Prelude to the Coming Storm

[Papias]

I would really like to see an issue dedicated to "Prelude to the Coming Storm".  Here are some ideas that I have that might be achievable with limited resources:

 

1. A storyline that presents further hints and explanations about the Coming Storm. If anyone has contact with past CoH developers that could provide feedback and ideas, it would be wonderful.

2. A set of purple Attuned IOs (similar to Winder Event IOs) related to this event.

 

If anyone likes this idea and has more suggestions to add, please do so.

[Greycat]

Personally I'd be fine with the "coming storm" going away. It was a horrible sounding idea, frankly, and mostly pushing more Incarnate stuff in the next tier of abilities (which we have little to no information on.)

[Black Zot]

On 7/18/2024 at 5:24 PM, Greycat said:

Personally I'd be fine with the "coming storm" going away. It was a horrible sounding idea, frankly, and mostly pushing more Incarnate stuff in the next tier of abilities (which we have little to no information on.)

 

Plus it would entail building yet another Villain-Sue enemy group to throw at players with minimal justification, just so we could have a few Incarnate tiers' worth of arc fatigue dealing with them before going back to the usual grind of listening to nerfherders whining about how everything is too easy and how all these shinies people worked to earn should be taken away.

[Techwright]

On 7/18/2024 at 2:56 PM, Papias said:

 If anyone has contact with past CoH developers that could provide feedback and ideas, it would be wonderful.

 

Even if nothing further was ever done with the concept, I'd love to learn any details of a roadmap the OG developers had, assuming there was one.

 

On 7/18/2024 at 4:24 PM, Greycat said:

Personally I'd be fine with the "coming storm" going away. It was a horrible sounding idea, frankly, and mostly pushing more Incarnate stuff in the next tier of abilities (which we have little to no information on.)

 

Whatever it was going to be, the vision/bodysliding that the Mender offers you has us realizing that the ultimate portions are still 5,000 years away, I believe it was.  So we probably never would have dealt with the final stage anyway in the life of the game, unless the big O's efforts, or perhaps the Midnighter's efforts changed things enough that 5,000 became 5.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Techwright said:

Whatever it was going to be, the vision/bodysliding that the Mender offers you has us realizing that the ultimate portions are still 5,000 years away, I believe it was.  So we probably never would have dealt with the final stage anyway in the life of the game, unless the big O's efforts, or perhaps the Midnighter's efforts changed things enough that 5,000 became 5.

Battalion, the Coming Storm, was going to actually be a foe we would fight in the modern age of the game's timeline. Mender Silos is trying to prepare the world for the Coming Storm, because it already happened in his past. What isn't specified is when between our character's "now" and Mender Silos' "now" before he went back in time to found Ouroboros does the Coming Storm happen. With the Coming Storm hitting while your character is still around and visiting the remains of Ouroboros to tell Mender Ramiel to go back in time and set you on the path of the incarnate to fight back. The end result supposedly being that we would free Rularuu long enough to eat Battalion before re-sealing him with the Dagger of Jocasta back in the Shadow Shard.

[Techwright]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

 With the Coming Storm hitting while your character is still around and visiting the remains of Ouroboros to tell Mender Ramiel to go back in time and set you on the path of the incarnate to fight back.

Ah,  I'd thought the "remains of Ouroboros" scene was in the immediate aftermath of the Coming Storm.  Like the big O got its clock cleaned, and as the Storm moved on, passing into the galactic distance, the events with Mender Ramiel in the far distant future, played out.   Which meant everything else were waves of destruction leading to that specific destruction.

 

 

 

Edited July 23 by Techwright

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Ah,  I'd thought the "remains of Ouroboros" scene was in the immediate aftermath of the Coming Storm.

It did. The Coming Storm, Battalion's invasion, occurred, Ouroboros was completely crushed, Primal Earth was presumably but not known whether or not crushed, and with nothing left for it, Battalion left. It got what it wanted.

 

11 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Like the big O got its clock cleaned, and as the Storm moved on, passing into the galactic distance, the events with Mender Ramiel in the far distant future, played out.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. However, what we do not know from Mender Ramiel's arc's first mission, is how far in the future the destruction of Ouroboros is. We know it happened well before Mender Silos went back in time to found Ouroboros, dragging some other Battalion survivors like Twilight's Son that he picked up closer to the event to help try to prevent it. What we also know is that your character re-appears after an unspecified amount of time, which to me seems to just be a few years in the future. Couple that with the leaked YouTube clip that has... I think it was a police officer(?), walk up to Positron during some event and tell Positron that he is a representative of Battalion and offers Positron and the heroes a chance to surrender. Add in that Steven Sheridan was supposed to be working for Battalion, originally it was supposed to be Lady Grey but fortunately the devs changed that after player backlash, and that reduces how far in the future the Coming Storm is supposed to occur.

[BurtHutt]

On 7/18/2024 at 11:56 AM, Papias said:

I would really like to see an issue dedicated to "Prelude to the Coming Storm".  Here are some ideas that I have that might be achievable with limited resources:

 

1. A storyline that presents further hints and explanations about the Coming Storm. If anyone has contact with past CoH developers that could provide feedback and ideas, it would be wonderful.

2. A set of purple Attuned IOs (similar to Winder Event IOs) related to this event.

 

If anyone likes this idea and has more suggestions to add, please do so.

Hard pass here. The build up and constant crap about this Storm went on for so long during Live. Then nothing. The game shuts down. That was very poorly done all around. 

 

This ridiculously long build up should've taught people a lesson. I pray the HC Devs don't follow in the Live Devs' footsteps. Building something for so long in an MMO is not a good idea.

 

If HC gives us the content and concludes that whole Battalion thing then so be it. I would rather they use their time for new things. Sadly, that isn't happening either based on these arcs we're getting.

 

Forget about this Storm or just conclude it very quickly.

[Papias]

If nothing else on the Coming Storm is planned in the future, the very least we could have some closure in the dialog with some of the NPCs in Ouroboros. For example:

 

1. They ran into a chrono-storm on the way here and their entire fleet was obliterated,

2. The Deam Doctor ascended and killed them all.

3. They decided that the well resources on Earth were too miniscule and not worth their time. This is not the planet you are looking for...

4. Their arrival has been delayed for a few hundred years. In the meantime, get stronger.

Edited July 23 by Papias

[tidge]

I had minimal interest in the Incarnate content on Live, my attitude hasn't changed.

 

I still have a deep distaste for the "story telling" direction the game went with end-game Prateoria, Incarnate Dark Astoria, Galaxy City, and the Signature Story Arcs. Why?

 

1) So much of the game is mostly "evergreen" content that felt natural for new characters to experience. "Trashing" entire zones in certain content certainly breaks that immersion.

 

2) I barely care about other players' bios and life choices, why shove the life choices of an NPC like Manticore or Scirocco down my throat? When people talking about the NPC story arcs... I kinda tune out because I'm not playing here to read someone else's comic book story.

 

3) The self-feeding cycling of giving players MOAR POWA wasn't great for the game (blah blah subscriptions blah blah fishcakes). I don't have a dog in that fight, but past conversations with some of the most vocal L33T players are obsessed with what they can have, and any challenge involving taking those things away (enhancements, incarnate powers, whatever) isn't actually a true challenge because the players should be able to use all their AWSUM might. It's this (weird, IMO) mental model of the game's challenges I cannot grok. It's basically the same reason why I disliked almost every appearance of Q in ST:TNG. "I am all powerful and I am bored... and by the way did I mention I am a superior being?"

 

 

 

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I had minimal interest in the Incarnate content on Live, my attitude hasn't changed.

 

I still have a deep distaste for the "story telling" direction the game went with end-game Prateoria, Incarnate Dark Astoria, Galaxy City, and the Signature Story Arcs. Why?

 

1) So much of the game is mostly "evergreen" content that felt natural for new characters to experience. "Trashing" entire zones in certain content certainly breaks that immersion.

 

2) I barely care about other players' bios and life choices, why shove the life choices of an NPC like Manticore or Scirocco down my throat? When people talking about the NPC story arcs... I kinda tune out because I'm not playing here to read someone else's comic book story.

 

3) The self-feeding cycling of giving players MOAR POWA wasn't great for the game (blah blah subscriptions blah blah fishcakes). I don't have a dog in that fight, but past conversations with some of the most vocal L33T players are obsessed with what they can have, and any challenge involving taking those things away (enhancements, incarnate powers, whatever) isn't actually a true challenge because the players should be able to use all their AWSUM might. It's this (weird, IMO) mental model of the game's challenges I cannot grok. It's basically the same reason why I disliked almost every appearance of Q in ST:TNG. "I am all powerful and I am bored... and by the way did I mention I am a superior being?"

 

 

Oh yes, some of the storytelling directions things went is just bad.  Spoilers for some!

Spoiler

• SSA1:  A punk like Darrin Wade killing Statesman ?!?  Stupid!
• SSA1:  Forcing Manticore to kill Sister Psyche going uncontrolled ?!?  Evil!
• Statesman and Sister Psyche NOT coming back as ghosts ?!?

 

And of course, the brutal abuse of Galaxy City for a not-that-great new Tutorial ?!?  I look forward to something being done about that design crime.

 

All these events rammed changes into the early Levels that just make things confusing.

 

And why isn't Back Alley Brawler in Echo:Galaxy City as a Trainer ?!?  Ms. Libery is in Echo:Atlas Park.  And why not SG Portals in both?  Or a working Arena in Echo: Galaxy City?

 

The Incarnate Powers, maybe a bit too much.  I can see why the remaining 4 Powers haven't been released, as there's not a challenge of the scale of them.  But how to adjust this big bump to power without a lot of drama...?

 

 

Edited July 24 by Jacke

[Greycat]

On 7/24/2024 at 12:27 PM, Jacke said:

 

The Incarnate Powers, maybe a bit too much.  I can see why the remaining 4 Powers haven't been released, as there's not a challenge of the scale of them.  But how to adjust this big bump to power without a lot of drama...?

 

 

 

Well, we only know about one of them - Genesis, which would be AOE buff/debuff patches. What the other four would be, we don't know. (Or haven't dug them up, at least. I ran across that one some time ago going through an AMA.)

 

As far as what we'd be facing?

 

The Battalion, of course, was the next thing. With the final challenge from them being the True Batallion, who were the ones "eating" the wells.

 

There *was* some talk about a "final showdown" with Prae Hamidon. Not a lot of detail there, it seemed to be just "this would be ideal." It'd probably be what really finished out all the Praetoria storylines.

 

Other concepts to follow that, which were getting more and more vague? Fighting against Prometheus (Ascended) and the Furies - and the Well itself, to free yourself from it (no worry about "draw too deeply and it can take you over." ) There are higher beings such as Dimensionless, as well. Once you defeated Prometheus/Furies/the Well, the next one mentioned (as we keep ramping power up) is listed as  "The Primordial who came close to destroying the Source at the dawn of existence" (as in a  Primordial, one of the beings that leads the Dimensionless, who did so.)   You'd be the one rallying multiple Wells and some other NPCs to fight at your side (maybe this part of the Incarnate tree would have powers named after the wells. *shrug*)

 

So, yes, power levels go from - 1-50 super => Incarnate => Ascended => Dimensionless => Primordeal. (Just picture that tree. And grinding up those trials...)

 

Not enough? One step *higher* was mentioned where you have to survive a Primordeal/Dimensionless civil war, and *then* fight against the *concepts* of Order and Chaos who erupt from the Void to fight their personification and another being listed as "The first Primordeal to save existance."

 

Granted, we're probably talking issue-late-30s at the earliest by that point, but still.

 

How's that for scale?

 

Edit: For those curious, this is primarily from the AMA/"loregasms" - should be the 2014, as I'd had that handy for other things.

Edited August 19 by Greycat
Sources cited

[Triumphant]

I'm open to anything, if the content if fun.  Having said that, I'm not wedded to continuing the established plot points, per-se.  The thing was supposed to happen in the future.  Perhaps actions by heroes and/or villains (or both) prevented this from happening.  Or maybe the game just takes place in the interim, before these events actually take place.

 

Still, if the Devs want to address it and run with the idea, I'm cool with that too.  It all just comes down to (as with all new content) the execution.  

[Lazarillo]

Put 'em aside and make "canon" the story/end-of-game event that Arcanaville did, where humanity essentially

Spoiler

trapped Battalion in a world with an ultra-Hamdion, fused from the ones of Praetorian and the original Primal earth, Hamidon being the eternal, living antithesis to a the "well of the furies"-type fuel of existence that they were out to consume, then escaped to another reality.

Granted, that has implications for what the present "reality" is, too, but if anything, that might also explain a few things.

Edited August 15 by Lazarillo

[Techwright]

15 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Well, we only know about one of them - Genesis, which would be AOE buff/debuff patches. What the other four would be, we don't know. (Or haven't dug them up, at least. I ran across that one some time ago going through an AMA.)

 

As far as what we'd be facing?

 

The Battalion, of course, was the next thing. With the final challenge from them being the True Batallion, who were the ones "eating" the wells.

 

There *was* some talk about a "final showdown" with Prae Hamidon. Not a lot of detail there, it seemed to be just "this would be ideal." It'd probably be what really finished out all the Praetoria storylines.

 

Other concepts to follow that, which were getting more and more vague? Fighting against Prometheus (Ascended) and the Furies - and the Well itself, to free yourself from it (no worry about "draw too deeply and it can take you over." ) There are higher beings such as Dimensionless, as well. Once you defeated Prometheus/Furies/the Well, the next one mentioned (as we keep ramping power up) is listed as  "The Primordial who came close to destroying the Source at the dawn of existence" (as in a  Primordial, one of the beings that leads the Dimensionless, who did so.)   You'd be the one rallying multiple Wells and some other NPCs to fight at your side (maybe this part of the Incarnate tree would have powers named after the wells. *shrug*)

 

So, yes, power levels go from - 1-50 super => Incarnate => Ascended => Dimensionless => Primordeal. (Just picture that tree. And grinding up those trials...)

 

Not enough? One step *higher* was mentioned where you have to survive a Primordeal/Dimensionless civil war, and *then* fight against the *concepts* of Order and Chaos who erupt from the Void to fight their personification and another being listed as "The first Primordeal to save existance."

 

Granted, we're probably talking issue-late-30s at the earliest by that point, but still.

 

How's that for scale?

There's some interesting stuff in your report that I've never heard.  I didn't realize the Batallion were consuming wells.  I'd just seen them as a generic conquer-all locust swarm.  That must really put the Well in a dilemma.  On the one hand, it loves to see the use of power, and doles it out to those willing to use it.  On the other hand, the Battalions power means its destruction a piece at a time, so...

 

While I'd want to see any Hamidon annihilated, if Praetorian Hamidon were eventually brought down, I'd have to wonder what that mean for the Praetorians who fled to Prime.  Would they have to go back? Remain in Prime due to lingering issues in Praetoria?  Other?

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, Techwright said:

While I'd want to see any Hamidon annihilated, if Praetorian Hamidon were eventually brought down, I'd have to wonder what that mean for the Praetorians who fled to Prime.  Would they have to go back? Remain in Prime due to lingering issues in Praetoria?  Other?

Assuming we get to defeat Praetorian Hamidon and it is a permanent thing unlike it is in Primal Earth where we basically just drive him back and contain him, or at least we are able to somehow contain him to the same extent he is on Primal Earth, then no, the Praetorians still would not (likely) have to go back. However, a great many would likely choose to go back and start rebuilding their home. Last Bastion is evidence of just how determined many Praetorians are to reclaim or hold on to their world, and just how likely they would be to choose to return if they weren't under threat of being Devoured.

[Greycat]

10 minutes ago, Techwright said:

There's some interesting stuff in your report that I've never heard.  I didn't realize the Batallion were consuming wells.  I'd just seen them as a generic conquer-all locust swarm.  That must really put the Well in a dilemma.  On the one hand, it loves to see the use of power, and doles it out to those willing to use it.  On the other hand, the Battalions power means its destruction a piece at a time, so...

 

 

There's a whole thing roughly sketched out between how the Wells, Ascended (and Dimensionless) interact, including Prometheus being a bit jealous and trying to hold back the players because - basically he doesn't want to be replaced.

 

And as far as the well - well, wells - they're all independent of each other, so losing *a* well doesn't seem to affect the others, but would affect the species it's tied to. However, they're all "buffers" between the species tied to them and the Source (which is why beings like DJ Zero and Ruularu, who aren't going through wells but doing things on their own, are "concerning" - the Source is a *lot* of power. As in universe-writing or destroying.)

 

And I didn't find any info right offhand about "what happens after?" for Praetoria if it goes post-Hami-defeat. Especially with other bits mentioned about Cole replacing Statesman here. *Personal* headcanon kind of wants to link his "redemption" to being able to reclaim Praetoria and defeat that Hamidon, but... nothing backing that up. I just think it'd be an interesting way to tie the story together, wrap it in a bow, and - really, just let them recover.

[BurtHutt]

On 7/24/2024 at 8:57 AM, tidge said:

I had minimal interest in the Incarnate content on Live, my attitude hasn't changed.

 

I still have a deep distaste for the "story telling" direction the game went with end-game Prateoria, Incarnate Dark Astoria, Galaxy City, and the Signature Story Arcs. Why?

 

1) So much of the game is mostly "evergreen" content that felt natural for new characters to experience. "Trashing" entire zones in certain content certainly breaks that immersion.

 

2) I barely care about other players' bios and life choices, why shove the life choices of an NPC like Manticore or Scirocco down my throat? When people talking about the NPC story arcs... I kinda tune out because I'm not playing here to read someone else's comic book story.

 

3) The self-feeding cycling of giving players MOAR POWA wasn't great for the game (blah blah subscriptions blah blah fishcakes). I don't have a dog in that fight, but past conversations with some of the most vocal L33T players are obsessed with what they can have, and any challenge involving taking those things away (enhancements, incarnate powers, whatever) isn't actually a true challenge because the players should be able to use all their AWSUM might. It's this (weird, IMO) mental model of the game's challenges I cannot grok. It's basically the same reason why I disliked almost every appearance of Q in ST:TNG. "I am all powerful and I am bored... and by the way did I mention I am a superior being?"

 

 

 

Well said. These new arcs are just awful. And then the story....come on...give me a break. Am I reading a book or playing a game here?! I really am kinda done with these types of adds to the game content. Please stop....just stop...

[Seed22]

On 8/16/2024 at 12:03 AM, BurtHutt said:

Well said. These new arcs are just awful. And then the story....come on...give me a break. Am I reading a book or playing a game here?! I really am kinda done with these types of adds to the game content. Please stop....just stop...

I never viewed reading as an issue for these stories, more or less that they’re…ok. Not crazy great, but not horrendous. Nothing really stands out to me.

 

Narrative in a game isn’t bad, granted illiteracy is at an alarming level now so maybe it is(not saying you’re illiterate Burt). But it isn’t for me at least. I love to read and am exceptionally fast at it to boot so unless I just get bored with the narrative I’m through it in a snap. 
 

But problem, like I said, is that most of the new stuff is literally borderline boring. I mean it’s okay but…well yeah. 

Edited August 18 by Seed22

[BurtHutt]

5 hours ago, Seed22 said:

I never viewed reading as an issue for these stories, more or less that they’re…ok. Not crazy great, but not horrendous. Nothing really stands out to me.

 

Narrative in a game isn’t bad, granted illiteracy is at an alarming level now so maybe it is(not saying you’re illiterate Burt). But it isn’t for me at least. I love to read and am exceptionally fast at it to boot so unless I just get bored with the narrative I’m through it in a snap. 
 

But problem, like I said, is that most of the new stuff is literally borderline boring. I mean it’s okay but…well yeah. 

Reading the material is fine. It just isn't fun. Do you solo these missions or do you play in a team? If you team then you know not all dialogue is available to the entire team. That alone is poor design...and it goes on from there. 

[BurtHutt]

On 7/24/2024 at 10:27 AM, Jacke said:

 

 

Oh yes, some of the storytelling directions things went is just bad.  Spoilers for some!

  Hide contents

• SSA1:  A punk like Darrin Wade killing Statesman ?!?  Stupid!
• SSA1:  Forcing Manticore to kill Sister Psyche going uncontrolled ?!?  Evil!
• Statesman and Sister Psyche NOT coming back as ghosts ?!?

 

And of course, the brutal abuse of Galaxy City for a not-that-great new Tutorial ?!?  I look forward to something being done about that design crime.

 

All these events rammed changes into the early Levels that just make things confusing.

 

And why isn't Back Alley Brawler in Echo:Galaxy City as a Trainer ?!?  Ms. Libery is in Echo:Atlas Park.  And why not SG Portals in both?  Or a working Arena in Echo: Galaxy City?

 

The Incarnate Powers, maybe a bit too much.  I can see why the remaining 4 Powers haven't been released, as there's not a challenge of the scale of them.  But how to adjust this big bump to power without a lot of drama...?

 

 

You also have Liberty and War Witch in two places at the same time. Why not replace one of them with Brawler?

 

Sometimes I just wonder what some Devs were thinking ...lol

[Seed22]

7 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

Reading the material is fine. It just isn't fun. Do you solo these missions or do you play in a team? If you team then you know not all dialogue is available to the entire team. That alone is poor design...and it goes on from there. 

I completely agree. I do the arcs in a small duo or trio with the fam so I’m afforded the luxury of reading the stories. 
 

But its absolutely trash on a full team. Wouldn’t even pretend to try and give it a go in that scenario

[BurtHutt]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

I completely agree. I do the arcs in a small duo or trio with the fam so I’m afforded the luxury of reading the stories. 
 

But its absolutely trash on a full team. Wouldn’t even pretend to try and give it a go in that scenario

Glad you see my point. I team and they're usually full teams. I don't like to solo - I'm playing an MMO for a reason. 

[Jacke]

17 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

You also have Liberty and War Witch in two places at the same time.

 

Like Mercedes Sheldon, they all get around.  😺

[Greycat]

Side note about missing information while on a team -

 

While you do (I believe... have to double check) miss souvenirs, if you hit the "I" to the left of the mission name in the nav bar, you'll get the information the contact's giving - the wheres and whys for the running around you're doing.  (I find people tend not to know about this.)