Ninjitsu for Tankers/Brutes

[Alchemystic]

So there's not many armor sets left that Tankers and Brutes don't have access to. There's Regeneration and Energy Aura for Tankers, but I feel there's been a lot of push to get those two out already, so I'd like to turn my attention to Ninjitsu, which neither Archetype currently has access to.

Ever since Stalkers received Shield Defense, I wanted there to be a 'trade' of sorts where the remaining melee archetypes received Ninitsu in return, but given the gimmicky nature of the set it's hard to come up with something that works around the needs of Tankers and Brutes, especially when so many powers seem to conflict with their playstyle. So, what do we do to make it viable for these archetypes? Ideally it should make use of as many existing powers as it can, but with Ninjitsu being so varied, the challenge is finding what powers fit the best overall.

 

So, here's a draft I made for what Ninjitsu for Tankers/Brutes could look like;
 

Version 1:

Ninja Reflexes	Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(DEF Debuff)
Danger Sense	Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
Bo Ryaku	Auto: Self +Res(Knockback, Knockup, All DMG)
Kuji-In Rin	Self +Res(Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immob, Confuse, Fear, Psionics), +SPD
Tai Jutsu (New)	Toggle: Self +DMG, Foe -ToHit, Taunt
Kuji-In Sha	Self Heal, +Res(Toxic)
Seishinteki Kyoyo	Self +End
Caltrops	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Lethal), Foe -SPD, Taunt
Kuji-In Retsu	Self +DEF, +Res(DEF Debuff), +Rec, +SPD, +Special

 

Version 2: (See Changelog Here)

Spoiler

Ninja Reflexes	Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(DEF Debuff)
Danger Sense	Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
Caltrops	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Lethal), Foe -SPD, Taunt
Tai Jutsu (New)	Toggle: Self +SPD, +Res(Stun, Hold, Sleep, Immob), Foe -ToHit, Taunt
Kuji-In Sha	Self Heal, +Res(Toxic)
Shinobi	Toggle: Self +DEF(All), +Stealth, +Special
Bo Ryaku	Auto: Self +Res(Knockback, Knockup, All DMG)
Kuji-In Toh	Self +Regeneration, +Recovery, +Resistance(Psionic, Fear, Confuse)
Kuji-In Retsu	Self +DEF, +Res(DEF Debuff), +Rec, +SPD, +Special

 

Version 3: (See Changelog Here)

 

Spoiler

Ninja Reflexes	Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(DEF Debuff)
Danger Sense	Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
Shinobi-Iri	Toggle: Self +DEF(All), +Stealth, +SPD, +Special
Kuji-In Rin	Self +Res(Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immob, Confuse, Fear, Psionics)
Kuji-In Sha	Self Heal, +Res(Toxic)
Tai-Jutsu (New)	Toggle: Self +Special, Foe -ToHit, Taunt
Bo Ryaku	Auto: Self +Res(Knockback, Knockup, All DMG)
Seishinteki Kyoyo	Self +End
Kuji-In Retsu	Self +DEF, +Res(DEF Debuff), +Rec, +SPD, +Special

 

Design Notes:
 

Static Powers;

Ninja Reflexes, Danger Sense, Kuji-In Rin, Kuji-In Sha, Kuji-In Retsu

 

These powers are always present in Ninjitsu regardless of archetype, so it made sense to keep them. The only exception being Blinding Powder, which I'll go into more detail later. Since these powers felt like a staple part of the powerset, I wanted to retain them as they help build the foundation to work from. This gives the set the same access to positional defense, mez protection and healing as other archetypes, without compromising on the Tanker/Brute structure.

Floating Powers:

Caltrops, Seishinteki Kyoyo, Bo Ryaku

 

These powers only appear in some versions of the Ninjitsu powerset, and are incorporated where they are needed most. First off, Caltrops, which is a Stalker exclusive power. Since it has similar function to Burn, I thought it might fit here (although accessed much later on) and serve a similar purpose. Both Seishinteki Kyoyo and Bo Ryaku appear only in the Scrapper/Sentinel version of the powerset, but provide buffs that I think would help improve the survivability on Tankers and Brutes, with their positions would change to better suit the needs of these archetypes.

 

Omitted Powers:

Shinobi-Iri, Smoke Flash, Blinding Powder

 

These powers are ones I don't think would be suitable for Tankers and Brutes, as they conflict in one way or another with the playstyle.  Shinobi-Iri is a stealth power, and while that isn't strictly uncommon for Tankers/Brutes ( Energy Cloak, Cloak of Darkness), its reliance on not engaging the enemy for a +DMG buff runs counter to how these archetypes play. Similarly, Smoke Flash causes enemies to lose aggro on you, something that definitely would be a handicap, and would likely need to be dropped. Lastly, Blinding Powder. While the power doesn't have many inherent problems, the Sleep and Confuse effect may present issue retaining aggro, and would be worth losing to make space for a power that maintains it instead.

 

New Powers:

Tai Jutsu

 

This new power exists as a means to maintain aggro much like Against All Odds , Beta Decay and Rise to the Challenge. It is a Taunt AoE first and foremost, but also incorporates the +DMG effect of  Shinobi-Iri and the -ToHit debuff from Blinding Powder. The more enemies affected, the greater the +DMG bonus will be. Visually this power would have similar VFX to Evasion, much like how other Ninjitsu powers share the appearance of Super Reflexes powers. The idea of 'Tai Jutsu' refers to the same school of techniques as some other Ninjitsu powers, and focuses on close quarters combat proficiencies, which compliments the Tanker/Brute theme, and also the mechanics of a +DMG/-ToHit aura.

 

Edited May 27 by Alchemystic

[twozerofoxtrot]

Ah yes, the unstealthy ninja.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Ah yes, the unstealthy ninja.

Agreed.  Brute & Tanker Dark Armor gets the stealth power, and Brute Energy Aura keeps its stealth power, so I don't think it has to go away.

Edited May 22 by biostem

[Alchemystic]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

Agreed.  Brute & Tanker Dark Armor gets the stealth power, and Brute Energy Aura keeps its stealth power, so I don't think it has to go away.

 

I don't think it needs to lose access to stealth, just the part of the power that encourages you to hold off attacking.

 

Shinobi-Iri
"...[While stealthed, you have a very high chance of landing a critical attack, however you can only attempt this after spending 8 seconds without attacking or being hit]..."

 

This sorta defeats the point of playing Brute, where your Fury bar is fuelled by constantly being in battle. Tankers' Gauntlet isn't affected as much, but I fear their lasting Taunt effects would cause the "not being hit" part to be difficult to maintain.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Alchemystic said:

This sorta defeats the point of playing Brute, where your Fury bar is fuelled by constantly being in battle. Tankers' Gauntlet isn't affected as much, but I fear their lasting Taunt effects would cause the "not being hit" part to be difficult to maintain.

Maybe give the power an effect like Blasters' "Reach for the Limit", where it simply has a proc to grant a temporary damage boost, or perhaps up the base defense a little bit or have it grant additional KB protection...

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

9 minutes ago, Alchemystic said:

This sorta defeats the point of playing Brute, where your Fury bar is fuelled by constantly being in battle. Tankers' Gauntlet isn't affected as much, but I fear their lasting Taunt effects would cause the "not being hit" part to be difficult to maintain.

Maybe give the power an effect like Blasters' "Reach for the Limit", where it simply has a proc to grant a temporary damage boost, or perhaps up the base defense a little bit or have it grant additional KB protection...

Or just don't worry about it and let it be a niche application bonus damage. Or if the niche application is too distasteful, then just change it to a minor +Perception.

[Alchemystic]

3 hours ago, biostem said:

Maybe give the power an effect like Blasters' "Reach for the Limit", where it simply has a proc to grant a temporary damage boost, or perhaps up the base defense a little bit or have it grant additional KB protection...

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Or just don't worry about it and let it be a niche application bonus damage. Or if the niche application is too distasteful, then just change it to a minor +Perception.

 

If people feel a Stealth power is neccessary, we could potentially implement the Blaster power "Shinobi" from Ninja Training which functions a little differently to Shinobi-Iri as it does not have that build-up period for the +DMG to come into play. I may move it further back in the powerset so it sits at the same point as other stealth powers.

We could then maybe rework Tai Jutsu so instead of a +DMG buff, instead merge it with Kuji-In Rin and essentially makes the power function like Integration and  Entropic Aura, working as a Mez Resist toggle with a Debuff/Taunt aura.

 

Additionally, I'll change Seishinteki Kyoyo to "Kuji-In Toh" from the same Blaster powerset as it breaks up the Mez Protection a little and offers similar survivability to powersets like Energy Aura, Electric Armor and Bio Armor.

 

I'm also gonna move some powers around so it more closely resembles the other versions of Ninjitsu

Here's what the powerset could look like with these alterations;

 

Ninja Reflexes	Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(DEF Debuff)
Danger Sense	Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
Caltrops	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Lethal), Foe -SPD, Taunt
Tai Jutsu (New)	Toggle: Self +SPD, +Res(Stun, Hold, Sleep, Immob), Foe -ToHit, Taunt
Kuji-In Sha	Self Heal, +Res(Toxic)
Shinobi	Toggle: Self +DEF(All), +Stealth, +Special
Bo Ryaku	Auto: Self +Res(Knockback, Knockup, All DMG)
Kuji-In Toh	Self +Regeneration, +Recovery, +Resistance(Psionic, Fear, Confuse)
Kuji-In Retsu	Self +DEF, +Res(DEF Debuff), +Rec, +SPD, +Special

 

All in all, I think Version 2 definitely looks better. Not only does it manage to squeeze a Stealth power back into the set, but it also manages to keep the Taunt aura in some form with minimal compromise. The structure also looks a lot more traditional when compared against the other archetypes, and other powersets!

 

Edited May 23 by Alchemystic

[Alchemystic]

Here's a descriptive bio for the updated Tai Jutsu power:

Tai Jutsu is one of the 18 fundamental skills of the Togakure-ryu school of ninjutsu, focusing on special techniques for assisting in close quarters engagements, such as grapple-breaking and escape maneuvers. While active, you gain resistance to Stun, Hold, Sleep and Immobilize, while also reducing the ToHit chance of surrounding foes by keeping them assailed. Your running speed and jumping height are also increased.

 

 

 

Edited May 22 by Alchemystic

[biostem]

Y'know what'd be funny - a toggle power that periodically scatters caltrops in a PBAoE around your character, (which also taunt enemies to yourself).

Edited May 22 by biostem

[Alchemystic]

7 minutes ago, biostem said:

Y'know what'd be funny - a toggle power that periodically scatters caltrops in a PBAoE around your character, (which also taunt enemies to yourself).

 

Giving me real Knives of Artemis 'oops all caltrops!' PTSD there buddy

[Ghost]

3 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Ah yes, the unstealthy ninja.

[Enamel_32]

Unless you invest in additional stealth, a single stealth power from the armor sets is usually just enough to not accidentally draw aggro from a neighboring group. It's honestly pretty nice from an aggro management perspective as long as you're aware that the rest of the team might be more noticeable to enemies sometimes.

[Purrfekshawn]

l wanted Energy Aura proliferated for Tankers for like 6 years, honestly that should have happened when Ouroboros team made i25. But it's a theme for another topic.

 

Not like l really need it, l prefer Resistance-based set over Defense-based on Tankers (on other toons Defense-based, screw the Brewtz since Homecoming Tank buffs!), but still...

 

Edited May 23 by Purrfekshawn

[KaizenSoze]

Definitely needs the stealth, but not critical hits.

 

The Sentinel version just provides a +damage buff, instead of a critical.

[Alchemystic]

29 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Definitely needs the stealth, but not critical hits.

 

The Sentinel version just provides a +damage buff, instead of a critical.

 

It does, but unfortunately still only procs when you wait for 8 seconds for it to build up.

 

The Blaster version of Shinobi instead has a passive damage buff in addition to that stealth strike bonus, which I think is our best option for Tankers/Brutes

[BrandX]

16 hours ago, Alchemystic said:

 

I don't think it needs to lose access to stealth, just the part of the power that encourages you to hold off attacking.

 

Shinobi-Iri
"...[While stealthed, you have a very high chance of landing a critical attack, however you can only attempt this after spending 8 seconds without attacking or being hit]..."

 

This sorta defeats the point of playing Brute, where your Fury bar is fuelled by constantly being in battle. Tankers' Gauntlet isn't affected as much, but I fear their lasting Taunt effects would cause the "not being hit" part to be difficult to maintain.

 

To be fair, how often are you trying to get back into stealth to crit on a Scrapper?

 

No AT that I've done ninjitsu is stopping and waiting to do a crit.  So, the Brute would be the same way.  If you happen to get back into stealth mode, you get a crit.

[Alchemystic]

Another thing to note is that the only reason Stalker has Caltrops is because Scrappers and Sentinels instead access it via their ancillary powersets (Weapon Mastery and Ninja Tool Mastery). If plans were laid out for Tankers and Brutes to receive one of these Ancillaries in addition to Ninjitsu, it may be that the power is placed there instead.

If that was the case, I can imagine more wiggle room as to what powers could be incorporated. 'Kuji-In Rin' could remain as is, and 'Tai Jutsu' could instead have different functionality (though I'd still keep the -ToHit/Taunt aura aspect as its something the set needs).

 

Just some more food for thought as to how this powerset could shape up.

[Shin Magmus]

Hey... calling the dedicated new Taunt Aura toggle "tai-jutsu" is genius.  Naruto fans everywhere are already on-board.  I'd like to be able do make a Nin Tank as well: I think the set is appreciably mechanically different from SR and Shield: the only other positional defense sets. 

[Alchemystic]

Gonna cross-post a little so it helps provide a little context. I was pondering what Weapon Mastery (And Ninja Tool Mastery) might look like on Tankers/Brutes, and maybe use the material from that thread to influence what Ninjitsu would look like when we move Caltrops over to an Ancillary and free up that space for something else;

 

Weapon Mastery Revamp

Ninja Tool Mastery Proliferation

 

Ninja Reflexes	Toggle: Self +DEF(Melee), +Res(DEF Debuff)
Danger Sense	Toggle: Self +DEF(Ranged, AoE), +Res(DEF Debuff), +Perception
Shinobi-Iri	Toggle: Self +DEF(All), +Stealth, +SPD, +Special
Kuji-In Rin	Self +Res(Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immob, Confuse, Fear, Psionics)
Kuji-In Sha	Self Heal, +Res(Toxic)
Tai-Jutsu (New)	Toggle: Self +Special, Foe -ToHit, Taunt
Bo Ryaku	Auto: Self +Res(Knockback, Knockup, All DMG)
Seishinteki Kyoyo	Self +End
Kuji-In Retsu	Self +DEF, +Res(DEF Debuff), +Rec, +SPD, +Special

So this time around we're assuming Caltrops is in an Ancillary. which has opened room for another power. I've opted to include Kuji-In Rin and Seishinteki Kyoyo again and give Tai-Jutsu different functionality. With these changes, powers can fit closely to where they are in other Archetypes, and I've opted to include the Sentinel version of Shinobi-Iri as @KaizenSoze and @BrandXsuggested.

Tai-Jutsu now has a new effect that behaves like a softer version of 'Power Boost' increasing the secondary effects of your melee attacks (such as DeBuffs, Sleeps, Stuns, etc), while retaining the -ToHit and Taunt effect on nearby enemies. The new description would read as thus;

 

"Tai Jutsu is one of the 18 fundamental skills of the Togakure-ryu school of ninjutsu, focusing on special techniques for assisting in close quarters engagements, enhancing the secondary effects of your attacks. While active, the potency of DeBuffs, Status Effects and Draining effects is increased, while also reducing the ToHit chance of surrounding foes by keeping them assailed."