New Group Fly suggestion

[Wavicle]

Change the way Group Fly works. Group Fly when toggled on would:

A) Make you and all YOUR pets fly.

B) Provide teammates with a server tray power that when toggled would make them and all THEIR pets fly.

 

I would also increase the range by a lot to make it easier not to drop people, and maybe provide a buffer period of 15 seconds after you leave the AoE but the power persists.

[Seldom]

I had a similar idea I posted a while back. In today's game granting flight, particularly when they are literally handing out jet-packs, is passé. That said, it's still a favorite for my masterminds, especially post 'minions never drop' patch. I love it, but it's still the only power I have to warn folks about, and one of the 2 that people will tell others to turn off. I get it, not everyone likes to fly, and it does mess with some powers, but BOY is it fun to see flying demons/zombies/robots/doggos/hoodlums.

I am in favor of anything to make it less intrusive, and also more pet-friendly!

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

A) Make you and all YOUR pets fly.

With this change, the Flight Power Pool would have three powers that make the player Fly.

 

Hover, Fly, Group Fly.

 

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

B) Provide teammates with a server tray power that when toggled would make them and all THEIR pets fly.

How? With the way this is written, I could keep opening and closing another player's popup tray and they would have to move out of range, which you want to increase. 

 

4 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I would also increase the range by a lot to make it easier not to drop people, and maybe provide a buffer period of 15 seconds after you leave the AoE but the power persists.

This already occurs. Group Fly passengers can move more than 60ft away from the Group Fly player and they have 10 seconds. 

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

With this change, the Flight Power Pool would have three powers that make the player Fly.

 

Hover, Fly, Group Fly.

 

How? With the way this is written, I could keep opening and closing another player's popup tray and they would have to move out of range, which you want to increase. 

 

This already occurs. Group Fly passengers can move more than 60ft away from the Group Fly player and they have 10 seconds. 

 

I can imagine there would be some details to work out. 

[mistagoat]

Regular fly should just extend to the owners pets and Group Fly should be eliminated in favor of anything else. MMs are the only folks who get any use out of it so lets not increase the end consumption and just give them a freebee here. Every toon in the game gets a free jet pack just for hitting level 2 so if the MM ever has a need for just themselves to fly but not their pets they can use that free jetpack.

 

Speaking for myself, I have never and will never need, want or benefit from another player bestowing flight upon me. It's an antiquated power that doesn't fit in the modern game.

 

Yes, yes, turn it off at Null, I know, but that doesn't help at all when you're on a TF with an old toon that didn't select that option and now you're a hover tank with no control and it's gonna be a miserable TF. It's a troll power with an awful opt out mechanic. I understand the game limitations and why it's done at Null but that sure doesn't make it convenient.  The never ending stream of posts that are all variations of "how to make group fly not the most obnoxious power in the game" is proof that there is a real issue. 

 

[tidge]

On 8/26/2024 at 8:46 PM, Glacier Peak said:

With this change, the Flight Power Pool would have three powers that make the player Fly.

 

Hover, Fly, Group Fly.

 

I don't understand this point. Currently IIRC Group Fly already allows a player character Flight. (It's not great, but it does)

 

Before I proceed, I want to note that I have no problems with the way Group Fly works. I am unconvinced that there is any measurable amount of suggestions to change it that don't derive from a player who either didn't know how to turn it off (via Null the Gull), didn't remember to turn it off (if it upsets them) or resented having to turn it off.

 

Frankly, the three powers that all offer some form of "flight", plus a power that adds "control" and "speed" is one of the things that I find odd about the Flight pool. From a historical context, I can understand why the pool is the way it is, but that doesn't mean I feel good about it it. I think the issue with the Flight pool is more subtle than players feeling griefed about Group Fly.

 

My understanding of the historical context is that the original Devs were worried that if Fly was "too good" that there would be a very strong preference among players to take the Flight pool over all other travel powers. Part of this is simply navigating zones, part of this is a concern that "hover-blasting" would make the game "too easy". As a result, side from a somewhat common circumstance of including an attack power in the pool  (Air Superiority), the first available flying power (Hover, a toggle) is pretty much most valuable on instanced maps as it is generally harder to "hover blast" on typical maps, and the complete lack of flying speed is less noticeable. Fly (another toggle) was established as the set's "travel power", with the (my choice of words) gimping of "control" (unless Hover is also toggled on) and travel speed (see original compromise/fear among travel pool options above). 

 

Group Fly is yet another toggle... it hasn't been helpful to (other) PCs for a long time (travel powers can be picked sooner, temp flight powers have long existed) but remains useful for henchmen/pet ATs. Evasive Maneuvers is a fourth toggle that mitigates (somewhat) the gimping (my word) of Fly (one of those other toggles) in terms of control and speed.

 

TL;DR: Four toggles is too many! As a practical matter, if a player is running the flight pool (with or without Group Fly) at least three powers must be toggled on to get the full benefits of what Flight offers, with a fourth toggle for Group Fly. On the surface this may not seem completely unreasonable, but with so many other travel powers offering combinations of travel effects (superspeed, teleport, flying) with a single toggle... it strikes me as lackluster that Flight requires as many as four toggles and all it gets is an occasional Afterburner.

 

These toggles take up shelf space in the trays! My own suggestion? Make Evasive Manuevers an auto power (no endurance cost), and make it selectable starting at level 20.

[Ukase]

I would welcome the option to disable/enable group fly in Menu-options, rather than visiting Null. 

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Ukase said:

I would welcome the option to disable/enable group fly in Menu-options, rather than visiting Null. 

Menu options don't grant players powers and it took a power to disable the effects of Group Fly on others.

[srmalloy]

10 hours ago, tidge said:

I don't understand this point. Currently IIRC Group Fly already allows a player character Flight. (It's not great, but it does)

The problem is that it doesn't allow a character to fly; it forces them to fly. You don't get the option; if someone has Group Fly on, and you're within the area of effect, you will be flying. That's what the option from Null addresses, and changing Group Fly to make what it does more manageable is what this thread, and the others going back to Live, is about.

[tidge]

24 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

The problem is that it doesn't allow a character to fly; it forces them to fly. You don't get the option; if someone has Group Fly on, and you're within the area of effect, you will be flying. That's what the option from Null addresses, and changing Group Fly to make what it does more manageable is what this thread, and the others going back to Live, is about.

 

I'm referring to the player that TAKES Group Fly, not an ally affected by it. No other toggles (aside from Group Fly) is needed to achieve lift-off.