Immortality-Friendly Sets

[ApollyonJones]

I apologize if this question has been covered before, but I looked for quite a while without finding it.

 

I'm a fairly n00bish player who has been gone for several years.  I just finished leveling and slotting a non-granite stone/fire tank (he's awesome) and as I have begun incarnating him, I have been pleased to find almost all of his resistances and defenses capped (toxic defense and psychic resistance still lacking, but oh, well).  To be completely accurate: most of the resistances are around 10% below the cap, but I hit the Hybrid Melee incarnate toggle and they all smash hard into that 90%, and that's good enough for me.  I do the S/L and fire farms at +4/8 and my hit point bar almost never blinks.

 

I know many tanker sets are great but are so strongly focused on resist OR defense that capping both is not really feasible.

 

So, I'm asking you all-wise posters and lurkers: which other sets can be maxed for both resist and defense, or at least maxed in most of the important categories: S/L, energy, all the common stuff?  And, if you could rank them by how WELL they cap both sides, how would you do so?  And, would these sets be just as good for a brute?

 

Thanks in advance.

[xaix1999]

Will you be wanting to do general content? I ask since you mentioned doing s/l and fire farms. I do not do AE farms and so I join tf's or itf's and some arcs.

Doing general content as a group and as a tanker can be very different than AE farms. Having 32% melee defense can do crazy wonders for a 70ish to 50ish percent tank and 45% melee defense will really help. I went with the SR route and I'm really enjoying it, though I've heard some people suggest shield over SR or ice, when it comes to defense.
There is a bunch of invuln builds out there and shield or bio armor is also a fun armor set. As a tank I would suggest you pick the play style that you are looking for.

I have a dark/dark tank and my SR/MA tank, the SR/MA is WAY more damage than my dark/dark but it's also single target focused and my dark/dark is more cone/aoe focused.

I tend to make cheap builds and don't go for the crazy bling'd out io builds. If you have a farmer and are interested in farming up the cash for one of those +5 io set builds then you might be interested in some of these links that I searched for. Even if you are not doing a +5 io set build, these links can help with getting a super hero concept going for the ideal hero you want to play.

Minmax Melee Archetype Comparison & Tier List - Archetypes - Homecoming
Infinitum Build Collection - Tanker - Homecoming
Accolade Guide: 4 Passive Bonuses - Guides - Homecoming
 

Hopefully these will give you plenty of food for thought.

Edited October 21 by xaix1999

[ApollyonJones]

I'm only doing the farms to collect my incarnate threads and whatnot, but no: I'm not interested in just farming forever.  I have an old spines/fire brute if I just want to farm influence.  I'd like my toons to be useful for anything.  I mean, I want to main-tank Hamidon.  But I want to be useful for anything else, too.  And there's nothing sadder than a tank that can't stay alive, followed closely by a tank that depends so strongly on defender support that he has to be constantly baby-sat.  I want to be as death-proof as possible, in as many situations as possible.

Thanks for the links; they're awesome, and they're a decent answer to all of my questions.  If anyone has other thoughts, I'd welcome those as well.

Edited October 21 by ApollyonJones

[Psyonico]

You can do some fun things with Rad/MA.  You can get really high resists and soft cap M/R/AoE defense as well with Storm Kick.  The only issue is Rad doesn't have any Defense Debuff Resistance, so cascading failure *will* happen.

[Spaghetti Betty]

The easiest Tanker to play in the game is probably SR/Dark, IMO. You'll be pretty much invulnerable to damage by 35.

 

Super Reflexes Tankers will have soft-capped positional DEF on just SOs. Simple IO slotting will put them near the Incarnate softcap. Dark Melee will bridge that gap with -Tohit, plus Siphon Life for a little bit of sustainability. Building for damage is also very straightforward, since your goal will be to build recharge for Soul Drain uptime.

 

It's also extremely easy to build RES because Tanker things. And SR has built-in scaling RES bonuses if you start taking damage!

Edited October 21 by Spaghetti Betty

[Sovera]

Stone is what I'd consider the most immortality friendly of the bunch. I built a Stone/Fire as well (in my signature) and 55% defense (including to psi) with 81% resists across the board is a bit nuts.

 

 

For example pairing Stone with Martial Arts.

 

At minimum it would be 65% defenses instead. But that's way overkill. Instead it could free slotting to finish pushing resistances to 90% (or 85% and have Barrier do the last 5%) which should be plenty doable. Between the CC in Cobra Strike and Crane Kick and Dragon's Tail it would further push that survivability.

 

 

Edit: Just as a thought exercise slapped together and not fine tuned. Not something I'd run since I'd prefer having the better recharge and be missing 9% off reaching the cap instead. But, considering two stacks of the ATO + 5% from Barrier makes 18.4% and that the defenses are at minimum 71.6% then 71.6 + 18.4% makes exactly 90% for 100% of the time while still having 45% defenses without Weave, 50% with Weave, and 55% with Barrier.

 

Tanker (Stone Armor - MA).mbd

 

Edited October 22 by Sovera

[Uun]

Stone Armor is a hybrid set. It relies on defense for S/L/E/N/P and resistance for F/C/T. It uses typed not positional defense, so don't worry about capping M/R/A defense. 

[Without_Pause]

On 10/21/2024 at 3:34 PM, ApollyonJones said:

I'm only doing the farms to collect my incarnate threads and whatnot

I would solo Heather Townshend's initial arc in DA to get Incarnate drops. I solo it at even level(whatever that may be as you can be up to +3 against incarnate content) and x1. You're doing it for speed more than anything. This can be repeated until you are sick of it or done. This can be done via Flashback or as once after initial contact. There is a contact to get a mission once per 20 hours there for 10 extra threads. The contact depends on what side you are on, Ephram Sha(Blue) or Maharaj(Red).

 

Outside of Stone, you are looking for hybrids like Invul or Shield. I would look at Ice or Dark if you want an immortal friendly build.

[Warshades]

I think the top contenders are generally going to be stone, invuln, shield, and SR as they're the most "hybrid" of the bunch by focusing on a combination of defense and resistance (SR being the one that feels a bit weird to play for the first time as you can see your health dip low and then never move again as it hits 90% resists across the board). All of these when fully built don't have any issues with any end game content imo, it's mostly about what you enjoy playing most. I'm actually really loving stone armor without granite, it's extremely sturdy.

 

As stated before, SR requires you being at lower HP to cap resists, but you can also build towards resist bonuses so that you can reach the resist cap earlier with a higher HP left. Stone is perhaps the easiest to cap nearly everything (defense and resistance) with granite with the exception of maybe psi defense that it gets none of outside of set bonuses while in granite. Invuln is similar, very easy to soft cap def to all but psi and hard cap all resists (including psi). Shield you'll easily soft cap positional def and can get close to hard capping all resists (my shield/dark gets within 4-8% of hard cap with barrier and 2 SMoT procs stacked, 13% short on tox/psi).

 

Dark armor can soft cap and hard cap as well, but it doesn't actually have any DDR to carry that defense throughout a fight so I consider it more of a resist set than a hybrid (though it is nearly immortal anyway thanks to dark regen heal). Ice is also a hybrid but falls shorter on a few more resists and defenses than the other sets. If tanks ever get energy aura as a set, I think it would also be a top contender for a hybrid armor that can easily soft cap and hard cap nearly everything.

[Marshal_General]

On 10/21/2024 at 6:05 PM, Spaghetti Betty said:

The easiest Tanker to play in the game is probably SR/Dark, IMO. You'll be pretty much invulnerable to damage by 35.

 

Super Reflexes Tankers will have soft-capped positional DEF on just SOs. Simple IO slotting will put them near the Incarnate softcap. Dark Melee will bridge that gap with -Tohit, plus Siphon Life for a little bit of sustainability. Building for damage is also very straightforward, since your goal will be to build recharge for Soul Drain uptime.

 

It's also extremely easy to build RES because Tanker things. And SR has built-in scaling RES bonuses if you start taking damage!

My problem with SR is the mobs that have

player defense=0

In their code. I hate auto hit attacks that ignore defense. Luckily there are not a whole lot of them, but the ones that exist irritate me into logging out.

[Gobbledigook]

Shield/Dark would certainly be a top contender. Dark will help shield with Endurance and heals and small debuffs and provide the +to hit. 

 

Invuln/MA or Staff is also a contender.

 

SR/Staff.

 

 

[Sovera]

I just posted a more traditional Stone/MA build. Without incarnates it has 60% defense and 70/76% resists with one or two stacks of the ATO, and then nearly 400% regen (58 HPs). With incarnates add a permanent 5% to the defense and resists.

[Zect]

On 10/22/2024 at 1:53 AM, ApollyonJones said:

So, I'm asking you all-wise posters and lurkers: which other sets can be maxed for both resist and defense

 

Tankers that can fairly easily get 90% res to all and 45% def to all except tox/psi, regardless of 2ndary, in approximately decreasing order of ease:

• Stone - with or without granite, and it caps its own HP.
• Shield - cycle melee core/owts/rune.
• WP - cycle melee core/sow/rune. Unlike shield it has crap DDR so against certain enemy groups (ahem eyeballs) you will lose all the def, but it compensates with absurd hps.
• SR - provided you are comfortable with using the low hp% scaling res mechanic.

 

Sets that are a little short, can only do it with specific 2ndaries (usually staff or MA), only under certain circumstances (eg 2-3 stacks of ATIO1 proc), or only by going all-in on turtling, in approximately decreasing order of ease:

• Invuln - it is very close, though, likely close enough not to matter, and it self-caps HP which neither shield or WP do.
• Dark, rad, fire, elec, the resist sets - take MA and use storm kick. Lack of DDR means that against many actually dangerous enemies, the increase in survivability is questionable.
• Ice - no +res T9 on tankers (instead it phases you) and the non-cold res is too low across the board.
• Bio - the non-SL res is too low, and usually you want to run offensive adaptation. Max def/res is not the optimal way to build bio, in any case; you want to leverage the absorb mechanic for all it's worth.

 

On 10/22/2024 at 1:53 AM, ApollyonJones said:

And, would these sets be just as good for a brute?

 

Define good.

 

But to answer the implied question, most non-stone brutes will pay through the nose in build capacity to get 90% res and 45% def, and it is usually not optimal for them to try. Brutes are far worse at building for res than tankers and only slightly better at building for SL def, and start off with lower numbers across the board, which hampers their ability to cap both def and res simultaneously.

 

On 10/22/2024 at 3:34 AM, ApollyonJones said:

I mean, I want to main-tank Hamidon.

 

Hami ignores def and res, and the core and mitos inflict -heal -regen. There is lots of support and buffs flying around in a hami raid, so anything your powersets or build can bring to the table is irrelevant. All you need is taunt, KB resist, and a raid leader that will let you do it (ask).

 

On 10/22/2024 at 3:34 AM, ApollyonJones said:

But I want to be useful for anything else, too.  And there's nothing sadder than a tank that can't stay alive, followed closely by a tank that depends so strongly on defender support that he has to be constantly baby-sat.

 

If you want to tank the really tough AV's for long periods without support, you should lean to the sets with click heals/absorbs, like dark or rad, since they are much better at self-sustain. For the really tough content, you want to pay attention to debuff resistance, because what typically kills IO tankers is not raw damage but debuffs. You also want good damage output, which not only makes you valuable even when there are other tankers present or when meat shields are not required, but further increases survivability by killing off dangerous enemies, shortening challenging encounters, and reducing incoming dps. Finally, leverage other tools like knockdowns, absorb procs, debuffs and controls wherever possible instead of relying only on mitigation. Heavily layered, multifaceted defenses backed up by strong offensive power will help you be successful and valuable in any situation.

 

Loading up on def/res helps protect against player error, but most of the game is designed not to require 90% res/45% def, and in the remainder ally buffs (especially +def buffs) are so omnipresent and potent they trivialize any differences between armor sets or even IO builds. As a modicum of logic would reveal, the kind of incoming dps that requires 90% res/45% def would make the content prohibitively difficult for teams without a tanker, and requiring specific AT's is not how coh is designed. Instead, the way the game challenges armored toons is typically through debuffs, special mechanics, and irresistible/autohit damage, so once you have a sufficient amount of mitigation, you want to branch out and cover the less obvious bases.

 

On 10/22/2024 at 3:34 AM, ApollyonJones said:

I want to be as death-proof as possible, in as many situations as possible.

 

Then you'll need to prioritize slotting for knowledge and situational awareness. Maxing out the former makes you immune to any enemy or hazard, while the latter will allow you to identify and appropriately react to any situation. You should also not neglect your experience (not xp); unfortunately experience can only be increased by dying when you don't want to, not by slotting, but the good news is this stat has the property of never decreasing, only increasing, and there is no hardcap on it. Taking the social skills power pool is extremely helpful, especially the powers 'summon allies', 'accept criticism', and 'improved communication'.

 

Sadly, none of the above are available from any IO one can buy on the AH, so you're on your own!

 

 

 

[Maelwys]

On 10/21/2024 at 6:53 PM, ApollyonJones said:

I do the S/L and fire farms at +4/8 and my hit point bar almost never blinks.

...
And, would these sets be just as good for a brute?

@Zect's post above covered most of the bases, but to touch on this:

If your yardstick of performance is AE farming, then most Brutes will perform worse than Tankers.
+ Tankers will deal more AoE damage in nearly every case (other than an AFK Fiery Aura + Spines build that leans on "Burn" and "Quills" and certain Brimstone Proc setups)
+ Tankers will find it far easier to hit the Defence and Resistance caps due to their higher base buff values and their +Res Proc ATO.
+ Tankers will have greater HP and Regeneration and Absorb numbers due to their Higher base HP and HP cap.

That said, you can certainly make a Brute that can "tank" and do so well; and they'll generally still be a bit better at Single Target damage output than an equivalent Tanker even allowing for the additional build compromises (you are going to have to choose more powers and set bonuses that enhance your survivability than the equivalent Tanker). However you'll need to choose your goals carefully and not try to get everything all at once.
90% Res to 2+ types, plus >45% Defense to 1-2 types or a single positional? That's doable on many combos, throw in some on-demand heals/regen/absorb + you're good to go.

90% Res and >45% Def to everything? Not happening unless you leverage a very specific combo (like Storm Kick + Granite Form) and want a rather pointless one trick pony.

Regarding Tankers... I will say that I've played an awful lot of tanking toons over the years and currently the one that I'll reach for 99% of the time is my Bio/Staff Tanker. Whilst they may not be resistance hardcapped to everything (although they'll comfortably reach it to S/L, are just a hair shy of it on Toxic and the rest can get there with a single orange insp from Luna) nor do they have any inherent Defense Debuff Resistance... they have so much Defense and Absorb and Regen that it rarely matters; and anything within 15ft of them gets absolutely blended. About the only things that can drop them are sufficiently high quantities of stacking autohit -MaxHP debuffs (and even then they've to cut through ~1875 Absorb) or sufficient incoming -Recharge debuffs to stop them activating their multiple clickyheals and Guarded Spin (despite their considerable recharge debuff resistance and FF +Recharge Procs).

TL;DR: Don't build a full brick. Build half a brick, put it in a sock and WHACK things with it.
 

Edited November 11 by Maelwys

[Sanguinesun]

On 10/22/2024 at 2:53 AM, ApollyonJones said:

I apologize if this question has been covered before, but I looked for quite a while without finding it.

 

I'm a fairly n00bish player who has been gone for several years.  I just finished leveling and slotting a non-granite stone/fire tank (he's awesome) and as I have begun incarnating him, I have been pleased to find almost all of his resistances and defenses capped (toxic defense and psychic resistance still lacking, but oh, well).  To be completely accurate: most of the resistances are around 10% below the cap, but I hit the Hybrid Melee incarnate toggle and they all smash hard into that 90%, and that's good enough for me.  I do the S/L and fire farms at +4/8 and my hit point bar almost never blinks.

 

I know many tanker sets are great but are so strongly focused on resist OR defense that capping both is not really feasible.

 

So, I'm asking you all-wise posters and lurkers: which other sets can be maxed for both resist and defense, or at least maxed in most of the important categories: S/L, energy, all the common stuff?  And, if you could rank them by how WELL they cap both sides, how would you do so?  And, would these sets be just as good for a brute?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

1. Different tanks have different performances with different contexts.  This can have a bearing on answers that some have touched upon.  There is categorically no tank combination that is a do-all.  This is why answers and justifications will vary.   So think more readily on and in context to your goals and then make a tank built for those specific goals.    League, 4stars, farming etc all can have different variations that are more optimal with specific Prim/Sec, IO sets, incarn choices and more.

 

2. There's a soft cap for defense but it can go super high beyond the soft cap and I think you know that already.   To this end, I've seen discussion by the 4 star ITF croud who run toons on their team where the caps on resistances are hit and then the team as a whole is designed with helping to ensure every member on the team has adequate defenses as they do their dances with mobs. One of their tanks in the past they used was a Rad/Ice for example due again to the make up of their group (rad is one of the easier to actually 90% cap in everything except cold).  So again point 1's context with goals applies.  

 

 -------------

 

As for farming, people have already mentioned as well and discussed in various threads including the guide's section one for building farmers/maps, but overall in a min/max consideration for farming infl per hour, Tank builds have the higher propensity for that since the changes (going 3 years ago now?... cant remember).  Many of the tank AoE's now hit 16 targets vs that of 10 max for brutes. So while Tanks(after the damage buff) are still slightly under that of brutes in their optimal fury conditions, hitting 6 more mobs has the math favor them.

 

But it sounds like you're trying as I mentioned to make a do-it-all tank which really is a pit people tend to fall into when trying to make tanks sadly.  Though you can farm of course with a tank focusing on most all caps, decent defense etc, (non tanks/brutes farm too, just with much less optimal clear times of course) shooting for a do-it-all is less optimal,  jack of all trades master of none if you will because you're going to sacrifice damage and other things in the process.

[Without_Pause]

IMO, the best armor for a Brute to farm is also the weakest for a Tanker to use outside of farming.