Never admit to being a Marketeer in game...

[SomeGuy]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

Why would you allow anyone the opportunity to get an item substantially cheaper than what YOU would have to pay for it if you needed it? Is it really just laziness? Or is it boredom? Something else maybe.  

 

Close. In the grand scheme of things for how I play? I don't care. If someone gets a 500k piece of salvage for 5inf (which has never happened to me)? They win. Good. I hate market PVP anyways. I literally GAVE away 100s of billions of inf on live because of it. This isn't even real money. I don't care.

Edited August 31 by SomeGuy

[tidge]

"last 5 items" database issue

 

EDIT: I suppose it is possible that some items get quick-listed for 1 Inf, but usually when I see multiple winning bids for relatively low amounts... I believe display bug before someone being ultra-casual about listing useful pieces. It has happened before, when players rage-quit over reward changes... but it hasn't appeared to be common.

Edited September 1 by tidge

[Hedgefund]

The "display bug" has been fixed for quite some time, coming up on years now.

 

As for players yoinking low ask prices with lowball bids, although I'm not active in the market sometimes I see something too good to pass up and I'll nab a few pieces at the low prices, so yes, people can grab desirable items at low prices, regardless of belief.

[Triumphant]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

"last 5 items" database issue

 

EDIT: I suppose it is possible that some items get quick-listed for 1 Inf, but usually when I see multiple winning bids for relatively low amounts... I believe display bug before someone being ultra-casual about listing useful pieces. It has happened before, when players rage-quit over reward changes... but it hasn't appeared to be common.

 

I've never seen anything show in the list as for sale for 1 inf, but I sell everything from white salvage to purple enhancements at 1 influence each.  Maybe sometimes things actually do sell for 1 influence?  I've never had that happen, but I suppose it might be the case. 

If it is the case, whether that's by design or a bug, I have no idea. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

25 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

 

I've never seen anything show in the list as for sale for 1 inf, but I sell everything from white salvage to purple enhancements at 1 influence each.  Maybe sometimes things actually do sell for 1 influence?  I've never had that happen, but I suppose it might be the case. 

If it is the case, whether that's by design or a bug, I have no idea. 

 

Things do indeed sell for 1inf, but not often.  Since 1 is the minimum offer, you will automatically sell to any outstanding bid (which by definition has to be greater than zero) as soon as you post it.  The only way you will actually sell something at 1 is if:  1. 1 inf is the highest outstanding bid when you make your offer; 2. there are no outstanding bids at all, you make your listing at 1 (and this is the only time you will actually see in your /AH an outstanding item listed at 1), and the next bidder to enter the system puts in their bid at 1.

 

Generally, I list/bid at 5 inf out of habit.

[UltraAlt]

8 hours ago, Triumphant said:

I've never seen anything show in the list as for sale for 1 inf, but I sell everything from white salvage to purple enhancements at 1 influence each.  

 

I sell my white and yellow salvage, all non-set IO recipes, and all set IO recipes for sets that I don't feel sell well at 1 influence.

 

8 hours ago, Triumphant said:

Maybe sometimes things actually do sell for 1 influence?  I've never had that happen, but I suppose it might be the case. 

 

@Yomo Kimyata is correct. If you post at 1, any outstanding bid will buy it with the highest bid being filled first. If you post at 1 and there are no bids, the next bid that is placed for the item - regardless of the amount - will automatically purchase the item.

I would say it is more likely that you will sell at 1 on an item that has outstanding bids than you are to on an item with no bids listed. I don't think most players are going to bother bidding at 1 unless they see that past bids have gone through at 1.

 

I'm not sure of your intent/goal in order to insure that people buy your white salvage to purple enhancements for 1 influence each.

 

If you really want to gain the lowest amount possible for your sales, let me suggest something else instead.

Most players do not set their characters up so that they don't accept random trades. Simply walk up to a character, and pull the item from your tray/window and drop it on their character. And, yeah, that works pretty much 99% of the time.

You can always case-the-joint by checking out the targets level, origin, power sets, etc. of a character before performing the Ebil Marketing tactic of targeted reallocation. This way you can give your SO's to those with the correct level and origin to use them or still need to level up in order to use them. You can give them enhancements or recipes that will be useful in slotting their power sets. 

I think you get the idea.

 

 

[Triumphant]

Quote

I'm not sure of your intent/goal in order to insure that people buy your white salvage to purple enhancements for 1 influence each.

 

My goal isn't really to get as little as possible for my sales.  It's just to simplify and expedite the process, so I spend as little time as possible doing the selling of it.  The only reason I sell things is to get enough influence to outfit any characters I want to equip.  I get many of millions of influence for selling my good stuff at 1 inf, which allows me to outfit my toons, so I don't need to spend time setting the price (or converting, flipping, and selling, or anything else.  Although, I do farm occasionally.  I don't mind doing that so much.  At least I'm playing the game after a fashion, when I'm doing it).

 

I do also sometimes sell things at 11 or 111 influence, by accident, if my "1" key sticks on my keyboard (which it occasionally does).

 

 

[tidge]

11 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I'm not sure of your intent/goal in order to insure that people buy your white salvage to purple enhancements for 1 influence each.

 

There are badges for selling items. I routinely dump white/yellow salvage on the AH just to clear out my inventory while I'm flying between points. Some of my characters have a LOT of AH storage/bid space filled with items, and the price difference between vendoring salvage and posting on the AH is dust.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

There are badges for selling items. I routinely dump white/yellow salvage on the AH just to clear out my inventory while I'm flying between points. Some of my characters have a LOT of AH storage/bid space filled with items, and the price difference between vendoring salvage and posting on the AH is dust.

 

13 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I sell my white and yellow salvage, all non-set IO recipes, and all set IO recipes for sets that I don't feel sell well at 1 influence.

 

I actually sell the white and yellow cheap for the community. I know someone else will buy it if not one of my alts.

 

I do some "Robin Hood"ing from time to time, but only with certain characters.

 

2 hours ago, tidge said:

Some of my characters have a LOT of AH storage/bid space filled with items

 

I don't really "store" in my bid space. But I usually do put enough bids out for the oranges that the character will need for the next round of crafting. Sometimes I end up having to do this with yellows, but not often.

 

I pretty much can buy what I need on the /ah at prices that I expect other players to pay (which can sometimes mean that I'm buying whatever from one of my other characters) or use merits from card packs to the enhancements I need without infl.

 

I stop putting any salvage other then one bin worth of holiday stuff and some unslotters for other people in one SG base with the most players in.

 

I stopped putting all but the essential enhancements (one that pretty much every character usually slots regardless of Archetype and power sets) in base storage.

 

I do have one base that just is for the winter lord pack enhances, but after opening a large number and nearly filling the base it turns out that I tend only use one set and only use one or 3 of them from that set. Since I'm a character conception player, I only slot them in ice/cold themed characters and I only have so many of those.

 

I was mainly asking poster because they were wondering if anything sold at 1 inf.

[The Witchfire]

A ton of replies here already. Let's see if I can put my thoughts together here...

 

I guess I wouldn't have any problem with marketeers IF it was straight buying and selling; pure capitalism with morals as opposed to market manipulation.

 

"Flipping" being the easiest example there.  Reading some of the early replies, some folks have strange definitions of it also.  The straight real world definition is buying something at a low price and turning around selling it at a higher price.  THAT by it's very definition is inflation.

 

As a side note, yes, the money that farmers flood into the economy is also a factor, probably a bigger one, but we're talking about maniulating the market for insane profits here.  The OP bragged about being able to make 200 milion influence an hour.

 

Geting back to flipping...  It may seem like a harmless game if you're already in the elite, super rich crowd of veteran players.  It makes it extremely difficult for casual and new players to get up to speed though.  WoW at it's peak was a great example.  Level 5 basic gear going for millions of gold.   Why?  The long term veterans could afford it and didn't care.  During my brief time in that game, I tried to sell the same lowbie gear at reasonable prices only to hve flippers buy and immediately repost it for 1000x more.  Star Trek's introduction of the Ferengi and The Wolf of Wall Street were supposed to serve as warnings against predatory capitalism, not endorsements.

 

Before anybody says I should have marked up the stuff the same way, let's be real. The veterans that MIGHT buy stuff at that level were PLing their alts with their friends / guilds, outleveled the gear instantly and didn't even need OR BUY it.  I watched that same stuff sit there for weeks on end. Cornering the market was strictly about ego gratification and shutting out new players.  Is THAT what we want COH to turn into?

 

Games die when the player base squeezes new and casuals out of the game.

 

As far as the slow deflation goes... Increasing the supply of purple drops, Hami Enhancements, etc... is the only realistic way to keep the game's economy from spiraling out of control.  Given what the costs on alot of purple set recipes are, I have to wonder how much money is truly enough for some players.

 

 

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, The Witchfire said:

It makes it extremely difficult for casual and new players to get up to speed though.

 

Actually, the players that it affects the most are the ones that "have to have it now".

 

It doesn't make a difference if you are a casual player, because you are probably having more down time and can wait for a bid to fill.

 

New players? How new are they? Have they not played any games with an auction house/market/trading before?

Games have different symptom for this, but more or less the economies have things in common and greater profit can be made through patience in most case and in one way or another.

That is to say, if  new player is already a gamer, they have the basic knowledge they need to approach the economic system of a game ... if "gaming" game economies is something that they have bothered to learn how to do. 

 

That being said. It seems many want instant gratification.

And that need for instant gratification is what gives profit to the those that can/do wait.

 

1 hour ago, The Witchfire said:

I guess I wouldn't have any problem with marketeers IF it was straight buying and selling; pure capitalism with morals as opposed to market manipulation.

 

Then you should really be upset about the people that are manipulating the market to make very useful set IO sell for a price lower than the crafting cost.

I mean, they are taking a loss which is anti-capitalism and they are manipulating the market.

 

1 hour ago, The Witchfire said:

WoW at it's peak was a great example.  Level 5 basic gear going for millions of gold.   Why?  The long term veterans could afford it and didn't care.  During my brief time in that game, I tried to sell the same lowbie gear at reasonable prices only to hve flippers buy and immediately repost it for 1000x more.

 

I honestly went through the same thought process ... probably more than once. Once before the Sunset, and again when I started building up my inf here in Homecoming.

 

Sounds like you were feeding the market and the market was selling at the price that players were willing to pay.

If players are willing to pay at a high price, someone is going to make the profit. You choosing not to profit is your choice.

If players are not willing to pay at high price, then the price will drop to a level that players are willing to pay.

 

Many players are impatient and will play higher prices to have it now.

The players that are "working" the market are going to be willing to wait when both selling and buying ... and even crafting when it comes down to it.

 

1 hour ago, The Witchfire said:

Is THAT what we want COH to turn into?

 

The /AH has been much more sane here than it was a year before the Sunset.

 

You can't raise the prices on training, DO's or SOs. You can only lower the cost. That is the "lowbie gear" in CoH.

 

If you are talking about this in the perspective of new players starting out by making level 50's and not having the infl to OP them out ... well ...

New players should be playing the game instead of rushing to the end-game - in my opinion.

You can pay over time as your character levels, or you can rush ahead have to pay the price all at once.

 

If you "want it now", then, yeah, you are going to have to pay the price.

 

1 hour ago, The Witchfire said:

Games die when the player base squeezes new and casuals out of the game.

 

Guess what?

CoH has a core player-base that isn't going anywhere for a long time.

This game isn't subscription based.

More players want to donate every month than the limit on donations allow. It usually reaches the cap within a couple of hours at the most.

The only time I was able to donate was when there was a slow donation month and that must have been 3 years ago at least ... maybe as far back as during COVID?

 

And WoW seems to be doing fine even with the economy running the way that you claim it to be.

 

1 hour ago, The Witchfire said:

As far as the slow deflation goes... Increasing the supply of purple drops, Hami Enhancements, etc... is the only realistic way to keep the game's economy from spiraling out of control.  Given what the costs on alot of purple set recipes are, I have to wonder how much money is truly enough for some players.

 

And there you go proving my point.

Talking about the end-game.

 

If you have to have the best of everything, you have to pay for the best of everything.

You do not have to have the best of everything in order to enjoy playing CoH. The game was built around characters having TO's, DO's, and SO's.

You don't have to jump ahead to the end-game and grind. The end-game and the grind are here to keep players busy once they have finished playing the actual game and don't want to create alts. Alts are there for game replayability.

 

The drive to just "power-level/farm to 50" hit overdrive-mode when the AE came out and the game went F2P.

New players weren't playing the game. They just went to the AE in Atlas and "power-level/farm to 50". Some left because the game was so lame because there was only one zone and the enemies in the city were so low ... because they didn't even know that there were other zones in the game. Level 50's were joining teams when they had no enhancements slotted at all.

 

Who's fault was that?

The DEVs for not doing what they said they would to do accounts that used the AE for power-leveling.

The DEVs for not curbing powerleveling more when they easily could have.

The DEVs leaning on end-game development to keep the end-gamers happy.

The DEVs for creating Ouroboros so that end-game characters could go back and replay lower level content instead of players needing to create an alt in order to explore alternate leveling content by playing through the game again.

The players that were willing to spend real world money for infl from gold-farmers. 

The players that didn't want to actually play the game and only wanted to "beat the game" by having an end-game character(s).

And, of course, players telling new players that the only fun in CoH is in the end-game so they should power-level/door sit their characters to 50.

 

[tidge]

7 hours ago, The Witchfire said:

As far as the slow deflation goes... Increasing the supply of purple drops, Hami Enhancements, etc... is the only realistic way to keep the game's economy from spiraling out of control.  Given what the costs on alot of purple set recipes are, I have to wonder how much money is truly enough for some players.

 

The game offers alternative ways (via merit purchases) for every enhancement (or recipe... including purple sets) except the HO/DO/Titans/whatever.  The AH makes almost everything fungible, All these keep the game's economy from 'spiraling out of control'. The game's market has been incredibly stable (and somewhat deflationary) for six years.

[Andreah]

7 hours ago, The Witchfire said:

A ton of replies here already. Let's see if I can put my thoughts together here...

 

I guess I wouldn't have any problem with marketeers IF it was straight buying and selling; pure capitalism with morals as opposed to market manipulation.

 

"Flipping" being the easiest example there.  Reading some of the early replies, some folks have strange definitions of it also.  The straight real world definition is buying something at a low price and turning around selling it at a higher price.  THAT by it's very definition is inflation.

 

As a side note, yes, the money that farmers flood into the economy is also a factor, probably a bigger one, but we're talking about maniulating the market for insane profits here.  The OP bragged about being able to make 200 milion influence an hour.

 

Geting back to flipping...  It may seem like a harmless game if you're already in the elite, super rich crowd of veteran players.  It makes it extremely difficult for casual and new players to get up to speed though.  WoW at it's peak was a great example.  Level 5 basic gear going for millions of gold.   Why?  The long term veterans could afford it and didn't care.  During my brief time in that game, I tried to sell the same lowbie gear at reasonable prices only to hve flippers buy and immediately repost it for 1000x more.  Star Trek's introduction of the Ferengi and The Wolf of Wall Street were supposed to serve as warnings against predatory capitalism, not endorsements.

 

Before anybody says I should have marked up the stuff the same way, let's be real. The veterans that MIGHT buy stuff at that level were PLing their alts with their friends / guilds, outleveled the gear instantly and didn't even need OR BUY it.  I watched that same stuff sit there for weeks on end. Cornering the market was strictly about ego gratification and shutting out new players.  Is THAT what we want COH to turn into?

 

Games die when the player base squeezes new and casuals out of the game.

 

As far as the slow deflation goes... Increasing the supply of purple drops, Hami Enhancements, etc... is the only realistic way to keep the game's economy from spiraling out of control.  Given what the costs on alot of purple set recipes are, I have to wonder how much money is truly enough for some players.

 

 

You're completely wrong.

[The Trouble]

10 hours ago, The Witchfire said:

As a side note, yes, the money that farmers flood into the economy is also a factor, probably a bigger one, but we're talking about maniulating the market for insane profits here.  The OP bragged about being able to make 200 milion influence an hour.

Here's the EVIL MANIPULATION I was using to make that 200m in an hour:  I listed a large quantity of extremely high-demand enhancements for pennies.

 

I'm not the reason you're spending 4m+ on that Luck of the Gambler. I'm the reason you can get one for $1m.

[Yomo Kimyata]

56 minutes ago, The Trouble said:

I'm the reason you can get one for $1m.

 

And I'm the reason you cannot get one for $1mm.  No one can so long as anyone has a bid higher than 1mm.  

 

I find it a little annoying that people still think that because they are listing something at a low price, that somehow magically that gets matched with a low price bidder.  

[The Trouble]

20 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

And I'm the reason you cannot get one for $1mm.  No one can so long as anyone has a bid higher than 1mm.  

 

I find it a little annoying that people still think that because they are listing something at a low price, that somehow magically that gets matched with a low price bidder.  

I certainly don't think that.  Lowest price goes to the highest bidder.  I very deliberately used the word "can" to imply there's a chance.

[Andreah]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I find it a little annoying that people still think that because they are listing something at a low price, that somehow magically that gets matched with a low price bidder.  

I get this impression from people, too. Some will, with some seeming pride, that they list everything low so that less wealthy players can get them. And maybe in some circumstances that happens, but I just don't see it for the great majority. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

50 minutes ago, Andreah said:

with some seeming pride,

 

This is the part that frankly bothers me the most.  It's a combination of lack of knowledge, "othering" those who are playing things differently (and often WITH knowledge), and unjustified self-righteousness.

 

That said, I don't know these people from a hole in the wall, so I'm guilty of "othering" them with, hopefully, justified self-righteousness.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

This is the part that frankly bothers me the most.  It's a combination of lack of knowledge, "othering" those who are playing things differently (and often WITH knowledge), and unjustified self-righteousness.

 

That said, I don't know these people from a hole in the wall, so I'm guilty of "othering" them with, hopefully, justified self-righteousness.

 

Oh.  You're one of those Yomos.