MAKE ENDURACE A NON ISSUE

[srmalloy]

10 hours ago, Ultimo said:

There's an interesting thing, and I know we're drifting off topic here, but is it an appeal to the bandwagon?  I mean, if there's a lot of people playing it, doesn't that suggest there is some quality in it?

The point is that pointing to numbers alone is the bandwagon appeal. @baster responded better by citing areas where they believe WoW works well, those features drawing people in. Of course, we can also point out that WoW and its various imitations contributed to the 'AE baby' syndrome on Live, where people coming to CoH from WoW and WoW-imitating MMOs would seek out the most effective way to rush to level cap, because WoW taught them that the leveling was just makework until you got to level cap and the end game, and then complained that CoH had no content, without understanding that in CoH the leveling that they had just skipped past was the 'end game'.

[baster]

6 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

Translation: "I want to hear from inexperienced players whose confirmation bias might match my own because they haven't yet learned how to manage endurance issues and this will give undue weight to my position."

 

Endurance is a part of the game and has been for over 20 years. It is designed to place a limit on what players can do in any given moment.

 

Almost all games have two components that require player management. Usually one is Health, and the other is Energy/Heat/Endurance/Stamina etc etc. Our game is no different and requires some level of skill and input from the player to achieve that.

 

I get that some people just want to moronically mash buttons in killkillkill mode but that's not what this game is all about so ultimately

 

/jranger

Yes. I asked for new player perspective to guage how other new commers perciev the endurance straggles with some sets and how they vie that when it comes to their own game enjoyment.

 

Just because something was around for 20 years it dosent mean it shouldn't be changed, on the contrary, it prabobly means an update or rework is in order or could be beneficial. 

 

That is why i proposed transforming all endurance bars and enhancement related % buffs etc in one big swoop in to something else such as: bar fills ip  you get a temporary 10, 15 mayebe 30 srcond buff during which all your procs get 30%-50% chance buff, or you get 100% crit chance during that time or 100% damage buff or something along these lines.

These are placeholder numbers only ofcourse. 

[Shin Magmus]

11 minutes ago, baster said:

Yes. I asked for new player perspective to guage how other new commers perciev the endurance straggles with some sets and how they vie that when it comes to their own game enjoyment.

 

Just because something was around for 20 years it dosent mean it shouldn't be changed, on the contrary, it prabobly means an update or rework is in order or could be beneficial. 

 

That is why i proposed transforming all endurance bars and enhancement related % buffs etc in one big swoop in to something else such as: bar fills ip  you get a temporary 10, 15 mayebe 30 srcond buff during which all your procs get 30%-50% chance buff, or you get 100% crit chance during that time or 100% damage buff or something along these lines.

These are placeholder numbers only ofcourse. 

Yeah no.

[BZRKR]

I like Homecoming CoH just fine as-is.

 

I would love for there to be more superhero games with extensive character customization like CoH. Changing something as fundamental as Endurance should be done in a new game that's built for that from the ground up.

 

So, no thank you to the OP.

[Scarlet Shocker]

24 minutes ago, baster said:

Yes. I asked for new player perspective to guage how other new commers perciev the endurance straggles with some sets and how they vie that when it comes to their own game enjoyment.

 

Just because something was around for 20 years it dosent mean it shouldn't be changed, on the contrary, it prabobly means an update or rework is in order or could be beneficial. 

 

That is why i proposed transforming all endurance bars and enhancement related % buffs etc in one big swoop in to something else such as: bar fills ip  you get a temporary 10, 15 mayebe 30 srcond buff during which all your procs get 30%-50% chance buff, or you get 100% crit chance during that time or 100% damage buff or something along these lines.

These are placeholder numbers only ofcourse. 

 

Alternatively, you could simply learn how to play the game. That would solve all those problems far more effectively.

[golstat2003]

25 minutes ago, baster said:

Yes. I asked for new player perspective to guage how other new commers perciev the endurance straggles with some sets and how they vie that when it comes to their own game enjoyment.

 

Just because something was around for 20 years it dosent mean it shouldn't be changed, on the contrary, it prabobly means an update or rework is in order or could be beneficial. 

 

That is why i proposed transforming all endurance bars and enhancement related % buffs etc in one big swoop in to something else such as: bar fills ip  you get a temporary 10, 15 mayebe 30 srcond buff during which all your procs get 30%-50% chance buff, or you get 100% crit chance during that time or 100% damage buff or something along these lines.

These are placeholder numbers only ofcourse. 

 

Funny enough I could say the same for WoW for the bolded. And WoW players on their forums have said the same.

 

Also again, no to the suggestion. Endurance isn't as a big a problem as this thread is making it out to be.

 

At most I would agree with making SO upgrade cost free after the first time they go red.

[arcane]

29 minutes ago, baster said:

Yes. I asked for new player perspective to guage how other new commers perciev the endurance straggles with some sets and how they vie that when it comes to their own game enjoyment.

 

Just because something was around for 20 years it dosent mean it shouldn't be changed, on the contrary, it prabobly means an update or rework is in order or could be beneficial. 

 

That is why i proposed transforming all endurance bars and enhancement related % buffs etc in one big swoop in to something else such as: bar fills ip  you get a temporary 10, 15 mayebe 30 srcond buff during which all your procs get 30%-50% chance buff, or you get 100% crit chance during that time or 100% damage buff or something along these lines.

These are placeholder numbers only ofcourse. 

If you are new to the game, it would be better to listen to feedback and make sure you’re using all of the resources available to you. Redesigning the game based on the opinions of those who don’t know how to play the game doesn’t make much sense.

[baster]

18 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

Alternatively, you could simply learn how to play the game. That would solve all those problems far more effectively.

Perhaps, but ii also dont hsve to like edurance being such a big part of the game and i can make a forum topic campaigning fior changes, even massive ones. While doing so I can create controversy giving you vets something to read and get angry about instead of scrolling through all the same all, same all.

 

And as you may be aware humans have a big propensity to fight tooth and nail ageinst any change, especially a big or radical one instinctively  even ifbat the end after implementation of such change they actually realize it was a good and beneficial thing. 

[Ghost]

18 minutes ago, baster said:

 

 

And as you may be aware humans have a big propensity to fight tooth and nail ageinst any change, especially a big or radical one instinctively  even ifbat the end after implementation of such change they actually realize it was a good and beneficial thing. 

Like New Coke ?

🤭

[arcane]

21 minutes ago, baster said:

Perhaps, but ii also dont hsve to like edurance being such a big part of the game and i can make a forum topic campaigning fior changes, even massive ones. While doing so I can create controversy giving you vets something to read and get angry about instead of scrolling through all the same all, same all.

 

And as you may be aware humans have a big propensity to fight tooth and nail ageinst any change, especially a big or radical one instinctively  even ifbat the end after implementation of such change they actually realize it was a good and beneficial thing. 

That’s nice - we’re just saying maybe adapting your playstyle is likely to be more productive than holding your breath for this change.

Edited 11 hours ago by arcane

[baster]

3 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Like New Coke ?

🤭

Like new anything. If someone didnt imagine and believe that which the masses believe was impossible to be possible we still be living in a stone age.

 

We humans are creatures of routines and comfort. If something upsets that or is even perceived as potentially upsetting that we will fight ageinst it instinctively, mostly without any serious consideration of what that change could mean in a posive way even. 

[Uun]

8 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Like New Coke ?

🤭

Now I really feel old.

[baster]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

That’s nice - we’re just saying maybe adapting your playstyle is likely to be more productive than holding your breath for this change.

But i like holding my breath  and i like change. Change is refreshing and exiting.

Now change that ultimately tirns out to be substraction of a perceived comfort or experience will be frauned upon but so will only perceived change that upsets ones current routines and comfort one already has. 

Remove and or convert all endurance in to sonething else  like proc, crit, damge or sone other % chance  i say. 

My opinion  my vantage point. Cheers.

[Ghost]

7 minutes ago, baster said:

Like new anything. If someone didnt imagine and believe that which the masses believe was impossible to be possible we still be living in a stone age.

 

We humans are creatures of routines and comfort. If something upsets that or is even perceived as potentially upsetting that we will fight ageinst it instinctively, mostly without any serious consideration of what that change could mean in a posive way even. 

Just because something can be changed, doesn’t mean it should be - or that it will improve anything.

 

As for defending something we are comfortable with.  That’s true.

Just as it’s true that someone will fight tooth and nail for their “original idea”,  all the while ignoring alternative solutions.

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Ghost

[Riverdusk]

On 6/29/2025 at 4:35 PM, baster said:

You never played WoW ??? WooiWoo you must be last of maybe 3 gamer humans left alive that haven't yet play WoW at some point.   Well good for you because that means when you deside to dive in, you are in for a treat. I mean it's only the best MMORPG in history of human kind.

I strongly suggest WoW classic up to and including the Litch King expansion.

 

 

 

I played WoW for a few hours when it first came out and never again.  Didn't hook me at all. 

 

On the other hand just a few minutes into playing during CoH Beta and stepping into Galaxy City for the first time and I was hooked almost instantly.  I remember even the little things like hearing a car passing by for the first time with its radio playing and how it immersed me.  Blasting groups of enemies around (knockback wasn't hated yet 😉 was an amazing feeling.  Not to even mention the costume creator and everyone looking unique from level 1.  WoW felt dull and lifeless and I looked the same as a hundred other people running around. 

 

But to each their own.

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, baster said:

Perhaps, but ii also dont hsve to like edurance being such a big part of the game and i can make a forum topic campaigning fior changes, even massive ones. While doing so I can create controversy giving you vets something to read and get angry about instead of scrolling through all the same all, same all.

 

And as you may be aware humans have a big propensity to fight tooth and nail ageinst any change, especially a big or radical one instinctively  even ifbat the end after implementation of such change they actually realize it was a good and beneficial thing. 

 

This is the game.

 

Don't like the game? Don't play it.

 

You're arguing for something almost nobody else agrees with nor thinks necessary. You're complaining because you can't actually be arsed to learn how to play the game. This is not the fault of anyone other than yourself.

 

If, once you know and understand the game mechanics, you have a legitimate criticism of the game, sure you might want to make a point but right now you're just spouting utter bollocks mate.

[lemming]

On the WOW aside; Tried it, wasn't for me.

 

Anyway, I think where the improvement can happen is how to teach new players how to manage their enhancements better when it comes to End Cost etc.

[Rudra]

Think about your request for a moment. Not just as something you want to defend, but fundamentally. You are asking that a game that was intentionally designed to work in a specific manner from the moment it started the design process to change the rules (mechanics) to suit you. Would you demand that the rules of chess be changed because you may not like its complexity or how one of its rules works? Would you demand WoW drop its forced PvP elements on specific PvE missions or ability for a player to force another player into PvP even if they don't want to PvP because the character's pet can be manipulated by the first player into attacking and activating the PvP flag? (Which at least at the time I tried the game other players could do unless the pet was set to be passive and not respond to absolutely anything.) Do you go around demanding any other game anywhere change its core mechanics because it is 20 or more years old and you just don't want to learn the rules of the game? Because that is exactly what you are doing in this thread. Your arguments have shown that you have zero interest in learning one of the game's core mechanics and instead that the game be changed to suit you. Any attempts to tell you about how to manage your END so you can have a powerhouse character that never runs out of endurance is met with an ambiguous 'sure, whatever'. Maybe. But no.' Do you realize how petty and ridiculous this request is?

[baster]

26 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

This is the game.

 

Don't like the game? Don't play it.

 

You're arguing for something almost nobody else agrees with nor thinks necessary. You're complaining because you can't actually be arsed to learn how to play the game. This is not the fault of anyone other than yourself.

 

If, once you know and understand the game mechanics, you have a legitimate criticism of the game, sure you might want to make a point but right now you're just spouting utter bollocks mate.

Good, nothing like little controversy to wake you old timers up, you get angry, you feel alive. Besides nothing wrong letting people know how things feel and look inexperienced eyes from a perspective of a new or long time absent player.

 

Get read of the blue bar i say, or convert to temporary 15-30 sec % + damage, crit, proc buff that activates roughly around after every 3 spawns and lasts 2-2.5 spawns.

 

Blue bar is a hindrance to your hero, something uou have to manage or work around, what I'm propozing will be beneficial to your hero and provide positive results.

 

I never said i dont like the game. In fact, i love this game. I dont like some aspects of it wchich is mainly the endurance mechanic. Its old, outdated, unnecessary, mot beneficial. Especially for new players.

 

And im free to express my opinions.

 

If you dont like freedom sir, maybe move to China.

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, baster said:

Good, nothing like little controversy to wake you old timers up, you get angry, you feel alive.

I've always maintained that those that claim others are arguing simply for the sake of arguing are making that claim because they have no legs to stand on left. And here you are basically claiming to be arguing for the sake of arguing....

 

I need an aspirin....

[Skyhawke]

14 minutes ago, baster said:

Good, nothing like little controversy to wake you old timers up, you get angry, you feel alive.

 

This sort of lunacy is what gets you on the /ignore list. Sooooo glad I won't be seeing your ridiculous bullshit anymore. 

[JKCarrier]

Paragon Studios tacitly admitted that Endurance was an issue when they made the Fitness pool inherent. I don't think Endurance should be eliminated entirely, but maybe some steps to make it a little less punishing for newbies/lowbies wouldn't be out of line. 

[AerialAssault]

15 minutes ago, baster said:

Blue bar is a hindrance to your hero, something uou have to manage or work around, what I'm propozing will be beneficial to your hero and provide positive results.

 

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

That’s nice

 

 

[Forager]

7 minutes ago, JKCarrier said:

I don't think Endurance should be eliminated entirely, but maybe some steps to make it a little less punishing for newbies/lowbies wouldn't be out of line. 

 

Careful. If you're too moderate and reasonable, they'll take away your forum posting license.

 

@baster this thread is a bit like someone drowning in the kiddie pool and arguing with the people telling him to stand up.

 

Replacing the endurance bar with some kind of super meter mechanic.just sort of moves around your problem. The people who can't figure out endurance won't figure out Other Endurance. The players who did figure it out will just figure out perma-Basterbuff.

 

The game does not do a great job of teaching you how it works. Also, the playerbase here is generally so far removed from the new player's perspective that they sometimes struggle with understanding it. 

 

But tere is a lot of good advice in this thread if you can filter out the "go play somewhere else" and "git gud n00b" replies. You wanted endurance to not be an issue?

 

Poof. It's not.