completely get that you would find your excellence at portions of the game to be boring. I also get that you would enjoy more interactive team play, with tactics and strategy coming into play. You recognize that tactics and strategy only enter into bits and pieces of the game, and then the problems are somewhat solved or worked around, eventually. There was a time when folks would try to pull Black Scorpion as opposed to just jumping into the midst of BS, Mako, GW and Scirocco. The difference between these two tactics is generally team composition blended with players sharing what they know about builds here on the forums, and I suppose Reddit to some degree. And, experience. Compared to a lack of same. 

The thing is, while you're certainly entitled to push for and hope for higher risk/reward scenarios, you're not seeing the average player. Or, your just presenting your case - which is completely fine. You're having experiences that I know when I pug, I only see about half the time. The other half is full of dead teammates. They don't have IOs. A level 50 tank who's relying on SOs. And if his teammates had IOs, it wouldn't matter, but 3 of them don't have any either. One is a level 26 controller. No idea why level 40 and lower is even allowed to come to PI now that SGs are really old news. But then again..yeah, I get it. 

In any event, while it may not be most players, there are still a good amount of players that are playing a different game. And while nobody's saying they have to do an advanced mode lady grey, when our hc dev team is boosting the difficulty of radios - the average players bread and butter to get to 50...yeah, they're not likely to enjoy it at all. 

Doesn't make you wrong. Doesn't make them wrong either. Just different. 
There is no need for any revamps of anything. There is a need for more content. That should be the focus. But that's just this man's opinion. 

[Bionic_Flea]

While Kaizen doesn't need me to speak for him, I'm going to anyway.  😛

 

He has spent A LOT of time on the test server and creating a parser to help evaluate powers.  He's too busy to make inf!

 

And he works really hard to find bugs before they make it to the live game.

 

Edited May 10 by Bionic_Flea

[Eiko-chan]

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

 

I should also point out that Homecoming team also allows anyone to sign up for Closed Beta. And the Testers Discord. There are really no barriers from what I see to getting in to look at and discuss future changes to City of Heroes Homecoming. Just a willingness to help test, be a good citizen there, and not leak anything they are working on.

 

There is no excuse for anyone who wants to look at future changes ahead of time and give feedback on them in the Discord, to do so.

I get a bug every few months or so to play and play pretty intensely for a couple weeks, then don't play again for months. I'm a casual hardcore player. Playing on and commenting on a closed beta isn't something on my plate for this game. I have other games I already do that for, both in paid and unpaid fashions.

[Sanguinesun]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

In any event, while it may not be most players, there are still a good amount of players that are playing a different game. And while nobody's saying they have to do an advanced mode lady grey, when our hc dev team is boosting the difficulty of radios - the average players bread and butter to get to 50...yeah, they're not likely to enjoy it at all. 

 

This.   The ones calling for content to continue to be harder, leveling to take exceedingly longer, influence to be harder to gain etc just basically do not care that the majority of the player base as it currently is do not have the same view of the game as they do.  They know this as well and are 100% ok with because they actually detest it being relaxed/inclusive/etc .  That's part of the mindset I was referring to earlier.  To them, the game should be this ever imposed challenge that filters out the rest(majority) of the current player base.   They'll continue to misdirect with "well dont play against x group of mobs"  or "well dont play against x difficulty" or any other reasons to shift focus away from content being changed to be harder.  Then the next time when the next change(and yes there will be more going forward as again this isnt the first time) they'll rinse and repeat similar misdirections for the next batch of feature creep that goes in.

 

 

Edited May 10 by Sanguinesun

[Sanguinesun]

11 minutes ago, Eiko-chan said:

I get a bug every few months or so to play and play pretty intensely for a couple weeks, then don't play again for months. I'm a casual hardcore player. Playing on and commenting on a closed beta isn't something on my plate for this game. I have other games I already do that for, both in paid and unpaid fashions.

 

Their comment was to misdirect and shift blame on you for not having contributed to affecting change prior to the changes being implemented.  Its a common tactic on HC. Change isnt cemented once it goes live and things could be changed/reverted at any time per post implemented feedback given as you have if the powers that be really wanted to(and they do not).   Its again just a tactic(among many) to be dismissive of criticisms is all.

Edited May 10 by Sanguinesun

[Excraft]

On 5/8/2024 at 5:50 PM, Eiko-chan said:

Where am I supposed to discuss this topic? Why the hell is the Council hard now? Who's fucking idea was this and why is it just allowed to happen!? 

 

Several people complained the game is too easy, support classes were "unnecessary" at higher levels, healers were superfluous etc. and cried for harder content.  Now that we're getting harder content, people are complaining.  I feel for the HC folks on this one.  They just can't win.

 

Honestly, what did people expect would happen?  It was obvious from the get go that in order to make content more "challenging/harder", HC was going to adjust enemy NPCs to totally neuter defense through auto-hit AoEs, neuter resists with un-resistable damage, negate damage and make support/buff/debuff roles more a mandatory must-have requirement than nice-to-have to round out the team.

 

I personally don't find the new and "improved" Council or CoT any more difficult.  They're more tedious, but not more difficult.  You still have options available as you don't need to run 4-star hard mode TFs and avoid the whole WoW-esque style of heavily scripted dungeons where you make a tiny mistake and you're thoroughly punished type of play.

[Eiko-chan]

19 minutes ago, Excraft said:

 

Several people complained the game is too easy, support classes were "unnecessary" at higher levels, healers were superfluous etc. and cried for harder content.  Now that we're getting harder content, people are complaining.  I feel for the HC folks on this one.  They just can't win.

Welcome to game design. And capitalism.

 

The trick is figuring out which group is your core audience, and which sector costs you more by favouring the other. It can be a tricky balance to find, but it's not asking the impossible. Literally every organisation that exists has to thread this needle.

[Infinitum]

I have a slight opinion on this.   

 

I think the Council were overtuned but not in terms of unbearable difficulty - because it's not that they are unbearably hard now but more annoying and tedious - more along the lines of when a fake nemesis goes untouchable - or a Paragon protector when they raise their hand because they are sure (hopefully someone old enough will get that reference) and then you just stand there staring at each other for what seems like an eternity with them slapping you ever so often.  And yeah yeah I know. Kill them before they do it. Right. Got it. lol

 

With the council something irritating happens every mob - sometimes multiple times every mob.  I mean it used to piss me off before when a warwolf would occassionally spawn. Now I just leave the room. lol

 

All in all I get the sentiment for the need for the change but disagree with the effect of making it frustrating rather than ooo better be on my toes here - which really wasn't accomplished by it - well not to the point of this can't be done unless x happens.  They are more difficult but with annoying party favors now. 

 

At the end of the day it's still only a slight opinion because I quit running radio missions regularly before live sunset.

 

Thats just my opinion - at the end of the day it doesn't stop me from playing or having fun - so meh. lol

[Jacke]

On-topic, I've seen discussion of the enemy group changes go by, haven't experienced them myself much, certainly not solo (the most intense) as I haven't soloed recently.  I wonder at their balance, especially as I see a lot of discussion after the fact about the GMs and whether their changes were right.

 

Now going way off-topic.  The Secret World....

 

On 5/8/2024 at 11:18 PM, Erratic1 said:

Oh my, one can dream The Secret World would get fresh blood and development.

 

Besides, in The Secret World/Secret World Legends you could always go back to New England and casually own things...something you would know if you had suitably exposed yourself over time to many microdoses of The Filth like Dr. Klein had.

 

23 hours ago, Krimson said:

The major difference is you EXPECT to be at a disadvantage in Secret World. I never expected to feel super or powerful in that game. I didn't care for Legends, but the first iteration felt like playing a Stephen King novel.

 

23 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Disadvantage...of being unkillable since the Machine would bring you back. Admittedly, Lilith comes up with a wickedly warped way of dealing with that. I hated her but I have to admit, it was brilliant.

 

Darn I miss that game.

 

I miss The Secret World too.

 

Fighting my altitis I knew well from City, I went with a single character in the Dragon.  Only vaguely remember the very start of a character.  Remember ending up in New England.  And with my experience from SWTOR of seeing "WoW in Space!", I could see the gaming system in TSW took a different path to kind of end up at a WoW like system.

 

Those initial voiced animation shorts that started a mission, amazing.  (Still several on YouTube.)  The game really felt like you were trapped in an Eldritch tormented world.

 

Which was TSW problem, I think.  It was just too good at being a horrific Eldritch world.  I never felt safe.  Sure, there were little protected areas back in the Home Cities.  Much more if you were a Templar as London had those huge areas I could barely perceive because no go if you weren't a Templar.  Other safe zones were added, but more after I stopped playing.  No matter how bad things were in City of Heroes, there were always those well known safe spots to go.  I think this is a cardinal rule when making a horrific MMO: the players need to have good places where they mostly feel safe.

 

When I found out that all the idle TSW characters were wiped when the game was recast as Secret World Legends, well, that was it.  Don't know if I could ever go back.

[SuggestorK]

On 5/9/2024 at 12:57 AM, biostem said:

The only things I dislike about the Council revamp are the self-rezzers and how it seems to sometimes produce groups that are all galaxy troops.  If you were used to ROFL-stomping Council and can't now, then maybe you need to revisit your build or tactics... 

what i dont like is that they allowed now to tp the player around, nothing i hate more then not able to fully control the movement of my char.

Edited May 10 by SuggestorK

[Ukase]

6 hours ago, Excraft said:

Several people complained the game is too easy, support classes were "unnecessary" at higher levels, healers were superfluous etc. and cried for harder content.  Now that we're getting harder content, people are complaining.  I feel for the HC folks on this one.  They just can't win.

My perception stems from back on retail when defenders and controllers were desperate to team to a degree. A fire tank didn't need their buffs to play at +4/8, so they were essentially relegated to doing whatever it is a controller or defender does when they can't find a team. Rumor has it a controller was the first AT to utter the words "PL Meh!"
Now, I know there were some SGs that hosted various theme teams of all controllers, or all defenders that made fire farmers look a bit lethargic when it came to map clearing times, but that was 8 defenders or controllers, not one tank. I read it in the chat on retail "Why should I team with you? I don't need you."

That was probably the beginning of the outcry to nerf farmers, or soloers who could handle +4/8 without external buffs. So many people (not players) who were really feeling alone and couldn't log on and team because solo tanks didn't need them. And shortly after that is when they added a very strong element of fear (the power, not the emotion) to burn. 
"This will encourage fire tanks to recruit controllers for their group immobs" was likely the thinking. 

And as you can imagine, or remember, the outcry was loud. A fair number of folks cancelled their subs and probably still haven't returned. 
And you're right. They (HC Devs) can't win. Not the way they're going about it now. 

The sad part is I don't really have a solution. At least, not a well-thought out, fair one. I think it's the inability of some characters (not the people behind them) to get on teams easily that is the driving force behind this more than some sharp coder/player who wants challenging content. But, I could certainly be wrong. Either way, I'm sure there's a way to:
1. Encourage SGs and other strong leaders to host diverse teams for diverse content
2. Allow solo players to feel super without having to fork over 7.5M every hour (amplifiers from p2w) or memorize sg empowerment buff recipes 
3. For once, let Snarky have a pleasant experience with a PUG. 

It's the first one that I believe is the real lynchpin of the solution. Teaming doesn't add a thing to me personally, except easier badging. Sure, some characters that lack dps will get some faster xp. But there's not any more fun than there is taking my ice blaster through it solo. But - some folks could be on a Statesman build and still not have any fun unless they were on a team. And, I think that's at least 70% of the players. Maybe more. So, efforts should be made to encourage teaming. But I don't know that more challenging content is the way to do it. Imagine if the LFG actually functioned as it was intended. Would that solve some problems? Sure. It might cause some problems, too. Who can say? 

I do think the best thing any of us can do is try to host/lead more content so players aren't feeling like they can't get a team. 

[Seed22]

15 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

 You mean an MMO that avoids tedious gear grinding and an actual fun combat system. It's not a training wheels MMO, it's a superior MMO!

 

CoH cured me of "real" MMOs.

Thats very true! 
 

But It’d be very remiss of me to not acknowledge how this game gave me the reflexes to play disc priest in WoW or Feral Druid, or how it taught me to play counselor in Star Wars Old Republic. 
 

Its a wonderful training wheels MMO, just like another crab’s treasure is a wonderful introduction to soulslikes

[Seed22]

15 hours ago, biostem said:

Just responding in kind to the person who was dismissive of me to begin with.

 

Yeah - that's why people never get confused by enhancement slotting, ED, IO set bonuses and the rule of 5, and let's not get started on incarnate stuff.

 

Plenty.

Guides have been streamlined to the point where all that difficulty you mentioned can be learned with an iota of research minus any nitty gritty things like actual damage numbers thanks to CoD shenanigans. 
 

It’s not intuitive, but that doesn’t make it difficult to grasp. Once you’re aware of the system, it’s fairly simple to learn. Proof is I learned it as a 10 year old back in the day. It just really REALLY needs to be made clearer to the average player I’d say. 
 

And that last bit was because it felt like you were suggesting this game has some high skill ceiling, which it really does not, to me implying you haven’t so much as touched an actually difficult game. The souls series and soulslikes come to mind, or even crash bandicoot back in the day. 
 

Disregard

 

**I want to be perfectly clear in this, I do NOT want to gatekeep in any way by saying if you dont play souls games or soulslikes you cant talk about difficulty, I just have in the past seen a litany of people come through with this haughty and dismissibe attitude of player complaints because they have some builds that solo +4x8 or speed through HM 4 or whatever and are out of touch. Its my way of trying to bring them back down to Earth and understand, such achievements don’t give you the right to dismiss others, and that there are always better players than you.

Edited May 10 by Seed22

[tidge]

The post below was not directed at me, and I promise I'll try to steer my reply towards "high level (?) enemy revamps" (from thread title, I was assuming level 45+ content, but I don't know if that is really what the thread is entirely discussing)

 

9 hours ago, Ukase said:

1. Would you say that you spend more time than other players on figuring out the strengths and weaknesses of your characters than the average player? 
2. Would you say that you're probably inclined to dig deeper into complex problems than the average player?

 

I don't know what the benchmark is for the average player, but for this (points to self) player:

 

1. For so much of the content, the "solutions" (i.e. how to complete the task) are both pretty well understood (by a LOT of people). Many of the "solutions" are common to most of the content, e.g. "button mashing" or "MOAR DAMAGE".

 

2. I am self-convinced of my ability (within CoX) to see that there are multiple different ways to approach content, such that I don't get agitated when I see someone doing something different. To use a classic bit of forum flame-bait: We never go long without someone starting a new thread about how some PUG has done something wrong on a Positron 1, Penny Yin, whatever trials. There are well-tested tactics, but there are different ways to approach those.

 

The page 7 revamps of enemy groups have (obviously, points to existence of multiple instances of this thread) made at least one player feel like their comfortable "solution" to playing content that includes the Council (*1, I want to circle back to this group specifically) is no longer "solving the problem" in a satisfactory way? We can still button mash against the Council and it is IMO still a completely valid approach. This hasn't really changed.

 

(*1) Calling out the Council specifically, along with no other suggestion than "roll them back" has biased me to think that a significant fraction of that feel is not driven by concerns about game balance. From my PoV, the only annoying elements of nuCouncil are (a) FREEM! breaking up my rhythm, (b) more enemies with better resists *sigh* (c) surprise at the Nictus-infused enemies doing Nictus tricks (as they always should have, IMO). As many have written... these are speed bumps, not brick walls.

 

The recent updates to Circle of Thorns ought to be more problematic (ehem, Tar Patch), I believe they are likely not seen as problematic because the old MOAR DAMAGE solution still works fine against the nuCoT. When Crey got its round of updates (MOAR Taunts, Confuses, debuffs) it was a surprise, it made them harder to face, and nobody is calling for them to be "rolled back!"

 

TL;DR. Perhaps I am dismissing concerns about nuCouncil because I believe I have "dug deeper" into the complex problem of nuCouncil and have found that whatever that problem is turns out to be incredibly shallow.

[KaizenSoze]

28 minutes ago, tidge said:

(*1) Calling out the Council specifically, along with no other suggestion than "roll them back" has biased me to think that a significant fraction of that feel is not driven by concerns about game balance. From my PoV, the only annoying elements of nuCouncil are (a) FREEM! breaking up my rhythm, (b) more enemies with better resists *sigh* (c) surprise at the Nictus-infused enemies doing Nictus tricks (as they always should have, IMO). As many have written... these are speed bumps, not brick walls.

 

The recent updates to Circle of Thorns ought to be more problematic (ehem, Tar Patch), I believe they are likely not seen as problematic because the old MOAR DAMAGE solution still works fine against the nuCoT. When Crey got its round of updates (MOAR Taunts, Confuses, debuffs) it was a surprise, it made them harder to face, and nobody is calling for them to be "rolled back!"

 

TL;DR. Perhaps I am dismissing concerns about nuCouncil because I believe I have "dug deeper" into the complex problem of nuCouncil and have found that whatever that problem is turns out to be incredibly shallow.

Alas, what I have learned is that players were not using their Incarnates aggressively before page 7. Due to it being so easy. Now, due to the increased difficultly they are and it's making new CoT and Council not trivial, but easier than you expect.

Note about soloing new Council and CoT. I have posted this in other threads. Tidge has already figured these things out.

 

If you want to avoid the Galaxy rezes, break line of sight. Brutes and Tanks now get a mag 3.5 sleep in the Epic Psionic pool, which is good for knocking off those annoying resist shields. Yes, they will turn them back on, but if you include the sleep in your rotation it will keep the shield off a lot. Plus, they have no resists to psi damage.

 

CoT bosses are nasty you need to move. I tend to trigger them at range to get them to drop tar patch and earthquake, then dart around a corner. All CoT are weak to end drain, they cannot nuke or keep those -tohit auras up without end.

[Eiko-chan]

19 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

To be fair, you were soloing on x8. x8 literally means "this content is for a full team of eight players."

Well, let's circle back around to this, actually. x8 means "this content was intended for a full team of eight players by Jack Emmert, a man that famously thought a superhero should occasionally lose a fight against three minions."
That design philosophy was being abandoned even before Emmert left Cryptic, and it was fully discarded by the time Paragon Studios took the helm. The numbers really shouldn't be taken literally. They were defined by someone that thought his general rules of team play applied to all content genres. 

[Eiko-chan]

46 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

those -tohit auras

-tohit auras?

 

Huh. That explains a few things. Guess the Circle finally finished levelling their Willpower Tankers.

[Excraft]

8 hours ago, Eiko-chan said:

Welcome to game design. And capitalism.

 

The trick is figuring out which group is your core audience, and which sector costs you more by favouring the other. It can be a tricky balance to find, but it's not asking the impossible. Literally every organisation that exists has to thread this needle.

 

First, this game isn't a commercial venture anymore and it's never going to be a commercial venture ever again.  It's run by a group of volunteers in their spare time, so capitalism doesn't really apply to design choices here as it would for a commercial product.

 

I understand the design concept just fine.  I agree that "revamping" ALL NPC groups to make them harder everywhere and in everything was not a smart decision.  This game has never been about the required trinity WoW style of play and it never should be.  Something I think HC did right was to add difficulty levels to various TFs.  This was a great idea and executed very well.  Those who want a greater challenge have the option to run it.  Those who want don't want to run higher difficulties don't have to.  Having options is a great thing.  Making content more difficult everywhere for everyone is not in my opinion.

 

For me personally, there are times when I want to run with a well balanced team for higher level content.  More often, I'd just like to kill the hour or two of free time I have curbstomping bad guys solo.  If this trend continues to make "regular" content more difficult, I'm going to have to start wasting time trying to recruit healers or buffers.  If I have to do that for everything, including radio mission and such set at +0/1 settings, it will be time to move on from here for me. 

 

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

I read it in the chat on retail "Why should I team with you? I don't need you."

 

This has always been the case since the game launched and continues to this day.  No class/AT is required for content to be completed.  That's a good thing in my opinion.  Having a well balanced team with a blend of tank/damage/heal/control has always made content less of a hassle and more efficient in several respects.  Just one example - I often run SBBs with a group of friends.  When we have a solid tank, the squishies aren't wiped out in the first round of the arena by Claudia and Camilla because their aggro is controlled.  The AVs in Casino Heist don't run and jump all over the warehouse with a tank taunting them.   With strong debuffs, all of the AVs melt that much faster.  Same thing with running LGTFs or ITFs or LRSFs.  If you've got a well balanced team, things go that much more smoothly.  Sure, you can do an all tank ITF, but it's going to take longer and not go as well as having some buff/debuff/high DPS on the team. 

 

Personally, I don't want to see this game become yet another WoW clone.  I think that's the direction we're headed in sadly and I agree with those who have said this isn't what the core audience is looking for. 

[tidge]

The Circle has always been debuffing, even if that one simple trick may be newly added to some enemies. I'm <shocked pikachu> that this is a surprise, given the range of content across which CoT appear and the relatively easy ways to tell that a character is being debuffed.