Is it time to address divergent PvP rules/settings?

[Troo]

Folks who don't care for PvP, no worries, it's just a discussion.

 

If anyone is unaware, our characters can perform differently in PvP environments than they do normally.

 

Maybe it's time that they should perform the same or at least be as close to the same as is reasonable.

None of it has to be across the board. A) In zones B) In some zones C) As an option for arena

 

Why?

• There are a lot of content assets in the PvP.
• Making that content more accessible might be good. (folks complain about things being 'gated' all the time)
• There is more to do in PvP zones than just PvP.
• Some of the best (opinion) mini games are in PvP zones.
• Some great earned buffs are available in PvP zones.

 

I think @Darmian had once suggested making PvE copies of the zones so folks who don't want to PvP could enjoy them. Maybe that's the way to go.

[Darmian]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

PvE copies of the zones so folks who don't want to PvP could enjoy them. Maybe that's the way to go.

Well, if it was only even one zone I'd go for Warburg.  That zone repurposed, with all the Rogue Arachnos, could be used to enhance the entire VEAT storyline.  Hey, Devs, that one is free! 

[Skyhawke]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

I think @Darmian had once suggested making PvE copies of the zones so folks who don't want to PvP could enjoy them. Maybe that's the way to go.

 

+1 for me. I rarely go into PVP zones, but if I do it's 95% to grab the badges and plaques and skeedaddle out of the zone and 5% me remembering that Shivan summons exist. 

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

Maybe it's time that they should perform the same or at least be as close to the same as is reasonable.

None of it has to be across the board. A) In zones B) In some zones C) As an option for arena

Many of the changes made to the way PvP works were done to make PvP less of a "Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock" game, where one AT can routinely curbstomp another particular AT, but gets curbstomped by a third. I remember (although I forget the terminology; it's been a while) the 'accumulating mez immunity' mechanic that was added that makes characters more resistant to mez effects after being mezzed, to prevent them from being chain-mezzed and pounded while unable to do anything as a specific example of this.

[Ravenplume]

4 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

 

+1 for me. I rarely go into PVP zones, but if I do it's 95% to grab the badges and plaques and skeedaddle out of the zone and 5% me remembering that Shivan summons exist. 

 

My only forays into PvP zones is in the course of getting all the day jobs.  Then I just stay at the base (away from the Black Helicopter) until the day job is done.

[macskull]

The entire point of putting temp powers like Shivans and nukes into PvP zones was to add an element of risk to getting them. Creating separate PvE zones with the same content removes that risk.

 

More on point, though: it would be a ton of work to wholesale revert the Issue 13 PvP changes and arguably even more work to only do it in some settings. It would require a dev to want to do it, have the time to do it, and decide that putting in the time would actually be worth it. I know for a fact there are at least two devs on the team who meet the first criterion and one who might occasionally meet the second, but they've both admitted it isn't worth the time.

[Snarky]

[Troo]

5 minutes ago, macskull said:

The entire point of putting temp powers like Shivans and nukes into PvP zones was to add an element of risk to getting them. Creating separate PvE zones with the same content removes that risk.

 

Good points.. though no one is in those zones on the regular now, or for years. So the risk has essentially already been removed, hasn't it?

[macskull]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

Good points.. though no one is in those zones on the regular now, or for years. So the risk has essentially already been removed, hasn't it?

The fact there are several posters on these forums who routinely say they avoid getting those temp powers specifically because they're in PvP zones tells me it hasn't.

Edited 15 hours ago by macskull

[lemming]

44 minutes ago, Troo said:

Good points.. though no one is in those zones on the regular now, or for years. So the risk has essentially already been removed, hasn't it?

I go in them often enough and I think the only time we've had someone insisting on PvP was in RV while we were going for AVs.   And it's been years and that was on Excel I think?   

[Ghost]

7 hours ago, macskull said:

The fact there are several posters on these forums who routinely say they avoid getting those temp powers specifically because they're in PvP zones tells me it hasn't.

That’s just fear of something that doesn’t actually exist anymore - PVPers

🤭

[Scarlet Shocker]

Personally I'm a big fan of PVP - when I want to PVP - and that's a very important caveat. 

 

I enjoy a lot of the content in the PVP zones, especially Shivans, and Warburg but when I'm there to achieve a specific objective, I don't wanna get ganked by some randos, so I totally get why some would never ever set foot into a PVP zone.

 

PVP has always been the red-headed stepchild in this game. It can be great but it's got some really odd rules and regulations that in many ways turn it upside down - like lower level is often more interesting than fun despite lack of powers etc. 

 

My solution would be along the following lines: 

 

Make all PVP zones PVE Coop zones - so that players can run and explore missions and environments together without fear of getting ganked or set upon by players who may well be highly OP compared to them. 

 

Retain PVP copies of those zones in the Arenas, accessible from them, so that players who wish to PVP can enjoy it without upsetting anyone who doesn't want to be involved. 

 

The "rules of engagement" are difficult to fathom; they largely seem to be based around the principle that Defenders are better than anything else and nothing else matters. Blasters in PVP are effectively as useful as a chocolate teapot, which is sad because once they were super good but that's another story. I would like to see the whole damage and debuff scales revisited but I doubt that will happen because it's a) difficult and b) the pushback from players who are unhappy that their favourite PVP toon is a bit less effective will be quite vocal despite it being a minority exercise. 

 

But one of the biggest issues with a lack of PVP is that there's very little organized around it. On live I ran the Friday Night Fight Club which was often very well attended and continued long after I ceased to be involved with it but that proved to be a good amount of fun and got engagement. Get more events, and people will learn how much fun PVP can actually be and that isn't going to change until the player base makes it happen. 

 

[macskull]

Reading all these comments is just making me realize that no one in this thread really knows how PvP works.

[Maelwys]

33 minutes ago, macskull said:

Reading all these comments is just making me realize that no one in this thread really knows how PvP works.

"works".



... 😛

[Troo]

13 hours ago, macskull said:

The fact there are several posters on these forums who routinely say they avoid getting those temp powers specifically because they're in PvP zones tells me it hasn't.

 

Some folks had that bad of an experience (due to other players) that even now they won't use parts of the game in protest.

 

I guarantee if the zones were no longer PvP and there was a GM hunt in those zones the zone use would go up immediately.

[ShardWarrior]

I do not think this change is necessary. 

 

If you want to engage with the PvE content in PvP zones, you should accept the consequences of your choice.  You can and will be attacked by other players once you enter a PvP zone.  That is the nature of the zone.  Survival in PvP, like anything else, can be built toward.  You just need to practice, know what you are doing, and there are many guides available to help people who are interested in learning about it.  There are also a few very friendly, helpful players who are willing to help others.

 

The rewards like the nuke temps in Warburg are as good as they are because of the higher risk in obtaining them.  If by some miracle these zones were made PvE only, I would expect rather enormous nerfs to those temps to coincide with that change.  

[BigGotter]

Add AE buildings to the PvP zones, lol

[Darmian]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

If by some miracle these zones were made PvE only, I would expect rather enormous nerfs to those temps to coincide with that change.  

Maybe. Maybe.  But none of the Nuke Temps matches the Incarnate powers you get at 50, and they're not temps.  So these days, apart from wanting Rocket Woman as a badge, I hardly bother going into the ghost town that is Warburg unless I'm specifically planning to do the OG LRSF where you face off against the original line up of the Freedom Phalanx with Statesman while being locked at level 40. So yes, maybe they might be nerfed but they really don't need to be. 

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

Reading all these comments is just making me realize that no one in this thread really knows how PvP works.

 

I may be overthinking but I sense a degree of snark here that is unnecessary. 

 

If the people in this thread understand the game generally, and PVE in the main and know what they are wishing to achieve from the game and how to get there, then if your statement is correct, that is the fault of PVP and of previous development decisions, rather than of the players themselves. 

 

That is in fact one of the big issues with PVP in this game - the mechanics do feel remarkably different to PVE and that in itself can be daunting to many other than perhaps those who focus on PVP. 

 

Perhaps this is exactly why PVP is only embraced by such a small percentage of the player base. It's not their understanding at fault it's the convoluted roles and rules in PVP itself I'd argue. 

[ShardWarrior]

57 minutes ago, Darmian said:

Maybe. Maybe.  But none of the Nuke Temps matches the Incarnate powers you get at 50, and they're not temps.

 

Players can begin entering Warburg at level 30 (IIRC), which means that the Nuke temps can be obtained long before the character has access to Incarnate abilities.  There is quite a lot of pre-50, pre-incarnate level content that these temps can be useful for.  I am certain that there are players using these temps for content other than the OG LRSF.

 

 

[Darmian]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

 

Players can begin entering Warburg at level 30 (IIRC), which means that the Nuke temps can be obtained long before the character has access to Incarnate abilities.  There is quite a lot of pre-50, pre-incarnate level content that these temps can be useful for.  I am certain that there are players using these temps for content other than the OG LRSF.

 

 

Well, you're possibly correct.  Mostly I never see anyone there myself.