Storm Summoning/

[Coyote]

7 hours ago, kelly Rocket said:

Couple Tornado questions:

 

Given that Tornado is a pet, does the Force Feedback proc benefit you or the Tornado itself (As generally proc buffs go to the pet they're slotted in, when slotted in a pet)?

 

And related, does the Soulbound Allegiance Chance for Build-Up when slotted in Tornado give the Tornado Build-Up, or you? If it goes to the Tornado, does that immediately increase the damage it's dealing?

 

Not sure about the Soulbound.

Force Feedback procs on YOU when you drop the power, using the Recharge of the power, so it should have a 90% chance to proc. It's possible that after that, it procs on the Tornado as a standard toggle proc, but we wouldn't know it because it won't have any effects on the Tornado.

Edit: To add, Force Feedback in Lightning Storm has the same effect: procs on you with a 90% chance on the drop, and afterwards it may or may not affect the cloud but since it's not affected by Recharge buffs we won't know it.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Coyote

[Sir Myshkin]

8 hours ago, kelly Rocket said:

Couple Tornado questions:

 

Given that Tornado is a pet, does the Force Feedback proc benefit you or the Tornado itself (As generally proc buffs go to the pet they're slotted in, when slotted in a pet)?

 

And related, does the Soulbound Allegiance Chance for Build-Up when slotted in Tornado give the Tornado Build-Up, or you? If it goes to the Tornado, does that immediately increase the damage it's dealing?

 

1 hour ago, Coyote said:

 

Not sure about the Soulbound.

Force Feedback procs on YOU when you drop the power, using the Recharge of the power, so it should have a 90% chance to proc. It's possible that after that, it procs on the Tornado as a standard toggle proc, but we wouldn't know it because it won't have any effects on the Tornado.

Edit: To add, Force Feedback in Lightning Storm has the same effect: procs on you with a 90% chance on the drop, and afterwards it may or may not affect the cloud but since it's not affected by Recharge buffs we won't know it.

No pets benefit from FF+Rech because they don't benefit from any form of recharge enhancement/boosting, but the proc itself does reflect its triggers in the combat log (technically), but that proc I've never seen cast a notifier after the initial casting where it impacts the player.

 

As for Soulbound, I believe a few have done testing for that that, but Tornado and Lightning Storm drop themselves in unique ways that doesn't favor that proc due to how they're coded. You'd see much more impact in a normal pet with cycled individual attacks compared to the AoE-patch-like nature one like Tornado where it's effectively just a mobile AoE damage aura and procs based on a 10/s wait period.

[kelly Rocket]

OK, last question (Well, maybe): How good is Force Feedback in Hurricane? Considering moving one slot from Gale to Hurricane for that. Though I'll probably have it in Gale while leveling, until I get Tornado.

[Coyote]

5 hours ago, kelly Rocket said:

OK, last question (Well, maybe): How good is Force Feedback in Hurricane? Considering moving one slot from Gale to Hurricane for that. Though I'll probably have it in Gale while leveling, until I get Tornado.

 

One FF proc in Hurricane, with one mob in the area, will average a 4.3% Recharge bonus. It won't help out of combat since it only procs if targets are in the area, but you generally have less need for +Recharge when out of combat. For one slot to get you 4.3%, I think that's probably worth it... but the trick is that this is for ONE mob. More mobs means higher chances to proc. If you could keep 16 mobs in Hurricane's area at all times, the max bonus would be about 38% Recharge bonus.

 

So, if you run around most of the combat and tag mobs with Hurricane, it's totally worth it. If you're going hang at range like a Controller and Immobilize mobs and Hurricane is only a "keep away from us" power, it's not going to be worth all that much. In the end, it's just one slot and probably worth it, but how much benefit you get out of it will be dependent upon how much time you have it hitting mobs.

[Olthoi986]

I believe Tornado procs Force Feedback for the player when it is cast (with a very high rate of procing due to the base recharge of Tornado). I don't know if it has any effect on the Tornado pet's abilities. Likewise, I haven't played with the Chance for build-up proc, so I can't say for certain, but I would assume it benefits the player upon casting Tornado.

[oedipus_tex]

Putting Force Feedback in Tornado basically provides a 100% (edit: I read above that it's 90%, but anyway, its super reliable) chance to trigger the proc on yourself whenever you cast Tornado. That's the only time I've seen it fire. Since you will be casting Tornado every time it is up, it's well worth it. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[Hjarki]

On 8/22/2019 at 3:18 PM, kelly Rocket said:

Couple Tornado questions:

 

Given that Tornado is a pet, does the Force Feedback proc benefit you or the Tornado itself (As generally proc buffs go to the pet they're slotted in, when slotted in a pet)?

 

And related, does the Soulbound Allegiance Chance for Build-Up when slotted in Tornado give the Tornado Build-Up, or you? If it goes to the Tornado, does that immediately increase the damage it's dealing?

As noted elsewhere, Force Feedback benefits the user.

 

Soulbound Allegiance appears to benefit you on activation but the pet on damage. The former is a near-certain proc while the latter is a relatively low proc chance (Tornado is a small radius AE that checks every 10 sec).

[natewest1987]

@Hjarki   any idea if decimations + build up follows the same pattern while slotted in Lightning Storm?   It 100% works on activation on user, but not sure what happens after that. 

[Hjarki]

14 hours ago, natewest1987 said:

@Hjarki   any idea if decimations + build up follows the same pattern while slotted in Lightning Storm?   It 100% works on activation on user, but not sure what happens after that. 

I haven't tested it, but I'm almost certain the build up only affects the user for two reasons:

1. Decimation is not intended to affect pets, unlike Soulbound Allegiance.
2. Lightning Storm is not a pet, but a pseudo-pet.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

On 7/2/2019 at 4:17 AM, Obitus said:

 

I'm glad you mentioned this, as it's the main thing I've wrestled with.  The builds I've mocked up don't see a huge difference in damage output, but the Defender definitely has a little more room for sundries, and we do have a lot of attractive sundries these days - the absorb proc, the max HP proc, the scaling RES, the +5% RES global, not to mention the old standbys like Kismet, Miracle, Numina, Performance Shifter,  Panacea.  Those last four are borderline mandatory on a Storm build, given our endurance burden.

 

 

 

This is also a very good point, especially with regard to Defenders.  I doubt a soft-capped Corruptor can well afford to slot procs in his attacks, as a rule, with the notable exception of the Corruptor ATO set's damage proc.  A Defender might be able to do it.

 

Still, Fire is generally considered a top set because it combines high single-target damage with very high AoE.  Ice lags a bit in the latter, though it does have a really nice nuke.  (I prefer Blizzard, anyway, because it's ranged, and it has a good bit of Scourge synergy too.)

 

I appreciate the discussion.  Lots of food for thought.

 

I'll go ahead and post two Storm builds I've been wrestling with, just for reference, one on each AT.  Both have soft-capped Ranged DEF; both have roughly the same amount of global recharge (~80+%); both have perma Hover in the 40 mph range, nearly identical levels of recovery, and the same amount of +damage (not counting Vigilance).  Both have the all-important Sudden Acceleration KB-to-KD procs in Hurricane/LS/Tornado.  (These items loosely match my build priorities.)

 

I would have preferred to slot more procs, but you can see I didn't have much room.  The main differences are that the Defender has more DEF to other types/positions, a stronger and more useable +RES shield (better End reduction) and a couple more slots to play with, but the Defender also loses Afterburner because I couldn't skip Ice Bolt.  Likewise, the Corruptor had to make at least one weird slotting decision to keep Frost Breath slotted as I like (with plenty of range enhancement); the full Malice ATO set went in Ice Storm, though obviously I'd prefer to put it in something like Bitter Ice Blast. 

 

Based on these two particular builds, and your arguments, I'm actually leaning towards the Defender now, though it's hard to say for sure which is better:

 

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Level 50 Magic Corruptor

Primary Power Set: Ice Blast

Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning

 

 

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Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

Level 50 Magic Defender

Primary Power Set: Storm Summoning

Secondary Power Set: Ice Blast

 

 

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So which is better? 😛

Did we ever get to the bottom of this, specifically for Storm/Ice vs Ice/Storm

Def vs Corr - which wins in this specific matchup?

[Doomrider]

Just found this thread, currently playing a Water/Storm Corr and enjoying it quite a bit.

I know this thread is about Defenders, however something I haven't seen discussed here or anywhere else is slotting Scourging Blast chance for PBAOE +end in Tornado. I've put a 3 piece scourging blast (including proc), FFB, Overwhelming force and Soulbound into mine and it's turned Tornado into quite the little mini-buff/soft CC power on top of having a strong dot as FFB, and Soulbound have been firing on CD granting me the Build-up long enough to fire off my aoes and/or Geyser (which i sometimes stack with Aim+Gaussians after casting Tornado) but most importantly... the Scourging blast proc has also been firing on CD which has been great for sustain.

This one little proc is drastically reducing the my end usage allowing me to fire Tornado off on cooldown. Now this coupled with Theft of Essence proc in dehydrate has effectively allowed me to sustain without pause at level 37 with my current build on storm summoning character. You could also do this on Dark/Storm corr as well but that one Scourging blast proc just makes life so much easier as a Stormie Corruptor, but something sadly you can't leverage on the other ATs.

edit 01.12.22:  Soulbound no longer works in Tornado. It grants no build-up to the caster anymore, rest of the slotting listed above is sound. I would consider replacing Soulbound with Achilles -res. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Doomrider
Change to Soulbound proc.