How can Radiation heroes justify using their powers?

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Zombra said:

 

There are many assumptions about the COH world that come from the real world.  The sky is blue, except where something extraordinary is affecting it.  People (usually) have two arms and two legs.  Streets and buildings are laid out in a reasonably familiar way.  While not a perfect replica, Paragon City is built upon the images of real world cities, and our familiarity with the real world gives us some familiarity with the setting.

 

Likewise, if we don't see something on the screen, we assume that things happen "offstage" in a way similar to the real world.  For example, although you never see an NPC eating food, it's reasonable to believe that they do.

 

Yes, outlandish, completely fictional things happen in the setting, and we can see with our eyes what those fictional things are and come to an understanding of how they work.  If we see someone lift a huge axe, we can intuitively understand that physics-defying super strength is a thing here like in comic books.  If we see a Fire Blaster shoot a wall and it doesn't catch on fire, we can intuitively understand that the wall did not catch on fire.  What we can't see is whether invisible fallout from weaponized radiation is contaminating the environment, as it can in the real world.  It's fine if you want to assume all radiation must be benign, and I'm not trying to yuck your yum; but to me, it is not intuitively obvious and again, I don't agree that there is a universal assumption in comic book settings that all radiation is benign.

 

Again - even in comic books, it's not insane to wonder if weaponized radiation has harmful side effects.

 

 

So your argument is basically "suspend belief for all powers except radiation which causes long term ill-effects."

 

Got it!

[High_Beam]

On 4/5/2025 at 2:01 PM, Zombra said:

When a Fire Blaster's Blazing Bolt animation is finished and nothing is burning 3 seconds later, anyone who has ever heard of fire knows that once you no longer see the fire, it is because there is no more fire.  It's intuitively obvious.

I still set a re-flash watch, its the only way to be sure.

[BasiliskXVIII]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

No.  What I'm saying is that you are free to roleplay that your particular character does, in fact, leave behind harmful radiation in their wake.  The default, however, is that the radiation powers utilized by super-powered individuals, (i.e. player characters), do not, (at least not more than the few seconds the debuffing effects last on enemies).  There are areas of the game that do appear to have been ravaged by radiation, toxic waste, or other such contaminants, so those long-term effects certainly exist in-game, but from the powers our characters generally use, not so much...

 

And again, you’re framing this as if it’s just a quirk of the setting or a concession to comic-book logic, when in fact the real world already works this way. Radiation exposure doesn’t make things radioactive—except in very rare, specific conditions like neutron activation. Radioactive contamination happens when radioactive material—not just energy—gets spread around.

So unless your blaster is spewing clouds of Strontium-90 dust or some other uncontained isotope, there’s no reason to assume they're leaving behind persistent contamination. If the power is just high-energy electromagnetic radiation (gamma rays, say), then it's about as likely to cause nuclear fallout as turning on your microwave.

This isn’t special pleading for a fictional setting—it’s just how radiation works.

[DoctorDitko]

1 hour ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

Radioactive contamination happens when radioactive material—not just energy—gets spread around.

Yes! I was coming here to say exactly that, but not as well!

After your dental x-ray, you don't walk around irradiating your co-workers.

 

But the important thing is, the Tick will be back!

[BasiliskXVIII]

11 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

Yes! I was coming here to say exactly that, but not as well!

After your dental x-ray, you don't walk around irradiating your co-workers.

 

But the important thing is, the Tick will be back!

 

I just feel like I've walked into a thread where the premise is "How do people playing super strength characters justify being heroes when they're leaving dangerous pockets of kinetic energy around, waiting to launch people into the sky." And I'm the only one like "that... that's not how any of this works." While everyone's enthusiastically agreeing that, sure this could be a problem, but that you can just ignore that part.

[huang3721]

 

5 hours ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

Radiation exposure doesn’t make things radioactive—except in very rare, specific conditions like neutron activation.

 

I read about criticality accidents, where most of the victims withstand so much radiation before developing radiation sickness days later.

• Bugorski received 76 x 10^9 eV through his head. He claimed to have seen a bright light before resuming work.
• Bill Clark received 165 rem (10.3 x 10^15 eV/gram) and felt nothing.
• Daghlian received 290 rem (18.1 x 10^15 eV/gram) but was lucid enough to disassemble the demon core. 
• Slotin received 880 rem (54.9 x 10^15 eV/gram). He felt a heat wave.
• Ouchi received 1700 rem(106.1 x 10^15 eV/gram). His colleagues found him incapacitated.

( Assuming 1 rem = 100 erg/gram and 1 erg = 6.24 x 10^11 eV)
Compare these incidents with the CoH radiation power set, where a few blasts can knock out its target.

 

Also, I found the threshold of neutron activation is in the range of 10MeV (10^7 eV, give or take. Different materials have different thresholds).

 

I wonder how radiated the soil, air, and waters in the CoH universe, with all those radiation-based supers freely dispensing God-knows-how-much-eV to their surroundings. 

Edited yesterday at 03:50 AM by huang3721
Heh, neuron activation. LOL

[BasiliskXVIII]

7 minutes ago, huang3721 said:

 

 

I read about criticality accidents, where most of the victims withstand so much radiation before developing radiation sickness days later.

• Bugorski received 76 x 10^9 eV through his head. He claimed to have seen a bright light before resuming work.
• Bill Clark received 165 rem (10.3 x 10^15 eV/gram) and felt nothing.
• Daghlian received 290 rem (18.1 x 10^15 eV/gram) but was lucid enough to disassemble the demon core. 
• Slotin received 880 rem (54.9 x 10^15 eV/gram). He felt a heat wave.
• Ouchi received 1700 rem(106.1 x 10^15 eV/gram). His colleagues found him incapacitated.

( Assuming 1 rad = 100 erg/gram and 1 erg = 6.24 x 10^11 eV)
Compare these incidents with the CoH radiation power set, where a few blasts can knock out its target.

 

Also, I found the threshold of neuron activation is in the range of 10MeV (10^7 eV, give or take. Different materials have different thresholds).

 

I wonder how radiated the soil, air, and waters in the CoH universe, with all those radiation-based supers freely dispensing God-knows-how-much-eV to their surroundings. 

Those historical cases are interesting and horrifying—but they don’t contradict the point I’m making. Radiation dose ≠ radioactive contamination. Yes, people can absorb terrifying amounts of energy from radiation and suffer fatal effects. That’s not in dispute. But the original thread premise was about lingering contamination—the idea that a Radiation Blaster is leaving radioactive fallout in their wake. You can deliver hundreds of millions of eV to the soil, air, and water. You'll kill whatever's living in it for sure, and you'll probably vapourize/melt it, but except in very specific circumstances, once it's cooled to the point where it won't harm you, it's not going to be any more dangerous to you than the next patch of soil which wasn't irradiated. In fact, it might be safer, since it's now been sterilized.

 

The victims you mentioned weren't radioactive themselves afterward. They weren’t contaminating the ground they walked on. They absorbed radiation—just like patients in radiotherapy do—but they didn’t emit it after the fact, and they didn’t turn into walking hazmat zones. Radiation isn’t glitter. It doesn’t stick to things and spread by default. If it did, we wouldn’t be able to safely use medical or industrial radiation at all. So yes, radiation is powerful. But that doesn’t mean Rad Blasters are leaving glowing craters everywhere. It just means they hit hard—which, to be fair, is kind of the point of the powerset.

[huang3721]

29 minutes ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

Radiation isn’t glitter. It doesn’t stick to things and spread by default.

 

I am adding more context regarding neutron activation. In real life, the pipes in a nuclear power plant become radioactive after being constantly exposed to high energy neutron flux.

 

The same thing could happen to the soil, air and waters in CoH, due to so many supers constantly throwing radioactive blast so energetic that it can incapacitate a person in a few hits.

 

(In my example, Slotin was hit with lethal dose of ionizing radiation. He simply felt a heat wave and walked out the lab as if nothing happened).

Edited yesterday at 03:52 AM by huang3721
LOL LOL XD

[BasiliskXVIII]

6 minutes ago, huang3721 said:

 

I am adding more context regarding neuron activation. In real life, the pipes in a nuclear power plant become radioactive after being constantly exposed to high energy neuron flux.

 

The same thing could happen to the soil, air and waters in CoH, due to so many supers constantly throwing radioactive blast so energetic that it can incapacitate a person in a few hits.

 

(In my example, Slotin was hit with lethal dose of ionizing radiation. He simply felt a heat wave and walked out the lab as if nothing happened).

 

Neutron radiation is a specific type of radiation caused by free neutrons being emitted, but they are not a necessary element of all radiation. Alpha, beta, gamma, x-rays, radio can all be produced without needing to have a source of neutron radiation accompanying it. And neutron activation is just not going to happen from anything that you'd call a "Radioactive Blast" set. Neutron radiation dissipates too easily in air to be dangerous at long range, and even if we're talking about Radiation Melee or Radiation Armour, it could only happen in extremely precise circumstances:

1. There has to be a significant flux of free neutrons—usually from a sustained nuclear reaction, like inside a reactor or from a bomb. Your average radiation source, including most radioactive decay, doesn't emit enough neutrons to do this.
2. The material being bombarded has to be susceptible—that is, made of elements with nuclei that can absorb neutrons and become unstable. Not every material reacts this way. For example: Cobalt, zinc, and aluminium can become activated fairly easily. Carbon, oxygen, silicon, and many common soil components? Much less so—or not at all under typical conditions. Water, in particular, is highly resistant, which is why it's a popular choice as a coolant.
3. The exposure must last long enough—neutron activation usually requires prolonged bombardment, not just a quick burst or zap. Short-term exposure to neutrons in low or moderate doses won't meaningfully activate most materials.

To put it this way: The Enola Gay was a big aircraft made of aluminium and it dropped a nuclear bomb - a rich source of neutron radiation. Despite all this, it did not become neutron activated. Maybe if there were some drawn-out hour-long fight scene where Captain Neutron Radiation parks himself on top of a field of Tesla Model S cars for the entirety of the fight could neutron activation start to become a concern. But put his buddy Captain Gamma in his place, and that fight can last years and you never have to worry about anything picking up a radioactive charge.

 

Now, I don’t care what you do with your character—if it’s important to you that they turn every place they visit into a glowing radioactive playground, then hey, it’s your story. Have fun with it. I just want to be very clear about what radiation actually is in real life. It’s not a magical, lingering death aura.

[Healix]

This topic reminds me of something that actually happened to me not long ago.....

 

I was walking back to my RV after dumping some cardboard into the recycle bins when I saw a man and woman approaching. They were having a fairly loud argument, but there was no anger. (I didn't know them, but knew they were park residents.)
All of a sudden I heard the woman say,"Let's ask that lady, and hear her opinion."
She called to me, and I stopped to hear her out.

She explained that she and her husband were having a discussion about the play, Peter Pan which was running at the Paramount Theater in Seattle. Her husband said it made no sense that Wendy was played by a black girl, when according to the original story, the Darling family were white Brits. The wife thought it was no big deal, and asked my opinion.

My reply was' "Well, actors 'act', correct? That actress didn't have to act a color, she had to act as Wendy. Perhaps she was picked for the part because she was the best choice after auditioning. The husband chimed in that he was not a bigot, and was pleased that a real Native American portrayed Tiger Lilly. (He said nothing about John, also black, Mrs. Darling, an Indian woman or Peter Pan, a Hispanic teen.) He just said that the play should stick with the 'truth' of the original story, and Roots would never cast a white person as Kunta Kinte.

I stared at him, then said," First of all, Kunta was based on an actual ancestor of Alex Haley in his family history. You want Peter Pan more truthful and accurate? We are talking about A boy who FLIES, NEVER AGES, lives in a land BEYOND A STAR, and has A FAIRY FOR A SIDEKICK...."

He stared back, turned and walked away, because at that moment his wife was in convulsive laughter. She thanked me several times, then walked home, still laughing.

[huang3721]

2 hours ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

Have fun with it. I just want to be very clear about what radiation actually is in real life. It’s not a magical, lingering death aura.

 

Also, in real life, we don't have dozens of supers giving at least 5 Sievert of ionizing radiation to everyone in the neighborhood day and night.

 

I imagine the Joes in the CoH universe have some questions.

• Does enrolling more rad supers increase radiation sickness among the populace?
• How long can someone expose a hideout to radiation shenanigans before it becomes a radioactive death trap?
• What is the radiation level in some neighborhoods during a Rikti/zombie/Troll Rave attack compared to other, less active areas?
• How many radiation-based supers can safely intervene in a hostage crisis before they accidentally microwave everyone alive?
• What is the cancer rate of agents assigned to work with rad supers compared to the general population?

Now where's my notepad?

[UltraAlt]

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

If there is an assumption that the radiation in City of Heroes is harmful, there may also be an assumption that mediporters, Ouroboros and Portal Corp all have ways to remove the harmful effects of radiation, thus making the point entirely moot.

[Jacke]

"Great Scott!!!  Marty, we've gotta go back in time and prevent this long discussion about comic book radioactivity versus radioactivity in reality.  You see what the consequences are in 17 years time!?!"

 

"Doc!  That's horrible!  What were they thinking?!?"

 

"Sometimes it's not obvious what the consequences truly are.  Always in motion the future is."

 

"But what about the danger of unforeseen complications from changing what happened in the past?!?"

 

"Marty, sometimes you've got to try no matter what!  Risk is our business!"

 

"Let's go!  ....  Doc, what are you doing?"

 

"Just getting some extra Plutonium.  I'm sure I've got some in one of these cupboards...."

 

😺

 

 

[Neiska]

4 hours ago, Healix said:

This topic reminds me of something that actually happened to me not long ago.....

 

I was walking back to my RV after dumping some cardboard into the recycle bins when I saw a man and woman approaching. They were having a fairly loud argument, but there was no anger. (I didn't know them, but knew they were park residents.)
All of a sudden I heard the woman say,"Let's ask that lady, and hear her opinion."
She called to me, and I stopped to hear her out.

She explained that she and her husband were having a discussion about the play, Peter Pan which was running at the Paramount Theater in Seattle. Her husband said it made no sense that Wendy was played by a black girl, when according to the original story, the Darling family were white Brits. The wife thought it was no big deal, and asked my opinion.

My reply was' "Well, actors 'act', correct? That actress didn't have to act a color, she had to act as Wendy. Perhaps she was picked for the part because she was the best choice after auditioning. The husband chimed in that he was not a bigot, and was pleased that a real Native American portrayed Tiger Lilly. (He said nothing about John, also black, Mrs. Darling, an Indian woman or Peter Pan, a Hispanic teen.) He just said that the play should stick with the 'truth' of the original story, and Roots would never cast a white person as Kunta Kinte.

I stared at him, then said," First of all, Kunta was based on an actual ancestor of Alex Haley in his family history. You want Peter Pan more truthful and accurate? We are talking about A boy who FLIES, NEVER AGES, lives in a land BEYOND A STAR, and has A FAIRY FOR A SIDEKICK...."

He stared back, turned and walked away, because at that moment his wife was in convulsive laughter. She thanked me several times, then walked home, still laughing.

 

I'm sorry, but did you just compare race to radiation in fictional writing? You don't think that's dropping a GRENADE here? I need a moment.

[Healix]

NO,NO! I was only trying to make the comparison between someone arguing about how a fantasy/fiction character or power should be correctly portrayed!!!!! If it's fiction, it can be whatever...I hope no one else misunderstood my meaning  🥺

[srmalloy]

On 4/5/2025 at 11:01 AM, Zombra said:

When a Fire Blaster's Blazing Bolt animation is finished and nothing is burning 3 seconds later, anyone who has ever heard of fire knows that once you no longer see the fire, it is because there is no more fire.  It's intuitively obvious.

"No, Flambé, we're not accusing you of using excessive force; all we're saying is that the criminals you arrest arrive at the police recovery teleportation point with third- and fourth-degree burns over more than 80% of their bodies."

 

It's not just radiation that has the potential to cause lingering, painful, and traumatic post-combat effects, if you're going to try to jam real-world physics down on top of an essentially 'cartoon' world.

[Neiska]

2 hours ago, Healix said:

NO,NO! I was only trying to make the comparison between someone arguing about how a fantasy/fiction character or power should be correctly portrayed!!!!! If it's fiction, it can be whatever...I hope no one else misunderstood my meaning  🥺

Thank you, I appreciate the clarification.

[Zombra]

22 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So your argument is basically "suspend belief for all powers except radiation which causes long term ill-effects."

 

Got it!

 

Yes. Because radiation is the unique power type that is popularly understood to leave behind invisible death, which is a good reason to use a different standard for suspension of disbelief.  You nailed it buddy!

 

9 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

If there is an assumption that the radiation in City of Heroes is harmful, there may also be an assumption that mediporters, Ouroboros and Portal Corp all have ways to remove the harmful effects of radiation, thus making the point entirely moot.

 

I'm confused but grateful you actually gave a legit answer to the original question.  Not a very satisfying one but good enough.  Thanks 😄

[Zombra]

2 hours ago, srmalloy said:

"No, Flambé, we're not accusing you of using excessive force; all we're saying is that the criminals you arrest arrive at the police recovery teleportation point with third- and fourth-degree burns over more than 80% of their bodies."

 

It's not just radiation that has the potential to cause lingering, painful, and traumatic post-combat effects, if you're going to try to jam real-world physics down on top of an essentially 'cartoon' world.

 

Oh I've never disagreed that using any of COH's power on people could have all kinds of traumatic effects.  Really that's a whole different question and I doubt anyone would argue with you on that.  My concern was about the invisible, longer-term environmental impact that is a concern unique to Radiation type powers.

[Troo]

 

Poppycock

 

I gave a glib response previously.

[MoonSheep]

hmm, on reflection perhaps i shouldn't have used this power to stop a level 2 hellion from stealing someones purse..

[Octogoat]

I guess nows not a good time to mention I made a beam/rad corr whose power is actually disease

Edited 20 hours ago by Octogoat

[Latex]

16 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

If there is an assumption that the radiation in City of Heroes is harmful, there may also be an assumption that mediporters, Ouroboros and Portal Corp all have ways to remove the harmful effects of radiation, thus making the point entirely moot.

The building code in Paragon involves lining residential homes with radiation shielding. It's a comic-book world with comic-book antidotes to powers, barely any NPC citizen is going to have access to the same resources Heroes do. I mean Positrons whole character is someone that cannot find a cure for his powers, he encased himself in his suit to prevent harming others, that's how dangerous radiation is in-universe. He was "cured" (killed and resurrected) after a lengthy arc, but it seems like it was a massive character-drive, the kind of thing you'd shelve a story to move onto the next.

All these things are writing tools the author of a rad hero or villain can come up with their own ideas within the lore and setting of the game, even then you could be some alien from a far off world with a type of 'radiation' that isn't the radiation as we know it or all manner of other creative ideas to play how you want to. But.. characters need flaws (yes even comic-book characters in comic-book worlds) to be interesting.
 

Edited 14 hours ago by Latex

[Marshal_General]

My problem with radiation is that I have a Hulk type of character with radiation armor. The gets it's power from radiation, but does not emit radiation. I can't play the character until I can fully turn off any obvious radiation effects