AE farms

[brian9824]

If the auction house prices were not so out of balance with the inf gains from regular content then AE would be used for what it was designed for... But when a single enhancement can cost over 50mil (stupid prices....)

 

Speaking of rehashing the same old things over and over...

 

Now I'm sure we can figure out a way for ED to factor into this and get the trifecta.

 

Removing ED would make the need for expensive IO sets less of a requirement at endgame and more of a perk/bragging rights and the cost of those enhancements would not be sky high due to not being a requirement for endgame builds and making AE Farms for Inf a thing of the past (trifecta!)

 

Removing ED wouldn't change anything.  It would just encourage more frankenslotting of all the powers and create more power creep. 

 

Most of the expensive IO's are the ones that aren't even effected by ED like Luck of the Gambler recharge, Performance shifter +end, etc.  All of which are easy to buy for the low cost of 50 merits which is basically 1 TF.

[Dr. Gemini]

The only thing I hate about AE farms is, as someone who likes trying AE story arcs, it was always tough to find stories because every time a farm idea came down the pike every single person had to make their own version, which was always an exact duplicate of it, until there would be 5 million and 12 exact same arcs clogging up the interface. So, people want to make AE farms, go for it, just have the consideration to allow me to use the AE for playing stories too.

[Dr. Gemini]

If the auction house prices were not so out of balance with the inf gains from regular content then AE would be used for what it was designed for... But when a single enhancement can cost over 50mil (stupid prices....)

 

Speaking of rehashing the same old things over and over...

 

Now I'm sure we can figure out a way for ED to factor into this and get the trifecta.

 

Removing ED would make the need for expensive IO sets less of a requirement at endgame and more of a perk/bragging rights and the cost of those enhancements would not be sky high due to not being a requirement for endgame builds and making AE Farms for Inf a thing of the past (trifecta!)

 

Removing ED wouldn't change anything.  It would just encourage more frankenslotting of all the powers and create more power creep. 

 

Most of the expensive IO's are the ones that aren't even effected by ED like Luck of the Gambler recharge, Performance shifter +end, etc.  All of which are easy to buy for the low cost of 50 merits which is basically 1 TF.

 

uhhh...I'm pretty sure he was joking in response to my joke.

[brian9824]

If the auction house prices were not so out of balance with the inf gains from regular content then AE would be used for what it was designed for... But when a single enhancement can cost over 50mil (stupid prices....)

 

Speaking of rehashing the same old things over and over...

 

Now I'm sure we can figure out a way for ED to factor into this and get the trifecta.

 

Removing ED would make the need for expensive IO sets less of a requirement at endgame and more of a perk/bragging rights and the cost of those enhancements would not be sky high due to not being a requirement for endgame builds and making AE Farms for Inf a thing of the past (trifecta!)

 

Removing ED wouldn't change anything.  It would just encourage more frankenslotting of all the powers and create more power creep. 

 

Most of the expensive IO's are the ones that aren't even effected by ED like Luck of the Gambler recharge, Performance shifter +end, etc.  All of which are easy to buy for the low cost of 50 merits which is basically 1 TF.

 

uhhh...I'm pretty sure he was joking in response to my joke.

 

Ahh well hard to tell online sometimes.  I've seen people in game say it and actually think its a good idea so its easy to believe lol. 

[jubakumbi]

uhhh...I'm pretty sure he was joking in response to my joke.

 

This is all SRS BZNESS!

[SwitchFade]

All these years and the same tired arguments just get recycled.

Don't you people ever die?

 

:)

 

 

Nah, it's the horse that's dead, they just keep beating on the poor creature.

 

More like the horse is dust and to even beat the thing you have to run an epic level mission of for Hate and Anger to gather the dust, add some Hellion blood and re-constitute the thing to even begin to strike at it.

 

The whole thing, _just like every single other game_ boils down to a group of people that claim they 'cannot imagine why' or 'cannot understand why' someone would play this way, when in reality thier brain chemistry simply does not allow them to accept that other people live their lives differently.

 

This same tired argument is some form exists in _all_ game forums.

 

Play the 'right way' or GTFO.

 

Some don't just lack creativity, they activily try to stiffle it in others, because 'they cannot understand.'

 

Yeah, I am a bit bitter over it, because I am tired of people with no imagination or ability to think ouside the box trying to tell others to stop doing thigs they "just don't understand".

 

I strongly encourage you to remember that the slippery slope of division and dissent begins with rhetoric such as this.

 

Please be mindful that your opinion may be just as exclusionary as those you are admonishing. All communities must have compromise, and to this end please keep in mind that AE itself is an issue on two fronts.

 

One, it is a system resource hog, and cannot be justified.

 

Two, and equally as important, if AE use crowds out all other use and spam overtakes all group forming broadcast posts in game, new player experience is destroyed.

 

All the veterans, you and I included, love this game for the experience we cultivated before, during and after AE. AE farming is an issue when it negatively affects the community in such a way that the majority is being harmed to serve the minority.

 

In such cases, we must decide on scenarios that benefit the greatest good. AE must be kept from destroying regular play, much as pvp has been, as it is secluded.

 

While the majority understands your view, that you want to play the way you want, we ask that you see the view that abuse of it is game breaking in so many other ways. I suggest, rather than lamenting about problems, join us in creating a solution that meets the needs of everyone.

[Prototelis]

 

 

Two, and equally as important, if AE use crowds out all other use and spam overtakes all group forming broadcast posts in game, new player experience is destroyed.

 

 

This wasn't true on Live and it wasn't true when the homecoming servers were first put up and AE farms had normal rewards.

 

 

[jubakumbi]

While the majority understands your view, that you want to play the way you want, we ask that you see the view that abuse of it is game breaking in so many other ways. I suggest, rather than lamenting about problems, join us in creating a solution that meets the needs of everyone.

 

We fundamentally disagree, because IMO, there is no 'problem' other than some people trying to make others bend to their will.

 

AE and PvP are not game breaking, that is chicken-little talking.

[Healix]

I do not, and never have enjoyed PVP but wish for it to always be available for those who do. There is no right or wrong way to play....there is only the way that is fun for you. This is one of the reasons I love this game so much.

[SwitchFade]

While the majority understands your view, that you want to play the way you want, we ask that you see the view that abuse of it is game breaking in so many other ways. I suggest, rather than lamenting about problems, join us in creating a solution that meets the needs of everyone.

 

We fundamentally disagree, because IMO, there is no 'problem' other than some people trying to make others bend to their will.

 

AE and PvP are not game breaking, that is chicken-little talking.

 

I see you may be misunderstanding. The game breaking is not an opinion, it's an observation of occurrence. When AE overwhelmed broadcast, lfg, help and all forms of gameplay, it is breaking. The same can be said for pl'ing in PI. The issue is more about how we use AE. I agree, AE is not the issue, nor is PvP.

 

The issue is, when new players, upon entering the game, are confronted with massive spam on all channels to AE, it is unbalanced.

 

And, it was game breaking in live as well. People left over how prolific AE became.

 

So the issue is not AE, rather, it is us. I'm sure we can find ways to have AE, and not let it ruin the game for new players. I think we must remember that to a new player, what they see in chat, and what groups they join in their initial weeks and months becomes their perception of the game, and they miss out on everything great.

 

I'm sure we can find a better way to discuss, without posting about how each other's opinions or comments are "chicken little"? I am glad you're here, as I am glad everyone is here, and I hope we can take a deep breath and work together to enjoy our game.

[jubakumbi]

So the issue is not AE, rather, it is us. I'm sure we can find ways to have AE, and not let it ruin the game for new players. I think we must remember that to a new player, what they see in chat, and what groups they join in their initial weeks and months becomes their perception of the game, and they miss out on everything great.

 

I'm sure we can find a better way to discuss, without posting about how each other's opinions or comments are "chicken little"? I am glad you're here, as I am glad everyone is here, and I hope we can take a deep breath and work together to enjoy our game.

 

Great. I still disagree. :)

 

We cannot 'fix' people, there is nothing to fix, we are humans.

If people choose to be herd animals, then that is thier choice.

If they bow to peer pressure, that is thier choice.

If they decide to depend on others for information rather than finding it themsleves, that is thier choice.

 

Yes, on live, _some number_ of people were impacted by AE missions...my guess is that number is low...IME, the _forums_ is where the issue was, not in-game.

I played from Day 4, with breaks, through closing.

 

Sure, if you just hate to see AE Farm messages, then your perception on live in-game on Freedom might be that AE was everything, but it was _never_ the issue the _forums_ made it out to be, IME, it was just a bunch of busy-bodies trying to tell people to play the game 'the way they did' because otherwise 'they would not have as much fun'.

 

IMO, it _is_ 'chicken-little' thinking to come and declare AE (Farm messages in chat) ruins the game or that a large enough portion of the population was negatively impacted (or would be now resources permitting).

 

These mythical newbie players with no knowledge of how chat programs work to stop getting spam from others, what peer presure is and that they dont' have to play the way 'everyone' else does, that will be somehow impacted by AE getting enough resources...who are they exactly? How many of them will be impacted? Where is the data?

 

All we have are the remains of the righteous indignation from the players that just hated to see other have fun in a way they disliked. :)

 

So yeah, I might be flippant and blunt, but I learned a long time ago, this is a circular argument about the human need to control and force others into the 'right thing' more than it is about a feature in a video game. All of the arguments revoolve around 'doing it wrong'.

 

:)

 

[Blastit]

We cannot 'fix' people, there is nothing to fix, we are humans.

If people choose to be herd animals, then that is thier choice.

 

A game designer must take into account what most people will do, though, and judge whether that creates an environment that they want for their game.

[jubakumbi]

A game designer must take into account what most people will do, though, and judge whether that creates an environment that they want for their game.

 

Anyone not realizing end users will find ways to use a product they did not originally intend is un-informed.

 

This game was one of the first to allow for player made content in the form of missions with rewards.

Going first is always tough, especially when you cater to creative gamers and don't realize they will use the tools in ways you did not imagine.

So, because they did not think about the ways to bend it, only the happy-path, a common mistake.

 

IMO, with what we know now, the real reason the original developers probably approched the AE the way they did _was_ the hog on resources it is.

 

Now we sit with a game that has many cool features, some features which, because of the FUD the original developers inserted in an attempt to gain control over resources due to a feature they added, has game-playing-police years later trying to tell others how to play.

 

Who am I to judge?

 

I just want to play the game and not have busy-bodies and chicken-littles trying to tell others how NOT to have fun.

[Healix]

I just want to play the game and not have busy-bodies and chicken-littles trying to tell others how NOT to have fun.

 

[srmalloy]

The only thing I hate about AE farms is, as someone who likes trying AE story arcs, it was always tough to find stories because every time a farm idea came down the pike every single person had to make their own version, which was always an exact duplicate of it, until there would be 5 million and 12 exact same arcs clogging up the interface. So, people want to make AE farms, go for it, just have the consideration to allow me to use the AE for playing stories too.

 

Part of the reason why there were so many individual copycat farm missions is that the Paragon Studios staff were fairly rigorous about going through and weeding out the AE missions that existed for no purpose beyond delivering the maximum XP/inf reward for the minimum investment of time or effort, so that many of these clones were confusingly named, and even more obliquely referenced -- I remember the chatspam soliciting people for "meow missions", one of the euphemisms for AE XP farms.

 

I think more of the playerbase would have been onboard with restricting AE missions if the Paragon Studios staff had come out and said that a loaded AE farm takes up as many server resources as, say, ten full teams running regular missions, and that having large numbers of people doing this was contributing to the lag and rubberbanding everyone else experienced. Unfortunately, it was never explained this way, and any social opprobrium was buried under "I'm paying to play the game, I can play it the way I want" responses.

 

The GMs are trying to maintain the servers in a state that provides the best play experience for the most people, and if that requires tweaking rewards to make it less attractive to be a huge resource hog, I'm okay with that; it's their bat and ball, after all. If, with better servers and more capacity, they choose to reinstate the 'standard" rewards, I'm okay with that, too.

[jubakumbi]

The GMs are trying to maintain the servers in a state that provides the best play experience for the most people, and if that requires tweaking rewards to make it less attractive to be a huge resource hog, I'm okay with that; it's their bat and ball, after all. If, with better servers and more capacity, they choose to reinstate the 'standard" rewards, I'm okay with that, too.

 

IMO, this cannot be stressed enough.

Any server right now is under the control of whomever puts it online, period.

The server-runners can do whatever they like, there is no obligation to allow or disallow anything for players.

 

It won't be long before there are mods to do things none of us here have through about previously, new costume parts, etc.

 

I am actually suprised many of the players that worry so much about what others are doing are not just playing on private servers at this point, it's not hard.

[hejtmane]

Here's the issue better to have them in AE farms you want to know why portals only give xp when you destroy them and mobs coming from portals do not they nerfed it because of mission farming back in the old days. After that a lot of the higher missions with timers on it nerfed because we use to mission farm. If it is not AE it will be farming missions that give the best xp etc etc. Hell I use to solo farmed Posi back in the day  to farm merits.

[Dr. Gemini]

Yes, on live, _some number_ of people were impacted by AE missions...my guess is that number is low...IME, the _forums_ is where the issue was, not in-game.

Actually, AE farms appeared to have a huge negative impact on the game (and I say appeared because we never had access to the stats, so I can only base this on what was visible to us at the time). An unusually large infusion of new players came into the game with the AE patch followed by an even larger loss of those players after an unusually short period of time. If you watched chatter about CoH around the internet (outside of CoH-based forums) you saw nothing but comments from people who tried the game and quit because it took them a few hours to get to 50 and there was nothing to do. The devs, based on their comments, seemed to feel the data indicated AE farms were responsible as well. CoH really didn't recover from the negative publicity until Freedom.

 

That said, I blame the devs for that, not the farmers. I'm all for people doing what they want to do, but devs do have to play parents in a game, and make timely adjustments if something is hurting the game. If the GMs see no issue with farming AE, then I have no problem with that. If they need to curtail it for the health of the game, or (as is being done now) to conserve resources, I have no problem with that either.

[marcussmythe]

Whilst I will not tell others how to play (server load concerns are a separate issue), my recollection is that I had a few 50s that were played up through doors and street sweeping, slowly and painfully, respecced as many times as possible to find that perfect balance for the character and my play.

 

Those characters are still real to me and beloved, years later, and I have made new versions of them (Spines/Bio replacing claws/invuln, and DM replacing EM on an innvuln tank).  They wont be IOed Incarnates tomorrow, but they certainly will be in time, because I love them.

 

I also had a number of characters that I later designed, ‘perfect’ characters, all the math done to do exactly ehat I wanted flawlessly.  They walked into farms, walked out at 50, were bootstrapped into their IO sets... and got driven around a few times before being forgotten.

 

So, for me, I wont be doing it again. 

[Zolgar]

Whilst I will not tell others how to play (server load concerns are a separate issue), my recollection is that I had a few 50s that were played up through doors and street sweeping, slowly and painfully, respecced as many times as possible to find that perfect balance for the character and my play.

 

Those characters are still real to me and beloved, years later, and I have made new versions of them (Spines/Bio replacing claws/invuln, and DM replacing EM on an innvuln tank).  They wont be IOed Incarnates tomorrow, but they certainly will be in time, because I love them.

 

I also had a number of characters that I later designed, ‘perfect’ characters, all the math done to do exactly ehat I wanted flawlessly.  They walked into farms, walked out at 50, were bootstrapped into their IO sets... and got driven around a few times before being forgotten.

 

So, for me, I wont be doing it again.

 

It's always hit and miss for me. Honestly, I prefer being bumped to like 30ish, and then going the rest of the way naturally, because I don't much enjoy most of my hero concepts being... unable to do what they're supposed to, you know?

 

For me though the investment is in the concept, not the time spent. :)

[Heraclea]

I suppose what frustrates me more than anything is the fact that creative AE content is apparently harder on the servers than farm content is.  I liked using patrols and ambushes, a lot, in my AE material.  Using them allowed me to give the enemies and other characters lines.  In doing this, I was following the example of the official content, which uses the same resources the same way.  We all have favorite NPC lines.  I assure you, my good man, Nemesis is most definitely 'down with the street'. Word up, my homie, as it were. 

[marcussmythe]

Whilst I will not tell others how to play (server load concerns are a separate issue), my recollection is that I had a few 50s that were played up through doors and street sweeping, slowly and painfully, respecced as many times as possible to find that perfect balance for the character and my play.

 

Those characters are still real to me and beloved, years later, and I have made new versions of them (Spines/Bio replacing claws/invuln, and DM replacing EM on an innvuln tank).  They wont be IOed Incarnates tomorrow, but they certainly will be in time, because I love them.

 

I also had a number of characters that I later designed, ‘perfect’ characters, all the math done to do exactly ehat I wanted flawlessly.  They walked into farms, walked out at 50, were bootstrapped into their IO sets... and got driven around a few times before being forgotten.

 

So, for me, I wont be doing it again.

 

It's always hit and miss for me. Honestly, I prefer being bumped to like 30ish, and then going the rest of the way naturally, because I don't much enjoy most of my hero concepts being... unable to do what they're supposed to, you know?

 

For me though the investment is in the concept, not the time spent. :)

 

There are times I wish there was a ‘start at 22 with SOs’ setting.

[RikOz]

The only complaint I ever had about AE farms was the fact that it was difficult to identify them. I was never interested in farming, I just wanted to play interesting story arcs, and it was super irritating to start an arc that sounded like a story, only to have my poor blaster pounded into a pulp by a gigantic crowd of mobs the instant she zoned in.

[Xantham]

AE farms can and do have an impact on the game at large even ignoring all the issues it causes the physical server.  AE farms don't drop salvage, so you end up with a bunch of high level players with tons of inf and no salvage to create their enhancements, drives up inflation on the salvage market.  This part though is addressed at least on the homecoming servers with all the salvage seeded on the market.

[Suprfli6]

AE farms do drop salvage, if you choose regular rewards rather than tickets. With the current price of recipes and influence/ticket rates for AE missions, ticket farming is vastly inferior to regular rewards anyway so I don’t know why you’d be ticket farming.