Energy Mastery for Blasters

[bigsmith62]

Why isn't energy mastery available for blasters? This seems a natural fit for energy blasters.

[arcane]

It’s called Force Mastery unless they changed it.

[Rudra]

No, Force Mastery is a psuedo-Force Field set. Powers include Personal Force Field, Repulsion Field, Temp Invulnerability, Force Bomb and Force of Nature. Whereas Energy Mastery includes Conserve Power, Focused Accuracy, Laser Beam Eyes, Physical Perfection and Energy Torrent.

[Psyonico]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

No, Force Mastery is a psuedo-Force Field set. Powers include Personal Force Field, Repulsion Field, Temp Invulnerability, Force Bomb and Force of Nature. Whereas Energy Mastery includes Conserve Power, Focused Accuracy, Laser Beam Eyes, Physical Perfection and Energy Torrent.

Your version of energy mastery won't happen to blasters, since half of the powers are available in primary or secondary sets.

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

No, Force Mastery is a psuedo-Force Field set. Powers include Personal Force Field, Repulsion Field, Temp Invulnerability, Force Bomb and Force of Nature. Whereas Energy Mastery includes Conserve Power, Focused Accuracy, Laser Beam Eyes, Physical Perfection and Energy Torrent.

Temp Invulnerability and Force of Nature come in both Force Mastery and Energy Mastery. It’s obvious the devs consider them to be the same.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

Temp Invulnerability and Force of Nature come in both Force Mastery and Energy Mastery. It’s obvious the devs consider them to be the same.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Energy_Mastery_(Brute/Tanker)

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.body_mastery&at=scrapper

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.energy_mastery&at=tanker

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.energy_mastery_brute&at=brute

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.body_mastery_stalker&at=stalker

 

No, they don't both get those two powers.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Energy_Mastery_(Brute/Tanker)

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.body_mastery&at=scrapper

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.energy_mastery&at=tanker

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.energy_mastery_brute&at=brute

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.body_mastery_stalker&at=stalker

 

No, they don't both get those two powers.

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.power_mastery&at=defender
 

Yes, they do.

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=epic.power_mastery&at=defender
 

Yes, they do.

I'm still inclined to say they don't. Because your linked Power Mastery states "You have Mastery over Power and Energy to defeat your foes", Force Mastery states "You have Mastery over Energy and Force to protect yourself and defeat your foes.", while Energy Mastery states "You have Mastery over your bodies Energy to increase your power and even hurl energy at your foes." So Power Mastery and Force Mastery read as force field sets to me while Energy Mastery and Body Mastery read as controlling your own body to me.

 

Edit: So, yes, I agree that Power Mastery and Force Mastery are the same, while Energy Mastery and Body Mastery are the same. However, I disagree that all four are the same.

 

Edited July 30 by Rudra

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

I'm still inclined to say they don't. Because your linked Power Mastery states "You have Mastery over Power and Energy to defeat your foes", Force Mastery states "You have Mastery over Energy and Force to protect yourself and defeat your foes.", while Energy Mastery states "You have Mastery over your bodies Energy to increase your power and even hurl energy at your foes." So Power Mastery and Force Mastery read as force field sets to me while Energy Mastery and Body Mastery read as controlling your own body to me.

Bolded the parts where you are confused 

[Rudra]

Just now, arcane said:

Bolded the parts where you are confused 

 

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'm still inclined to say they don't. Because your linked Power Mastery states "You have Mastery over Power and Energy to defeat your foes", Force Mastery states "You have Mastery over Energy and Force to protect yourself and defeat your foes.", while Energy Mastery states "You have Mastery over your bodies Energy to increase your power and even hurl energy at your foes." So Power Mastery and Force Mastery read as force field sets to me while Energy Mastery and Body Mastery read as controlling your own body to me.

Bolded the parts where they aren't the same. It's like claiming that Radiation Blast and Energy Blast are the same because they both use energy. They aren't.

 

Look, I'm inclined to agree with @Psyonico that the OP isn't going to happen because Blasters already get those powers, so if you are arguing because you think I'm in favor of the OP, I'm not. However, those sets are not the same.

[megaericzero]

On the whole, I agree with the sentiment that Force Mastery covers it but I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a more overtly energy-themed mastery anyway. (eg: Kinetic Shield for the smashing-lethal armor)

 

Energy ("pure" energy), Kinetics, and Force Field get mixed and matched visually and conceptually (see: Energy Aura) yet also sometimes get separated (see: Energy Melee vs Kinetic Melee). Heck, Force Mastery borrows Temp Invulnerability and, as far as I'm aware, added Force of Nature even though that is available to Widows who are supposed to be more psionic in nature.

Edited July 30 by megaericzero

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

Bolded the parts where they aren't the same. It's like claiming that Radiation Blast and Energy Blast are the same because they both use energy. They aren't.

 

Look, I'm inclined to agree with @Psyonico that the OP isn't going to happen because Blasters already get those powers, so if you are arguing because you think I'm in favor of the OP, I'm not. However, those sets are not the same.

They literally renamed Power Mastery to Energy Mastery because they are the same. Absolute proof devs agree with me.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

They literally renamed Power Mastery to Energy Mastery because they are the same. Absolute proof devs agree with me.

I missed that. That I concede. I still disagree, but whatever.

[kelika2]

THESAURUS TIME

[Trickshooter]

Regardless of whether you consider Energy Mastery and Force Mastery the same or not, it's easy to see they're intended to be related to each other at least.

 

Blaster's don't have a version of Energy Mastery that looks like everyone else's because:

 

A) Probably 2-4 powers in every version of Energy Mastery is based on a power already available to Blasters, though that's mostly obvious.

 

But ALSO B) At the time most of the original Epics were made, there wasn't really anything Energy-ish in the other archetypes to pull from to make a set that was really Energy-based. I mean, Blasters didn't even get Electrical Mastery (now renamed Electricity Mastery) until Issue 5 because there weren't any Electric sets besides Elec Blast/Manip to pull from either. Controller and Defender's Elec Mastery was 75% just Elec Manip from Blasters.

 

If you're looking for a new Epic for Blasters that's more Energy and less Force, you could do like... Kinetic Mastery, that has like Kinetic Shield and Overload from Energy Aura, or maybe Siphon Power and Siphon Speed from Kinetics. And maybe something awful and hilarious like Repel or Disrupt lol

[Frozen Burn]

Quite frankly, Energy Mastery as it stands elsewhere is not needed on blasters.  They do not need Conserver Power or Physical Perfection due the endurance sustain powers all blasters get.  They don't need Focused Accuracy because blasters have access to Aim (other ATs do not).  And they don't need Energy Torrent because that's already a power they can get in a blast set.  Laser Beam Eyes would be cool to have, but Blaster Mastery sets generally don't give an extra ranged attack like this (albeit some do:  Elec, Mu, & Mace - all others do not).

 

If there was to be an Energy Mastery set for Blasters, it would have to have completely different powers.  Typically, it would need to consist of:

• An armor / shield of some sort 
• Sometimes an "unstoppable" type of power or a rez
• A cone or targeted AOE attack, or a melee attack 
• 1 or 2 mezzes - one single target and/or an AOE 
• A debuff / utility power of some sort 

Current Energy Mastery doesn't fit into this.  Nor are there enough existing "energy" powers from other sets to fill in the mezzes, debuffs, or AOE power slots in the pool without repeating existing energy powers blasters already have access to in their primary and secondary.  Certainly the armor and possible "unstoppable" power choices could be a version of Kinetic Field or Dampening Field, and Overload from Energy Armor set.  But for the others, there isn't much else that goes thematically-wise without tapping into Kinetics (OP) or Electricity / Force Field which have already been done.  New powers would have to be created, imo.

 

[Uun]

21 hours ago, bigsmith62 said:

Why isn't energy mastery available for blasters? This seems a natural fit for energy blasters.

Semantics aside, what powers are you looking for in an Energy Mastery set that aren't already in Force Mastery? Blaster epics typically combine 3 powers from a control or support set with 2 powers from an armor set. While there are fire, ice, electric and dark control and/or support sets, there are no energy control sets and the only energy support set (other than Force Field) is Kinetics. I suppose you could combine Siphon Power, Siphon Speed and Repel from Kinetics and Kinetic Shield and Overload from Energy Aura, but it doesn't strike me as an appealing set. (Don't suggest Fulcrum Shift. It's not going to happen.) 

[archaelia]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

On 7/30/2024 at 8:44 AM, bigsmith62 said:

Why isn't energy mastery available for blasters? This seems a natural fit for energy blasters.

 

Semantics aside, what powers are you looking for in an Energy Mastery set that aren't already in Force Mastery? Blaster epics typically combine 3 powers from a control or support set with 2 powers from an armor set. While there are fire, ice, electric and dark control and/or support sets, there are no energy control sets and the only energy support set (other than Force Field) is Kinetics. I suppose you could combine Siphon Power, Siphon Speed and Repel from Kinetics and Kinetic Shield and Overload from Energy Aura, but it doesn't strike me as an appealing set. (Don't suggest Fulcrum Shift. It's not going to happen.) 

 

I might be projecting here but I think at the simplest level we are perhaps encountering a blaster player who wants to be able to run with the new eye beam sweep animation in the OP, and also may not be familiar with the history of Epic Power Pools, their proliferation, or why Epic pools look/behave differently from AT to AT. All of these points have roughly been explained in this thread. Personally I'm hoping that animation comes to Energy Blast for Blasters and other blast-mates who have Energy Torrent eventually, but I don't think that needs to come at the expense of changing how Epic pools are structured for those ATs.

HOWEVER, Energy Blast Blasters don't get Laser Beam Eyes, only Radiation Blast gets that for Blasters -- Which means there is a thematic mismatch/hole between available appearances for *some* energy themed characters, depending on how a player imagines them in the first place. On that note, I am desperately hoping that with this animation customization test, we will soon see other animations proliferated to related pools/sets.

Edited July 31 by archaelia

[bigsmith62]

Actually I think the most valuable would be Conserve power.

[Psyonico]

2 hours ago, bigsmith62 said:

Actually I think the most valuable would be Conserve power.

Which blasters already have various versions of.

[Uun]

14 hours ago, bigsmith62 said:

Actually I think the most valuable would be Conserve power.

Conserve Power was part of the Energy Manipulation set. It was renamed Energize in I24 and +regen and a heal were added to the endurance discount. In I24, all blaster secondaries were given a "sustain" power which provides an endurance discount or recovery buff, as well as +regen, absorption or heal over time. Because of this, blasters are the AT least in need of endurance help and there's little reason for endurance management tools in the Epic sets.