Are Tankers still the "hit more enemies" AT? A spreadsheet.

[Kai Moon]

Quote

Tankers deal the lowest damage of all melee archetypes but make up for it in numbers by being able to hit more enemies than their melee peers

But do they, really?

Now that radius and target cap increases are baked in, on a power by power basis, there's only one way to answer this question:

 

A solid week of testing while out sick from work, and a spreadsheet. Woo!

 

Tanker melee power differences

Power Set	+Radius and +Target Cap	+Radius only	+Target Cap only	Neither
Battle Axe	—	—	Pendulum*, Axe Cyclone, Cleave	—
Broad Sword	Whirling Sword	—	Slice, Head Splitter	—
Claws	Spin	—	Eviscerate	Shockwave
Dark Melee	Touch of Fear	—	Shadow Maul, Dark Consumption*	Soul Drain*
Dual Blades	Typhoon's Edge	—	Sweeping Strike, One Thousand Cuts	—
Electrical Melee	—	—	Jacobs Ladder, Thunder Strike, Lightning Clap	Chain Induction, Lightning Rod
Energy Melee	Whirling Hands	—	Power Crash	—
Fiery Melee	Fire Sword Circle	—	Combustion, Breath of Fire	—
Ice Melee	Frozen Aura	—	Frost	Ice Patch
Katana	The Lotus Drops	—	Flashing Steel, Golden Dragonfly	—
Kinetic Melee	Burst	—	Repulsing Torrent	—
Martial Arts	Dragon's Tail	—	—	—
Psionic Melee	Mass Levitate	—	Psi Blade Sweep	—
Radiation Melee	Atom Smasher	Irradiated Ground	Proton Sweep	—
Savage Melee	Rending Flurry Normal	—	Shred, Rending Flurry Large, Savage Leap	—
Spines	—	Quills	Spine Burst, Ripper	Throw Spines
Staff Fighting	Eye of the Storm	—	Guarded Spin, Innocuous Strikes	—
Stone Melee	—	—	Fault, Tremor	—
Street Justice	Spinning Strike	—	Sweeping Cross	—
Super Strength	—	—	Hand Clap, Foot Stomp	—
Titan Weapons	Whirling Smash	—	Arc of Destruction	Defensive Sweep, Titan Sweep
War Mace	Whirling Mace	—	Shatter	Crowd Control

* Pendulum's power info doesn't state a target cap increase, but it has one, 5 normal damage + 5 reduced damage. Radius increases for Dark Consumption and Soul Drain are reverted on test server, and are disregarded in this table.

Edited Saturday at 08:10 AM by Kai Moon
added missing power

[Sovera]

I've said from day one that bigger AoE means squat in reality. An 8f PbAoE hits as many as a 15f once mobs are clustered around us. It takes pulling two spawns at once for this to be a thing. So anyone not calling two groups at once would be making no use of the 'increased AoE'.

 

But now we get penalized if we pull two groups, so, shrug.

[Glacier Peak]

On 6/21/2025 at 4:04 AM, Kai Moon said:

But do they, really?

Now that radius and target cap increases are baked in, on a power by power basis, there's only one way to answer this question:

 

A solid week of testing while out sick from work, and a spreadsheet. Woo!

 

Tanker melee power differences

Power Set	+Radius and +Target Cap	+Radius only	+Target Cap only	Neither
Battle Axe	—	—	Pendulum*, Axe Cyclone, Cleave	—
Broad Sword	Whirling Sword	—	Slice, Head Splitter	—
Claws	Spin	—	Eviscerate	Shockwave
Dark Melee	Touch of Fear	—	Shadow Maul, Dark Consumption*	Soul Drain*
Dual Blades	Typhoon's Edge	—	Sweeping Strike, One Thousand Cuts	—
Electrical Melee	—	—	Jacobs Ladder, Thunder Strike, Lightning Clap	Chain Induction, Lightning Rod
Energy Melee	Whirling Hands	—	Power Crash	—
Fiery Melee	Fire Sword Circle	—	Combustion, Breath of Fire	—
Ice Melee	Frozen Aura	—	Frost	Ice Patch
Katana	The Lotus Drops	—	Flashing Steel, Golden Dragonfly	—
Kinetic Melee	Burst	—	Repulsing Torrent	—
Martial Arts	Dragon's Tail	—	—	—
Psionic Melee	Mass Levitate	—	Psi Blade Sweep	—
Radiation Melee	Atom Smasher	Irradiated Ground	Proton Sweep	—
Savage Melee	Rending Flurry Normal	—	Shred, Rending Flurry Large, Savage Leap	—
Spines	—	Quills	Spine Burst, Ripper	Throw Spines
Staff Fighting	Eye of the Storm	—	Guarded Spin, Innocuous Strikes	—
Stone Melee	—	—	Fault, Tremor	—
Street Justice	Spinning Strike	—	Sweeping Cross	—
Super Strength	—	—	Hand Clap, Foot Stomp	—
Titan Weapons	Whirling Smash	—	Arc of Destruction	Defensive Sweep, Titan Sweep
War Mace	Whirling Mace	—	Shatter	Crowd Control

* Pendulum's power info doesn't state a target cap increase, but it has one, 5 normal damage + 5 reduced damage. Radius increases for Dark Consumption and Soul Drain are reverted on test server, and are disregarded in this table.

I appreciate the testing, but what is the conclusion? I didn't understand the table beyond the data you collected. 

[MoonSheep]

20 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I appreciate the testing, but what is the conclusion? I didn't understand the table beyond the data you collected. 

 

i’m also unclear on the outcome. these powers had an increase to their AoE size before through gauntlet, but now it’s enforced through a different mechanism - seems in my eyes there’s no difference in AoE size surely

 

the main difference is the ‘overcap’ damage reduction

[ZemX]

2 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

i’m also unclear on the outcome. these powers had an increase to their AoE size before through gauntlet, but now it’s enforced through a different mechanism - seems in my eyes there’s no difference in AoE size surely

 

the main difference is the ‘overcap’ damage reduction

 

It also affects proc math.  In the same way global recharge is not considered in proc rates, neither was global radius/arc strength.  Now that it's cooked into the power directly, Tanker 12ft and 15ft PBAoEs actually proc like 12ft and 15ft PBAoEs... rather than 8ft and 10ft PBAoEs, respectively.

 

Any way you slice it though, this appears mainly to have been a farming/soloing nerf.  To constantly hit those larger target caps for Tankers, you had to constantly have enemies clustered around you.  Where else does that happen as reliably as farming or soloing at x8?  And even with that, Tankers were a whole 2% faster at Trapdoor in Ston's old tests.  On any real team, it's not a contest who is doing more damage.  Was Brutes back then and is even more so now.

[tidge]

(some of) This mirrors what I am seeing:

 

45 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Any way you slice it though, this appears mainly to have been a farming/soloing nerf.  To constantly hit those larger target caps for Tankers, you had to constantly have enemies clustered around you.  Where else does that happen as reliably as farming or soloing at x8?  

 

I definitely feel like this was a LOT of extra effort applied across-the-board to target one AT that simply happened to be doing what other ATs could already do (and still do).

 

I don't typically farm(*1), but I did happen to have a Tanker just about ready to hit level 40 when i28p2 went live. Historically: by the mid 30s my characters have enough slots to handle both the offensive and defensive side of "turning up the spawn size"... and characters with armor sets (of Blasters) can usually crank that dial up more than other ATs. My soloing Tanker did have to turn spawn size back a notch after p2, I felt like I couldn't defeat (too big) spawns fast enough to stay on the green side of the grass before things would go pear-shaped. For smaller spawns (under the newly established cap) I don't notice much difference otherwise.

 

(*1) For me: The closest regular activity is occasionally running Tip missions at x8, to most quickly get a daily Catalyst drop. 

 

[MoonSheep]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

It also affects proc math.  In the same way global recharge is not considered in proc rates, neither was global radius/arc strength.  Now that it's cooked into the power directly, Tanker 12ft and 15ft PBAoEs actually proc like 12ft and 15ft PBAoEs... rather than 8ft and 10ft PBAoEs, respectively.

 

Any way you slice it though, this appears mainly to have been a farming/soloing nerf.  To constantly hit those larger target caps for Tankers, you had to constantly have enemies clustered around you.  Where else does that happen as reliably as farming or soloing at x8?  And even with that, Tankers were a whole 2% faster at Trapdoor in Ston's old tests.  On any real team, it's not a contest who is doing more damage.  Was Brutes back then and is even more so now.

 

thanks for insight on procs

 

is the statement about brutes true though? ston’s tests showed brutes were generally the slowest choice of out scrappers, tanks and brutes unless i’m reading the information wrong

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/39300-melee-powerset-comparison/

 

[ZemX]

7 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

is the statement about brutes true though? ston’s tests showed brutes were generally the slowest choice of out scrappers, tanks and brutes unless i’m reading the information wrong

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/39300-melee-powerset-comparison/

 

 

What I said was, "On any real team..."  Ston's test was +4/x8 solo Trapdoor with IOs, procs, and Incarnates in the mix.  And even then, roll your eyes down to the bottom average completion time for each AT:

 

Scrappers: 5:10

Tankers: 5:10

Brutes:  5:18

 

Eight seconds different.  Hence why I pointed out Tankers were all of 2% faster.  That's smaller... MUCH smaller than the difference between the powersets themselves.  Effectively the three ATs in this test are pretty much neck-and-neck.  To which I have to ask, "So what?"    Because this isn't strictly a damage output test.  You'll notice Stalkers aren't invited.  Why?  Because they don't have a taunt aura available to them.  Indeed, only Willpower was tested so that Scrappers could join the fun because without it, you lose too much damage output to runners.   In other words, Scrappers without a taunt aura are going to fail much harder than Tankers and Brutes on this particular test.  It is NOT a test that isolates only damage output.  Survival is also a factor.  And survival, frankly, is the Tanker's specialty.  The fact these three ATs get this close to the same in solo max-difficulty performance with all the stops pulled out should maybe not even have ever been controversial.

 

Because this is the best case for Tanker "big AoE" benefit.  Keeping those AoEs target-cap saturated means always having a crowd around you.  You can't really achieve that without just a ridiculous absurd crowd of enemies (farming) or x8 soloing where you can optimize the crowd by dragging it spawn to spawn instead of wasting time soloing bosses.  That's why I said , "On any real team..."   Tankers will not see capped AoEs all the time.  The intended "pyramid effect" of dwindling crowd size each spawn should assert itself.  The inability to always crowd every spawn around you.  Hell, some enemies REFUSE to be herded into melee range.

 

And this is not even getting into that old saw, "This game is balanced around SOs" because nix procs from this situation AND capped damage AND Incarnates and then see who wins.  My money would be on Brutes.  Though it might require turning down difficulty because again, survival was a factor here.

[MoonSheep]

47 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

What I said was, "On any real team..."  Ston's test was +4/x8 solo Trapdoor with IOs, procs, and Incarnates in the mix.  And even then, roll your eyes down to the bottom average completion time for each AT:

 

Scrappers: 5:10

Tankers: 5:10

Brutes:  5:18

 

Eight seconds different.  Hence why I pointed out Tankers were all of 2% faster.  That's smaller... MUCH smaller than the difference between the powersets themselves.  Effectively the three ATs in this test are pretty much neck-and-neck.  To which I have to ask, "So what?"    Because this isn't strictly a damage output test.  You'll notice Stalkers aren't invited.  Why?  Because they don't have a taunt aura available to them.  Indeed, only Willpower was tested so that Scrappers could join the fun because without it, you lose too much damage output to runners.   In other words, Scrappers without a taunt aura are going to fail much harder than Tankers and Brutes on this particular test.  It is NOT a test that isolates only damage output.  Survival is also a factor.  And survival, frankly, is the Tanker's specialty.  The fact these three ATs get this close to the same in solo max-difficulty performance with all the stops pulled out should maybe not even have ever been controversial.

 

Because this is the best case for Tanker "big AoE" benefit.  Keeping those AoEs target-cap saturated means always having a crowd around you.  You can't really achieve that without just a ridiculous absurd crowd of enemies (farming) or x8 soloing where you can optimize the crowd by dragging it spawn to spawn instead of wasting time soloing bosses.  That's why I said , "On any real team..."   Tankers will not see capped AoEs all the time.  The intended "pyramid effect" of dwindling crowd size each spawn should assert itself.  The inability to always crowd every spawn around you.  Hell, some enemies REFUSE to be herded into melee range.

 

And this is not even getting into that old saw, "This game is balanced around SOs" because nix procs from this situation AND capped damage AND Incarnates and then see who wins.  My money would be on Brutes.  Though it might require turning down difficulty because again, survival was a factor here.

 

it may be a small difference but would you not agree that the statement of “it's not a contest who is doing more damage.  Was Brutes back then and is even more so now.” is just not correct given brutes historically have always had the lowest damage? the detailed testing to show that brutes are generally not an optimal choice for people who want the highest melee damage

 

if’s fine for people to enjoy playing brutes and like them as their favourite, but the data does show they aren’t the highest output - partly why the tanker changes have been made to round things off a bit

Edited yesterday at 05:30 PM by MoonSheep

[Erratic1]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

I've said from day one that bigger AoE means squat in reality. An 8f PbAoE hits as many as a 15f once mobs are clustered around us. It takes pulling two spawns at once for this to be a thing. So anyone not calling two groups at once would be making no use of the 'increased AoE'.

 

Why wouldn't you pull two spawns together? Just to be inefficient? You're going to survive, so why not leverage AoE to speed kills? I certainly did and had very decent xp gain per hour doing so. Admitted, that was typically solo play...or team when more than one Tanker was about. 

 

Yeah, you could always take spawns one at a time. You could also skip your area powers and only use single targeted ones too.

[Erratic1]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

 

Any way you slice it though, this appears mainly to have been a farming/soloing nerf. 

 

If only farming and soloing by pulling multiple groups together (which apparently only oddballs like myself do) are what is bit, why all the consternation?

[tidge]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

What I said was, "On any real team..."  Ston's test was +4/x8 solo Trapdoor with IOs, procs, and Incarnates in the mix.  And even then, roll your eyes down to the bottom average completion time for each AT:

 

Scrappers: 5:10

Tankers: 5:10

Brutes:  5:18

 

Eight seconds different.  Hence why I pointed out Tankers were all of 2% faster.  That's smaller... MUCH smaller than the difference between the powersets themselves.  

 

So what I'm seeing... Tanker animation times should have been increased by 2% to achieve parity with Brutes?

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

it may be a small difference but would you not agree that the statement of “it's not a contest who is doing more damage.  Was Brutes back then and is even more so now.” is just not correct given brutes historically have always had the lowest damage?

 

No, I would not agree.  I've said "On a real team..." twice now and you keep bringing up a solo map clear test in response.  Why?  I don't know how else to explain what's wrong with using Ston's data as a proxy for ALL game performance.  Ston's testing, because it allows maximizing Tanker AoEs, is pretty much a worst (or best depending on your perspective) case for the Tanker AoE advantage over Brutes.  In ANY other scenario, therefore, Tankers lose to Brutes' superior ST and small group damage output.   You might want to notice how badly Brutes destroy Tankers on the pylon test.  Tankers are 2% faster at Trapdoor and 22% slower at Pylons.   Same goes for any group of five or fewer enemies, which happens all the time on teams once the initial bulk of the spawn is destroyed.  You have bosses and/or scattered enemies all over the place.  It's never the ideal of Trapdoor and clustered enemies.  Not 100% of the time.  Not even 50% of the time.  There is no doubt in my mind that if you long term parsed Brutes and Tankers on the same team, you'd find Brutes out-damaging Tankers easily.  Then and now.

 

39 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

If only farming and soloing by pulling multiple groups together (which apparently only oddballs like myself do) are what is bit, why all the consternation?

 

What I meant by that comment is that it seems to have been a nerf caused by overperformance in farming/soloing.  But the nerf affects everybody because it reduces every AoE that hits over standard caps now.  Even if it's just some of your attacks, some of the time.  It's still a nerf.  And it's unnecessary because, as I said, I seriously doubt Tankers were ever out-damaging Brutes on teams.  It's just not an ideal enough scenario to maximize the Tanker AoE advantage.  And even when you do, Tankers only just barely edge ahead of Brutes.

[MoonSheep]

2 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

No, I would not agree.  I've said "On a real team..." twice now and you keep bringing up a solo map clear test in response.  Why?  I don't know how else to explain what's wrong with using Ston's data as a proxy for ALL game performance.  Ston's testing, because it allows maximizing Tanker AoEs, is pretty much a worst (or best depending on your perspective) case for the Tanker AoE advantage over Brutes.  In ANY other scenario, therefore, Tankers lose to Brutes' superior ST and small group damage output.   You might want to notice how badly Brutes destroy Tankers on the pylon test.  Tankers are 2% faster at Trapdoor and 22% slower at Pylons.   Same goes for any group of five or fewer enemies, which happens all the time on teams once the initial bulk of the spawn is destroyed.  You have bosses and/or scattered enemies all over the place.  It's never the ideal of Trapdoor and clustered enemies.  Not 100% of the time.  Not even 50% of the time.  There is no doubt in my mind that if you long term parsed Brutes and Tankers on the same team, you'd find Brutes out-damaging Tankers easily.  Then and now.

 

 

What I meant by that comment is that it seems to have been a nerf caused by overperformance in farming/soloing.  But the nerf affects everybody because it reduces every AoE that hits over standard caps now.  Even if it's just some of your attacks, some of the time.  It's still a nerf.  And it's unnecessary because, as I said, I seriously doubt Tankers were ever out-damaging Brutes on teams.  It's just not an ideal enough scenario to maximize the Tanker AoE advantage.  And even when you do, Tankers only just barely edge ahead of Brutes.

 

what’s the comparison of scrapper vs brute pylon times? i just feel that brutes are the jack of all trades and master of none 

[ZemX]

29 minutes ago, tidge said:

So what I'm seeing... Tanker animation times should have been increased by 2% to achieve parity with Brutes?

 

[Laughs in Sky Splitter]

[ZemX]

2 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

what’s the comparison of scrapper vs brute pylon times? i just feel that brutes are the jack of all trades and master of none 

 

Recall that Brutes were conceived as the heavy melee of redside back when the sides were strictly separated.  They weren't always an in-between AT.  That came as a result of the unification of the game.  So now they are absolutely an in-between melee AT.  Less durable than Tankers but more durable than Scrappers.  Hence their damage output should be somewhere in-between those as well.  And that does appear to be the case on Pylons.  Stalkers don't show an average here but glancing through the times (too lazy to compute) they look pretty similar to Scrappers.  And Stalkers really are pretty close to Scrappers in durability as well now-a-days.  

 

Basically, Brutes were always doing more damage per target and only lost when Tankers are able to hit more targets than Brutes could.  So these Pylon results were a proxy for not just ST performance but also any time the Brute could hit as many targets as the Tanker, which happened most often against single or at least less than 6 enemies.  And that happens plenty in teams where spawns can be scattered or just not willing to clump up for nice big AoE disposal 100% of the time.  This is why farms are so ridiculous.  They are designed precisely to feed the meat-grinder an endless stream of capped AoE destruction.

[Erratic1]

10 minutes ago, ZemX said:

What I meant by that comment is that it seems to have been a nerf caused by overperformance in farming/soloing.  But the nerf affects everybody because it reduces every AoE that hits over standard caps now.  Even if it's just some of your attacks, some of the time.  It's still a nerf.  And it's unnecessary because, as I said, I seriously doubt Tankers were ever out-damaging Brutes on teams.  It's just not an ideal enough scenario to maximize the Tanker AoE advantage.  And even when you do, Tankers only just barely edge ahead of Brutes.

 

I am fairly sure balance is not impacted by being out of line with any other AT as goes farming, otherwise Defenders need to be demanding nerfs left and right. There may be some tweaking warranted by absolute scales of what can be farmed but that is speaking theoretically. I have no reason to believe that to have been a factor.

 

Solo play, however, is part of the game. I think it is a meaningful consideration. And given Defenders got a damage boost for when they are soloing should suggest I'm not out in left field in that regard. Moreover part of the reason Tanker damage was increased was specifically to make them more capable when solo. So it is odd to me to see soloing being discounted.

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

If only farming and soloing by pulling multiple groups together (which apparently only oddballs like myself do) are what is bit, why all the consternation?

 

A better question is why was this change necessary in the first place?  Brutes are still farming just fine.  If the intended goal was to slow down farming, then well done and thank you to the team here for making my non-farming solo play experience on my tankers more slow and thereby more boring.  As I mentioned in the feedback thread, thank you for the disincentives to run my tankers.  

Edited yesterday at 08:07 PM by ShardWarrior

[ZemX]

15 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

I am fairly sure balance is not impacted by being out of line with any other AT as goes farming, otherwise Defenders need to be demanding nerfs left and right.

 

Except this same point goes for soloing.  "Part of the game" or not, the various ATs are not, and never have been, designed to have parity in solo +4/x8 map clearing speed.  So why start now?  Forget Defenders.  Should a Scrapper without a taunt aura demand a taunt aura because he can't solo Trapdoor as well as a Willpower Scrapper?  What about Stalkers?

 

The fact is this game was designed around the team.  The various ATs were designed to fulfill different team roles.  CAN some of them solo?  Yes.  Can they all solo equally well?  No... and they never have.   If you can do a targeted buff that helps with soloing and doesn't unbalance teaming the way they did for Defenders, great.  Knock yourself out.   But that's not what happened here.

 

Because of this corner case where Tankers could just slightly edge out Brutes with their bigger AoEs by farming/herding enemies, every Tanker gets an AoE nerf?   If my Tanker needs a nerf, it should be because Tankers were doing better than Brutes on regular teams.  Not because of farming or max-difficulty soloing.

[Warboss]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

No, I would not agree.  I've said "On a real team..." twice now and you keep bringing up a solo map clear test in response.  Why?  I don't know how else to explain what's wrong with using Ston's data as a proxy for ALL game performance.  Ston's testing, because it allows maximizing Tanker AoEs, is pretty much a worst (or best depending on your perspective) case for the Tanker AoE advantage over Brutes.  In ANY other scenario, therefore, Tankers lose to Brutes' superior ST and small group damage output.   You might want to notice how badly Brutes destroy Tankers on the pylon test.  Tankers are 2% faster at Trapdoor and 22% slower at Pylons.   Same goes for any group of five or fewer enemies, which happens all the time on teams once the initial bulk of the spawn is destroyed.  You have bosses and/or scattered enemies all over the place.  It's never the ideal of Trapdoor and clustered enemies.  Not 100% of the time.  Not even 50% of the time.  There is no doubt in my mind that if you long term parsed Brutes and Tankers on the same team, you'd find Brutes out-damaging Tankers easily.  Then and now.

 

 

What I meant by that comment is that it seems to have been a nerf caused by overperformance in farming/soloing.  But the nerf affects everybody because it reduces every AoE that hits over standard caps now.  Even if it's just some of your attacks, some of the time.  It's still a nerf.  And it's unnecessary because, as I said, I seriously doubt Tankers were ever out-damaging Brutes on teams.  It's just not an ideal enough scenario to maximize the Tanker AoE advantage.  And even when you do, Tankers only just barely edge ahead of Brutes.

 

Thank you for so articulately stating this Zem. I believe this is what many of us stated on open beta as well.

[Erratic1]

52 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

A better question is why was this change necessary in the first place?  Brutes are still farming just fine.  If the intended goal was to slow down farming, then well done and thank you to the team here for making my non-farming solo play experience on my tankers more slow and thereby more boring.  As I mentioned in the feedback thread, thank you for the disincentives to run my tankers.  

 

I have noted I don't think farming was a consideration. Not sure why so many have leapt to that.

[Erratic1]

43 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Except this same point goes for soloing.  "Part of the game" or not, the various ATs are not, and never have been, designed to have parity in solo +4/x8 map clearing speed.  So why start now?  Forget Defenders.  Should a Scrapper without a taunt aura demand a taunt aura because he can't solo Trapdoor as well as a Willpower Scrapper?  What about Stalkers?

 

Who said anything about parity being needed. I didn't. If anything, that is coming from those complaining as I believe in this very thread you have someone asserting a 2% change in animations is all that was necessary. Maybe the averages you provided should be seen as calling into question why Tankers average clear time was the same as Scrappers.

 

You are free to repeatedly assert teaming is the only thing that matters, but then what is your complaint? A Tankers role on a team is not damage. So why are you complaining, particularly about damage? Your own claim negates your complaint.

[tidge]

15 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I have noted I don't think farming was a consideration. Not sure why so many have leapt to that.

 

As was pointed out by @ZemX : Aside from the PPM formulae mess-up, It's hard to see where Tankers were 'over-performing' except on solo x8. It's hard to imagine x8 and not think 'farming' (of one sort or another).

 

1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Who said anything about parity being needed. I didn't. If anything, that is coming from those complaining as I believe in this very thread you have someone asserting a 2% change in animations is all that was necessary. Maybe the averages you provided should be seen as calling into question why Tankers average clear time was the same as Scrappers.

 

You are free to repeatedly assert teaming is the only thing that matters, but then what is your complaint? A Tankers role on a team is not damage. So why are you complaining, particularly about damage? Your own claim negates your complaint.

 

Hey that was my joke about the animation times needing a 2% increase for 'ston-parity'!

 

The argument about 'roles meaning less damage for some' has a fundamental flaw: 99%+ of the game's rewards are based on defeats from dealing damage... so for solo play, I like when similar ATs achieve similar completion times for similar rewards.

 

Another drawback with 'roles'... nobody is calling for 'survival nerfs' to all non-Tankers. We have seen some of the more ridiculous stuff (Rune of Protection) get hit, but that wasn't specifically to give Tankers a more important role.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

As was pointed out by @ZemX : Aside from the PPM formulae mess-up, It's hard to see where Tankers were 'over-performing' except on solo x8. It's hard to imagine x8 and not think 'farming' (of one sort or another).

 

So should Brute aficionados thrown a fit when Tankers took top farming position from them?

 

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Hey that was my joke about the animation times needing a 2% increase for 'ston-parity'!

 

Fair enough. 👍

 

1 hour ago, tidge said:

The argument about 'roles meaning less damage for some' has a fundamental flaw: 99%+ of the game's rewards are based on defeats from dealing damage... so for solo play, I like when similar ATs achieve similar completion times for similar rewards.

 

Well, I guess everyone can be given Scrapper level damage then. And if Scrapper complain, tough. 

[tidge]

41 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

Well, I guess everyone can be given Scrapper level damage then. And if Scrapper complain, tough.