sentinel Semi-Reworking the Sentinel into a tanky ranged AT (or, really, anything to make Sentinel better)

[Steampunkette]

18 minutes ago, Rudra said:

No, I'm looking at inherents, which was your argument, and how they benefit the team. One of your comments was how a Controller's and Dominator's inherent lets them stack mezzes to lock down a target. See below:

 

Except there is no stacking of controls from their inherents. The Controllers are simply stacking controls. The powers in their primary power sets.

 

Then you followed up with a MM comment:

And there have been multiple comments on these forums about how it is better to simply grab a Defender than have even one MM on a team because the individuals making those comments go on about how they can't keep their pets alive and keep up with the team, and MM support isn't as good as Defender support.

 

You then argued that VEATs are welcome on teams, even desired to have multiples of, which I have to assume is because of their inherents because the entirety of the rest of that post was about AT inherents:

Except VEAT inherents are completely useless on a team. It is their secondary power set's auras that makes them welcome. And most of those auras any AT can get from the Leadership pool. (VEATs get to double dip, but that still isn't their inherent.)

 

And all to say that Sentinels with their inherent are worthless to have more than one on a team because their inherent isn't stackable. And my point is your argument is garbage. Because most AT's inherents are worthless to the team itself. They don't even get to be applied to the team's benefit in a non-stacking way like how a Sentinel's does. It isn't the inherent, it is the power picks and how they are played. You can employ Sentinels on a team, with multiple Sentinels, and clear high end content just as easily as you can with any other 'does not have a team buff' inherent. Why? Because, yeah, Blasters are going to out-damage a Sentinel every day of the week and do so at longer ranges, but the Sentinel will last longer in a bad fight and still take down the same targets. It will take longer, yes, but they will still do it. Only one Sentinel's Vulnerability can affect a given target at a time? Until you reach that one target the entire team has to gang up on, the multiple Sentinels on the team are making multiple foes vulnerable to the team's attacks. While still being safer on the field than any Blaster can hope to.

This is -WHY- I'm saying you're comparing apples to carburetors: None of those archetypes boost the entire team's damage with their inherents.

 

Their inherents are entirely internal, self-contained, and provide benefits only to themselves. Sentinels are the only AT in the game whose inherent applies externally.

 

And that is where the problem lies. Their inherent doesn't stack from multiple Sentinels, so you can only benefit from -one- sentinel on the team.

 

What you're doing, here, is strawmanning the absolute shit out of my position by trying to claim that I'm "Only talking about the inherents of all the classes" which is not what I'm doing. 

 

My argument is that the Sentinel's inherent makes it worse to have more than one of them on your team instead of picking up pretty much any other AT there is. That their inherent not stacking with other sentinels makes two sentinels a weaker choice than one sentinel and any other DPS AT in the game.

 

 

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

This is -WHY- I'm saying you're comparing apples to carburetors: None of those archetypes boost the entire team's damage with their inherents.

 

Their inherents are entirely internal, self-contained, and provide benefits only to themselves. Sentinels are the only AT in the game whose inherent applies externally.

 

And that is where the problem lies. Their inherent doesn't stack from multiple Sentinels, so you can only benefit from -one- sentinel on the team.

 

What you're doing, here, is strawmanning the absolute shit out of my position by trying to claim that I'm "Only talking about the inherents of all the classes" which is not what I'm doing. 

 

My argument is that the Sentinel's inherent makes it worse to have more than one of them on your team instead of picking up pretty much any other AT there is. That their inherent not stacking with other sentinels makes two sentinels a weaker choice than one sentinel and any other DPS AT in the game.

 

 

I'm dropping out of this conversation. Even when I pointed out how having multiple Sentinels on the same team benefits the team, you are still fixating on their inherent and how it applies to a single enemy.

 

Edit: I left this part out because I know it will not be well received and I will be getting another GM warning for it, but I'm going to make it anyway. Teams will get more DPS if they tell the second and later Sentinels where they can stick it and shove off? Boo hoo. Who cares. Sentinels in numbers on a team are not going to make that team fail anything in the game that any other better DPS AT will also fail at. Statement made. I now await my GM warning.

 

Edited yesterday at 01:27 AM by Rudra

[Steampunkette]

I'm not reporting it and it doesn't seem like a statement worth a warning, anyhow.

 

Anywho. Yeah. There's ways to make stacking Sentinels on a team better than it is currently, which was all I was looking to highlight.

[CoeruleumBlue]

8 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

"everything" does not suck.

If you enjoy playing City of Heroes, you know that.

 

 

I'm at a loss.

I see Sentinels in no way as being "Scrappers with range".

Scrappers are melee characters and have no ranged attacks. Clearly, Sentinels are Blasters with armor instead of melee attacks (Blaster secondaries).

 

I see no confusion on that nor a need to question it.

 

 

Perhaps some players are too focused on the end-game and aren't playing the actual game (the part before the "end-game")

That appears to be what this is focused on.

But this comment isn't even on "just" the end-game but focused on "...you're mainly concerned with an AV/GM fight..."

 

Personally, I have 3 50's. I don't plan on leveling any more character to level 50. Level 49 is my cap. I don't care for the incarnate system. I don't think it is fair to make level 50's immune from the renaming system simply because they are level 50's. I don't enjoy the end-game as much as the game itself. 

 

Sentinels play fine as far as I'm concerned. I don't see any negatives for playing them versus the other ATs. 

I generally don't solo, so there is that. 

 

 

I don't think people pay attention to perception in general.

When you think about https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Leadership#Tactics do you or anyone else think, "I'm going to get Tactics because it boosts perception"?

I think not. I don't even think anyone really notices when the perception increase make a difference in battle.

I'm not even sure how many people know that they can pop a yellow insp to clear up being blinded.

But not being "blinded" and being able to see stealthed foes at greater range is obviously useful whether a player realizes it or not.

 

 

The AT needs to be left alone.

The AT fills its niche.

Players don't have to play it if they don't want to.

 

I don't feel that there is a need to change any AT at this point in order to make it the-favour-of-the-month.

We already know what the most played ATs in the game are - perhaps if changes need to be made -, it is those ATs that need to be changed so that they aren't picked to be played by players as often? (which doesn't make any sense to me either - though I do feel that tanks were given the ability to do more damage simply to make the player-base happy and had nothing to do with game balance.)

 

Sometimes things need to be left well enough alone.

 

I don't cap my characters at level 49. If there's older content I want to play I just go back and play it. You might as well cap your characters at level 6 or level 15 or the level of any other missions you want to play. This entire argument seems like it's basically just "Sentinels should be a weaker AT." I think their current role is fine but I just want to see the numbers buffed and their inherent tweaked or replaced entirely. I don't think everything in the game necessarily has to work, some sets will probably always have problems like Electric/Energy Dominator, but those are like, specific combinations of sets that are otherwise completely playable. You can still make a dominator using nothing but energy damage just on that class as long as it isn't those two sets. People tell you not to use certain combinations of sets on brutes too, like if you're using a melee with a commonly-resisted damage type or that's single-target you need to use a damaging armor set that isn't the same damage type that has AoEs, and that actually covers a lot more combinations you can't do than Electric/Energy on Dominator, which is just two sets.

 

On Sentinel they probably just need to adjust the stats and let Sentinels have snipes since Blasters get them, Dominators get them, Stalkers get them, and even Scrappers get them. The problem right now is Blasters don't solely get melee attacks from their secondaries and Blasters also get armor, just not as much. If you're doing Ninjutsu on a Sentinel you might as well just play a Stalker and use the snipes or on a Brute and get Psionic Tornado or whatever your favorite AoE attacks are, plus maybe also the ones from Sorcery/Experimentation/Force of Will. A ranged class that can nuke and snipe but needs to wait around a lot so it has armor to encase or hide itself is actually a really coherent idea! The problem is Sentinels are just too nerfed in their current form to do that effectively. That really does just make it seem like Dominators do their role better since Dominators have to lock everything down and then do damage with nukes, and Dominators can get all sorts of armor from things that aren't their primary or secondary. I do think we have a coherent class role for Sentinels but they aren't good at it, so people just use them as a training wheels version of other classes. I've made three Sentinels and wanted to like them, they just feel like they aren't good at their role, and if you try to make them good at a different role they're still nerfed but there's an actual different class you can play instead. I don't like playing Corruptors or Scrappers among other classes, but like, Corruptors and Scrappers are still good. If Sentinel is like a nuke class and they have armor because all their damage is in the nukes, that sounds like it should be fun, and the inherent +Perception makes it sound like they should be much more strategic than Blasters or Scrappers, but they don't work out that way.

 

By the way, I do actually care about +Perception a lot and I've taken powers including Tactics just to get more perception. I'm actually annoyed that a lot of controller and dominator powersets don't come with more +Perception and the only way to get to max perception reliably is to either use consumables or Mace Mastery. Like, can't any of the psychic armors or dark armors on Epic Pools come with more +Perception since I think characters leaning into psi and/or darkness would really want to maximize perception? As of now, I have a Mind Control/Psionic Assault/Psionic Mastery Dominator and none of those come with increased Perception. Playing a psychic without increased Perception feels kind of annoying, the only perception increases are the stuff like Tactics. So yeah I actually like increases to Perception a lot. Most of them also come with +ToHit and I like that too, makes it easier to play strategically with CC, debuffs, or even just well-timed nukes like what Sentinel seems to want to focus around. So the problems with Sentinel are probably actually related to the problems with +Perception, since the idea people would play super strategically seems to be overlooked itself in many ways. 

 

 

[tidge]

In my experience: multiple Sentinels on a team simply increases the chances that ONE of them will remember they have Vulnerability to use.

[UltraAlt]

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

I don't cap my characters at level 49.

 

We all play the way we enjoy playing.

I'm stating how I play for reference to my views on the game.

Many players do not provide this information.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

You might as well cap your characters at level 6 or level 15 or the level of any other missions you want to play.

 

For some of my characters I definitely do this.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

This entire argument seems like it's basically just "Sentinels should be a weaker AT."

 

Well, I'm not saying it should be made weaker. I'm saying it is fine as it is.

There is a difference.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

I don't think everything in the game necessarily has to work, some sets will probably always have problems like Electric/Energy Dominator, but those are like, specific combinations of sets that are otherwise completely playable. You can still make a dominator using nothing but energy damage just on that class as long as it isn't those two sets.

 

Sounds like a challenge. Maybe I'll make one of these.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

People tell you not to use certain combinations of sets

 

Yes. "some" people do that in general.

I get that "what the cool kids are doing" from people as well. And I say back "What "cool kids" exactly?"

I say take whomever's post with a grain of salt and explore the game yourself.

There are really no diehard rules other than the constraints of the games mechanics and, hopefully, what you find to be fun to do in the game environment.

 

If someone that has the goal to "beat the game", enjoy the genre, be a part of a supergroup, run in PuGs, hang out with old friends, stand around RPG'ing, build bases, and/or a bunch of other stuff in any combination is going to approach the game and play it differently than someone that mildy tweaks any of that.

 

You can explore the game yourself and/or explore the game with various levels of assistance from other players.

Just because something works for you, doesn't necessarily mean it works for others.

If you feel like a cookie-cutter build is good for you, then that is good for you.

If you only want to play level 50's, then that is good for you.

Just because the game doesn't seem to work for you in some situations doesn't mean that it doesn't work in the same situation for others (due to a variety of reasons).

 

And even if a set is difficult to play, doesn't mean that some players don't like the challenge of playing it.

And even if a AT/sets combo doesn't work to outshine other AT/sets combos in the end-game doesn't it has issues in the game. Making a change to an AT/sets for end-game content only is different than tweaking it for the game experience.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

On Sentinel they probably just need to adjust the stats

 

I see no reason for them to adjust the STATs.

I have made that clear.

It is my opinion. You have yours.

 

I'm fine with how much damage sentinels do related to their survivability. 

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

The problem right now is Blasters don't solely get melee attacks from their secondaries and Blasters also get armor, just not as much.

 

Maybe in one power and none in some blaster secondaries.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

let Sentinels have snipes since Blasters get them, Dominators get them, Stalkers get them, and even Scrappers get them.

 

Stalkers and Scrappers do not get "snipes".

But I know that it is a semantics thing and that you are implying that the ability to do crits is the same as a snipe.

Scrapers can do crits while they are in combat and a traditional snipe isn't a true snipe if it is used in combat.

So maybe you have an issue with that too.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

If you're doing Ninjutsu on a Sentinel you might as well

 

Wow. You know this game is about exploring the comic book genre, correct?

 

I have a good deal of fun playing an Assault rifle/Ninjitsu Sentinel.

It is entirely different from playing a ?/Ninjitsu character.

 

I'm a character conception player.

I'm not a "beat the game" player.

Of course, there is a thematic reason to play one set over another.

 

That's fine if you and others want to chase the numbers.

I learned along time ago that you are either having fun doing something or if your goal is only to find some optimal path to the "easy way".

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

A ranged class that can nuke and snipe but needs to wait around a lot so it has armor to encase or hide itself is actually a really coherent idea!

 

Okay. It that would be fun for you, create a new AT.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

The problem is Sentinels are just too nerfed in their current form to do that effectively.

 

Sentinels are not nerfed.

They are fine.

If you don't like playing them, play some other AT.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

I do think we have a coherent class role for Sentinels but they aren't good at it, so people just use them as a training wheels version of other classes.

 

Okay. That's your opinion.

You don't have to play them.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

If Sentinel is like a nuke class and they have armor because all their damage is in the nukes, that sounds like it should be fun, and the inherent +Perception makes it sound like they should be much more strategic than Blasters or Scrappers, but they don't work out that way.

 

Yeah, but that isn't what the Sentinel class is.

If you don't want to pay to the strength of an AT and use tactics that make use of their strengths, then that is on the player mindset and not the AT.

Sounds like it comes down to playstyle and you want to adapt the AT to your playstyle rather than to adapt to the playstyle intended for the set.

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

I'm actually annoyed that a lot of controller and dominator powersets don't come with more +Perception and the only way to get to max perception reliably is to either use consumables or Mace Mastery.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Rectified_Reticle:_Increased_Perception

 

11 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

Like, can't any of the psychic armors or dark armors on Epic Pools come with more +Perception since I think characters leaning into psi and/or darkness would really want to maximize perception?

 

Why would the "armor" come with more perception?

If this was added, why wouldn't it be in the attacks?

Are you thinking of "armor" being more of a Spidey-sense that generally come with some kind of +def? (which is more generally "there is something wrong" than actually knowing where that "something wrong" is actually located/coming from).

 

I can see how psychics should be able to sense the presence of other minds - so like no bonus perception toward machines, zombies, and probably spirits/ghosts.

I could only see dark getting some perception of spirits/ghosts, undead, vampires, and maybe werewolves. 

 

I am not sure how the perception is written into the game, I am not sure if it can differentiate between different target types or how complicated it would be to add this.

 

12 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

By the way, I do actually care about +Perception a lot and I've taken powers including Tactics just to get more perception. I'm actually annoyed that a lot of controller and dominator powersets don't come with more +Perception and the only way to get to max perception reliably is to either use consumables or Mace Mastery. Like, can't any of the psychic armors or dark armors on Epic Pools come with more +Perception since I think characters leaning into psi and/or darkness would really want to maximize perception? As of now, I have a Mind Control/Psionic Assault/Psionic Mastery Dominator and none of those come with increased Perception. Playing a psychic without increased Perception feels kind of annoying, the only perception increases are the stuff like Tactics. So yeah I actually like increases to Perception a lot. Most of them also come with +ToHit and I like that too, makes it easier to play strategically with CC, debuffs, or even just well-timed nukes like what Sentinel seems to want to focus around. So the problems with Sentinel are probably actually related to the problems with +Perception, since the idea people would play super strategically seems to be overlooked itself in many ways. 

 

All of this is another suggestion that should have its own thread.

Please post one if you think that this should be discussed so it isn't lost-in-the-shuffle.

[Psi-bolt]

So, I kinda stayed out of this thread because......

 

 

But reading the responses, I just wanted to note that Sentinels don't really need anything to be fun.   Personally, I play my Sentinels when I want to veg out and just shoot stuff.   There is not a more relaxing AT in the game.   Range is a BIG benefit to survivability and having an armor secondary on top of that means you basically don't have to worry about dying ever.  The damage is lower.  As it should be.  You're playing a VERY low risk AT.

 

All that said, if we're looking for buffs, I would lean into a semi-support role.  The word Sentinel means loosely a guard, one who stands watch.   What if, as part of the Sentinel "inherent" their Status protection power had a small AoE buff to status protection.  Like if the Sentinel gets 8 MAG protection, the AoE buff would be 3.  More for flavor than anything else, but you could act as a bodyguard, a sentinel if you will over your squishy ranged buddies.   

[UltraAlt]

14 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

ome sets will probably always have problems like Electric/Energy Dominator

 

I went and looked. I already have one of these.

I don't see the issue.

[Riverdusk]

8 hours ago, tidge said:

In my experience: multiple Sentinels on a team simply increases the chances that ONE of them will remember they have Vulnerability to use.

 

Too true.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I think Sentinels are in a great spot now and I wouldn't change anything except maybe boost the range of their powers a bit. I think the real problem with Sentinels isn't their performance, but the lack of set IOs that benefit them.

 

A Blaster can use set IOs to get their Defense to the soft-cap, which makes them nearly as tough as a Sentinel, but a Sentinel cannot use set IOs to get their damage up to Blaster levels. If there were more options for Sentinels to increase their range and damage then they would essentially be on par with Blasters once they're kitted out.

[Psyonico]

Now I want to see how much +dam I can build on a sentinel.

[srmalloy]

On 10/14/2025 at 11:00 AM, UltraAlt said:

Personally, I have 3 50's. I don't plan on leveling any more character to level 50. Level 49 is my cap. I don't care for the incarnate system. I don't think it is fair to make level 50's immune from the renaming system simply because they are level 50's. I don't enjoy the end-game as much as the game itself. 

If you don't do anything with the shards/threads that drop after your Alpha slot opens, your 50 is just a level higher than 49s — and you can slot the purple enhancements. Just ignore the incarnate slots and boosts, and play your character with just enhancements.