Please a Hardcore Server!!!

[Slashend]

I originally posted this in general but i think its worth re hashing here...

 

It would be great to see a hardcore server on Homecoming. Where if you die=character deleted (unplayable). Essentially hardcore from Wow just in CoH.

ALSO, it wouldn't allow a start vendor. Like the live servers.

 

Personally i think this would be super fun and exciting. Encouraging more playthrough of contact missions and people playing more carefully aligned to their roles. Blasters would be less hesitant to jump and nuke in, controllers more aware of aggro, scrappers and stalkers not daring to tank, tank more aware of squishies, and defenders actually useful. People more aware of team comps and discussing fight mechanics.

 

The adrenalin you get knowing every fight is important is an amazing indescribable feeling unless you have played a hardcore mode. People would build their characters and teams around survival.

 

No player revives no matter what ticket they submitted. And you disable revive powers in the game.

 

ALSO it would bring a lot of new players into the game. Twitch streams, youtube content etc.

 

I know there is something out there about sticking to the original game but hardcore mode wasn't even a thought when the game was invented.

Please show this some love if you agree and maybe the Devs will hear our prayers! 

[SeraphimKensai]

As I stated in the other post you made, the devs have taken the stance previously that they are unlikely to replicate things that exist that other CoH server groups have implemented. Your requested feature exists already at Thunderspy.

 

To make an exclusive server for hardcore only live once characters that delinks it from sending in-game emails of money and items, isolates the server from the joint Auction House, and disable revival based powers, awaken inspirations, hospitals, base med bays, and level rezzing would significantly increases the workload for the dev team, and also the cost to operate such a server would increase the monthly fee those of us that contribute donations would have to pay.

 

Due to that I find your request to be likely infeasible, and unlikely to be made on Homecoming. That said I'm just a nobody, so request away.

[LightMaster]

While not a bad idea, it can be executed horribly due to several of the game’s mechanics that can end up a Hardcore mode more of a shoehorn that can be an unenjoyable mess than something that is planned such game’s mechanics in mind. Because unlike, say, any good Roguelike or Roguelite games, there is no official minigation of deleting a character.

• RNG: Anything involving RNG, such as ToHit, Defense and chance of secondary effects can and will get even a character with high Defense killed with no warning whatsoever, to the point even a Tanker with capped Defenses can suddenly die. It makes Resist-based powers and powersets much more valuable while the Defense-based powers, while helpful, suddenly became a lot more of a gamble with inconsistent payoffs.
• Domino Effect on Defeats: If done on a team, it requires an even bigger teamwork than usual. It’s easier said than done as one single mistake can cost heavily for a team, meaning that if a Defender or Corruptor with an essential Buff/Debuff set dies, then it can cause a chain reaction where a team is suddenly worse off, especially if the leader sets their notoriety to +4/8. Splitting can be an issue in non-hardcore servers if not done carefully, now imagine how costly a non-organized splitting can cause to a team.
• True Insta-Kills: When I refer to True Insta-Kills, I meant it by “powers that empties your charscter to zero no matter your HP and everything else”. Think of the Dropship and Rikti Pylons in Advanced Mode of Lady Gray Task Force. Or at least one mechanic that instantly kills you or leaves you at 1% of max Health, like Marauder’s Nova Fist, in Incarnate Trials. While a rarity in content before level 50, it can suck immensively if a True Insta-Kill is involved, especially for a team ill-prepared for it.
• Resources: Builds are expensive to prepare, so just imagine taking careful time and spending a lot of Inf to build an ideal toon for the team, only to suddenly die due to the team’s neglect, bad pullings or circumstances that no one saw coming, like a stray Council lieutenant successfully critting on a damaged Blaster or Defender.

In other words, there are too many variables or harsh punishments on permadeath not just to yourself the player, but also your teammates. It is not a concept that would work as an entire server due to the amount of frustrations and variables involved.

 

This concept can work as an optional challenge where a dead player is kicked out of a Task Force with no other penalty, or as a RP / D&D session of skilled and knowledgable players, but as a whole server where random players team up? That can do more harm than good for Homecoming’s impression on players looking for a challenge.

[Lazarillo]

Any server is this, if you choose to play it this way.

[arcane]

It would be a complete waste of time. For that reason, I’m out.

[MTeague]

Per the General Discussion thread.  I do remember really enjoying Diablo 2 Hardcore.  That was INTENSE.  A small group of friends and I used password-protected games to keep out the Player-Killers and griefers that could plague D2 Hardcore.  We also tended to drop off good "starter kit" gear in Act 1 Rogue Camp for each other to nab if anyone could put it to use. If someone did die, it was all hands on deck to try to help them get their corpse back, and we'd occasionally send in very high levels to help bodyguard a newbie / help them powerlevel back up. There was some serious camraderie. 

 

So in principle, I'm sure it could be made to work in CoH. 

 

Would there be sufficient interest? Cannot say. I know for certain that several decades later, I have no interest in permadeath mode anymore. And I definitely would not envy the GM's who would inevitably need to field requests/demands to restore a dead character because "XYZ griefed us!" or "This or that happened and it was unfair!".  Because you know plenty of people would submit tickets for that, again and again.  I also would not want to be the Devs having to consider what content to introduce in one environment or the other, or trying to balance things around it. If I were them I'd probably say "you get what you get and if that means some content is flat impossible in hardcore, too bad for you, learn to stay away from it."

 

But if that's a task they choose to take on, well, all power to you, and all power to those who are interested.  

[Andreah]

19 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

Any server is this, if you choose to play it this way.

This is the way.

 

Some streamer did this a while back, and called it "The Iron Man/Woman Challenge", or something like that. It just takes a few self-imposed rules.

 

Here's the link: 

Their rules aren't hard to follow, and though they're designed for streamers, anyone could follow them.

 

[Rudra]

We already have Hardcore Mode. It's called players deleting their characters when they die. Even better, we can choose to end Hardcore Mode any time we want. By not deleting our characters when they die.

 

(Edit: Also, as to Hardcore Mode not existing before City of? I'm pretty sure it did. Just under different names.)

 

Edited yesterday at 05:11 PM by Rudra

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Slashend said:

I originally posted this in general but i think its worth re hashing here...

Because people will obviously take your desires more seriously if you spam it across multiple subforums. As has been pointed out already, there is nothing preventing you from playing a character on any server in 'hardcore mode' -- not using the S.T.A.R.T. vendor, using only self-generated influence to buy/craft enhancements, and deleting the character when defeated. There is no reason to stand up a completely separate server for this, where the HC staff would be dedicating an entire server's resources to supporting only those characters playing in hardcore mode, particularly since (as it's also been pointed out) this is availble from other CoH server providers. I can see adding an option to the "Helper/Help Me/Roleplayer" role picker to give characters that have been designated for hardcore mode a different name color, so other players can see when they've added a hardcore-mode character to their team, so that if, say, having the character drop team in the middle of a TF when defeated makes a difference to them, they can choose whether or not to keep them on the team. But not having the HC staff do all of the coding work to enforce hardcore mode across an entire server when the players can do that themselves already.

[Ukase]

5 hours ago, Slashend said:

It would be great to see a hardcore server on Homecoming. Where if you die=character deleted (unplayable).

Wait. You can rez your character? Wow. I've been deleting mine when they get defeated and starting over. 

In all seriousness, there have been many hardcore challenges in the forums to make things more interesting for the players that are looking for challenge. Nobody is stopping you from ignoring the START vendor from spawn to 50+3, t-4 in all. Nobody is stopping you from playing by this very rule of your own making. 
Certainly nobody stopped me when I did. Even got to level 50+2, and then I had to go to a hami raid in the hive and scrum with some giant monsters. Jumped in a little sooner than the tanks. And that character no longer exists. (to be transparent, I do strip them of their valuables before I delete them. I'm not a complete masochist.) 

Try the drop challenge - only slot what drops. You can't use START vendor, nor the AH, nor a merit vendor, nor AE. You may use a workbench to craft a recipe that drops - if you have the salvage. Good luck getting some of those rares, and good luck getting enough converters to make what you need. And good luck trying to not have to rest 6-10 times in a mission because end mod recipes and enhancements drop like 1 in 75 times. Hope your character has some way to boost your endurance, or it'll be a long road for ya. 

[Kaika]

Just gona copy paste my other post here

 

Honestly I wouldn't want this, Hardcore in this game is very easy if you just don't go out of your way to take risk. If you just take it slow, play something like a tank or keep the difficulty low you can breeze through it making a server where that's mechanically enforce kinda pointless. Everyone I know who takes up this challenge often has to tack on a ton of other rules or there is never stakes. On top of that, this game is EXTREMELY RNG heavy, death can often happen when the numbers just don't go your way there are obviously ways to mitigate this, but it's a big part of this game, sometimes you do everything right and die to the enemy getting good rolls. That's not even to go into the difficulty in setting this up as a server structure, alot of the code would need to likely be custom written into code the OG devs referred to as "spaghetti code" to implement what is already a niche challenge mode that is already played, and likely would still require personal rules to make interesting. I'm not trying to say there isn't some kinda potential here, but this is a volunteer dev team that already has alot on their plate, I just don't see this happening. Especially for something that can already be done with a little honor.

 

I think adding a tracker for player deaths to the city information terminal though could be a nice idea that likely wouldn't be too difficult, that way you could at least have proof, but otherwise I think it would be a waste of development time and effort.

[El D]

Volunteer to cover the full cost of adding and maintaining a Hardcore server, along with the dev time spent setting it up and monitoring it, and Homecoming might take you up on the suggestion.

 

Otherwise? Exercise self-control and choose to play that way on any of the existing shards, where every player is already currently capable of their own hardcore perma-death run. Don't want in-game mail, markets, START venders, trading, or rez powers? Don't use them.

 

[golstat2003]

12 hours ago, Slashend said:

I originally posted this in general but i think its worth re hashing here...

 

It would be great to see a hardcore server on Homecoming. Where if you die=character deleted (unplayable). Essentially hardcore from Wow just in CoH.

ALSO, it wouldn't allow a start vendor. Like the live servers.

 

Personally i think this would be super fun and exciting. Encouraging more playthrough of contact missions and people playing more carefully aligned to their roles. Blasters would be less hesitant to jump and nuke in, controllers more aware of aggro, scrappers and stalkers not daring to tank, tank more aware of squishies, and defenders actually useful. People more aware of team comps and discussing fight mechanics.

 

The adrenalin you get knowing every fight is important is an amazing indescribable feeling unless you have played a hardcore mode. People would build their characters and teams around survival.

 

No player revives no matter what ticket they submitted. And you disable revive powers in the game.

 

ALSO it would bring a lot of new players into the game. Twitch streams, youtube content etc.

 

I know there is something out there about sticking to the original game but hardcore mode wasn't even a thought when the game was invented.

Please show this some love if you agree and maybe the Devs will hear our prayers! 

 

No thanks.

[TheMoneyMaker]

I feel like this isn't just about people playing the way they want to but also about wanting others to play the way they want.

[Ghost]

If they really wanted hardcore, they would play it with their 50s in PvP zones

 

[mistagoat]

I'm not opposed to something like this existing but I have no interest in ever participating in such a thing.