Aggravated

[Demobot]

Sucks to be booted from a TF, but their team, their rules.

[RCU7115]

21 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

 

I agree, but there's nothing you can do.  Just one star the team leader so you know to avoid him or her in the future.  You can also start forming your own teams.  If people complain about you using Group Fly while leading the teams, you can point them to Null the Gull.  If they still complain, then you can kick them.  I do.

Team Lead get 5 Stars 🌟 

[kelika2]

22 hours ago, Gravitus said:

This is a vent post...and if this describes something you've done to others, I hope you stub your toe walking around the house this week.

 

So, I run a bots mm that utilizes group fly.

No the leader was right to kick you.

Not only were you selfish you were also fucking with EVERYONES Muscle Memory.

If someone is acclimated to Combat Jumping to move around then being caught up in someones Group Fly is annoying as hell.

And I guarantee you that people do not know if you fly as close to the ground as you can get you can still stomp/burn/etc

 

 

This is the equivalent of having a nice comfy ass Logitech plainjane keyboard for the better part of a decade and the little green electronic board thing starts rusting and dying then finding out all physical stores near you are sold out so now you have to settle for a micro flashing led light keyboard with super small ass keys with no gap between the F# and # keys and one that is either flat or at an angle you are not used to while you wait for amazon to ship a clone of your old buddy.

 

JOJO MOMENT TIME

 

Now you are probably thinking everyone should always goto Null the Gull for you and just you or think "hey you already goto him for something or another, change your ways for me!"

This is looping back to the selfish thing.

 

Group Fly isnt even welcome in Mastermind Monday

Even tactical team teleporting to move a stuck pet or getting the hell out of the way or trying to catch up after one or two others deals with stagglers/self rezzers they are not too crazy about.

 

OP, may you lose your pinky toe nail to a horrible lego accident and it never regrows if you ever group fly in one of my groups

[Max Firepower]

20 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Fixed that up a bit for us 

Off topic - please remove.  Sorry

 

Edited September 17 by Max Firepower
off topic

[RCU7115]

20 hours ago, Gravitus said:

The public education system has failed me

No excuses,  🤣😂

[RCU7115]

18 hours ago, Gravitus said:

Not agreeing with several of you doesn't make me a narcissist.

 

Yes, I am passionate about this particular opinion I have about the game. I've been nothing but civil. Some of you need to grow up. 

I don't want to grow up, I'm a Toys"R"us kid.

Edited September 17 by RCU7115

[Lunar Ronin]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Rocket boots is not enough of a reason to grief other players with group fly. Group fly is not a necessary tool to play an MM well (including bots). If you can not take a modicum of responsibility for your actions and how they affect others, and acknowledge that all of our time playing this game is valuable (you are hardly the only casual player with limited playing time), then you're going to find yourself getting booted quite a bit.

 

Group Fly is a necessary tool for Mastermind henchmen to be useful during the pylon and Rikti drop ship phases of a Rikti mothership raid.  If I disable Group Fly during the pylon phase, my henchmen are dragged through all of the level 54 mobs on the ground while moving between pylons, and summarily get defeated in seconds.  Then it's about ten to fifteen minutes of constantly re-summoning, re-equipping, and re-upgrading the henchmen during the pylon phase, and doing no damage.  If I keep the henchmen up in the air with Group Fly, then that is not an issue, and I don't have to re-summon, re-equip, and re-upgrade them nearly as much, meaning they do a lot more damage.  Group Fly is also the only way they can do damage against the Rikti drop ship.

 

So yes, sometimes Group Fly is actually very helpful and necessary.  If people are too lazy to take the two minutes to go to Null the Gull, or take the additional ten seconds at Null the Gull whenever they change alignment, then to be frank that is their problem.  Not the Group Fly user's.

[RCU7115]

18 hours ago, Maelwys said:

This.

I actually agree with the statement "Group Fly is very useful on certain ATs, therefore anyone who wishes to never be affected by it should visit Null the Gull to turn it off".

However I do not agree with the statement "Whilst on a TF the Leader asked me to do X. I refused to do X. The leader booted me. Therefore the leader in question is a very terrible person and anyone who disagrees with me should go whack their foot off a skirting board."

I mean, we all love a good rant and a therapeutic bitching session about Group Fly and/or Knockback and/or nerfing Regen.
However as a PUG horror story this needs 50% more Snarky.
 

If you say Snarky 3 times in a row does he appear ??

[Andreah]

The Null the Gull things are coded in a kludgy, unrefined, imperfect manner, because they only got done at all because they were cheaply and easily done that way. 

 

Reversing the logical sense of it might sound good & easy, but imagine if, that being done, now you had to go to Null the Gull and enable Group Fly on your pets? Individually? Every time you summoned them? I haven't looked at that code, but this is the sort of thing that can sometimes happen when you try putting yet another band-aid on an existing band-aid in a complex software system.

 

Now imagine HC decides to put the effort into fixing it "the right way" -- as a proper character toggle in your settings. That's database, coding, UI, and probably other things like testing every pet in the game for it, and so on, to do. On top of that, everyone who had used Null the Gull now has to set this new setting, with most forgetting to until they get hit by it in game, complaining in game, and complaining here in the forums.

 

I have an easier solution.

 

1. Go see null the gull and choose your setting.

2. If you forget and get hit by it then politely drop, or stay and grumble silently, and then fix it later.

3. If you use it and get told by your team or league leader to stop, do that or politely drop.

Edited September 17 by Andreah

[TygerDarkstorm]

6 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

 

Group Fly is a necessary tool for Mastermind henchmen to be useful during the pylon and Rikti drop ship phases of a Rikti mothership raid.  If I disable Group Fly during the pylon phase, my henchmen are dragged through all of the level 54 mobs on the ground while moving between pylons, and summarily get defeated in seconds.  Then it's about ten to fifteen minutes of constantly re-summoning, re-equipping, and re-upgrading the henchmen during the pylon phase, and doing no damage.  If I keep the henchmen up in the air with Group Fly, then that is not an issue, and I don't have to re-summon, re-equip, and re-upgrade them nearly as much, meaning they do a lot more damage.  Group Fly is also the only way they can do damage against the Rikti drop ship.

 

So yes, sometimes Group Fly is actually very helpful and necessary.  If people are too lazy to take the two minutes to go to Null the Gull, or take the additional ten seconds at Null the Gull whenever they change alignment, then to be frank that is their problem.  Not the Group Fly user's.

This thread started about TF's not MSR's. MSR's and Hami are the exception to the rule and well known as group fly friendly events. This does not make the argument you think it does for regular game play.

 

It is entirely possible to play a fully functional mastermind without group fly, even on MSR. And not having your henchmen out for pylons wouldn't be that detrimental anyway, unless you're running an MSR with hardly any people.

[RCU7115]

18 hours ago, Gravitus said:

When someone has access to a tool to make something not a problem and they neglect to use it...the ball is in that person's court for what comes after. This is very basic logic. Null has that option so people can not be affected by GF whilst still letting people use GF. So, the idea that I expect people to cater to me is utter nonsense. 

 

Also, you are ASSUMING the team was being affected...he's the only guy in the entire chat log that said anything, he just happened to have a star by his name. 

 

So, we have a guy that didn't use Null, was the only one whom asked me to turn it off....and let me waste about 45 min of my life before it was an issue. 

 

It's clear someone hurt you with GF at some point in time.... let it go homie. 

Some people don't want confrontation and ask the Team Leader for that help. The Team Leader was probably getting pm's about it and sent you the request to stop using it. You didn't.

The Team Leader then used a Tool he/she had available and kicked you from the team to solve the problem.

[Mopery]

Fight the power.

We've got to fight the powers that🐝.

[RCU7115]

18 hours ago, Uncle Shags said:

The fact that you can't visit null gull while in a tf should be the end to this debate.  People may not know or forgot to visit the gull and shouldn't be punished for that. 

 

 Here's an example of why.  Titan weapon.  The T9 attack requires feet on the ground.  You can't use a key attack when flying!  I was on a 8 man team recently when I encountered this. After a couple missions, when I realized whoever was doing it wasn't going to stop, I said in chat, "Sorry, BRB.  I'm going to Pocket D to turn off group fly."  If I couldn't have done that because of a tf I would have asked to send the group fly.  The scrapper ATO crit proc was slotted in the power I couldn't use. A key, nearly core, defining ability deemed unusable by group fly.

 

Seems like a no brainer. 

 

 

I believe Electric Armor needs feet on the ground for it's KB protection.

[RCU7115]

18 hours ago, Gravitus said:

Thats not true at all...don't believe me...google ad populum on personal opinion and read the examples. Some of the most notorious examples of ad populum are pure opinion. At least here I'm attempting to lay out the logic. 

 

Someone say Logic

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, RCU7115 said:

If you say Snarky 3 times in a row does he appear ??

If I say it in the right place, at the proper time...it's a possibility. 

[Skyhawke]

3 minutes ago, RCU7115 said:

I believe Electric Armor needs feet on the ground for it's KB protection.

 

Oh boy, does it ever! I'm running a Staff/Elec Brute lately and have fallen victim to the "Hey, why am I floating and why am I now floating away really fast and now I'm way out of melee range" syndrome. Life ending? Nope. Annoying? Yup. 

 

Again, a quick "Hey, mind if I turn on group fly?" would've been appreciated. The Tank asked if GF could be turned off because it's messing with the melee folks and the MM turned it off. 

[RCU7115]

18 hours ago, JasperStone said:

If the Team leader asks you to turn it off, then do so.

...

My respond first would have been

Player: "Odd,  I have seen no complaints in chat"

Team Leader: "I was sent tells complaining of GF"

Player has left TF

 

Yup ... I would have left.

 

Any complaints should go in the Team Chat

 

[lemming]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

If someone is acclimated to Combat Jumping to move around then being caught up in someones Group Fly is annoying as hell.

This was my issue once on a char.  Though with me I was Super Jumping over to another area and got caught in the GF field.

The muscle memory bit is a good point.

[Ukase]

54 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

This thread started about TF's not MSR's. MSR's and Hami are the exception to the rule and well known as group fly friendly events. This does not make the argument you think it does for regular game play.

 

It is entirely possible to play a fully functional mastermind without group fly, even on MSR. And not having your henchmen out for pylons wouldn't be that detrimental anyway, unless you're running an MSR with hardly any people.

It is true the thread was about an anecdote/incident in a TF. And while somethings might be "entirely possible", that doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable or optimal. I've played a couple of MMs to 50. They're not my thing. I think I just let my thugs and beasts follow behind me during the pylon phase. None of them made it, but I didn't care. It was an MSR. But - I was on Excelsior where it used to be fairly common for folks to put an attack on auto-fire and come back 25-30 minutes later. It may still well be common. 

Lunar is on Indom. They wait (to my impatient perspective) FOREVER just to get 4-5 teams. So, one player's solution may not fit all players. I suspect they would miss the damage, although I could be wrong. Still, while I cede the point that MSR and Hami raids are distinctively different than a TF, it does illustrate at a minimum why someone would use the power and be perfectly in their rights to do so. Even if it does take my fire tank in the air where I can't use burn. It'd be my own fault. 

Mind you - it wouldn't make me any happier. But, as mentioned, there is a solution for that. I take the side of the leader in the OP's post to a point. But kicking over a playstyle thing is a bit silly to me. The only power that really drives me nuts is that distortion field, or whatever it's called where you can't damage the npcs (and they can't damage you). I can totally get why a squish might activate it in certain situations, but not in an MSR, lol. (although I've seen it done!) 

I would say half of the problems most of us have in this game with other people is communication. Sometimes, too much communication. Sometimes, not enough. 

[Gravitus]

15 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

You have access to a tool to make GF not a problem - turning it off.  That's very basic logic too.  Not having GF on in no way prevents you from playing your character at all.  You yourself have admitted a few times now that you don't use it everywhere all the time, so it's clear it isn't necessary, so turning it off when requested by others in a team isn't a hardship for you. 

Why do you consistently gloss over the fact that the null solution solves everyone's problems, whereas what you're suggesting only appeases one side? Accomodating laziness and/or forgetfulness isn't a defense full stop.

15 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

 

So you say.  None of us were there and can know what happened for sure.  What we do know is that the team leader asked you to turn off GF because it bothered them, and you refused to do it, so they booted you.  They didn't do anything wrong.

So, let me get this straight, you're willing to believe 90% of what I've typed except the part where it could sound like I had a good reason for my actions? It's called cherry picking. You should avoid that if you want to be taken seriously. 

15 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

And had you just turned off GF as requested, you could have finished the TF without any problem.  Again, it's you that's the problem here

And I'm venting about it. Never said I was seeking approval. 

 

 

I can comfortably say that I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been on a team or league with someone using GF.

So why should your opinion be taken seriously then? lack of experience with GF and teaming which actually explains alot.

 

  And in each instance if it was disruptive to the rest of the team, that person was kind enough to turn it off.

Context matters, when it hasn't been an issue for most of the TF, its dumb to complain about it later. I've already explained that in most cases even though I disagree with the notion, I would have turned it off at the beginning of the TF if asked, butr that ship had already sailed. 

  They weren't rabid narcissists, so they didn't have an issue with it and throw tantrums about it.

LOL ooook

  I don't team a lot,

Clearly and it shows.

  but when I do most people are happy to adjust their play style to accommodate the needs of the team.

You mean the needs of the guy holding the star. Listening isn't your strong suit clearly... You'd rather be right

   Most people realize teaming is a social interaction that's about the group, not just you.

Which is why I can count how many times on one hand I've taken a boot in the 10+ years I've played this game. 

 

[Gravitus]

12 hours ago, Andreah said:

You can tell a topic gets people excited when if gets so many responses in just a few hours. 

 

I agree, group fly is annoying. I always turn it off for my characters immediately when I create them. But not everyone does, and it's often just because they're in a hurry to get to content and eventually forget about it.

 

But a team leader's request should be honored, even on a TF. If it were me, I would follow the request, or politely leave the team. 

I mean generally that's fair.....but at what point do you put your foot down? I completed most of the TF by that point and wanted the completion reward, so quitting wasn't happening. But with it not being an issue for most of the TF and only one guy bitching about it, to me I'm just like...sorry bud, that ship has sailed. 

[Gravitus]

7 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

  Yeah those are farm accounts.

 

What if I told you AFK farming was a thing for people who don't have alot of time.....I know...only the non noobs know about it...but now you know. 

 

 

 

 

[RCU7115]

Hey newbie did you ever find PD and see Null ?

[Gravitus]

3 hours ago, Seed22 said:

OP, even though they seem to display serious narcissism and main character syndrome, it sucks that they got booted at the tail end of the TF. Which is weird. I don’t know if they were using GF all throughout the TF, and if so why not boot them at the beginning? Or if it were used in that one mish and then the incident occurred in which case OP subscribed to the FAFO method. 
 

Thats the only way I could see this being two sided, otherwise its pretty cut n dry. 

Dude....that's literally what was said...I said it wasn't an issue for most of the TF and then all of a sudden it became an issue from one guy...the leader.... generally if it's multiple people you hear the bitching in team chat,

[Nerio72]

12 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Why do you consistently gloss over the fact that the null solution solves everyone's problems, whereas what you're suggesting only appeases one side? Accomodating laziness and/or forgetfulness isn't a defense full stop.

Its not laziness on anyone's part that they didn't go turn off your power. You think that is the answer because that makes it so YOU don't have to do anything. You were asked to turn off a power that was affecting other peoples play, refused and got kicked for it. And based on this thread I'm guessing you didn't refuse politely. I'm guessing you called someone lazy?