enhancement help

[Donin]

hi there, i played coh before it was shut down back in the day. back then i never made 50, so i never got to the endgame enhancements, but i was well aware of the DO/SO usage.

 

playing here though, the IO system, is generally speaking understandable, find or buy the items you need to make them.  getting deeper than that is where my issues come in. 

 

lets start with: is there a good guide to explaining IOs for dummies? 

 

also, as a new player, other than some extremely nice person handing me 141m inf, im obviously not swimming in it. but my questions are going to stand so i can learn for if/when i get to the point i can make more of them.

 

its also not relevant, as im not looking for a build, but im playing a rad/rad defender.

 

thank you for your response(s)

[NotsoevilDM]

Not a guide, but I would recommend getting MId's Reborn - it has its own sub-forum. That way you can play around with slotting and IO sets to see what works for you. 

 

There are sub-forums for each archetype with end-game builds (usually in MId's format), if you are looking to optimise a specific toon.

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Donin said:

playing here though, the IO system, is generally speaking understandable, find or buy the items you need to make them.  getting deeper than that is where my issues come in.

 

 

Soooooo....

 

Things build on things. 🙂

 

The absolute basics of IOs are taught in an invention tutorial - which used to be handed to you, along with other contacts. Blueside, it's in the university in Steel Canyon. I ... honestly don't remember the contact right offhand.

 

Very first use of IOs would just be basics, not sets - at least how they were introduced. Unlike the DOs and SOs you're used to, they don't expire, which is just generically nice. 15s (which you can slot at 12) are typically cheap and nice 'til the mid-ish 20s, people may wait 'til 27-32 so they can slot 30-35s (roughly SO strength.)

 

For some powers, that's all you want/need. They do, obviously, get stronger as you get higher levels (unlike SOs, which always give the same percentage... which is why you kept having to buy them, thanks to them getting weaker and expiring.)

 

Getting stuff:
 

It drops. *shrugs* Salvage tab, "invention." Standard (non set) IOs generally just use basic, white salvage and some INF. You can also buy it on the market. Recipes also drop, and you'll see which salvage (and how much INF per IO) you need.

 

 

Et voila. To make a level 20 Accuracy IO, you need one Luck Charm, one Boresight, and 32k INF. You craft these at crafting tables (in Universities/abandoned labs, the RWZ, and bases, for starters.) You will then have one level 20 Accuracy that improves Acc by 25.6%.

 

TIP - especially if you like badges. Or saving INF.

 

So, you need components, INF and a recipe to craft badges. HOWEVER, if you look here, you'll see... you get badges for "memorizing" recipes. Which you may want to do if you're going to craft a bunch of them (I tended at one point to have a character crafting commons for other leveling characters in SGs to use, for instance.) Even if you don't like doing this, it has a side benefit.

 

One, you don't need a recipe for a memorized recipe.

Two, the crafting cost is cheaper.

 

For level 15 and 20 (the two levels are combined, it's level 10, then 15/20, 25/30, 35/40 and 45/50,) you'll have to craft six of level 15, six of level 20, and then one extra of either. You'll then get a badge (for 15/20 ACC, it's the Lt. Colonel badge) and then, if you go to a crafting table, you'll have a new item that says "memorized" ... and the ability to just use the correct salvage and a bit less inf to just craft level 15 and 20 Acc IOs on the fly.

 

If you do enough of these (all but the highest levels of each...) you'll get a portable crafting workbench. However, it's generally cheaper to just buy it at START.

 

Tip 2 - Doing what to them?

 

So, you'll hear people talking about doing two things to IOs.

1. Catalyzing. This means (at 50, or just buying from the market) using an enhancement catalyst and an IO in the enhancement screen - just like you were combining SOs - to make the IO either "levelless" (it'll scale up and down with you through its level range) or, in the case of Winter and AT enhancements (which haven't been mentioned yet,) "Superior." (Which increases the potency of set bonuses.)

 

You can't catalyze basic IOs. There's no levelless basic IO. Won't let you do it. Got to be an INF sink somewhere, after all.

 

2. Boosting - This is something you *can* do to basic IOs, and if you're sticking to high level content, it's probably worth it. These take an enhancement booster (cleverly named, hm?) and an IO and combine them, up to 5x. So your level 30 Acc, for instance, will turn into a level 30 +5, giving you the same boost as a level 35 IO of the same sort. The big plus for this - again, if you're doing high level content - is *slot savings.* Once you hit 35+, the basic IO values exceed even-level SOs, from a little to a lot. (Level 50 recharge, for instance, gives a 42.4% boost - where a level 50 SO still gives 33.3%, and 53 - highest you can go with them - is only 38%.)  Whiich means... two boosted IOs gets you bumping against the practical ED cap.

 

 

 

All right, so get comfortable with basic IOs. They're pretty straightforward, and even when you start playing with sets... you'll probably find use for them (for instance, Recharge in powers like Hasten.)  Once you're comfortable there - it's *really* just a step up from SOs to use basics, after all - that's when you start looking at sets.

 

Sets:

 

At its most basic, an IO set is a set (duh) of 3-6 IOs that provide some sort of global bonus for slotting multiple pieces of the same set in the same power. For instance, making one up:

 

"Basic attack set" (BAS) : 3 piece which has one BAS (Accuracy,) BAS (Damage,) BAS (EndReduction.)

When you look at the description, you'll see something like:

 

2: 2% Melee def

3: 5% End Reduction

 

So if you slot one BAS (Accuracy,) you'll just get... accuracy of whatever level it is, just like a normal ACC IO of the same level.  Slot a BAS Accuraccy and BAS Damage, and you'll get a bonus 2% melee defense. Slot the full set and you'll also get a global 5% END reduction.

 

Most set pieces - but not all - enhance more than one thing, for instance, instead of just ACC, it'll be ACC/DMG, enhancing both Accuracy and Damage, but (generally) at a bit over half for each aspect of what a single-aspect IO would be. (For instance, just making up numbers, if a level 30 ACC IO enhanced Acc by 30%, and a level 30 DMG IO enhanced DMG by 30%, an ACC/DMG IO would *not* be 15%Acc/15% DMG but more likely something like 17.5% of each. (Don't take the numbers as gospel there, I'm just creating some for an example.) So even if you don't like all of one set, often "frankenslotting" (taking pieces from multiple sets to slot in one power) can give you some slot savings.

 

 

Set Shenanigans, or "ok, here's where they complexity starts."

 

Things to remember about sets:

- You can only have one of each type of IO from a set in a power.

Taking that "Basic IO set" (BAS) I created above,  you could NOT slot BAS (Acc) in a power twice. (It'll actually grey out the power and not let you.) You CAN slot it in more than one power, though. If you took Kick and Jab, you could put a BAS (Acc) in each of them...

 

- Unless it's Unique.

You will run across some IOs that, in the description, say UNIQUE. This does not mean you have to be vewy vewy quiet when creeping up on them. It means, of course, you can *only slot one* of that... anywhere in your build. (Multi-build note! If you play with multiple builds on one character, "Unique" IOs don't care what's on another build.)

 

- Side note, ATOs, Winter sets and Purples are all Unique.

ATOs (Scrapper's Strike, Overpowering Presence, etc.) are *all* considered Unique. Even when you catalyze them (from earlier,) which makes them superior versions of the same set, they're all considered unique to each other. So Overpowering Presence Acc/Dam and Superior Overpowering Presence Acc/Dam are considered the same IO, even if the set bonuses are kind of considered different sets.  (Just wait 'til you play with them... it can be handy.)

 

-Buying tip. If you're *buying* set IOs instead of crafting them? *Buy the attuned* (generally.) Set IOs and attuned set IOs share the same pool in the auction house.  If there are 330 Nosehair of the Nictus Acc/Dam, you'll see there are also 330 attuned Nosehair of the Nictus Acc/Dam. Buy the attuned. (Back to the ATO/Winter/purples - the superior versions do NOT share a pool with the regular ones. Different enhancement values. Worry about it later.)

 

Last, the big thing with builds which gets asked in help is:

REMEMBER the Rule of 5.

 

What this is is a way to control set bonuses. (personal note, I'd have made it 3, but that's long since past.) What this means is you can only have 5 of the *same* percentage of the *same* set bonus active - if you put in a 6th, it won't affect the rest of the set's bonuses, but you won't get it. It doesn't care what the *source* of the bonus is - it can come from 5 of the same set, or 5 of the same value of the same thing from different sets - it only cares there are 5.

 

For instance. Entropic Chaos is a Ranged set. It's possible you slotted 5 range powers with its Acc/Dam and Dam/Recharge. You would then get the two piece bonus - 10% Regen improvement - five times. If you slotted a sixth Acc/Dam and Dam/Rech from Entropic Chaos in another power, you'd still get the IO's boost to accuracy, damage and recharge, but you would *not* get another 10% to regen. 

 

Instance 2. You have five totally different sets - say, two ranged damage, a melee damage, a travel power set and a healing set. They all have, somewhere in their set bonuses, 2% ranged defense. You have five (the limit) 2% Ranged defense bonuses. Any other 2% Ranged defense bonuses, from *anywhere,* won't count.

 

HOWEVER, a 2.5% Ranged bonus? it doesn't care. It's a different value.

A 2% Melee bonus? Also doesn't count. It's 2%, but it's 2% going towards something else.

(Note. This is why Luck of the Gambler (LOTG) Global Recharge is used frequently. This piece is not unique... and it is *its own bonus category.* It's not just a 7.5% recharge, it's a 7.5% Increased Global Recharge Speed bonus... which does NOT interfere with any other 7.5% recharge bonus. Just itself.)

 

 

OK. After that?

That's where you get into builds, and using MIDS, and where I'll let someone else yap about it, because I don't do builds. Really. I slot what looks either useful, interesting or amusing (let me tell you about the group of Elec blasters I ran with that all put in Chance to Stun IOs from an end drain set...)

 

"Basic" builds can do fine. "Basic IO" builds can do fine - as in "Eh, just fit 5 Thunderstrike sets in 5 ranged powers" and such while you see what they do. Or you can start poking around with numbers and mids and such, worrying about caps and things - as mentioned, I'll let someone else get into that.

 

Go experiment.

 

 

[Maelwys]

4 hours ago, Donin said:

lets start with: is there a good guide to explaining IOs for dummies? 

There are a few.

This video gives a visual overview of the entire thing and this guide on the Homecoming forums is a decent text-based summary.
The Wiki entry has the nuts and bolts.

Once you've read over those, honestly I'd probably recommend starting to play around in Mids Reborn - there are plenty of example builds dotted around the various archetype subforums here as well as on discord.

In my experience the learning curve goes something like: Using SOs --> Using Common IOs (at level ~25 and upwards they become direct replacements for SOs that you never outlevel) --> Using "Frankenslotted" Set IOs (a single IO can cover multiple aspects much like HOs; and slotting two "Acc/Dam" set IOs gives more benefit than one "Acc" plus one "Dam" IO at the same level) --> Using "Global" IOs (some IOs provide very useful standalone bonuses like recovery, defence or recharge) --> Using Set IOs for their set bonuses (pick a straightforward goal to start with here such as "softcapped melee defence" or "Perma Hasten" etc and build towards it) --> Using Damage Procs (understanding PPM mechanics and tweaking your build to have the optimal activation chances is a stretch goal here) --> Optimising further (Factoring in Exemplaring and Incarnate Slot Boosts and Hami/DSync enhancements, etc.)
 

[Donin]

thanks for the things to look at.  ill go do some info digging on those.  much appreciated folks.

[tidge]

A good point worth repeating was made:

 

2 hours ago, Maelwys said:

 Using "Frankenslotted" Set IOs (a single IO can cover multiple aspects much like HOs; and slotting two "Acc/Dam" set IOs gives more benefit than one "Acc" plus one "Dam" IO at the same level)

 

Setting aside the applicable (but not for new characters) comment about "HO", I want to repeat the point about the Enhancement sets with pieces that increase multiple, individual aspects of a power when slotted. Using pieces like these (from different sets, or from the same set) is a good way to "enhance more" of a power using fewer slots.... plus of course the possibility of getting enhancement set bonuses.

 

There is an inherent "diminishing returns" effect, known colloquially as "ED (Enhancement Diversification)... which would be worth learning about before planning on doing something like slotting more than two of the same level 50 IOs. Elsewhere on the forum there was a recent post by a player who appeared to believe that 5-slots of IOs in an attack (1x Accuracy, 3xDamage, 1xEndurance) was the "best" way to slot that power... which I disagree with. Yet I suspect the player was relatively new and didn't have a holistic view of build strategy.

 

An easy thing to do in-game is to "hover" a potential enhancement over the power to see what the effect of slotting will be for a given enhancement. It won't factor in things like global bonuses, but it is a quick-and-dirty way to see the first-order effects of adding/replacing an enhancement.

[Ravenplume]

There is an issue no one ever seems to touch on with the "never expires" thing.

 

Never upgrading your low level IOs leaves your enhancement values STUCK at that level.

 

Those Level 10 Accuracy and Damage IOs slotted in your fireball enhances those values a whopping 11.7% each, which will remain those values if you never upgrade (19.2% for a 15, up to 42.4% for a level 50).  Heck, this is why when I am putting PVP sets into a build (I don't PVP but I like the PvE bonuses and they can be slotted as young as Level 7), I will actually buy them attuned, since again, those enhancement values will be stuck at the enhancer's level.

 

And on that note, with equivalent level SOs being 33.3% enhancement values and 38.3% if they are kept up to date at +3 (just talking ACC and DMG as examples), and inf really being pretty easy to generate with little effort, and SOs easy to upgrade with that big UPGRADE button in the enhancement screen (I only noticed that in recent months myself), generic IOs are largely pointless until at least perhaps 35 or 40, but it you are keeping your SOs at +3, then no need for generics until 50, in powers that can only take generics.

[Maelwys]

13 minutes ago, Ravenplume said:

There is an issue no one ever seems to touch on with the "never expires" thing.

Never upgrading your low level IOs leaves your enhancement values STUCK at that level.

To be fair; it was touched on rather a lot in the "How do you folks build?" thread just last week.

Personally I think it's still worthwhile when levelling to use level 25-30 Common IOs as placeholders until I can replace those with whatever enhancement will end up in that slot for the final build. That typically saves a bit of cash compared to using SOs every few levels and keeps the boosts constant (frankenslotting cheap Set IOs can certainly save even more if you buy the recipe and craft it yourself - but if you've inf to burn or exemplar a lot, then by all means buy precrafted attuned...)

Inf generation is pretty easy these days even if you don't participate in market PVP; but there are plenty of folk out there sitting on 100mil or less. 
(which can honestly change your outlook on building - I must have spent 300m yesterday just restocking my base's salvage storage with boosters after my most recent toon dinged 50...)

[Snarky]

Learning the different enhancement “sets”, their set bonuses, and strategies is complex.  
 

I have no info on your playstyle or favored AT. If a Tank or a Brute there are certain enhancement sets, depending on power sets, that are better. Likewise, if going for a Ranged Defense Blaster there are a few specific enhancement sets you will land on repeatedly. The key is a comprehensive build that 1) actually enhances powers you need enhanced 2) has set bonuses that build to a few build goal targets

[High_Beam]

Invention tutorial doesn't "pop" anymore but is available at level 10.  Go to University in Steel Canyon (South) and talk to Admissions Officer Lenk (to the left when you enter) and then do the simple missions ans tutorial.  It's quick.  I think Villains is Dean Yu (or something like that).  You get a badge too.

[Ravenplume]

I would love to see the invention tutorial expanded to be playable at any of the universities, with a different group of bad guys raiding the supplies based on the zone (perhaps witches for Croatoa, Rikti or Crey or Thornies for Founders (though we already get Thornies in the supply room in the Wizard's Weakness mission, so something other than them).

 

There is also a contact in Imperial City for the tutorial as well, at the IPECAC place...

[tidge]

1 hour ago, High_Beam said:

Invention tutorial doesn't "pop" anymore but is available at level 10.  Go to University in Steel Canyon (South) and talk to Admissions Officer Lenk (to the left when you enter) and then do the simple missions ans tutorial.  It's quick.  I think Villains is Dean Yu (or something like that).  You get a badge too.

 

Red/Blue Characters should get the "admissions" contact when they reach a certain level. At least my recent characters have gotten him.

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, Ravenplume said:

There is an issue no one ever seems to touch on with the "never expires" thing.

 

Never upgrading your low level IOs leaves your enhancement values STUCK at that level.

 

Those Level 10 Accuracy and Damage IOs slotted in your fireball enhances those values a whopping 11.7% each, which will remain those values if you never upgrade (19.2% for a 15, up to 42.4% for a level 50).  Heck, this is why when I am putting PVP sets into a build (I don't PVP but I like the PvE bonuses and they can be slotted as young as Level 7), I will actually buy them attuned, since again, those enhancement values will be stuck at the enhancer's level.

 

*However* - they don't expire 🙂

 

Given other threads about "I can't make enough INF to enhance my character," that's still a fairly important point. You don't *have* to keep spending INF to update them every few levels. An enhancement in a power that's only doing 11.7% ACC is still doing more than one that's getting no bonus because you can't afford to update it. Plus they're cheap enough that if you don't want to remove them and stick them in storage for another new alt, it's not a big deal to just overwrite/replace them when you *can* use 25/30/35s.

 

At level 12, I spend from 4.5-7k, depending on IO, to craft and slot a level 15 (DO-strength, roughly) IO. I've then spent... 7k at most per IO. How much do you spend re-upping that every few levels on an SO? The IO is more expensive, slightly, than a DO you might get, but much cheaper than the SO. Then, either I can ignore it (which I do for some powers on occasion that just don't need much,) or at - say, 30 - it's roughly 40k to craft. And *that* sticks for the rest of the game if I choose not to enhance past SO values farther.

 

And, of course, that's ignoring the up-and-down of those SO values, from +3 to -3 if you do your updates once they expire, versus the steady "My power is always going to be enhanced this much" of the common IO.

[Aeroprism]

Holy crap that topic is gold.  Expecially @Greycat's epic wall of text.  I mean, I market a good share, I'm getting quite good at making builds and I play with the Invention system a lot but I still learned a thing or ten from those posts.  

 

Very, very nice.

 

Also, Welcome Home, @Donin.  

[biostem]

18 hours ago, Donin said:

as a new player, other than some extremely nice person handing me 141m inf, im obviously not swimming in it

My general approach is to use the much more affordable, (and never expiring), level 25 "generic" IOs, and once you get to 50, the inf will roll in fairly quickly - you can then work on either buying what you want with reward merits or via the auction house, then replacing those generic IOs as you go, focusing on any set bonuses or other performance areas that you feel could be improved, (for instance, if you are having endurance issues, prioritize getting the panacea, miracle, and Numina's unique healing IOs).  You can even use the 2 additional builds you get for free at 50 to slot those set IOs, and keep your main one with the generic ones as a sort of "workhorse" build...

[Donin]

thanks @Greycat for the post.  sorry you had to write it all out.  i was hoping there was an existing thread, but great info.  ill probly just hold out til 35 to start using the generic IOs and dig the system deeper then.   slotting and mids isnt something im concerned with greatly, ive seen plenty of those things, it was the guts and bones of it that i couldnt find a good explanation for, and you provided it!

[Ukase]

On 6/19/2024 at 12:09 PM, Ravenplume said:

And on that note, with equivalent level SOs being 33.3% enhancement values and 38.3% if they are kept up to date at +3 (just talking ACC and DMG as examples), and inf really being pretty easy to generate with little effort, and SOs easy to upgrade with that big UPGRADE button in the enhancement screen (I only noticed that in recent months myself), generic IOs are largely pointless until at least perhaps 35 or 40, but it you are keeping your SOs at +3, then no need for generics until 50, in powers that can only take generics.

While I agree with everything you say here - it's worth pointing out that influence accumulation isn't that easy until you know how. 
That upgrade button when you're in the late teens can cost you quite a bit. And when you're in the 30's, darn near 1/2 a million. When you compare that to how little a level 30 organically earns without the xp buff, it's a LOT for a new player. Too much for a new player, I'd say. 

Because I market, it would be easy to suggest Yomo's guide for generating influence. Read that guide here.

But I think our OP might need something a little different at this stage in their journey. This may be more beneficial in the very short term. 

[tidge]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

That upgrade button when you're in the late teens can cost you quite a bit. And when you're in the 30's, darn near 1/2 a million. When you compare that to how little a level 30 organically earns without the xp buff, it's a LOT for a new player. Too much for a new player, I'd say.

 

The Upgrade button is not something I'd ever see myself using...setting aside that I'm constantly reusing/resupplying Enhancements from sets... I'm willing to bet that some low bids on common IOs (especially 25/30/45/50) would end up being cheaper than trying to keep SOs updated.

[KMadeleine]

29 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

The Upgrade button is not something I'd ever see myself using...setting aside that I'm constantly reusing/resupplying Enhancements from sets... I'm willing to bet that some low bids on common IOs (especially 25/30/45/50) would end up being cheaper than trying to keep SOs updated.

Yes, I have been very very grateful that folks trying to earn crafting and/or selling badges put IOs up very cheap on the AH!  When I first came back I had next to no inf, but could still afford the basics.

Edited June 22 by KMadeleine

[Sanguinesun]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

 

The Upgrade button is not something I'd ever see myself using...setting aside that I'm constantly reusing/resupplying Enhancements from sets... I'm willing to bet that some low bids on common IOs (especially 25/30/45/50) would end up being cheaper than trying to keep SOs updated.

 

Indeed.

 

Typically, for most of the time for months now, it is cheaper to buy standard IO enhancements from the AH...... within certain level ranges..... than crafting them.   Since IOI's % values never change, some opt to just simply use level 30 io's (or some 25 but the % value is lower than an SO really).  The costs to constantly upgrade SO's over the course of leveling to 50 then is -much- more expensive for a player and it an unfortunately common way some folks lose considerable money.  

 

Then, at 50 if someone decides to play that toon beyond 50 and fully give the toon Set IO's etc, they can simply switch them out on a respec and then mail the 25's or 30's to their global account, thus recycling their use for another toon, saving even more money in the long run.

 

However, if someone is deadset on only using SO's there's also another way to get them for relatively free by running AE missions for Architect rewards(tickets).  SO's I believe are 75 tickets each which is pretty small when you can earn up lots a tickets in 1 run(capped at 1500 btw).  This too can save money then.

 

So for new players, I never recommend buying SOs  or upgrading them as they're losing money in the long run.