CoH 2 What are the Chances

[baster]

As the title says. What do you all think.are the chances of CoH 2 ever being made and what  will it take to get it off the ground?

 

I have no backround in any programming, game development or any such a start-up.

I'm merely a player and enthusiast of CoH. 

 

It would be great to hear from people in the  gaming bussiness, software bussiness or any related fields.

 

Is there any possibility to use kick starter or any similar platform to make this happened  maybe?

 

Edited August 2 by baster

[Go0gleplex]

Very unlikely given both the economic climate at present and amount of work that would be necessary to do so successfully; the latter of which hasn't managed to get done for any other superhero MMO over the last 20 years. Be it the fan-base or that the other attempts, a couple of which being similar to CoH, just couldn't hit the same sweet spot that CoH does or some other factor.  The only thing I could see doing a CoH2 for would be better zone maps, many of which presently are quite dated and more in a style for Quake type battlefields than immersive city-scape, and new story lines and such...though I can also see the way contacts and mission dole-outs happen changing. 

[Heatstroke]

Zero

[lyra]

i dont need a CoH2.

 

Why would you need it? What would you change?

[SherpaDagger]

I agree; chances are 0  - and that's probably a good thing. I think creating a commercially viable game whose goal is to replicate the feel and magic of a 20+ year old game is nigh-impossible. People would get very excited and have nostalgia-fueled expectations that just can't come true. We're incredibly lucky to have the original back.

[El D]

Effectively, Homecoming is CoH 2. Officially licensed on-going development of what came before is as close as we are ever going to get to a sequel. Anything beyond that - such as an actual new MMO - is so remotely unlikely as to be impossible. Homecoming would need to explode in popularity and active player counts multiple times over and maintain that level of interest for years, along with a massive boost in development efforts through the same time period, for any large-scale investment to even be conceptually feasible. Much less allow the necessary time to actually make a modern MMO and finance everything needed for that afterword.

 

As for kickstarters... that Ship of Heroes has long since sailed, hit the iceberg, and sank. The fan projects that attempted crowdsource funding have not manifested anything close to half as good as what already exists, and that's only accounting for the projects that have actually manifested anything at all. Hell, none of them have managed anything as good as Champions Online and that game is a literal zombie of an MMO with no active dev team.

[baster]

8 hours ago, lyra said:

i dont need a CoH2.

 

Why would you need it? What would you change?

For starters new graphics engine, more sophisticated AI, populated cities with a lot more stuff happening. Sky scrapers and other landmarks taken over by various bad guy groups that need clearing with raid bosses on top floors. Consolidate some power sets such as katana&bs in to 1 set and develop several new ones. Balanced fun&rewarding pvp system etc.....,  etc...

[baster]

9 hours ago, SherpaDagger said:

I agree; chances are 0  - and that's probably a good thing. I think creating a commercially viable game whose goal is to replicate the feel and magic of a 20+ year old game is nigh-impossible. People would get very excited and have nostalgia-fueled expectations that just can't come true. We're incredibly lucky to have the original back.

Nothing has 0% of being possible.

Secondly, I would recreate CoH forbadom just with updated graphic etc.. and than expand on it. 

[Troo]

11 hours ago, baster said:

As the title says. What do you all think.are the chances of CoH 2 ever being made and what  will it take to get it off the ground?

 

100%

We're playing it now. New content, new powersets.

 

COX3 with "new graphics engine, more sophisticated AI, populated cities with a lot more stuff happening." blah blah blah

What you are asking for could be $120M+ on the cheap. a reasonable budget would need to be around $250M and could still balloon on a team. 

Start buying those lottery tickets.

 

Spoiler

Estimate examples

Game Title	Release Year	Total Estimated Cost
Grand Theft Auto V	2013	~$265 million
Red Dead Redemption 2	2018	~$500 million
Cyberpunk 2077	2020	~$316 million
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare II	2022	~$450 million
Destiny	2014	~$300 million
The Last of Us Part II	2020	~$150 million
Final Fantasy VII Remake	2020	~$175 million
Hogwarts Legacy	2023	~$300 million
Starfield	2023	~$350 million
Halo Infinite	2021	~$500 million
Fortnite	2017	~$100 million (initial)
Baldur’s Gate 3	2023	~$100 million
Black Myth: Wukong	2024 (est.)	~$100–150 million

 

There's of late been quite a disruption in this space and a bit of a gobbling up / reshuffling of talent. 

Just the cost to actually come up with an answer, a rough plan, and take the temperature on partnerships is gonna be a couple million.

Edited August 2 by Troo

[Troo]

Category	Estimated Cost Range (USD)	Details
1. Game Design & Pre-Production	$500,000 – $5 million	Concept art, game design documentation, prototyping, market research
2. Development Team Salaries	$10 million – $100+ million	Developers, designers, animators, AI engineers, testers, etc.
3. Graphics & Visual Assets	$5 million – $50 million	3D modeling, animation, environment design, ray tracing, VFX
4. Audio & Music	$1 million – $10 million	Voice actors (celebrities or professionals), sound effects, studio recording, licensed music
5. Game Engine & Development Tools	$500,000 – $10 million	Licensing costs (if applicable), tools for back-end, physics engines, proprietary engine maintenance
6. Quality Assurance (QA) & Testing	$1 million – $10 million	Functional testing, bug tracking, optimization for platforms
7. Marketing & Promotion	$10 million – $300+ million	Trailers, influencer campaigns, pre-launch ads, event showcases, cross-media promotions
8. Post-Launch Support & Updates	$1 million – $20 million	DLCs, patches, seasonal updates, live service team
9. Platform Licensing & Distribution	$500,000 – $5 million	Fees to console makers (e.g., Sony, Microsoft), digital storefront cuts (Steam, Epic)
10. Miscellaneous (Legal, HR, Office, etc.)	$500,000 – $5 million	Legal fees, equipment, office space, insurance, admin overhead

[golstat2003]

6 minutes ago, baster said:

Nothing has 0% of being possible.

Secondly, I would recreate CoH forbadom just with updated graphic etc.. and than expand on it. 

There is no large fan base for anything like COH2. And you would need that to even get the idea of the idea for COH2. NCSoft isn’t just going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Yomo Kimyata]

They made Highlander 2 and Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants 2.

 

I think the question here is whether or not anyone thinks they can make an appropriate amount of profit.  Seems iffy.

[Lines]

Astronomically low.

But I'm surprised that another freeform customisation superhero game hasn't popped up in the last decade of big-screen superhero revitalisation, MMO or otherwise. Feels like it would have been a slam-dunk a few years ago, but I think superhero fatigue has set in since.

[legendaryjman]

You got it, its called Champions Online and we all know how that worked out. No matter what, CoH2 would come out with 1/3 of the content CoH has and flop. That is why there is no World of Warcraft 2 there is no way an MMO can compete with itself.

[Troo]

Understanding potential audience, platform availability, marketing.. there are huge variables at play which would need to be examined and locked down.

 

Red Dead Redemption 2: 2018 estimated budget of around $350 million to $400 million. Earned over a $1 billion in just a week of its release. (that's some rarefied air)

Baldur’s Gate 3: 2023 estimated $100+ million (not really an apples to apples)

 

I think I could do it in four years for about $180M with an expansion 18 months later for ~$60M. I'd want a contingency budget of near $36M and an understanding that it may not be profitable out of the gate.

 

 

[FupDup]

The biggest hurdle that we seem to have is with animations and modeling, due to how ancient and unsupported this game's tools for those are. I don't even care if the graphics look the same, a newer engine would just allow us to actually make stuff and offer better performance/stability. 

 

But of course it's all a pipe dream. 

[baster]

39 minutes ago, Troo said:

Category	Estimated Cost Range (USD)	Details
1. Game Design & Pre-Production	$500,000 – $5 million	Concept art, game design documentation, prototyping, market research
2. Development Team Salaries	$10 million – $100+ million	Developers, designers, animators, AI engineers, testers, etc.
3. Graphics & Visual Assets	$5 million – $50 million	3D modeling, animation, environment design, ray tracing, VFX
4. Audio & Music	$1 million – $10 million	Voice actors (celebrities or professionals), sound effects, studio recording, licensed music
5. Game Engine & Development Tools	$500,000 – $10 million	Licensing costs (if applicable), tools for back-end, physics engines, proprietary engine maintenance
6. Quality Assurance (QA) & Testing	$1 million – $10 million	Functional testing, bug tracking, optimization for platforms
7. Marketing & Promotion	$10 million – $300+ million	Trailers, influencer campaigns, pre-launch ads, event showcases, cross-media promotions
8. Post-Launch Support & Updates	$1 million – $20 million	DLCs, patches, seasonal updates, live service team
9. Platform Licensing & Distribution	$500,000 – $5 million	Fees to console makers (e.g., Sony, Microsoft), digital storefront cuts (Steam, Epic)
10. Miscellaneous (Legal, HR, Office, etc.)	$500,000 – $5 million	Legal fees, equipment, office space, insurance, admin overhead

Thank you for writing that up and giving us an overview of what that looks like right now.

 

In my opinion CoH 2 is not only possible but inevitable as are many other popular past and present games.

 

I see a day in the near future say 5-10-15 years from now when AI is sophisticated enough that an average gamer will be able to direct such a AI from the comfort of his own basement to write a code for such game at a minute fraction of the cost. 

 

What you all think about that?.

[OdinAZ]

11 hours ago, baster said:

What do you all think.are the chances of CoH 2 ever being made

 

 

  I thought CoV was CoH 2!

[skoryy]

12 minutes ago, baster said:

What you all think about that?

 

I think you should log off, go outside, and enjoy a pizza.

[Uun]

City of Titans been in development for 12+ years and has still gone nowhere.

[Troo]

27 minutes ago, baster said:

I see a day in the near future say 5-10-15 years from now when AI is sophisticated enough that an average gamer will be able to direct such a AI from the comfort of his own basement to write a code for such game at a minute fraction of the cost. 

 

IF possible, that AI cost would be significant, merely shifting buckets in a budget. There would still be a lot of foundational resources needed which have real cost.

The large investments being made in AI currently are not being made to drive down costs but rather to capture them. 

Yes those services could potentially be offered at a discount, but at this juncture I am guessing speed will be the driver and that might end up being very expensive.

 

Would someone be able to build Stardew Valley using a more available AI, absolutely.

 

 

Not trying to be pessimistic, just offering a realistic 'this is how the world works' view. 

Putting out a homebrew hit is definitely possible. 

Developing a triple-A+ title with the expectations you mentioned is a level of effort akin to the credits we see at the end of a Marvel movie.

 

Edited August 2 by Troo

[Go0gleplex]

What do I think about that?  I think that you've not taken into account the broader associative factors of things and are focused on justifying your stance vs objective assessment...and I don't mean that derogatorily...just as simple statement. I've been in engineering for 40 yrs and project analysis is one of the things that comes with the profession when doing cost estimates, accounting for design issues, etc. 

 

Now...if discarding those other potential negative factors and only dealing with AI IP, AI licensing, and other legalese for commercial usage...it still is unlikely to be some sort of 'basement dweller level of development'. Given the declining educational level of students in the last twenty years I'd have my doubts about 'average' anyone being able to write code much less even understand it. Taking into account the backlash against AI art vs artist IP and increasing restrictions being applied to usage there may not be much available for AI unless it can create original pieces available in 5-15 years; AI being a computer algorithm I don't see that happening either without Skynet being involved...at which point we may have larger issues involving "phased plasma rifles in the 40-watt range". 

 

The other thing is that you'd likely need the game to operate on more of a smartphone platform which is where the younger generations seem to be migrating too in terms of game play if my kids and their friends are any indication of things. The instant gratification factor that has infected even tabletop games would mean the discarding of the xp grind as well plus shorter missions as the attention span of kids these days seems akin to that of mayflies. lol But those are more sociology assessments. 

[Psyonico]

An important thing hasn't been brought up yet, which is the biggest reason we won't see a COH2 any time soon.

 

NCSoft holds the license to CoH.  They shut the original game down while it was still profitable because superhero games didn't fit their current vision.

 

Unless that changes (which us unlikely) or if they're willing to sell their rights to the game (equally unlikely) then CoH2 is a non-starter.

[baster]

45 minutes ago, skoryy said:

 

I think you should log off, go outside, and enjoy a pizza.

Nah, im at work and only get to play 1 week/month so I have nothing to do but dream and annoy people meanwhile.

[skoryy]

Just now, baster said:

Nah, im at work and only get to play 1 week/month so I have nothing to do but dream and annoy people meanwhile.

 

Thanks for the heads-up.  Into the Ignore-O-Matic you go.