Make Red side newspaper missions optional

[gameboy1234]

We were talking in chat and someone mentioned something I agree with a lot. So here we go.  The newspaper missions that you must do red side to get a contact are really annoying and padding out content.  It's an old design that really isn't relevant, or needed, or fun.

 

Instead make the newspapers optional, like blue side.  When you talk to a broker, you should get the newspaper spiel, and also offered a contact to work with.  Talk to the broker again and get another contact.  Yes I'd like two options right off the bat.

 

Of course we should still be able to do newspaper missions and mayhem missions if we want to.  But right now they're forced on you and that feels bad.  Find Contact can help by-pass that but still isn't ideal.

 

[Communistpenguin]

I definitely agree. Outleveling content is bad enough on blue side, it is much worse re side. 

[gameboy1234]

I started a new Dom w/ Illusion Control on red side to play though arcs.  It's shocking how much superior invisibility improves newspaper missions.  Just ghost them and skip them, it's so much better to not have to actually "play" through what is obviously padding and filler.  It's what really convinced me that forcing newspapers are a bad idea.

 

[SaxyGuitar]

You can use "find contact." Some contact will just let you talk to them and start doing missions, too.

 

But I understand if that doesn't feel natrural.

[Doc_Scorpion]

4 hours ago, Communistpenguin said:

Outleveling content is bad enough on blue side, it is much worse re side. 

The XP lock exists.  It's actually difficult to impossible to outlevel content if you remember to use it.

[Oubliette_Red]

 

22 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

On 1/16/2025 at 7:14 AM, Communistpenguin said:

I definitely agree. Outleveling content is bad enough on blue side, it is much worse re side. 

The XP lock exists.  It's actually difficult to impossible to outlevel content if you remember to use it.

 

Goldside is even worse, that's why I add a macro to my toolbar on most of my characters.

/macro_image "DayJob_XPBoost" "XP Toggle" "option_toggle noxp"

 

This gives me a nice, little toggle for turning XP off/on rather than going to Options or using a command every time.

 

Edited Friday at 04:24 PM by Oubliette_Red
Words are hard -.-

[Doc_Scorpion]

2 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Goldside is even worse

And Goldside was bad enough back on live, when we didn't live in a permanent quadruple XP situation...  (And that's before the free boosts!)

I might steal that macro though, it could be handy.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

it's so much better to not have to actually "play" through what is obviously padding and filler. 

Just to be clear, you do know that radios and newspapers were added specifically to give players repeatable missions to help them level between contacts and weren't part of the game at launch, yes? (Edit: They also point players to contacts they may not know about because of how the contact system works.) (Edit again: With papers and radios, and the Safeguards and Mayhems they lead to, players were given an alternate means of leveling without having to go through the same contacts. So there aren't any stories in them, just repeatables with randomly filled in enemies from a level specific pool to give players some variety.)

 

Edited Thursday at 06:28 PM by Rudra

[Oubliette_Red]

7 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

And Goldside was bad enough back on live, when we didn't live in a permanent quadruple XP situation...  (And that's before the free boosts!)

I might steal that macro though, it could be handy.

 

I used it heavily on my Praetorian that did an All-faction run, took 42 hours of game play.

[Doc_Scorpion]

36 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Just to be clear, you do know that radios and newspapers were added specifically to give players repeatable missions to help them level between contacts and weren't part of the game at launch, yes?

That's because back on Live, running out of contacts was a thing that happened.  You could, and people did, hit a point where they'd completed the contacts at a given level and needed a way to keep leveling to gain access to the next range of contacts.  Repeatables were introduced as a way to bridge that gap, to provide an alternative to street sweeping, and (prior to Issue 16 and Super Sidekicking) an alternative that reduced or eliminated the need to play Mentor Tetris.  (Mentor Tetris was a MASSIVE PITA, and nobody I knew mourned it's demise.)

While Newspapers and Radios still fill a role in introducing contacts...  The need to provide a source of additional XP and/or to reduce/eliminate the frustrations of Mentor Tetris is now obsolete.  The problem we have today isn't having to find a way to level to reach contacts, it's that it's so easy to outlevel contacts.

So, I can kind of see the OP's point.  A more organic way of finding contacts (basically moving Find Contact into something the character does naturally) would be welcome to certain playstyles.

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

That's because back on Live, running out of contacts was a thing that happened.  You could, and people did, hit a point where they'd completed the contacts at a given level and needed a way to keep leveling to gain access to the next range of contacts.  Repeatables were introduced as a way to bridge that gap, to provide an alternative to street sweeping, and (prior to Issue 16 and Super Sidekicking) an alternative that reduced or eliminated the need to play Mentor Tetris.  (Mentor Tetris was a MASSIVE PITA, and nobody I knew mourned it's demise.)

While Newspapers and Radios still fill a role in introducing contacts...  The need to provide a source of additional XP and/or to reduce/eliminate the frustrations of Mentor Tetris is now obsolete.  The problem we have today isn't having to find a way to level to reach contacts, it's that it's so easy to outlevel contacts.

So, I can kind of see the OP's point.  A more organic way of finding contacts (basically moving Find Contact into something the character does naturally) would be welcome to certain playstyles.

That's not the point of my comment. I am not arguing against anything here. The sole point of my comment was to respond to the "obviously padding and filler" part of the comment I quoted. That comment led me to wondering if the author understood that the purpose of radios and newspapers in the game was to be optional padding and filler.

[Doc_Scorpion]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The sole point of my comment was to respond to the "obviously padding and filler" part of the comment I quoted.

The sole point of my comment was to expand and clarify yours as it lead into my position on the proposal.

[TheMoneyMaker]

Do people really feel they need to squeeze in all the content on each character? You have 1000 character slots. Look for those missed contacts and content with alternate characters instead of trying to make each character living an over-full life.

[megaericzero]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

The sole point of my comment was to respond to the "obviously padding and filler" part of the comment I quoted. That comment led me to wondering if the author understood that the purpose of radios and newspapers in the game was to be optional padding and filler.

I can't speak on gameboy's behalf but I believe it's based on COV's contact system at launch, features of which are still in place today. In contrast to heroes' contacts which fluidly introduce one another and upwards as you continue to level, you had to do paper missions to be introduced to new contacts each time you entered a new zone's level range - and each of those contacts only have a strict A-B relationship with another specific contact in the zone. This was in tandem with the fact that red contacts have less non-arc/badge filler missions, which are replaced by doing the paper missions.

Edited Thursday at 09:44 PM by megaericzero

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

I can't speak on gameboy's behalf but I believe it's based on COV's contact system at launch, features of which are still in place today. In contrast to heroes' contacts which fluidly introduce one another and upwards as you continue to level, you had to do paper missions to be introduced to new contacts each time you entered a new zone's level range - and each of those contacts only have a strict A-B relationship with another specific contact in the zone. This was in tandem with the fact that red contacts have less non-arc/badge filler missions, which are replaced by doing the paper missions.

That's fair. And there are multiple contacts like Billy Heck who won't talk to you at all unless a broker introduces you, but again, I'm not arguing against @gameboy1234's post.

[FupDup]

7 hours ago, SaxyGuitar said:

You can use "find contact." Some contact will just let you talk to them and start doing missions, too.

 

But I understand if that doesn't feel natrural.

The issue is that redside has a lot of broker-gated contacts, which really cuts into the variety you can pick from if you don't go the paper route. 

 

I think a lot of them should just be opened up like the hero ones. There's a few special contacts like Veridian and such that have special badges/unlock conditions and those make sense to be exclusive, but more generic and mundane contacts really don't need that extra gate. 

[gameboy1234]

7 hours ago, megaericzero said:

you had to do paper missions to be introduced to new contacts each time you entered a new zone's level range - and each of those contacts only have a strict A-B relationship with another specific contact in the zone.

 

6 hours ago, FupDup said:

The issue is that redside has a lot of broker-gated contacts, which really cuts into the variety you can pick from if you don't go the paper route. 

 

Yes, more or less this was my whole point.  The gating system that Newspapers provides just isn't needed, or fun.  Random missions are fun enough if you've completely run out of contacts, or just are in the mood for mindless fun.  But they shouldn't be required to get to the story arcs.  With higher XP rates it's actually tough to pick up more than an arc or two before you out level everything.

 

 

6 hours ago, FupDup said:

I think a lot of them should just be opened up like the hero ones. There's a few special contacts like Veridian and such that have special badges/unlock conditions and those make sense to be exclusive, but more generic and mundane contacts really don't need that extra gate. 

 

Yup, this would be the best solution.  Just open up all except the specially gated ones right away.  It's fine for a contact to introduce another contact, but we shouldn't be required to do the newspapers to start off with a new contact.  I think you can just walk up to a lot of the contacts, but you have to know where they are, and new players (and sometimes old players) don't know that.  Discoverability is pretty poor in this game, so having a marker and a broker to tell you "go here" would actually be useful.  Blue side new contacts often just pop up, brokers serve the same idea red side.

 

I'm still also focusing on actual play experience, rather than theory crafting.  Superior Invisibility = red side fun.  I think that observation ought to lead to changes.

 

[gameboy1234]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

newspapers were added specifically to give players repeatable missions to help them level between contacts and weren't part of the game at launch, yes?

 

I'm pretty sure newspapers were part of CoV at its launch.  They're too heavily integrated into the missions not to be.

 

Radio mishes I honestly don't remember when they got added.  I can't actually recall if it was late beta, early afterwards or later.

 

[Rudra]

35 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

I'm pretty sure newspapers were part of CoV at its launch.  They're too heavily integrated into the missions not to be.

 

Radio mishes I honestly don't remember when they got added.  I can't actually recall if it was late beta, early afterwards or later.

 

While I don't remember when relative to CoV launch newspapers became a thing, maybe it was at launch, I don't remember, I do remember that radios were not a late beta or early after launch addition to CoH. I'm pretty sure radios/newspapers were added to the game after CoV launched, but I'm only really sure about radios being added later.

[Doc_Scorpion]

42 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

With higher XP rates it's actually tough to pick up more than an arc or two before you out level everything.

As I pointed out above, the XP lock exists.

 

38 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

Radio mishes I honestly don't remember when they got added.  I can't actually recall if it was late beta, early afterwards or later.

According to the HC Wiki, radio missions were added in Issue 8.

[Greycat]

11 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

I'm pretty sure newspapers were part of CoV at its launch.  They're too heavily integrated into the missions not to be.

 

 

 

Yeah. I'm fairly sure that, outside of Mercy, it was "New zone = new broker, who wanted you to do paper missions until you did a... rep mission? heist? ... then you got a new contact." And that was retrofitted into radio missions blueside (and were *really* bad in beta before they flipped the way the safeguard timer works around - redside, you built up time doing side missions 'til you felt like robbing the bank and had built up time, and ... I dont' recall the issue, probably that the bank would get robbed while you were doing a side mission, but it ended up nearly unworkable doing a direct copy-paste blueside 'til they had you rush the bank, THEN get extra time doing side missions after.)

[srmalloy]

22 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Goldside is even worse, that's why I add a macro to my toolbar on most of my characters.

Goldside also has the entertaining 'feature' that you can c*ckblock yourself if you're playing a mole character (loyalist and undercover as resistance, or resistance and undercover as loyalist), where if you do missions in the wrong order, you can eliminate a contact before they pass you to the following contact in the series, choking off your progress.

[megaericzero]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

Yeah. I'm fairly sure that, outside of Mercy, it was "New zone = new broker, who wanted you to do paper missions until you did a... rep mission? heist? ... then you got a new contact."

Yup. Papers were part of COV at launch, starting in Port Oakes. Mayhems didn't exist until the following issue, so when the paper bar filled up you got a generic heist on a tiny mission map to complete so that the broker would introduce you to someone. Those poor speakeasies were getting robbed every five minutes...