Knockback, Stil a Dirty Word?

[Erratic1]

10 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

Knockback can be annoying, yes, but Fold Space isn't exactly a winner in my book either.

 

I did say, "less problematic", not, "without problems".

[PeregrineFalcon]

40 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

However, I don't recall anyone trying to take away knock back.

Semantics. You're simply taking advantage of poor wording on my part.

 

By giving people a way to convert all KB to KD, however you do it, you then open them up to being pressured into turning that toggle on, or slotting that special IO, or whatever. So yeah, that's taking away knock back.

 

And then, once that problem's "solved", the anti-KB crowd will move on to the next "problem" to be solved.

 

Knock back is not a problem. Knock back is a part of the super hero genre. And, according to the Homecoming devs, it's not going anywhere. You all need to take the hint already.

[Riverdusk]

One possible mitigation, particularly to those that complain about the KB slot tax, improve the knockback IO sets.  The sudden acceleration set actually has good set bonuses, including the coveted +recharge for 6 slotting it.  Unfortunately fully slotting the set at level 50 only gives +63.6% damage enhancement.   Accuracy at 47.7% and endurance reduction at 21.2% are also kinda iffy.  Improve the enhancement values for the things people care about and it'd be a good alternative for the powers you want it in and then it wouldn't have any real "KB tax".

 

Basically make 6 slotting Sudden Acceleration viable and I know it'd make playing something like energy blast more tempting, for me anyway.  

 

As someone else brought up, I'd also say make energy torrent and explosive blast do 100% chance of knockback.  Ironically that'd make their knockback less annoying as it'd be more consistent.  The dark blast "torrent" powers, among others, have 100% chance of knockback, so it isn't like it is unheard of.

[Ghost]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

I see where you are seeing this. However, I don't recall anyone trying to take away knock back. I have seen requests to make it a choice, and I have seen requests made to make it synergize well with teams by giving knock back some type of buff or damage scale that makes it sting a lot less on teams that don't like knock back. But taking it away? I don't recall anyone requesting that, and if anyone did request it, I most likely avoided that thread due to the ridiculousness of the suggestion. I mean, I can't speak for everyone else, but what I can say, is rest assure, I am in no way trying to take knock back away from anyone. I just wouldn't stoop that low.  😎

Sorry.

Two simultaneous KB threads have me combining the two.

I was thinking of the person who suggested a toggle he could turn on that would disable everyone else’s KB ability.

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Semantics. You're simply taking advantage of poor wording on my part.

 

By giving people a way to convert all KB to KD, however you do it, you then open them up to being pressured into turning that toggle on, or slotting that special IO, or whatever. So yeah, that's taking away knock back.

 

And then, once that problem's "solved", the anti-KB crowd will move on to the next "problem" to be solved.

 

Knock back is not a problem. Knock back is a part of the super hero genre. And, according to the Homecoming devs, it's not going anywhere. You all need to take the hint already.

 

So because some people are A-holes, we just shouldn't do it? I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't operate like that. And just so you know, I would never take advantage of you deliberately. I simply took it at face value. We actually agree on many things, this just isn't one of them. However, regardless of our disagreement here, you are one of the extreme few who I still maintain respect for.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Solarverse
Reasons

[Solarverse]

21 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Sorry.

Two simultaneous KB threads have me combining the two.

I was thinking of the person who suggested a toggle he could turn on that would disable everyone else’s KB ability.

 

Hmmm, yeah, whoever wrote that must have been joking. That would never fly, lol.

[biostem]

The issue, IMHO, has never been knockback;  It's been the careless use of it.  Unlike other blast secondary effects, which don't really affect enemy positioning in such a detrimental way, irresponsibly using KB can lead to aggroing other groups, ruining buffs or debuffs that rely on enemy targets, or otherwise complicating fights.  If the KB user was solo, nobody would care, because they'd have to deal with the consequences of their own actions, but in a team environment, that can lead to team wipes or greatly extending the time it takes to complete an objective.  It's somewhat similar to when someone immobilizes an enemy or group too early, or if someone uses a phasing power on them at an inopportune time.  In short, when you're on a team, it's no longer about just what you want to do or how you want to use your powers;  Work with the team or leave.

 

Note:  If you are one of the players that DOES know how and when to use KB effectively, then I have nothing but admiration for you!

[BasiliskXVIII]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

 

Hmmm, yeah, whoever wrote that must have been joking. That would never fly, lol.

I don't know if it's necessarily completely insane. Most of the AoE immobs already have a high mag -kb effect. I could potentially see adding -kb to tank/brute damage auras (or a theoretical aura/clickie for some specific armour set current or future) or something to keep the group you've already made nice and packed up so they don't need to worry about a stray KB effect flinging half of your herd off to the side and out of your control. You want to knockback, you still have access to every other enemy on the map that isn't currently being handled by the tank. 

[biostem]

12 minutes ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

I don't know if it's necessarily completely insane. Most of the AoE immobs already have a high mag -kb effect. I could potentially see adding -kb to tank/brute damage auras (or a theoretical aura/clickie for some specific armour set current or future) or something to keep the group you've already made nice and packed up so they don't need to worry about a stray KB effect flinging half of your herd off to the side and out of your control. You want to knockback, you still have access to every other enemy on the map that isn't currently being handled by the tank. 

Would -kb adversely affect KU powers, though?

[BasiliskXVIII]

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

Would -kb adversely affect KU powers, though?

I'm not entirely sure, but based on the fact that Pyro control has -KB in Sparkling Chain which also applies their KU "Blast Off" effect, if it does then I think it would just minimize how high they get knocked and not invalidate the knockup entirely. But I'm not entirely clear on the interaction so I may be wrong.

 

My point was mostly just that we already have -kb tools in the game that affect an area, so I could see that same logic popping up elsewhere.

Edited 3 hours ago by BasiliskXVIII