Respecs for Incarnate Abilities / Powers

[Squid Vicious]

We can change just about everything about character primary and secondary power choices, enhancement slots, AND we get free respecs and the ability to respec some more with trials.  We can even craft respecs.   We can change how we can look, dress, and even what the powers' colors look like, but we can't respec out of incarnate choices once made.  We can only unslot what we've made and create new incarnate abilities.

 

I'd like an ability to respec out of incarnate choices.  I'm not talking about just unslotting and regathering the mats for new ones.  I know how to do that.  I want the ability to /incarnaterespec.  This would refund all incarnate threads, shards, and all rare and very rare incarnate salvage (or equivalent emp. merits).

 

Too much to ask? Cry more, whiny veteran, or nah?

 

 

[BassAckwards]

Would I like the ability to respec incarnates? Sometimes, yes!

 

But my initial reaction is this may be a step too far in making the game easier. Certainly not as disruptive as making incarnate salvage tradeable though, so maybe it would be fine. 
 

Mechanically, I’m not sure if this is possible. 
 

I’m sure this suggestion has probably been brought up and debated before, but I’m interested to hear other people’s thoughts on it. 

[Oklahoman]

I don't hate the idea. As a personal example, maybe early in your incarnate career you like the lore pet Polar Lights because it works thematically with your character. But later, you determine that character is basically just going to do Hamis (low XP, high reward) for whatever reason, and the league leaders are telling you that Longbow is best. This would allow you to cash out your Polar Lights and use those resources to rebuild a Longbow pet that better suits your current needs.

 

Right now, you'd probably have to email yourself some Transcendents from another character so you can build the Longbow, while retaining the Polar Lights you never plan to use again. For some of us that's not a big deal, but I realize most people have these "alts" things and may not have a pile of Transcendents laying around.

[arcane]

30 minutes ago, BassAckwards said:

Would I like the ability to respec incarnates? Sometimes, yes!

 

But my initial reaction is this may be a step too far in making the game easier. Certainly not as disruptive as making incarnate salvage tradeable though, so maybe it would be fine. 

Same.

 

I’ve been doing a ton of work lately replacing old incarnate choices. And I’m not even one of the people that has all Incarnate T4’s unlocked on their main. It’s an awful lot to ask for for free.

 

If it were heavily restricted, I might be okay with it. Once per toon, cost equivalent to hundreds of millions, that kind of thing.

Edited Monday at 03:08 PM by arcane

[golstat2003]

I think this would be a nice QOL request they could fulfill. Would make moving things around to prepare for endgame or hard mode activities slightly easier. I would be fine with it having or cost or even zero cost. Either way, good suggestion. 😊
 

EDIT: With that said I am not sure how difficult this would be to fulfill. Seeing as how we really have not gotten anything new in the incarnate system in well . . . I think ever . . . Makes me think making large changes to it is not easy.

Edited Monday at 04:11 PM by golstat2003

[arcane]

@golstat2003 Doing this any time at zero cost would absolutely be a non-starter. That would mean there will never again be a point to having more than 6 T4 Incarnate powers, and would thus retroactively render so many hundreds or thousands of gameplay hours a complete waste of time. If veteran players aren’t somehow reimbursed that would be a pretty major middle finger.

 

Imagine being one of those players that worked hard to unlock every T4. Their efforts would mean zero with your suggestion. Several steps too far.

 

My proposed boundaries under which I wouldn’t see this change as a step too far:

Minimum frequency - once per character

Maximum frequency - once per year per character 

Minimum cost - 100 million influence 

Maximum cost - 500 million influence 

Edited Monday at 05:14 PM by arcane

[lemming]

I wouldn't mind being able to turn in an incarnate ability, but just have it produce an amount of threads equal to using the breakdown method.

Maybe 1/2 emp merits for the Rare & VR salvage.  (So, 4 & 15)

 

I mainly want to get rid of an accidentally clicked on T1...

[Rudra]

Not really a fan. I personally don't see the point. The benefit of respecs is that it lets us effectively remake our characters for the limited resources available to our characters. We can only ever have one primary set, one secondary set, up to four power pools, and one ancillary/patron. And from those seven pools of 44 powers, we can have 24 powers. Never any more than that. (Edit: And once chosen, we can't change those powers ever unless we use a respec and basically start the character over within the limits of the game engine.) Whereas with incarnate powers, we can have all of them. Every last one. We can slot only one per type (Alpha, Lore, etc.), but we can have every power from every type across every theme in those types. If we really wanted to, that means we could have both T4s, all four T3s. both T2s. and the T1 for everything all at the same time available to us to have slotted. If we grind enough to do so. And incarnates include their own respec ability automatically. As long as we haven't just changed the power or were in combat, we can change any incarnate power we have slotted for any other incarnate power we have crafted. That is a respec, and it is one we don't need to craft or get any respecs to use.

 

All that said? I guess I don't really care. If the devs decide to grant a new level of incarnate respec that lets us break down crafted powers, that's their choice. I'm not going to cheer if it happens, but neither will I cry or scream about it. It's not going to affect me either way. However, I am very much against it not having a cost for doing so. That is the one part I will most definitely oppose, it not having a cost to do so.

 

(Edit again: Oh yeah. Since your request is to break down crafted incarnate powers as a respec, you should probably do a search on the forums for the previous threads about breaking down incarnate powers.)

 

Edited Monday at 05:36 PM by Rudra

[golstat2003]

31 minutes ago, arcane said:

@golstat2003 Doing this any time at zero cost would absolutely be a non-starter. That would mean there will never again be a point to having more than 6 T4 Incarnate powers, and would thus retroactively render so many hundreds or thousands of gameplay hours a complete waste of time. If veteran players aren’t somehow reimbursed that would be a pretty major middle finger.

 

Imagine being one of those players that worked hard to unlock every T4. Their efforts would mean zero with your suggestion. Several steps too far.

 

My proposed boundaries under which I wouldn’t see this change as a step too far:

Minimum frequency - once per character

Maximum frequency - once per year per character 

Minimum cost - 100 million influence 

Maximum cost - 500 million influence 

very very good points. Agreed with the proposed boundaries. 😊

[Chris24601]

So, in terms of refunds… isn’t this just a back door to allowing intra-account shifting of Incarnate stuff? Respec it down to as many Emps as possible, mail those to another of your toons and rebuild whatever powers you want without having to go through earning the Emps on that toon.

 

I already have enough Emps banked from the toons I enjoy doing incarnate stuff on that I can get at least all my T3s on any toon as soon as I unlock each slot.

 

All this would do is mean I could yoink even more Emps from toons that are basically parked and get my active toons T4’d even faster.

[battlewraith]

People that have more than 6 T4 Incarnate powers would still have more than 6 T4 incarnate powers. People that had unlocked every T4 incarnate would still have every T4 incarnate unlocked. 

 

This is a game, not a career path. Over the entire history of the game, development has trended away from the grindy, time consuming nature of a paid service that had a financial investment in people spending a lot of time to unlock things. If some veteran players feel this is a big middle finger--Great! They need to get over their entitlement. I remember a time when I had to do a mission every time I needed to respec, and there was only 4 available. Now I get respecs in the course of leveling and the game is better for it. You need to pay a heavy fee because I wasted my time is not an argument for anything. 

[arcane]

34 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

People that have more than 6 T4 Incarnate powers would still have more than 6 T4 incarnate powers. People that had unlocked every T4 incarnate would still have every T4 incarnate unlocked. 

 

This is a game, not a career path. Over the entire history of the game, development has trended away from the grindy, time consuming nature of a paid service that had a financial investment in people spending a lot of time to unlock things. If some veteran players feel this is a big middle finger--Great! They need to get over their entitlement. I remember a time when I had to do a mission every time I needed to respec, and there was only 4 available. Now I get respecs in the course of leveling and the game is better for it. You need to pay a heavy fee because I wasted my time is not an argument for anything. 

Can I have your stuff since you’re taking the laughable disingenuous position that time investment should have zero value?

[battlewraith]

17 minutes ago, arcane said:

Can I have your stuff since you’re taking the laughable disingenuous position that time investment should have zero value?

 

Funny you should ask. I imagine the people most adamantly against this sort of proposal are hoarders who are sitting on a largesse of resources. I just play for fun. "My stuff" is generally enough to outfit one new character at a time. 

 

If your time investment was not for entertainment--I hate to break it to you but the things you've accrued have virtually no actual value. Maybe you could get 50 bucks for your account or something. These days I doubt it.

Edited Monday at 06:45 PM by battlewraith

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

Funny you should ask. I imagine the people most adamantly against this sort of proposal are hoarders who are sitting on a largesse of resources. I just play for fun. "My stuff" is generally enough to outfit one new character at a time. 

 

If you're time investment was not for entertainment--I hate to break it to you but the things you've accrued have virtually no actual value. Maybe you could get 50 bucks for your account or something. These days I doubt it.

Okay. I’ll take your small amount of stuff then, thanks. It has no value to you.

 

Obviously there are more kinds of value than monetary value or you would have no reason to beg for free stuff.

 

Also, my total “loose change” across my whole account totals 30M at this point. What if we didn’t make stupid assumptions just to construct a strawman we can argue against.

Edited Monday at 06:51 PM by arcane

[Akisan]

I'm not sure the game keeps track of how you get your incarnate salvage (Emps, trial rewards, horribly expensive manual crafting, w/e), so any proposed "refund" would likely have to simply refund the specific salvages (and possibly powers, which again, may not be tracked,) that went into the power being refunded.  Said salvage isn't necessarily even the correct salvage for the replacement power you want.  

 

I'd recommend a different route for this - using a (limited) piece of Incarnate salvage (like a Notice or Favor of the Well), you can exchange 1 Incarnate power for an incarnate power of the same rank.

[battlewraith]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

Okay. I’ll take your small amount of stuff then, thanks. It has no value to you.

 

Obviously there are more kinds of value than monetary value or you would have no reason to beg for free stuff.

Good lord could you be any more myopic?

As I said, the stuff I have is for entertainment value. Can you read? It's what is required to keep making characters.

 

Nobody's begging for free stuff. It's a respec option that concerns an investment that has already been made. You are against it because you feel that it makes your previous time investment less valuable to you, and everyone should cater to your feelings on the matter. I couldn't care less about that. Anymore than a new player should be concerned about all the time I wasted slowly passing through zones before utility travel power, teleporters, etc. became available. 

 

If this got implemented, you would still have the things you earned. And nobody should have to pay some dumb fee to make you feel better about the situation lol.

 

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Akisan said:

I'd recommend a different route for this - using a (limited) piece of Incarnate salvage (like a Notice or Favor of the Well), you can exchange 1 Incarnate power for an incarnate power of the same rank.

I’d have to think about the exact numbers in my head but a conversion of this kind sounds fair too. 

[arcane]

1 minute ago, battlewraith said:

Good lord could you be any more myopic?

As I said, the stuff I have is for entertainment value. Can you read? It's what is required to keep making characters.

 

Nobody's begging for free stuff. It's a respec option that concerns an investment that has already been made. You are against it because you feel that it makes your previous time investment less valuable to you, and everyone should cater to your feelings on the matter. I couldn't care less about that. Anymore than a new player should be concerned about all the time I wasted slowly passing through zones before utility travel power, teleporters, etc. became available. 

 

If this got implemented, you would still have the things you earned. And nobody should have to pay some dumb fee to make you feel better about the situation lol.

 

As with all your wonderful ideas, we will know how wonderful they are when the developers decide to implement them. Until then, try to contain your impulses to lash out at disagreement. Peace.

[battlewraith]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

As with all your wonderful ideas, we will know how wonderful they are when the developers decide to implement them. Until then, try to contain your impulses to lash out at disagreement. Peace.

You're always good for a laugh, ciao!

[Captain Fabulous]

And this shit right here, a glowing perfect example, is why most people refuse to post anything in the forums.

The constant bickering, the constant negativity, the constant toxicity is just SO FUCKING OLD.

[Rudra]

17 minutes ago, Akisan said:

I'm not sure the game keeps track of how you get your incarnate salvage (Emps, trial rewards, horribly expensive manual crafting, w/e), so any proposed "refund" would likely have to simply refund the specific salvages (and possibly powers, which again, may not be tracked,) that went into the power being refunded.  Said salvage isn't necessarily even the correct salvage for the replacement power you want.  

 

I'd recommend a different route for this - using a (limited) piece of Incarnate salvage (like a Notice or Favor of the Well), you can exchange 1 Incarnate power for an incarnate power of the same rank.

Valid point, however, my take is to just go ahead and refund the salvage for the power broken down. Yes, that would mean that any powers required to craft said power would be lost, including their salvage, but it is the rare and very rare salvage components that are the most expensive (or time consuming) part of the power. Break down a T4 radial Cimeroran Lore power? You get a Supercharged Capacitor, Detailed Reports, and Forbidden Technique. Those commons aren't helpful for the power you want? That's okay, there are multiple ways to get threads and common salvage is cheap to craft. That very rare isn't helpful for the power you want? That's okay, the game gives us the ability to convert it. And now the player has a leg up on getting the power (s)he/they wants. Definitely no Empyrean Merits to be given though.

 

Edited Monday at 07:24 PM by Rudra
Edited to add "though".

[lemming]

36 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Valid point, however, my take is to just go ahead and refund the salvage for the power broken down. Yes, that would mean that any powers required to craft said power would be lost, including their salvage, but it is the rare and very rare salvage components that are the most expensive (or time consuming) part of the power. Break down a T4 radial Cimeroran Lore power? You get a Supercharged Capacitor, Detailed Reports, and Forbidden Technique. Those commons aren't helpful for the power you want? That's okay, there are multiple ways to get threads and common salvage is cheap to craft. That very rare isn't helpful for the power you want? That's okay, the game gives us the ability to convert it. And now the player has a leg up on getting the power (s)he/they wants. Definitely no Empyrean Merits to be given though.

I'd be cool with this method.   It would let people back out of any mistakes and if they need different components, they can convert.

The only issue might be with someone taking shards into an alpha and converting it that way to thread based components, but honestly I don't think that would cause much imbalance.  It would probably cause a down tick in Super Inspirations since you could convert to threads, break down and buy inspirations, but it's a bit convoluted.

[biostem]

I mean, if you're patient, you can eventually craft and swap-to any Incarnate ability, which is very different than other powers.  I can see wanting/needing those extra few resources to craft the specific Incarnate ability you want *now*, but any such method of breaking down/recycling incarnate powers for their constituent components would have to lose some materials in the process, for balance purposes;  getting the specific incarnate ability you want now in exchange for losing some components.  This really just seems like a concession for those who cannot wait a bit longer...

[TheMoneyMaker]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

I mean, if you're patient, you can eventually craft and swap-to any Incarnate ability, which is very different than other powers.  I can see wanting/needing those extra few resources to craft the specific Incarnate ability you want *now*, but any such method of breaking down/recycling incarnate powers for their constituent components would have to lose some materials in the process, for balance purposes;  getting the specific incarnate ability you want now in exchange for losing some components.  This really just seems like a concession for those who cannot wait a bit longer...

Kind of like how you lose stuff in a regular respec because you decide to follow a different path or upgrade your choices or whatever. Gotta lose some stuff to maintain balance.

 

In other words, I disagree.

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Kind of like how you lose stuff in a regular respec because you decide to follow a different path or upgrade your choices or whatever. Gotta lose some stuff to maintain balance.

 

In other words, I disagree.

You can unslot and re-slot regular powers for free, (as long as you're out of combat)???