AH "attuning"

[LKN-351]

I can't get this to work.

 

I tried to do this on one IO a month ago and that item is still there, I paid 3 mil for the attuned version and I placed the regular version up for sale for that price. Since then I've seen the last 5 go over and under as well as the price I listed at a few different times. It's still sitting there for sale though. I've pulled the listing at least two or three times and reposted it at 2.5 mil for a few days and then back to 3 mil again and for 2 mil for a while. It still just sits there.

 

Last week I decided I wanted to "attune" a few more sets like this but instead of a pricey IO I did it with lower priced ones, just to see what happened. Everything that was listed at less than 1 mil went really quickly so I thought I might go ahead and list the rest. Unfortunately now all thats left are the IOs that where selling for over 2 mil. So far the last 5 are relatively close if not the same as what I listed them at but they're all just sitting there almost a week later.

I tried to sell converters a while back ago and I had this same issue, they never sold but the last 5 was the same price I listed them at. I gave up on that, but I dont really want to give up on attuning my IOs... I exempt WAY more than I play at level so my built characters are practically useless.

 

 

Should I take them down and sell them for lower prices and just take the loss as a learning experience?

Wehn I hear others talking about AH Attuning it doesnt seem like they're losing money but I feel like if you don't wait weeks/months thats what's gunna happen. What am I missing? Am I doing something wrong?

[Andreah]

The skills needed to do AH-Attuning are the same ones needed to buy at good prices and list to sell promptly at the prevailing prices. 

 

If  you're completing the buys but your sell isn't going through, you're still listing too high. 

 

If, when you bought the attuned version, you carefully bid-crept up to find the lowest priced one that was for sale, then you should have gained the market-intel needed to pick a good price to list to sell your leveled version.

 

Basically, if you find that most sellers are listing, purely for example, at just over 2 million, you need to list for sale there too, or even slightly lower, even if you see the last five at 3 million or more. Lower priced listings will always sell first.

Edited July 6 by Andreah

[LKN-351]

so pretty much I'm gunna have to list everything I've already got at the AH at a lower price than I have it?

and in the future start at a reasonable price and take it up in increments till it sells then use that price to bid on the attuned version?

I sold some of the lower priced ones by placing them on the AH at 5 inf, but thats not really the same thing as what you're talking about I'd bet.

 

Even that one thats been there for over a month and the price has gone over and under what I originally listed it for?

[LKN-351]

This is the one thats been there for over a month.... and this isnt the first time this has happaned.

 

[Frozen Burn]

9 minutes ago, LKN-351 said:

so pretty much I'm gunna have to list everything I've already got at the AH at a lower price than I have it?

and in the future start at a reasonable price and take it up in increments till it sells then use that price to bid on the attuned version?

I sold some of the lower priced ones by placing them on the AH at 5 inf, but thats not really the same thing as what you're talking about I'd bet.

 

Even that one thats been there for over a month and the price has gone over and under what I originally listed it for?

 

Unfortunately, that's how the market goes... Highest bid goes to the lowest posted item (and then time of post only factors in for identical posts or identical bids, in which case the earliest gets it). 

 

Just because you bought something for 3M. and then go to sell it for 3M, doesn't mean you'll get 3M back.  If you post for 3M and it's not selling... that means everyone is posting for less than you.  If you pull down your post and relist it a 2.5M and it's still not selling, then again, people are still posting for lower than you.  If you're seeing sales go for more than your posting price - that means people are over paying for the items other people are posting lower than yours. 

 

But posting too low is also a gamble.... the whole market is.  You can post for 2M, and may only get 2M.... or you may get lucky and someone over pay and give you your 3M.  

 

But you should also be aware, when relisting items you lose money.  So, you want to avoid doing that, especially multiple times. 

 

When you list something you pay a 5% listing fee... if you cancel that to relist the item, you lose that fee.  You get that 5% back if the item sells, but you then pay a 10% transaction fee.  So, if you post for 3M, you pay 150k in fees.  You lose that when pulling the post.  Relisting at 2.5M, you pay an additional 125k.  You cancel that and lose it.  And relisted again at 3M for another 150k fee.... you're now out 425k just in posting fees.  

 

Initially to get your 3M back that you spent when you bought it, you'd have to post for 3M and someone would have to graciously buy it for 3.3M (because you lose 10% in transaction fees).  But someone may pay the 3M, it sell, and you'll only get 2.7M due to the transaction fee.  But you're already out 425k in posting fees.  So, you really only get 2.275M, which is a loss overall.  To get your initial 3M + your 425k in fees you've lost, you'd have to sell the item for ~3.8M (less the 10% transaction fee).  But they aren't selling for that much.  

 

Best to always anticipate a loss when reposting something - again, you rarely, if ever, get back what you initially paid for it.

[LKN-351]

I know about the two fees to the AH. I always hate relisting things especially when it's higher prices but unfortunately I'm gunna have to do a lot of that with this situation.

[Greycat]

10 hours ago, LKN-351 said:

 

and in the future start at a reasonable price

 

 

.... I just find this wording funny. 🙂 Just amuses me this morning.

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 hours ago, LKN-351 said:

This is the one thats been there for over a month.... and this isnt the first time this has happaned.

 

 

I hear your frustration.  Specifically with this piece, my observation is that the lowest outstanding offer on this is generally under 3mm.  I just did some bid creeping and bought one at 1mm and then ran into a block offered between 2.7mm and 2.8mm.  This is a pretty easy item to make in bulk, so you should expect to make a quick sale you'd be best advised to post it below that block.  I see you have listed it at lower prices in the past, and maybe you weren't patient enough, or maybe something else is going on.

 

Double check that the character you are on doesn't have both outstanding bids and offers on the same item.  It's easy to forget about and it can make you question your sanity if something doesn't trade when you think it should because you've locked or inverted the market.

 

Also, maybe this will help.  I've been considering re-writing it to clean it up:

 

 

[LKN-351]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Double check that the character you are on doesn't have both outstanding bids and offers on the same item.  It's easy to forget about and it can make you question your sanity if something doesn't trade when you think it should because you've locked or inverted the market.

 

Most of the time that's been for sale I haven't had anything else being bid on. When I moved forward on trying to AH attune things I did sell a few of these but I didn't even think about changing the price on this one specifically cause I had hoped that I wouldn't lose as much as I'm going to now.

 

I relisted that Gaussian at 2.6 mil and it sold instantly.

[Without_Pause]

I also don't list things for a 'flat' amount like 3mil. I'll go a certain amount under it, likely less than a hundred, and that seems to work well enough. I just know once I came back to the game, the market has been rather terrible.

[tidge]

Specific to the Gaussian's set: The prices on this set fluctuate quite a bit in my experience. 3 MInf seems high to me, but buy-it-now is a thing. Specific to me: I used to keep extras of this set for alts to eventually use, but then I noticed that the prices were under 2 MInf. In practice, I am either using 1 piece (the %BuildUp) or 6 pieces (for full set bonuses) with no. middle ground.

 

More generally, about attuning via the AH: Catalysts drop freely, and are often less than 1 MInf on the AH. This means that I pretty much only attune via the AH if the character doesn't have access to a Catalyst or the market price is above 2 MInf. There is a range between 1MInf and 2MInf where I suppose it can make financial sense to use the AH to attune, but this is firmly in the "why bother?" zone for me.

[Jacke]

On 7/5/2024 at 11:51 PM, LKN-351 said:

I can't get this to work.

 

I currently grind out Inf these days mostly by crafting some IOs and selling them in the AH.  I've got way less experience than the Market Giants like @Yomo Kimyata, but I do know a thing or two.

 

It would help if there was a good simple, detailed, and exacting definition of AH Binning.  With Binning of related enhancements in the Market, if there's a Buy Order for one of them, the Market will look at all of items in its Bin and if necessary, convert one other item in the Bin to that needed to fulfill the Buy Order.  The Last 5 Sale Price Record is even for the Bin.

 

That Last 5 Sale Price is very little information to go on.  If you're trying to make Inf on the AH, it helps to focus on a few items, so you have a feel beyond that.  I mostly craft and sell a few IOs and I know the price point I need to roughly meet in order to make a profit.  I have a feel for the Reserve Prices to post at to get that price point I want.

 

However, things also change.  The range of usual selling prices for items will change.  When there's enough change, I have to adapt the Reserve Prices I post at.  Or wait out a time of low prices on the items I'm selling.

 

I hope my thoughts here help.

 

 

3 hours ago, tidge said:

More generally, about attuning via the AH: Catalysts drop freely, and are often less than 1 MInf on the AH. This means that I pretty much only attune via the AH if the character doesn't have access to a Catalyst or the market price is above 2 MInf. There is a range between 1MInf and 2MInf where I suppose it can make financial sense to use the AH to attune, but this is firmly in the "why bother?" zone for me.

 

Welp, to keep the costs of equipping my Toons as low as possible, I tend to craft all the IOs I need for builds.  I'd prefer to get non-crafted enhancements from the cheapest sources, but in the short run, I will buy them off of the AH.

 

To keep those prices down, I will usually craft an IO at the lowest Level it comes at.  For some, that's what I want (pure Globals or Procs with no enhancement aspects).  Otherwise, I will Market-convert the IOs to highest Level or more often Attuned.  To keep my costs down on Catalysts, I try to make do with just the drops I get on my L50s and only use them for making Superior enhancements.

 

Here's another place where having a 2nd Account helps a lot.  I have only a few Toons there, just an Anchor Toon and a Farmer ATM, who both are where I stockpile a lot of stuff, like Catalysts.  Helps to know to go to just them.  The 2nd Account also helps a lot when using the Market to convert IOs from one Level form to another, as I probe the Market to get a feel for the best price to use, then post the Buy Order on one Account and then put the IO for sale on the other.  That way, the cost to me is just about 10% of the Sale Price for Market Fees.

 

 

Edited July 7 by Jacke

[LKN-351]

Ok whats the best way to go about converting all my IOs to attuned then? Without losing millions in the process.

 

I don't want to be stuck with built characters that only work in 47-50+ content. That doesn't fit the way I play the game.

[lemming]

20 minutes ago, LKN-351 said:

Ok whats the best way to go about converting all my IOs to attuned then? Without losing millions in the process.

 

I don't want to be stuck with built characters that only work in 47-50+ content. That doesn't fit the way I play the game.

It's not the fastest route,but I tend to just catalyze using the Enhancement Catalysts that get dropped (one per day per character) or via the SuperPacks that I sometimes buy.  (Or one could buy them via auction house, or even via merits which is the least bang for the buck version IMO)

 

Caveat being, I've been playing since 2019 and have a ton of characters.  Only 1/3 of them are kitted out completely, though some will need a respec visit since there have been changes.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, LKN-351 said:

Ok whats the best way to go about converting all my IOs to attuned then? Without losing millions in the process.

 

I don't want to be stuck with built characters that only work in 47-50+ content. That doesn't fit the way I play the game.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are building your character through crafting leveled recipes and slotting them?  What I tend to do is, when leveling, always buy the attuned IO that I want through the /AH rather than make it myself.  So, for example, if I had my Build Up power at 17, that's when I would buy the Gaussians Build Up proc.  (Note:  I'm pretty sure that this proc works the same whether it's at level 20 or level 50, but I will buy it as attuned because I like the aesthetics better.)  How do I fund that purchase?  Well, I could take some money from a different character, I could self-finance by crafting set recipes that drop, convert them to something worth more, then sell them, etc.

 

In theory, you could sell every unattuned you have and buy them all back more cheaply, making a net profit.  That takes experience, a little know-how, and a lot of patience.  You'll be hard pressed to sell an unattuned and buy an attuned right nao without losing (potentially a lot of) inf.  You can stock up on catalysts, either through the /AH, through drops from your 50s, from spending merits (although the last isn't particularly efficient.)

 

I actually end up doing the opposite of you, since almost all my enhancements are attuned pre-50.  As I get near 50, I try to buy level 50 pvp IOs to replace the attuned ones I have slotted, and boost them to +5 if I can.  But then again, I'm not counting pennies.

[tidge]

I end up with mostly attuned pieces on just about every build.

 

1) I buy/slot attuned pieces when they first go into the build.

 

2) I use enhancement catalysts to attune a crafted piece already slotted.

 

Because I don't have a large roster of characters, and I tend to craft/convert a lot, I tend to end up with un-catalyzed pieces I am sure I will use eventually, and lots of catalysts, so I do the following...

 

2b) When I respec, I often swap in non-attuned pieces for attuned pieces, so that the attuned pieces are available for another build. Then I attune the slotted pieces after the respec.... unless I have swapped in the 50 PVP/Very Rare pieces that I intend to boost.

 

When the market prices for enhancements are low, this is a waste of Inf. But for many pieces (Steadfast Protection, LotG, sub-50 PVPs) it is extremely convenient to have extras in the base.

[Frozen Burn]

7 hours ago, LKN-351 said:

Ok whats the best way to go about converting all my IOs to attuned then? Without losing millions in the process.

 

I don't want to be stuck with built characters that only work in 47-50+ content. That doesn't fit the way I play the game.

 

Catalysts are too expensive to buy and catalyze an entire build.  To attune all your enhs in a build after a respec, it is cheaper to swap them out on the market.  To do so, it's best to have a second account.

1. Run both accounts.  The alt account should have plenty of Inf for buying what your main account is selling / trying to attune.  (Email them some money if you have to.) 
2. With the alt account, find the IO that you want to attune on the market in the Attuned section.  Make a low-ball bid (not too low) for that IO you want attuned.  Too high, and you'll buy it outright; too low and you'll lost the IO you're trying to attune.  You want to find the sweet spot of having the highest bid, but not buying anyone else's IO.  You may have to creep up/down with your bids.  (This takes practice, knowing the market, and trial and error.)
3. With your Main account, post your IO for 1 Inf.  If your alt account bid right, they will buy an attuned version of your IO and your main account will get their Inf back less a 10% transaction fee (Way less than the cost of a catalyst). 
   1. If you bid too low, you will not get the attuned IO, but your main account will get the other person's Inf and you'll know how much to buy another one for.
   2. If you bid too high, it doesn't matter, and you'll get the IO - however, you'll lose more in transaction fees.  

 

Whether you accidentally buy an attuned IO outright or sell to someone else and have to purchase one, it will all still work out cheaper in the long run doing it this way versus buying a ton of catalysts.

 

For future toons... buy attuned IOs as you level up.  And then any recipes you get, craft, and sell them for whatever profit you can make.  That is the easiest way going forward.  

 

 

Edited July 8 by Frozen Burn

[LKN-351]

6 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are building your character through crafting leveled recipes and slotting them?

 

Thats exactly what I've done. I did think about buying them crafted but when I checked into that it seemed like I was spending a bit less to do that so I kept crafting them. That really just depended on the pieces I was looking for.

I do think I should stop taking the recipe to AH and instead craft it to sell possibly converting it to something else like a few have mentioned but I think I'd end up hyperfocusing on that and spend the few hours I play doing that instead of actually doing content (lol yes i know, the market is technically content also but :-P)

6 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

In theory, you could sell every unattuned you have and buy them all back more cheaply, making a net profit.  That takes experience, a little know-how, and a lot of patience.  You'll be hard pressed to sell an unattuned and buy an attuned right nao without losing (potentially a lot of) inf.  You can stock up on catalysts, either through the /AH, through drops from your 50s, from spending merits (although the last isn't particularly efficient.)

 

Thats what I had thought about doing, unslotting and selling, but I'm not worried about profiting I just don't want to lose infl. I don't have as much know-how as I thought I did and I have a bit of patience but its low too lol

I have always stocked up on catalysts a bit but I didn't get a whole lot till lately where I've actually been playing my 50s. I've got almost 20 on hand, but I sold 15 or so a couple weeks ago.

9 hours ago, lemming said:

It's not the fastest route,but I tend to just catalyze using the Enhancement Catalysts that get dropped

 

6 hours ago, tidge said:

I end up with mostly attuned pieces on just about every build.

 

3 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

For future toons... buy attuned IOs as you level up.  And then any recipes you get, craft, and sell them for whatever profit you can make.  That is the easiest way going forward.  

 

I want to do this going forward, but for now I just need to fix what I've already done.

[tidge]

7 hours ago, LKN-351 said:

I want to do this going forward, but for now I just need to fix what I've already done.

 

If you only have the one level 50, I recommend that you pick some level 50 content you can handle(*1) at +0x8 (solo) and run through it collecting level 50 recipe drops (and whatever else). You can vendor level 50 recipes for an average of 100 KInf. Use the Influence to buy catalysts (they should be 1 MInf or less). This will save you a lot of bother, especially if you don't need to respec.

 

If you have more than one level 50, do this on each of them; you should get a Catalyst drop for each of them once per 24 hours.

 

(*1) I'm going to suggest some content. Don't turn up the difficulty +N, because it is the drops you want more than a little more XP for each individual defeat. You want to be solo, because the drops otherwise get divided up.

 

If your character needs Incarnate components, run Heather Townshend's Dark Astoria Arc, If you have incarnate level shifts you can up +N, it just depends on how your build handles the content.

 

If you don't care about the Incarnate stuff, you could just run Alignment (and then Morality) missions. The Alignment tips are fun, and pretty easy. Every 10 you can do a morality mission for 40 merits.

 

You can of course just run arcs... but I don't like being pinned down in an arc if I am trying to make a buck.

[Without_Pause]

So much of IOing out a build can be summed up to simply having currency. The straightest path forward is get a build to 50, and then keep playing that character even if they just have common IOs. Simply going through the process of getting that character to being T4ed means you should be able to cakewalk having a few 100 million on hand and that's a guess of what you would have as a minimum. With any real AH effort, it would be multiples of that. I have a Vet level 6 build with over 100 million sitting, and I've only converted and sold drops since hitting 50. Getting a build to solo at x8 is helpful since you are maxing out chances for drops. Going +1 or higher just means more incoming currency but not really a requirement. Even if you team, I can make 5+ million in a night's play session with a level 50 character on pure currency intake and not selling anything. You can build incredibly good builds for 300-500 million range depending on a few factors like on-hand resources.  A T4ed build should be able to cakewalk generating that amount, and I feel like I'm in the 20-30 Vet level range for hitting fully T4.

[LKN-351]

Those are good suggestions but I've built 6 level 50 characters with IOs that aren't attuned. LOL That would take a long time.

I know I know it's gunna take some time to redo them though. I'll probably just use some unslotters and then a respec to sell off whats slotted and buy them attuned.

[Yomo Kimyata]

21 minutes ago, LKN-351 said:

Those are good suggestions but I've built 6 level 50 characters with IOs that aren't attuned. LOL That would take a long time.

I know I know it's gunna take some time to redo them though. I'll probably just use some unslotters and then a respec to sell off whats slotted and buy them attuned.

 

Try doing it piecemeal, a few at a session.  At level 50, I have to imagine you probably have some cash around.  Put in orders for things like the Gaussian's at a low ball level, then once you buy it, unslot the fixed level one, replace it, and sell it.

[UltraAlt]

On 7/5/2024 at 7:51 PM, LKN-351 said:

Should I take them down and sell them for lower prices and just take the loss as a learning experience?

 

If you post it, and the market price is fluctuating and you have it posed below what the sale price has been for a while, just leave it up. It will probably sell in 30-40 days at most. Every time you take it down and relist it, it pushes you to the back of the list.

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:51 PM, LKN-351 said:

Since then I've seen the last 5 go over and under as well as the price I listed at a few different times.

 

look at how many are listed being for sale.

Every day your item is up to be bought on the market, more people are most likely posting more new postings of that item to be sold.

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:51 PM, LKN-351 said:

Wehn I hear others talking about AH Attuning it doesnt seem like they're losing money but I feel like if you don't wait weeks/months thats what's gunna happen.

 

Then I wouldn't craft the item to begin with. Sell the recipe for what you can get for it. Buy a catalyst, and attune it yourself.

Heck, yell out in /help that you need a couple of catalysts and someone might just email them to you (I have supplied people with them in the past).

 

On 7/5/2024 at 7:51 PM, LKN-351 said:

What am I missing? Am I doing something wrong?

 

Anticipation is making you wait.

 

 

You can't rush the market.

 

 

The Market is the best PvP in City of Heroes.

 

And there are those out there that here that were working the market even before the Sunset that brought their skills here to Homecoming.

 

Edited July 10 by UltraAlt
type "time" instead of "item"

[tidge]

8 hours ago, LKN-351 said:

Those are good suggestions but I've built 6 level 50 characters with IOs that aren't attuned. LOL That would take a long time.

I know I know it's gunna take some time to redo them though. I'll probably just use some unslotters and then a respec to sell off whats slotted and buy them attuned.

 

7 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Try doing it piecemeal, a few at a session.  At level 50, I have to imagine you probably have some cash around.  Put in orders for things like the Gaussian's at a low ball level, then once you buy it, unslot the fixed level one, replace it, and sell it.

 

You will need some Inf, but I want to second what @Yomo Kimyata wrote: Play 1 hour at  level 50+0x8 with each level 50, and put in some low bids on attuned pieces. Swap to the next character. In addition to 1 catalyst per 24 hours, after 1 hour of such (more-or-less constant) play you should have a 50% chance at a level 50 PVP or Purple Recipe as well.

 

You don't need to do them all at once, and once you have seen what it takes for this bunch, future characters should go smoother.

 

[Jacke]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

If you post it, and the market price is fluctuating and you have it posed below what the sale price has been for a while, just leave it up. It will probably sell in 30-40 days at most. Every time you take it down and relist it, it pushes you to the back of the list.

 

Not only that, but when a Player lists an item, they're charged the 5% listing fee of the reserve price (minimum fee 5 Inf).  If the item sells, that listing fee is deduced from the 10% transaction fee.  But if they remove the item before it sells, they lose that listing fee and have to pay a new listing fee to put the item up for sale again.

 

When the range of price fluctuations of particular items drops and items posted for sale are now at too high a reserve price to move even over weeks, it's necessary to remove and relist the items, suffering the loss of the previous listing fee.  These changes happen and these costs of marketing will happen.  It's why it's important to either keep notes or restrict most items sold to a few, so that the Player remembers what the price ranges were.  Patience is important, but eventually some items will have to be relisted.

Edited July 9 by Jacke