General archtype/power balance

[Snokle]

6 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

here’s a short and potentially argumentative guide:

 

don’t try to play it like a scrapper, use you mez abilities to lock down the mobs with ease

get perma dom to crush everything

Use inspirations as needed.

 

 

A true guide to Doms under 5 secs. 90 secs for perma-dom.

[Talen Lee]

20 hours ago, FFTMime said:

I think part of the issue is having three melee AT's in the first place

... Four.

 

Realistically, seven, but, like, Stalkers are meant to be a melee AT.

[ScarySai]

I think the main issue is just HC neglecting to bring up underperformers in a timely manner.

 

The things they've done so far are mostly good, but for the patch cadence, it's really not enough.

 

Though, the way they've been handling nerfs is a bit questionable. The nerf to the brute damage cap while buffing tanks was a prime example of some backwards logic. They also neutered fire armor's damage output and essentially made it boring.

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:57 PM by ScarySai

[Clave Dark 5]

8 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

some dom primary and secondaries suck

 

choose a mind/fire or plant/energy and you’ll have a whale of a time

 

don’t try to play it like a scrapper, switch on the brain and think about which enemies need to be mezzed or simply killed

 

use your bloody inspirations

 

get perma dom

 

you have now completed your 11 second guide on dominators

Some Primary and Secondary sets are indeed easy street, others are just fine as well.  Beware either/or answers.

 

Don't play as a scrapper?  Boy do you and I play Doms differently.  Some Primaries and Secondary sets were designed for melee, you're not some gimped Controller.

 

Every AT should use their Inspirations.

 

Perma-Dom is pretty good, but just easy-street crutching yourself into the mindless farming play style, so not 100% necessary (still easy enough to get though, and I usually do).

 

One can't learn everything in 11 seconds:  https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dominator_Strategy

 

ETA: check the damage scale for Doms in melee, only ATs score higher: https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Damage#Damage_Scale_by_Archetype

Edited Tuesday at 02:48 PM by Clave Dark 5

[Mopery]

7 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

don’t try to play it like a scrapper

My Fire/Earth permaDom plays like a Scrapper, double damage auras, crunchy melee attacks, lock em down then knock em down. 😁

 

Doms can easily melee if they build for it, ranged is just safer generally.

[MoonSheep]

21 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Some Primary and Secondary sets are indeed easy street, others are just fine as well.  Beware either/or answers.

 

Don't play as a scrapper?  Boy do you and I play Doms differently.  Some Primaries and Secondary sets were designed for melee, you're not some gimped Controller.

 

Every AT should use their Inspirations.

 

Perma-Dom is pretty good, but just easy-street crutching yourself into the mindless farming play style, so not 100% necessary (still easy enough to get though, and I usually do).

 

One can't learn everything in 11 seconds:  https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dominator_Strategy

 

ETA: check the damage scale for Doms in melee, only ATs score higher: https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Damage#Damage_Scale_by_Archetype

 

what i mean is, don’t face tank the mobs and ruin the alt for the sake of focusing on a defence heavy IO build. playing with an attack:shield mentality is often not optimal - it’s generally better to just mez the most damaging or troublesome enemy and then splat them

 

@Mopery i agree, my mind/fire is entirely ranged but i’m always in the mobs as often that’s generally where the buffs are - hence the use of many insps, gotta crunch them down like skittles

[srmalloy]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

Yeah, that is what the Dev vision was for Redside.  Then players.... started playing. 

The Dev vision for Masterminds wasn't helped by the way that Masterminds were forced to resummon their henchmen after each door entrance, then had to individually buff each of them. This took up time that the rest of the team would often use to clean up the map while the Mastermind(s) were busy, dropping the Tank role into the hands of the Brutes by default. By the time that MM henchmen were able to survive mission doors, and the buffs were made AoE, Brutes chasing Fury had become the team pointmen.

[ScarySai]

48 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

The Dev vision for Masterminds wasn't helped by the way that Masterminds were forced to resummon their henchmen after each door entrance, then had to individually buff each of them. This took up time that the rest of the team would often use to clean up the map while the Mastermind(s) were busy, dropping the Tank role into the hands of the Brutes by default. By the time that MM henchmen were able to survive mission doors, and the buffs were made AoE, Brutes chasing Fury had become the team pointmen.

 

They also did not have bodyguard mode at first, which makes the 'vision' even more questionable.

[FFTMime]

2 hours ago, Talen Lee said:

... Four.

 

Realistically, seven, but, like, Stalkers are meant to be a melee AT.

I really don't know why I keep forgetting the poor stalkers.

Maybe mission scripting in a lot of more modern missions breaking their playstyle so badly takes me out of them. 

[tidge]

On 4/21/2025 at 7:56 AM, Falcon Striker said:

I just want to start an open discussion about the game balance, and end game viability and things like scope creep.  It's something my friends and I are starting to notice trying the archetypes out playing a lot recently after not playing for a long time

 

I'd like to first bring up what brought up this discussion, Brutes.  I guess they got nerfed a lot, and SURE you could maybe argue they can fill a dps slot and be some what viable with procs.  But then I'd argue scope creep.  Why pick a brute over a tanker or a scrapper or even a stalker?  They just seem inferior and their rage meter doesn't help them much at all.

 

This suggestion isn't practical (because of existing characters, and *all* the history, going back to how Live Scrappers outclassed Live Tankers for most content before CoV even existed) yet here I go: If there is a belief that Tankers, Scrappers and Stalkers all "have their place" (even if not everyone agrees) the melee class that I think is missing is a melee character that debuffs enemies in PBAoE... not completely dissimilar to how the Sentinel AT does something distinct from Blasters/Corruptors/Defenders/Controllers/Dominators. Keep in mind that I consider Sentinels to be essentially Scrappers with Ranged attacks...

 

If a Brute could (hypothetically) see a scaling increase in damage output by debuffing enemy resistance (with or without the way Fury builds damage output) it would at least give them a different role on teams than the other 'melee' types.

 

 

[Seldom]

So long as you have different definitions of fun, and some folks who know how to bend the invention/incarnate system playing alongside those who feel out basic enhancements, let alone the solo vs. team dynamics, 'true' balance will be impossible.

Let's look just at the 'pure' melee archetypes:

 

Tanker:
On basic Single origin enhancements, with no knowledge of 'best' powers, power pool picks:
Durability: ★★★★☆

Damage: ★★☆☆☆
Single origin enhancements, knowledge of best powers, best power pools:

Durability: ★★★★★

Damage: ★★☆☆☆
With inventions, pools, epic/patrons pools, incarnates all highly tuned:

Durability:  👑 Best in game

Damage: ★★★☆☆
Tanks start easy to use, end easy to use. The 'problem' is that they can max out what they are best at pretty easily, so the only thing you gain from all that work around invention investments is to make a tank that can withstand the end game bosses or the enemies meant to trouble multiple teams at once. Tanks also don't scale well on teams, as with two you start to be redundant if you play to protect or survive. Literally nothing can last better than a fully built out tank. If you love looking out for friends, this is the most fun you'll find. If you play to damage...? It's okay, but slower than any other. They do WAY better against swarms of enemies than against single targets.

 

Brute:
On basic Single origin enhancements, with no knowledge of 'best' powers, power pool picks:
Durability: ★★★☆☆

Damage: ★★★★☆
Single origin enhancements, knowledge of best powers, best power pools:

Durability: ★★★★☆

Damage: ★★★★☆
With inventions, pools, epic/patrons pools, incarnates all highly tuned:

Durability:  ★★★★★

Damage: ★★★★☆
These start as tougher scrappers, with some crowd control options that mean they don't have to chase enemies. With extra power pools layered on, the most defensive armor sets can be as strong as the least defensive tanker sets. With Invention sets built toward survival, brutes can survive as well as tankers AND do close to scrapper damage.
 

Scrapper:
On basic Single origin enhancements, with no knowledge of 'best' powers, power pool picks:
Durability: ★★☆☆☆- ★★★☆☆ (depending on secondary)

Damage: ★★★★☆
Single origin enhancements, knowledge of best powers, best power pools:

Durability: ★★★☆☆-★★★★☆  (depending on secondary)

Damage: ★★★★☆
With inventions, pools, epic/patrons pools, incarnates all highly tuned:

Durability:  ★★★★☆

Damage: ★★★★★
Scrappers do good damage, but their lower hitpoints and resistance caps mean some armors will work better than others. Scrappers will always do good damage, and with good boosts to their endurance and procs, they can be amongst the most reliable, continuous single target damage around. Unlike brutes, you will also find yourself having the chase foes down, because none of your attacks will taunt foes.

 

Stalker:
On basic Single origin enhancements, with no knowledge of 'best' powers, power pool picks:
Durability: ★☆☆☆☆- ★★☆☆☆ (depending on secondary)

Damage: ★★★★★
Single origin enhancements, knowledge of best powers, best power pools:

Durability: ★★☆☆☆ - ★★★☆☆ (depending on secondary)

Damage: ★★★★★
With inventions, pools, epic/patrons pools, incarnates all highly tuned:

Durability:  ★★★☆☆-★★★★☆

Damage: 👑 Best burst single target damage
Stalkers suffer the same as scrappers when it comes to survival, but worse. Some armors just work better than others for their lower survival, and their survival starts way worse. Even the most ideally built stalker survival will only hit the upper scrapper limits.
But if you're playing a stalker, survival isn't the top priority: damage is. Even the base stalker can blast a boss faster than almost any scrapper, but stalkers will have extremely limited ways to kill crowds. Top end stalkers'  ability to kill a single target fast can only be rivaled by nightwidows. You may have to chase enemies, but if they have time to run, something might be funky.
Because many of your tools to survive involve not being seen, certain high-perception enemies may give you WAY more trouble than they seem like they should.

 

So, what do we have? One archetype that can survive with little work, and with even a bit of focus, can walk away from 90% of fights, though boss fights will last a while. The second needs to work a little to get that tough, but gets damage pretty easily. The third gets damage without trying, but has to really try to survive the dangerous fights. The last does the best damage, but has to almost always be super careful, and has all sorts of caveats to their 'best' performances. Having played all the above, both on SO's and with full 'end game' invention shenanigans, the balance is surprisingly good. It just depends what you're aiming for, expecting, and comparing against.

 

Throw in exact power sets or combos, and yeah, there are some bad comparisons to be found. A base willpower/kinetic melee tanker won't compare well to a fully kitted out Energy melee/Ninjitsu stalker. But that's apples to oranges. In general most will be pretty good at doing what they're made to be on that sliding scale of 'tough guy' to 'dangerous person' scale.

Edited Tuesday at 10:55 PM by Seldom

[MTeague]

4 hours ago, FFTMime said:

I really don't know why I keep forgetting the poor stalkers.

You're not forgetting them. They're in Hide. It makes it hard to see them. 😁

[Troo]

5 hours ago, Seldom said:

So, what do we have? One archetype that can survive with little work, and with even a bit of focus, can walk away from 90% of fights, though boss fights will last a while. The second needs to work a little to get that tough, but gets damage pretty easily. The third gets damage without trying, but has to really try to survive the dangerous fights. The last does the best damage, but has to almost always be super careful, and has all sorts of caveats to their 'best' performances. Having played all the above, both on SO's and with full 'end game' invention shenanigans, the balance is surprisingly good. It just depends what you're aiming for, expecting, and comparing against.

 

I find this.. accurate.

[Neiska]

Personally, I tend to focus more on other things than what is "best" or does most damage. Things like -

Theme - A bit OCD on this, if the name, costume, powers don't all "feel right" to me, then I most likely won't like it regardless of how strong it might be.

Playstyle/flow - if a build is super ultra powerful, but is "clunky" or awkward, then I likely won't enjoy it. Examples are sets like Super Strength or Titan Weapons. They are good, but not for me. I dislike having "windows" of power, but with periods of "low" or "slow." I would rather have a reliable consistent performance regardless of activity, even if it isn't cutting edge or top dps. Because I like to do different activities, on different difficulties, sometimes alone, sometimes with other people. Some people like "when the stars align" and boost performance to incredible levels, but that's just not my cup of tea.

Viability - if I am pigeonholed or forced to take something like Cardio or the P2W END tool it feels like a crutch. Some sets are very rough on the END, like Dark Armor. But I dislike having obligatory/necessary tools just to make something playable.

 

My favorite ATs - Crabber, Mastermind, Tanker. If I had to pick only one, I would go Crabber. Sure, it doesn't take first place in any category, but it's the play/feel/style that I like the most. It has pets, its tough, it can fly/be entirely ranged, and they have good team support. All things I like.

 

Just my musings on the matter. I think people might be focusing too much on just damage or durability when comparing ATs, and when you do that some ATs are going to be dead last pretty much by default. And context matters quite a bit.

 

- Such has having a /Cold on a Hardmode. Debuffs are pretty dang important on the most challenging content, but on speed teams a controller or debuffer may not feel like they are contributing very much when scrappers or blasters are 1 shotting everything at breakneck speed.

-But on the other hand, some setups like dominators or many tankers can solo some incredible things like GMs, ITFs, etc and more. True, it may not be FAST but they "can" which to me in itself is far more impressive than what the biggest damage meta is currently.

 

So its kind of give and take. As far as what is "best" I would say that depends on many things. Do you like to play alone or do you like to team? Do you like to go fast or do you like to take down bigger fish? And the like.

 

Bonus: The most team I had, was an all Soldier/widow Team. Just watching the big boss get swarmed by spiderbots and blasted was absolutely funny. The odd thing? It was one of the smoothest teams I was on. Mostly we just watched the pets mob everything, while the soldiers and widows just blasted from afar. It was a few years ago but I don't think we had a single death the entire mission arc.

 

Now some may say an all Soldier/Widow team isn't meta or optimal, and I don't disagree. But it was a lot of fun, and sometimes thinking outside the box or trying new things can lead to surprising results.

[Scarlet Shocker]

the quest for balance always makes me inwardly groan. That quest, in itself can lead to bigger problems and ruin the game experience. It leads to homogeneity and reduces the features that make a particular AT feel unique and different to others. 

 

It satisfies one need only - the selfish need to make a toon that isn't necessarily powerful but interesting to play to be as powerful as a different one. Often that is based on perception only, which exacerbates the issue.

 

I'd also argue it is a wider symptom of mistrust of the devs "they don't know what they're doing making X so UP/Y so OP" when clearly the devs know better than anyone the issues the game faces.

 

The best advice I can give is don't worry about performance so much enjoyment you get from playing the game and characters you make

[MoonSheep]

13 hours ago, Seldom said:

So long as you have different definitions of fun, and some folks who know how to bend the invention/incarnate system playing alongside those who feel out basic enhancements, let alone the solo vs. team dynamics, 'true' balance will be impossible.

Let's look just at the 'pure' melee archetypes:

 

Tanker:
On basic Single origin enhancements, with no knowledge of 'best' powers, power pool picks:
Durability: ★★★★☆

Damage: ★★☆☆☆
Single origin enhancements, knowledge of best powers, best power pools:

Durability: ★★★★★

Damage: ★★☆☆☆
With inventions, pools, epic/patrons pools, incarnates all highly tuned:

Durability:  👑 Best in game

Damage: ★★★☆☆
Tanks start easy to use, end easy to use. The 'problem' is that they can max out what they are best at pretty easily, so the only thing you gain from all that work around invention investments is to make a tank that can withstand the end game bosses or the enemies meant to trouble multiple teams at once. Tanks also don't scale well on teams, as with two you start to be redundant if you play to protect or survive. Literally nothing can last better than a fully built out tank. If you love looking out for friends, this is the most fun you'll find. If you play to damage...? It's okay, but slower than any other. They do WAY better against swarms of enemies than against single targets.

 

Brute:
On basic Single origin enhancements, with no knowledge of 'best' powers, power pool picks:
Durability: ★★★☆☆

Damage: ★★★★☆
Single origin enhancements, knowledge of best powers, best power pools:

Durability: ★★★★☆

Damage: ★★★★☆
With inventions, pools, epic/patrons pools, incarnates all highly tuned:

Durability:  ★★★★★

Damage: ★★★★☆
These start as tougher scrappers, with some crowd control options that mean they don't have to chase enemies. With extra power pools layered on, the most defensive armor sets can be as strong as the least defensive tanker sets. With Invention sets built toward survival, brutes can survive as well as tankers AND do close to scrapper damage.
 

Scrapper:
On basic Single origin enhancements, with no knowledge of 'best' powers, power pool picks:
Durability: ★★☆☆☆- ★★★☆☆ (depending on secondary)

Damage: ★★★★☆
Single origin enhancements, knowledge of best powers, best power pools:

Durability: ★★★☆☆-★★★★☆  (depending on secondary)

Damage: ★★★★☆
With inventions, pools, epic/patrons pools, incarnates all highly tuned:

Durability:  ★★★★☆

Damage: ★★★★★
Scrappers do good damage, but their lower hitpoints and resistance caps mean some armors will work better than others. Scrappers will always do good damage, and with good boosts to their endurance and procs, they can be amongst the most reliable, continuous single target damage around. Unlike brutes, you will also find yourself having the chase foes down, because none of your attacks will taunt foes.

 

Stalker:
On basic Single origin enhancements, with no knowledge of 'best' powers, power pool picks:
Durability: ★☆☆☆☆- ★★☆☆☆ (depending on secondary)

Damage: ★★★★★
Single origin enhancements, knowledge of best powers, best power pools:

Durability: ★★☆☆☆ - ★★★☆☆ (depending on secondary)

Damage: ★★★★★
With inventions, pools, epic/patrons pools, incarnates all highly tuned:

Durability:  ★★★☆☆-★★★★☆

Damage: 👑 Best burst single target damage
Stalkers suffer the same as scrappers when it comes to survival, but worse. Some armors just work better than others for their lower survival, and their survival starts way worse. Even the most ideally built stalker survival will only hit the upper scrapper limits.
But if you're playing a stalker, survival isn't the top priority: damage is. Even the base stalker can blast a boss faster than almost any scrapper, but stalkers will have extremely limited ways to kill crowds. Top end stalkers'  ability to kill a single target fast can only be rivaled by nightwidows. You may have to chase enemies, but if they have time to run, something might be funky.
Because many of your tools to survive involve not being seen, certain high-perception enemies may give you WAY more trouble than they seem like they should.

 

So, what do we have? One archetype that can survive with little work, and with even a bit of focus, can walk away from 90% of fights, though boss fights will last a while. The second needs to work a little to get that tough, but gets damage pretty easily. The third gets damage without trying, but has to really try to survive the dangerous fights. The last does the best damage, but has to almost always be super careful, and has all sorts of caveats to their 'best' performances. Having played all the above, both on SO's and with full 'end game' invention shenanigans, the balance is surprisingly good. It just depends what you're aiming for, expecting, and comparing against.

 

Throw in exact power sets or combos, and yeah, there are some bad comparisons to be found. A base willpower/kinetic melee tanker won't compare well to a fully kitted out Energy melee/Ninjitsu stalker. But that's apples to oranges. In general most will be pretty good at doing what they're made to be on that sliding scale of 'tough guy' to 'dangerous person' scale.

 

tanks out damage brutes and scrappers in real world play

 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:23 AM by MoonSheep

[Hatchet_Manners]

4 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

the quest for balance always makes me inwardly groan. That quest, in itself can lead to bigger problems and ruin the game experience. It leads to homogeneity and reduces the features that make a particular AT feel unique and different to others. 

 

It satisfies one need only - the selfish need to make a toon that isn't necessarily powerful but interesting to play to be as powerful as a different one. Often that is based on perception only, which exacerbates the issue.

.... 

This is my thought on the subject too.

 

If someone is so worried about brutes not being as strong as tanks, then just make a tank. 

[Seed22]

21 hours ago, ScarySai said:

 

They also did not have bodyguard mode at first, which makes the 'vision' even more questionable.

That lie is the flat earther theory of CoH. Use your eyes people. Look at the threat modifier of a MM vs a Brute and the answer should be clear who was always meant to be the tank. 
 

I think the T3 henchie only has a threat level of maybe 3? MM cant hold aggro reliably and pets die to a fart. How exactly was that gonna tank the likes of the freedom phalanx in LRSF back in the day?

 

Also common sense moment. Brutes had Taunt. I…how do people see this then create the lie about MMs being tanks? None who believe this objective lie can even link a dev saying it.

Edited 20 hours ago by Seed22

[Maelwys]

10 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

That lie is the flat earther theory of CoH. Use your eyes people. Look at the threat modifier of a MM vs a Brute and the answer should be clear who was always meant to be the tank. 
 

I think the T3 henchie only has a threat level of maybe 3? MM cant hold aggro reliably and pets die to a fart. How exactly was that gonna tank the likes of the freedom phalanx in LRSF back in the day?

 

Also common sense moment. Brutes had Taunt. I…how do people see this then create the lie about MMs being tanks? None who believe this objective lie can even link a dev saying it.

They also have seven times the Aggro Cap of a regular Tank/Brute/etc and the part of them that is dealing damage (the pets) can "die" with minimal repercussions. MMs generally can't hold aggro worth a damn (outside of Presence Pool shenanigans) but their pets can technically attract the majority of the map's attention whilst the rest of the team focus Single-Target attacks on one thing at a time (which is a horrible and outdated way to play and a Perma-PA Controller does it infinitely better).

The thing that makes me personally believe that the Devs originally thought Brutes = Redside Scrapper and Mastermind = Redside Tank is that in those days Jack Emmert was in charge and there were much wackier ideas/notions than using a low-threat pet AT as a tank.

[Seldom]

4 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

tanks out damage brutes and scrappers in real world play

 

 

 I can only speak to my experience, Tanks do great (as mentioned) against crowds due to their larger AoE's and target limits, not to mention their ease of keeping large crowds in AoE. But brutes, while not able to wipe as big of crowds, have killed fewer faster, as do scrappers. Against big bosses? That's where the differences show.

 

When I get to 50 and solo a mission like "retrieve stolen incarnate container." I've done it many times with many characters, and you can really feel the difference between the 4. I've brought DPS to help tank buddies because they were at a standstill trying to solo Holtz/Honoree, and my own Tanks usually just bring a vanguard heavy for the DPS if I want because otherwise it takes so long. Meanwhile, my Brutes don't need the heavy and survive decently, my scrappers tend to bring the better inspirations to last against the enemy crowds and two bosses, and my stalkers carry big inspires and let the vanguard heavy aggro/wipe the portal summons. Yeah, these could be me bringing non-incarnates, often SO-only fresh 50's, but that's been my experience so far.

[MoonSheep]

1 hour ago, Seldom said:

 I can only speak to my experience, Tanks do great (as mentioned) against crowds due to their larger AoE's and target limits, not to mention their ease of keeping large crowds in AoE. But brutes, while not able to wipe as big of crowds, have killed fewer faster, as do scrappers. Against big bosses? That's where the differences show.

 

When I get to 50 and solo a mission like "retrieve stolen incarnate container." I've done it many times with many characters, and you can really feel the difference between the 4. I've brought DPS to help tank buddies because they were at a standstill trying to solo Holtz/Honoree, and my own Tanks usually just bring a vanguard heavy for the DPS if I want because otherwise it takes so long. Meanwhile, my Brutes don't need the heavy and survive decently, my scrappers tend to bring the better inspirations to last against the enemy crowds and two bosses, and my stalkers carry big inspires and let the vanguard heavy aggro/wipe the portal summons. Yeah, these could be me bringing non-incarnates, often SO-only fresh 50's, but that's been my experience so far.

 

i expect you’re correct, i play a few tanks and scrappers on the test server - the crits from scrappers definitely make them better for ST

 

i’d find it hard to view a brute as ever being an preferred choice though as my perception is that a scrapper has better burst damage than a brute and the larger AoEs of a tank make them better than a brute for general play. so i agree with OP that brutes are a bit pointless in the modern era

 

i suspect brutes are still popular on homecoming though because they used to be good on live, in the same way people still play psi assault doms because the memory of drain psyche being good 15 years ago keeps people thinking its still a good set even though it’s glory days are long gone 

[Seldom]

53 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

i expect you’re correct, i play a few tanks and scrappers on the test server - the crits from scrappers definitely make them better for ST

 

i’d find it hard to view a brute as ever being an preferred choice though as my perception is that a scrapper has better burst damage than a brute and the larger AoEs of a tank make them better than a brute for general play. so i agree with OP that brutes are a bit pointless in the modern era

 

i suspect brutes are still popular on homecoming though because they used to be good on live, in the same way people still play psi assault doms because the memory of drain psyche being good 15 years ago keeps people thinking its still a good set even though it’s glory days are long gone 

As a completionist, I play all four. I have two scrappers at 50, they are by far my least played class. I personally see little point to scrappers when stalkers and brutes exist. Brutes have similar consistent damage, and on teams can be buffed to be as good as a tank, and have taunt. Stalkers have better burst damage, and when I kit them out, barely different survival. But this is me.

I get that you'd like scrappers, I play with folks who swear by them. The scrapper lovers I know can't stand that stalkers have to invest so much to get where scrappers even start, survival-wise. They hate that there's specific attack orders stalkers have to do to reach peak damage. They don't find joy in managing aggro AND damage the way many team brutes do.

 

The thing is, there's a clear progression from team protector to damage-specialist across the melee classes, and folks have places on that scale that they prefer. The fact that I can love tanks and brutes, and you can love scrappers and see brutes as pointless actually points to reasonable balance.

Edited 17 hours ago by Seldom

[lemming]

I currently have 15 tankers, 12 Brutes, 11 Scrappers, and 3 Stalkers at 50.

 

Mostly it's by concept.   Some combos do seem to work better for the different ATs.  And as mentioned, sometimes it's a personal preference.  

[Chalkarts]

On 4/21/2025 at 2:58 PM, MTeague said:

Heresy #1:  I do not care about clear times. Not one bit. 

Heresy #2:  I do not care how fast or slow I finish a TF. It's not even on radar for me. 

 

Thank you,

This is the reason I don't accept random group invites.  I'm not in a hurry.  

I want to put a static of chill people just doing the normal content, no AE, just leveling and going through the game at a leisurely pace.

 

5 tanks heavily focused on their damage auras just walking around overlapping them and passively killing everything nearby while they discuss the fall flavors. 

[FFTMime]

1 hour ago, Seldom said:

As a completionist, I play all four. I have two scrappers at 50, they are by far my least played class. I personally see little point to scrappers when stalkers and brutes exist. Brutes have similar consistent damage, and on teams can be buffed to be as good as a tank, and have taunt. Stalkers have better burst damage, and when I kit them out, barely different survival. But this is me.

 

I like the concept of scrappers, but gameplay flow is a different issue entirely. Which is something I seem to mind more now than when I played way back on live, and I was definitely on the young side for the userbase. My shift in point of view is pretty obvious now that I'm back with a direct comparison of the same things.

If you're going to go for something, why not go to the extreme? Mediocrity is a terrible thing.. at least in a video game. Where risks aren't really risks and wasting your time is the point anyway. If I wanted to WRITE, it would probably be a scrapper type. Tough enough to take care of problems, but not so invincible as to truly be invincible. Yet in gameplay terms you're more getting the unbuttered toast of gameplay. For those about to type that they LOVE toast even when unbuttered.. that's the point of the comparison. Yes. Lmao. 

Cause if I want to do damage, I have tons of options that are high risk high reward and engaging. If I am tired of dying to petty mistakes and want to feel strong, I can be a tank and be one of the best contributions a team can have to boot. If I want to be a support, I am simply spoiled for choice. If I want soloing to be a minigame, I could play dominators. Scrappers exist in this weird zone of both safe enough but also not spectacular either. While bringing fairly straight forward gameplay. 

It's a weird problem to have cause it's like complaining you're dying of success. There's nothing WRONG with scrappers, but that's kind of also the issue? That they aren't weird, fugly, or halfcocked?