page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Bio Armor Adjustments

[Captain Powerhouse]

On 12/8/2025 at 5:19 AM, aethereal said:

Regardless of overall power level, I think it's a real shame to get rid of the differentiated effects of hitting living and dead targets with DNA Siphon.

 

 

It was not, or at least was not intended to.

The goal of that change is you can opt to go for full regeneration if in Efficient adaptation, full heal in defensive, and the regular living/corpse mode if in neither.

This was meant to give players more control but I have zero issues rolling that back.

[Uun]

22 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

It was not, or at least was not intended to.

The goal of that change is you can opt to go for full regeneration if in Efficient adaptation, full heal in defensive, and the regular living/corpse mode if in neither.

This was meant to give players more control but I have zero issues rolling that back.

As noted in my previous post, the changes to DNA Siphon (with respect to what it does in each adaptation) and Inexhaustible are problematic and work against each other. These really need to be rolled back. I have no issue with DNA Siphon having Adaptive Recharge. I need to do further testing of the heal per target, but I'm not conceptually against the first target providing more healing.

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

It was not, or at least was not intended to.

The goal of that change is you can opt to go for full regeneration if in Efficient adaptation, full heal in defensive, and the regular living/corpse mode if in neither.

This was meant to give players more control but I have zero issues rolling that back.

 

Okay, so first:  I misread the patch notes and didn't understand this, that was my bad, thanks for clarifying.

 

Second:  So my frame of mind going into this is that the old behavior is the most desirable, and that the efficient and defensive modes are (almost?) always less advantageous.  My experience with using the three clickies of Bio (none of them proc-bombed, so all of them used defensively) is that it works like this: You go into a mob, hit an AoE or two, and fire off Parasitic Aura.  This gives you enough absorb to stay alive long enough to kill most of the minions, at which point you hit DNA Siphon, which on a mix of alive and dead mobs refuels your health and endurance up to full, and then gives you a buffer of regen/recovery to handle killing everything left besides the bosses, and the bosses alone you probably don't need more than your resists/defenses to survive.  You use Ablative Carapace as-needed to cover any gaps where, for example, a more resilient mob survives longer than usual or you pull extra aggro or whatever.

 

So my experience is that using DNA Siphon just as a heal would overfill you and mostly be a waste, while using it purely for regen/recovery might leave you in a somewhat perilous situation where against harder opponents you want that buffer of a full health bar while you clear people down.  Indeed, I started using DNA Siphon the way I described above because I realized that as I was previously using it (at the beginning of a spawn), it was much less effective.  That said, this is just my guess, I haven't tested the Beta build.

 

I'm wondering at intentions here.  Is the thought that there are reasonably common situations where you're supposed to want the Defensive or Efficient versions of the power, or is it supposed to be a downside of the Defensive and Efficient mode?

[Maelwys]

10 hours ago, aethereal said:

So my experience is that using DNA Siphon just as a heal would overfill you and mostly be a waste, while using it purely for regen/recovery might leave you in a somewhat perilous situation where against harder opponents you want that buffer of a full health bar while you clear people down.  Indeed, I started using DNA Siphon the way I described above because I realized that as I was previously using it (at the beginning of a spawn), it was much less effective.  That said, this is just my guess, I haven't tested the Beta build.

 

I'm wondering at intentions here.  Is the thought that there are reasonably common situations where you're supposed to want the Defensive or Efficient versions of the power, or is it supposed to be a downside of the Defensive and Efficient mode?

My own experience on Live with DNA Siphon is that versus regular mobs the persistent +Regeneration is usually more valuable than the Spike Healing.

However its target cap is only 10 and it doesn't have any preference between "dead foes" and "alive foes" whenever it's choosing those 10 targets - it goes purely by proximity.
So on Live I typically won't trigger DNA Siphon until the mob I'm fighting is entirely dead; in order to gain the most +Regen possible (and as mentioned previously, I aim to keep DNA Siphon's Regeneration buff up pretty much constantly alongside the buff from Ablative Carapace; holding Parasitic Aura in reserve as my "emergency button").

I virtually always run in Offensive Mode; so the changes to DNA Siphon's target processing on Open Beta don't really affect me.
However it kinda-sorta makes sense in my head that if I was to be under so much pressure as to drop into Defensive mode, then I'd probably prefer DNA Siphon to function as more of a reactive "Heal me up right now" button regardless of how many of the enemies immediately around me happen to be dead.
Which leaves one of the other two modes with the proactive "Give me +Regeneration over time" option, regardless of how many of the enemies around me happen to be alive.

- - - - - - - - - -

That said... in Offensive Mode my Tank's DNA Siphon maximum +Regen has dropped from 10*5.55=+55.5HP/Sec (Live) to 5.55+(9*1.66)=+20.49HP/Sec (Test)
Since I can keep it up constantly (with enough investment and effort) and my regular passive regen is only 39.66HP/Sec, that's a very notable performance drop.
Even maxed out it's now giving less +Regen than Ablative Carapace does (+20.49HP/Sec from DNA Siphon compared to +23.99HP/Sec from Ablative Carapace)
The upshot is that my Bio Tanker is capping out at ~84.14HP/Sec now (with both Ablative Carapace and maxxed-out DNA Siphon) instead of ~119.15HP/Sec.

In fairness it's a very powerful toon and I was fully expecting Bio Armor to get toned down, but a 63.1% reduction in DNA Siphon's regeneration still smarts a bit.
(At least in a single prolonged fight versus a single alive foe once the recharge rate bugfix goes in it's going to be producing a little more healing over time, I guess...)

- - - - - - - - - -

Also it seems ONLY THE VERY FIRST TARGET AFFECTED IS GETTING THE FULL EFFECT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THAT TARGET IS ALIVE OR DEAD.

In other words, if you're in offensive mode with 2+ targets around you, some of which are dead and some of which are alive, then you won't get Full Heal for the first "alive" target and Full Regeneration for the first "dead" one. Which is a right PITA.

The line in the patch notes alludes to this, but it's worth pointing out the headaches it can cause for anyone who typically activates DNA Siphon in the middle of a fight.

Quote

• First (closest) target will apply the full effect; subsequent targets will yield 30% of its effects

You can see this in the below screenshot - whenever I triggered DNA Siphon (in Offensive mode) my Tanker had three mobs around them, one of which was dead.
I get "Full Healing", "Reduced Healing" and "Reduced Regeneration" rather than "Full Healing", "Reduced Healing" and "Full Regeneration".
Presumably because the closest target at the time of activation happened to be one of the foes which was currently "alive".


I'd much prefer for the Healing and +Regeneration effects of DNA Siphon to be independently calculated here.

However even if it's not feasible for those two effects to have separate target caps, if the first target for each effect could give the full unreduced magnitude (so that in the thick of combat I'm not having to try and make pixel-perfect positioning adjustments!) it'd be much appreciated.
 

Edited 21 hours ago by Maelwys

[Uun]

I normally run in Offensive mode, however, the changes to Inexhaustible make end drain resistance available only in Efficient mode. As I was fighting Arachnos (on beta), I switched to Efficient mode to protect against end drain from the Mu Adepts. In Offensive mode there is no longer any end drain protection and I quickly got end drained and toggle dropped. In Efficient mode there is no way to heal back spike damage (i.e., from Bane Spiders) other than inspirations. 

[Coyote]

On 12/8/2025 at 10:25 AM, arcane said:

Sir yes sir! Everyone must be able to solo everything with zero difficulty or the powers team is terrible, sir! Everybody be excellent and have a happy Monday, sir!

 

I just want to solo this thread.
With zero difficulty.
😜

[Nathic69]

These nerfs feel overly harsh when the only thing bio has going for it compared to other sets is its offensive capability and thats the only thing that should get "slightly" tuned down but everything else should remain the same. Its one of my favorite armor sets and i'd rather the whole offensive capability get nerfed or removed than the set itself get nerfed

[Sovera]

3 minutes ago, Nathic69 said:

These nerfs feel overly harsh when the only thing bio has going for it compared to other sets is its offensive capability and thats the only thing that should get "slightly" tuned down but everything else should remain the same. Its one of my favorite armor sets and i'd rather the whole offensive capability get nerfed or removed than the set itself get nerfed

 

Pretty much. I have no feedback other than this. No one takes Bio because it's amazing (that's Stone Armor). They take it because it's an extra layer to do extra damage. Nerfing the extra damage and then also the armor itself is an odd choice.

[ScarySai]

I'd personally go the other way. We have an abundance of sets that turn you into an immovable wall, and only two real glass cannon options.

 

Can't ignore the taunt aura for scrappers that Bio offers, either.

[Championess]

On my bio scrapper I never come out of offensive mode and take DNA Siphon and proc the hell out of it.  I use it to tank some 4stars and my assault isn't Battle Axe so I have room and want for another good aoe filler even if I do leave the recharge at that 90s and ride my global recharge to ensure procs fire to maximum effect.  With all of those targets beyond the damage the dual aspect it acts as a great heal and regen boost which is why it kind of confuzzles me why tryhards skip it but whatever.  With adaptive recharge it'll floor the proc rates and having to swap to the various stances to now get at least a good portion heal would be a detriment.  I'm sure some of those testing Bio in CB didn't care what happened with DNA as it was already a skip for them.

 

That's as truthful of a synopsis I can give.  I'm fine with Bio being taken down a peg so long as its being left a viable top 5 option for people with some skill playing it.  Which from the changes I don't see any reason Bio won't still be a great set to play if at least its offensive feel is intact.  I guess my only questioning was seeing DNA getting the harshest whack although its contentiously a skipped power for some on high end content.

[ScarySai]

The harshest nerf was parasitic. Though I do think adaptive is unwarranted for DNA siphon. Using adaptive just to take care of proc bombs is lazy and inconsistent at best.

 

DNA siphon as it works on live servers is mechanically superior and these changes aren't just a nerf, but make the mechanics of the set objectively worse. There was no need to complicate the process of "alive enemy =heal+damage, dead enemy =regen+recovery".

 

It's like they committed to nerfing bio well before the other armor changes, but now that its happened, it doesn't make sense to do it anymore, but the sunk cost fallacy is kicking in.

Edited 14 hours ago by ScarySai

[arcane]

17 minutes ago, Championess said:

On my bio scrapper I never come out of offensive mode and take DNA Siphon and proc the hell out of it.  I use it to tank some 4stars and my assault isn't Battle Axe so I have room and want for another good aoe filler even if I do leave the recharge at that 90s and ride my global recharge to ensure procs fire to maximum effect.  With all of those targets beyond the damage the dual aspect it acts as a great heal and regen boost which is why it kind of confuzzles me why tryhards skip it but whatever.  With adaptive recharge it'll floor the proc rates and having to swap to the various stances to now get at least a good portion heal would be a detriment.  I'm sure some of those testing Bio in CB didn't care what happened with DNA as it was already a skip for them.

 

That's as truthful of a synopsis I can give.  I'm fine with Bio being taken down a peg so long as its being left a viable top 5 option for people with some skill playing it.  Which from the changes I don't see any reason Bio won't still be a great set to play if at least its offensive feel is intact.  I guess my only questioning was seeing DNA getting the harshest whack although its contentiously a skipped power for some on high end content.

I’ve already seen lots of 4 star Bio setups skipping DNA Siphon on live, but I always resisted due to the proc damage. So this change just makes me feel free to skip it entirely. Which I don’t totally mind - Bio builds are tight.

[VPrime]

On 12/5/2025 at 5:34 PM, The Curator said:

Inexhaustible

• -Recharge Resistance now only applies in Defensive Adaptation
• End Drain Resistance now only applies in Efficient Adaptation
• Movement Resistance now only applies in Offensive Adaptation

 

 

I can't comment on any of the other changes...but can you please revert this change?

 

Bio should get all those resistances regardless of what adaptation they are using.

[VPrime]

Just to further my previous post about Inexhaustible...

 

The latest Regeneration changes gave all those resistances to Ailment.

 

 

Revive > Ailment Resistance 

 

Converted this power to Ailment Resistance.

This power is now an auto power.

Grants a 24% MaxHP buff, half enhanceable.

Grants -15% resistance to heals (making all heals on you 15% stronger).

Grants 20% resistance to -Defense, -Endurance, -Speed, -Regeneration, -Recovery, -Recharge, -Range and -ToHit.

Power no longer accepts endurance or recharge enhancements.

[VPrime]

Is the -13.33% resistance and -6.66% Defense in Offensive Adaptation working as intended?

Edited 10 hours ago by VPrime

[Maelwys]

45 minutes ago, VPrime said:

Is the -13.33% resistance and -6.66% Defense in Offensive Adaptation working as intended?

 

No.

 

The Scrapper version is currently the only one with the proper value.

It's already been flagged up to the Devs and fixed internally.

 

[Onlyasandwich]

6 hours ago, VPrime said:

Bio should get all those resistances regardless of what adaptation they are using.

It's especially annoying because the set bonuses for slow res are movement plus recharge, so I either have to double down and waste half my set bonus to cap out, or just deal with one of these values being lower.

[arcane]

11 hours ago, VPrime said:

Just to further my previous post about Inexhaustible...

 

The latest Regeneration changes gave all those resistances to Ailment.

 

 

Revive > Ailment Resistance 

 

Converted this power to Ailment Resistance.

This power is now an auto power.

Grants a 24% MaxHP buff, half enhanceable.

Grants -15% resistance to heals (making all heals on you 15% stronger).

Grants 20% resistance to -Defense, -Endurance, -Speed, -Regeneration, -Recovery, -Recharge, -Range and -ToHit.

Power no longer accepts endurance or recharge enhancements.

The big difference you didn’t mention: powers are balanced in the context of the powerset overall. And before the changes you mentioned, Regen was the undisputed worst armor powerset in the game. And before the potential changes we’re discussing now, Bio Armor is the undisputed best armor powerset in the game. So kind of apples and oranges, night and day, etc.

[Troo]

Good fun seeing folks drag the Regeneration teardown, stomp, and "reimagining" as a good example while not realizing.. that's kind of exactly what's happening here.

 

Folks cheered for it then, and they will eat it here. Hint: 'It' probably doesn't taste good.

 

 

Being able to quickly swap Adaptations functionally works.

That would be a pretty cool mechanic for a new powerset that focused on adapting to situations.  ⬅️Better than having to relearn 'the precious'.. maybe?