Focused Feedback: Powerset - Regeneration / Proliferation to Tankers

[Ratch_]

Quote

 Revive > Ailment Resistance 

• Converted this power to Ailment Resistance.
• This power is now an auto power.
• Grants a 24% MaxHP buff, half enhanceable.
• Grants -15% resistance to heals (making all heals on you 15% stronger).
• Grants 20% resistance to -Defense, -Endurance, -Speed, -Regeneration, -Recovery, -Recharge, -Range and -ToHit.

Regen being on tankers is awesome and I've wanted this for awhile. My only player reaction to the above is less that I like what I'm seeing, and more that...

Regen gets Defense Debuff Resistance...why? Because reasons???

It's strong and awesome but seems overloaded with all the other resistances being granted. 

I could see maybe adding it to moment of glory that gives DDR for the duration of that power but not a constant thing..

Edited Tuesday at 06:14 PM by Ratch_

[StarkWhite]

Mostly just a thematic "I can heal through any illness or disability" thing, I think.

[ScarySai]

27 minutes ago, Ratch_ said:

Regen gets Defense Debuff Resistance...why? Because reasons???

 

If we're honest, regen's still gonna fold pretty easily for most people if they don't play it properly.  It's top end players that'll really be able to leverage it. With that in mind, I think it's fine that ailment does so much in a vacuum. If you want to build a really tanky regen character, that's a hell of a lot more feasible now.

 

But like I said, I think it needs some +recharge and adjustments to reactive regen's stacking to be in a perfect spot.

[Ratch_]

4 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

If we're honest, regen's still gonna fold pretty easily for most people if they don't play it properly.  It's top end players that'll really be able to leverage it. With that in mind, I think it's fine that ailment does so much in a vacuum. If you want to build a really tanky regen character, that's a hell of a lot more feasible now.

 

But like I said, I think it needs some +recharge and adjustments to reactive regen's stacking to be in a perfect spot.

Yeah, it can definitely still fold without using it's tools which in general is a good play pattern as long as it's reasonable in it's activity. The ddr inclusing matching Willpower's is just striking to me as now I really have no idea why to choose willpower 😂 

[Ekvivu]

Are we signed and sealed on the name "Second Wind"? I foresee some confusion between it and the inspiration of the same name.

Drawing from Dull Pain, what about something that describes the body responding to pain with enhanced/precise regeneration, or that references its new revival capability with a medical term? "Immunity Rush", "Stabilize", "Repair Vitality", "Brace Body" or "Life Support" for instance?

[agentx5]

4 hours ago, StarkWhite said:

From the perspective of someone who was a pre-Jack's vendetta Regen enjoyer (ie *original* true toggle Instant Healing), this is the best Regen has ever felt.

 

From Closed Beta testing, this change to improve the Regen powerset is one of the most positively talked about power changes in this i28p2 update.
I had my doubts at first too, but I encourage everyone to give it a try in Open Beta; you might be pleasantly surprised, once you get a feel for how it plays a bit differently (as I was).

I have to ask though,s @StarkWhite, since I don't have any comparison; how was Regen before Jack decided to ruin it?  Can you describe the playstyle to me in your own words?

[StarkWhite]

1 minute ago, agentx5 said:

 

From Closed Beta testing, this change to improve the Regen powerset is one of the most positively talked about power changes in this i28p2 update.
I had my doubts at first too, but I encourage everyone to give it a try in Open Beta; you might be pleasantly surprised, once you get a feel for how it plays a bit differently (as I was).

I have to ask though,s @StarkWhite, since I don't have any comparison; how was Regen before Jack decided to ruin it?  Can you describe the playstyle to me in your own words?

Keep in mind this was pre-ED! You could fill up Quick Recovery and Stamina with up to six +recovery enhancements each, easily allowing you to get around the "nobody will have enough endurance to run all these toggles continuously" design, and then six-slot your healing toggles with +heal. Up until the nerf, I never took Reconstruction or Dull Pain - I never needed to (which is why the modern perception of Regen as a very clicky set still baffles me sometimes until I remember what year it is).

This new Regen is *not* that. But someone like me who loved "toggle regen" can choose Reactive Regeneration and get at least a little of that feel back (the additional autopower in Ailment Resistance helps with that feeling too).

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

That 50.84% is now an un-enhancable 25%.

 

FH is still enhanceable. So it went from 50 to 40, but you get 20 more from Ailment Resistance and up to 55 more from Reactive Regen, so it's really nothing to worry about.

[BrandX]

4 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

So it's max hp and heal were LOWERED, but it's recharge was INCREASED!???  No no no. Reduce the recharge if it's going to be weaker.

 

While at it, please change reconstruction to absorb, not heal. And add end reduction to quick recovery as well. That 30% recovery sounds nice, but really doesn't ever go as far as it sounds like it would. My regen and wp toons still hardly ever feel it.

 

Haven't tested it yet, but the auto power looks to give +HP too, so was it's +HP just taken from DP and put in a passive for the same net amount?

[StarkWhite]

1 minute ago, BrandX said:

 

Haven't tested it yet, but the auto power looks to give +HP too, so was it's +HP just taken from DP and put in a passive for the same net amount?

Yes.

(Edit: and of course the +MaxHP in the autopower is permanent with no need for slotting shenanigans)

Edited Tuesday at 09:41 PM by StarkWhite

[BrandX]

3 hours ago, Ratch_ said:

Regen being on tankers is awesome and I've wanted this for awhile. My only player reaction to the above is less that I like what I'm seeing, and more that...

Regen gets Defense Debuff Resistance...why? Because reasons???

It's strong and awesome but seems overloaded with all the other resistances being granted. 

I could see maybe adding it to moment of glory that gives DDR for the duration of that power but not a constant thing..

 

It's defense debuff resistance is all of 20%, it's not going to be really noticeable, especially on a set that doesn't quite rely on defense except on it's t9 that lasts 15 seconds.

It will stack tho with some sets that give others defense debuff resistance (just force field if I'm recall).

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, BrandX said:

(just force field if I'm recall).

Darkness Affinity also.

[Crimsanotic]

Most of the regen changes are good and give the set what it really needs (namely debuff resistance); however, why does MoG only give 7-10% psi/tox res/def?

 

If there's a set that shouldn't have the arbitrary psi/toxic survivability hole, it's regen. MoG should get the same amount of defense and resistance to both of those damage types as it does to everything else.

 

In fact, the power's toxic resistance was NERFED because prior to this, it gave the same amount of toxic resistance as it did to everything else.

[lemming]

2 hours ago, agentx5 said:

how was Regen before Jack decided to ruin it? 

Starkwhite covered most of it, but to add.  I had a scrapper that was either alive with a full health bar, or dead briefly.

 

iirc, there were three different nerfs that killed it.   One was ED (which was probably all that was needed), and then downgrades.

 

The one on Beta, I feel is better than current and a bit more survivable.    I think spike damage is still an issue, but there's a lot of value added.

[StarkWhite]

1 minute ago, lemming said:

 I had a scrapper that was either alive with a full health bar, or dead briefly.

Those were definitely the two states of the original Regen scrapper! 😄

[Ratch_]

52 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

It's defense debuff resistance is all of 20%, it's not going to be really noticeable, especially on a set that doesn't quite rely on defense except on it's t9 that lasts 15 seconds.

It will stack tho with some sets that give others defense debuff resistance (just force field if I'm recall).

I think in the long run it's a very strong asset to have and even at 20% it will still have quite a noticeable impact. DDR is one of the hardest things to come by, while +def is one of the easiest.

Edited Tuesday at 10:33 PM by Ratch_

[ScarySai]

4 hours ago, Ratch_ said:

Yeah, it can definitely still fold without using it's tools which in general is a good play pattern as long as it's reasonable in it's activity. The ddr inclusing matching Willpower's is just striking to me as now I really have no idea why to choose willpower 😂 

 

Willpower needs divine intervention at this point, can't stop regen from getting cool stuff in the meantime.

[agentx5]

19 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

Willpower needs divine intervention at this point, can't stop regen from getting cool stuff in the meantime.

Wait wait wait... is that Sai saying they actually LIKE a recent change?! 😄
(PS: teasing, lightly)

Edited Tuesday at 11:13 PM by agentx5

[agentx5]

2 hours ago, StarkWhite said:

Keep in mind this was pre-ED! You could fill up Quick Recovery and Stamina with up to six +recovery enhancements each, easily allowing you to get around the "nobody will have enough endurance to run all these toggles continuously" design, and then six-slot your healing toggles with +heal. Up until the nerf, I never took Reconstruction or Dull Pain - I never needed to (which is why the modern perception of Regen as a very clicky set still baffles me sometimes until I remember what year it is).

This new Regen is *not* that. But someone like me who loved "toggle regen" can choose Reactive Regeneration and get at least a little of that feel back (the additional autopower in Ailment Resistance helps with that feeling too).

I see...  Well that's some interesting insight, thanks! 👍

[Lazarillo]

50 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Willpower needs divine intervention at this point, can't stop regen from getting cool stuff in the meantime.

Willpower ain't gettin' Terrorized, so I'm still likely gonna wanna main it.

[AerialAssault]

I should do my civic duty and report back with some testing.

 

I made a Regen/Dark Melee Tanker and kitted them out with the usual accolades, a suite of T3 Incarnates and a modest but not extravagant build. I'm by no means a master crafter when it comes to builds, it was hastily thrown together. It was a build that someone who plays somewhat casually could reasonably attain, given time. (By casual I mean, hops on for a few hours, runs a TF or two and flips the merits into quick cash).

 

I am by no means a top-tier player, so I just did a few missions at +1/x6 w/ bosses. It was very strong with a lot of sustain potential. The only issue I had was with Arachnos and their portable Mu battery drainers. Things might be different at +4/x8 but I figure the Dev team want to know how the set performs at all tiers of play, not just the absolute maximum.

 

Ailment Resistance in particular synergizes well with Siphon Life. At 3.2k health, Siphon Life was healing for ~500hp every 4 seconds with my build. A competent build maker could probably push that even higher. That said, since I've never played Dark Melee on a Tanker I wouldn't know if that was a significant amount or not, but it was enough healing that I barely needed to touch the self-heal powers.

 

While it wasn't exactly fast at clearing mobs, I felt little to no danger in doing so. Again, I caveat this with the fact that I tend to play casually, so, take from this what you will. I sincerely encourage everyone to test it out because, to me, it feels very strong and has a lot of potential. I would consider it an upgrade to the current Regeneration set.

[MrAptronym]

I don't comment on the Forums much, but I popped on to give a short test with Regen on a tank (It has been a wish of mine for many years). Very basic, no thought out build, soloing. I am extremely happy with it. I have always wanted a regen that was functional, but still felt mostly like it was working off of regeneration and +HP and I think this hits that. Reactive Regeneration feels great,  half the +HP being moved to a passive to make a lower recharge build not quite as unappealing, and I appreciate the debuff resistance, it is a minor (Besides -regen res) but neat and feels on theme.

 

It still feels like regen, I get to see my big HP pool ticking up. I only played around for a short time with no teaming, but I felt pretty competent without being overwhelming.

 

With this and the controller changes, I haven't been this excited for a patch to hit live in a long time! Now I just need to debate on a secondary...

[Troo]

7 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

FH is still enhanceable. So it went from 50 to 40, but you get 20 more from Ailment Resistance and up to 55 more from Reactive Regen, so it's really nothing to worry about.

 

Looks like I was wrong. I read the 'fixed' as applying to the value not across levels.

The base regen resistance at level 50 went from 25.95% to 20%. For one build that is 50.84% vs 39.18%. (shown in hidden below)

 

Spoiler

Current Live

 

Beta Proposed

 

7 hours ago, Wavicle said:

So it went from 50 to 40, but you get 20 more from Ailment Resistance and up to 55 more from Reactive Regen, so it's really nothing to worry about.

 

But here your point REQUIRES taking another TWO powers to equal what was lost.

On a tight existing build I have Dull Pain but not Revive and do not have room for the second. I will have to choose between dropping Placate and Fast Healing as these are the only two powers without IO bonus enhancements.

Placate: which I use very often and recently got a nice buff.

Fast Healing (which is ironic) which is also a big loss.

 

In your opinion @Wavicle which of the powers Stalker Regeneration power set is skip-able now?

 

On 5/26/2025 at 5:01 AM, The Curator said:

Regeneration

 Fast Healing

• Now grants 20% fixed regen resistance at all levels, for all ATs.
• (Stalker only) Now grants 15% recovery buff and 20% recovery debuff resistance.

 

To avoid confusion could we change the language here to something like:

 

Regeneration

 Fast Healing

• Now grants an enhance-able 20% regen resistance, fixed across all levels, for all ATs.
• (Stalker only) Now grants 15% recovery buff and 20% recovery debuff resistance.

OR

• Now grants 20% regen resistance at all levels, for all ATs. (enhance-able)

Thanks

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:41 AM by Troo

[ScarySai]

8 hours ago, agentx5 said:

I have to ask though,s @StarkWhite, since I don't have any comparison; how was Regen before Jack decided to ruin it?

I'm not starkwhite, but I'm qualified to talk about it.

 

Old regen by today's standards would be like lower mid tier at best. Which should say a lot about the state of sets in general back then.

 

Imagine trying to play a SR scrapper without ios and without scaling resists on a scrapper back in the "3 minions = one player" meta, it was a bad time.

Edited Wednesday at 04:47 AM by ScarySai

[Troo]

Is there an intention to change the icon of Second Wind?

 

It is currently using Dull Pain's icon at least on Stalkers and in the notes.