Can we NOT have GMs spawn on solo players?

[VioLight]

I haven't had a bunch of time to play games this holiday season, so when I finally got on to do some, I was trying to grab presents (of course.) I ran across a large one and suddenly had a GM and much bigger spawn drop on me. I am not interested in or built for solo Giant Monster killing and got killed pretty fast by a much bigger mob than I can handle.  And as I came out of the hospital, there was another one of these giant ones sitting there waiting. 

 

Can we maybe not do this? It's really kind of ruined my bit of COH fun with this event. No, I didn't want to sit around and try to hunt down a team especially at this time of night, and I didn't want to leave them for someone else to run across and get killed by. Last year I think they were only showing up depending on your team size or setting, which was much better.

[lemming]

The larger presents are the only ones that spawn a GM this year.

[Rudra]

There are two kinds of presents starting with the winter event this year. If you don't want to spawn a Winter Lord and his support, then don't grab the Suspicious Package. Like @lemming said, that is the large grey and white present. Grab any of the small colorful presents and you won't get a Winter Lord.

[tidge]

Those Winter Lords despawn after 15(?) minutes so they shouldn't pose much of a hazard to other players.

[Greycat]

Which would probably be better presented (heh) in game. I don't remember any sort of - anything? in game saying that. Maybe having the first one someone tries to open warn "this will spawn a Winter Lord GM and horde, are you sure you want to open it?" would be a good idea. Especially after having been "trained," as it were, from prior years about how winter lords spawned.

 

Sure, it ruins the... "surprise," but not all surprises are good. 

 

I do know the mention I've seen of it in game by other players tends to simply be "Hey, Suspicious Gift in (zone) at (loc,) grab it if you want your badge." If that's all someone sees? Getting a surprise WL and horde they can't handle would be unpleasant. 

[srmalloy]

9 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Which would probably be better presented (heh) in game. I don't remember any sort of - anything? in game saying that.

You mean like, say... explicitly called out in the patch notes? 

• The Winter Lord is no longer a random spawn from a Mysterious Gift.
• Instead, a large Suspicious Gift can appear which is guaranteed to spawn Winter Lord.

[Greycat]

13 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

You mean like, say... explicitly called out in the patch notes? 

• The Winter Lord is no longer a random spawn from a Mysterious Gift.
• Instead, a large Suspicious Gift can appear which is guaranteed to spawn Winter Lord.

 

And how many players do you think read the patch notes before each and every play session? I'm a *more* than experienced player and I sure as hell don't.

 

How many players visit the forums? Or Discord? I know while I'm on Discord, I almost never look in there. (And Discord is NOT a good support resource.) I *know* you know full well it's only a small number of players. 

 

7 hours ago, VioLight said:

I haven't had a bunch of time to play games this holiday season, so when I finally got on to do some, I was trying to grab presents (of course.) I ran across a large one and suddenly had a GM and much bigger spawn drop on me.

 

 

Sounds like they just hopped on in some time they had to play, which is probably more in line with "I finally had time" versus "yay, I went scouring for patch notes!" 

 

It appears these were in December 1 patch notes. Know what doesn't appear in the launcher you see on every single game launch? That there are *any* patch notes for december 1. Or that "Hey, the Suspicious Gift will spawn a Winter Lord and grant a badge."  We have October - "Dobule XP enabled!," November 28 "Issue x page y is live!" (note this is before that change,) and dec 16 "Post release update" which "brings a number of tweaks." Note that's after Dec 1. Nothing about "Winter Lord spawning has changed."

 

Do YOU go check the patch notes whenever you're about to play the game? Every game you play, every single time, especially if you don't have a bunch of time to play? I kind of doubt it, so that's not really anything but a smug middle finger to the OP.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 01:56 PM by Greycat

[Ghost]

14 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

And how many players do you think read the patch notes before each and every play session? I'm a *more* than experienced player and I sure as hell don't.

 

How many players visit the forums? Or Discord? I know while I'm on Discord, I almost never look in there. (And Discord is NOT a good support resource.) I *know* you know full well it's only a small number of players. 

 

 

Sounds like they just hopped on in some time they had to play, which is probably more in line with "I finally had time" versus "yay, I went scouring for patch notes!" 

 

It appears these were in December 1 patch notes. Know what doesn't appear in the launcher you see on every single game launch? That there are *any* patch notes for december 1. Or that "Hey, the Suspicious Gift will spawn a Winter Lord and grant a badge."  We have October - "Dobule XP enabled!," November 28 "Issue x page y is live!" (note this is before that change,) and dec 16 "Post release update" which "brings a number of tweaks." Note that's after Dec 1. Nothing about "Winter Lord spawning has changed."

 

Do YOU go check the patch notes whenever you're about to play the game? Every game you play, every single time, especially if you don't have a bunch of time to play? I kind of doubt it, so that's not really anything but a smug middle finger to the OP.  

 

 

 

 

 

So whose fault is it when someone doesn't read the patch notes?

Isn't there a pop up after an update directing you to read the notes?  I know there's one on the splash screen before I launch the game.

 

At some point players need to take responsibility for their willfull ignorance.

 

[arcane]

You died once, you learned a lesson, and you should even have a new badge for your efforts. Think we are going to be okay!

[Greycat]

10 minutes ago, Ghost said:

So whose fault is it when someone doesn't read the patch notes?

 

Again, how many people do you think *actually do?* Especially when no mention of a change is made in the launcher? There are *no* mention of Dec. 1 patch notes in the launcher, which is when this change was made, and it sounds like they came on with (it's the holidays, so probably understandably) limited time. Does that sound like "Oh, reading patch notes is what I want to do right now!" time?

 

"Patch notes" might as well be "Side mention made at 2 AM on a college radio station" for all the attention they get, especially when something like this isn't mentioned in the launcher. And a change to WL spawns like this should *at least* have deserved mention there, if nothing else. 

 

12 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Isn't there a pop up after an update directing you to read the notes?  I know there's one on the splash screen before I launch the game.

 

Which also tells you to read the TOS and EULA. do you do that before every single play session? 

 

And if there was a popup - hell if I remember seeing one - given it would be at the same time the winter "stuff" was turned on, what would indicate to anyone to expect more than "The winter event's on, same as last year?" 

 

[Greycat]

6 minutes ago, arcane said:

You died once, you learned a lesson, and you should even have a new badge for your efforts. Think we are going to be okay!

 

"F you noob lulz u gotz bage." Best MMO community, wasn't it... 

 

7 hours ago, VioLight said:

Can we maybe not do this? It's really kind of ruined my bit of COH fun with this event. 

 

If "Okay" means "Yep, this bit you were enjoying, you no longer do" then mission accomplished, it sounds like. That what you're after? 

[Burk]

Ignoring the whole "read the patch notes" debate, the point really is that the Winter Lord should spawn off to the side a bit. It shouldn't spawn right on the present where the player is. Especially when the Winter Lord has a pretty intense slow aura that prevents squishies from escaping easily.

[arcane]

18 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

"F you noob lulz u gotz bage." Best MMO community, wasn't it... 

 

 

If "Okay" means "Yep, this bit you were enjoying, you no longer do" then mission accomplished, it sounds like. That what you're after? 

If you’re trying to shame players for thinking there has to be some threshold at which thin skin is a little too thin, I don’t find that to be very compelling. A month of fun ruined by one death? I don’t think you’ll get far in this game with that attitude. IMO my prescription of “it happens” is more helpful to the OP than your “how dare you”.

Edited Thursday at 03:05 PM by arcane

[Bionic_Flea]

I agree that it is pretty shocking and deadly to open a present and then be suddenly surrounded by snowmen, including a giant one.  It would be better if they spawned at least a few feet further away.

 

I also agree that the game should have explained all that better.  Maybe with a popup, maybe in the GMOTD, not sure what would be best, but I guarantee that whatever was done several people would still not have read it for one reason or another and still been killed by a Snow dude.

 

I further agree that it's not a huge deal to die and get a new badge (and learn not to click on those white boxes if not ready), but it could have been done a little better.

[Skyhawke]

Maybe make the Winter Lord and his gang spawn as intangible and unaggroed for maybe 5 seconds? Plenty of time to haul butt if needed and short enough a time that if someone is WL hunting, you won't waste a bunch of attacks on it for nothing.

[Luminara]

Suspicious Gift.

 

It says Suspicious in the name.

 

And people aren't suspicious of it?

 

Well... I guess that's good news for that Nigerian prince who's looking for someone to give his fortune to.

[tidge]

[Ghost]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Again, how many people do you think *actually do?* Especially when no mention of a change is made in the launcher? There are *no* mention of Dec. 1 patch notes in the launcher, which is when this change was made, and it sounds like they came on with (it's the holidays, so probably understandably) limited time. Does that sound like "Oh, reading patch notes is what I want to do right now!" time?

 

"Patch notes" might as well be "Side mention made at 2 AM on a college radio station" for all the attention they get, especially when something like this isn't mentioned in the launcher. And a change to WL spawns like this should *at least* have deserved mention there, if nothing else. 

 

 

Which also tells you to read the TOS and EULA. do you do that before every single play session? 

 

And if there was a popup - hell if I remember seeing one - given it would be at the same time the winter "stuff" was turned on, what would indicate to anyone to expect more than "The winter event's on, same as last year?" 

 

Hmm.  Patch notes?  Something has changed?

Should I find out what? Naaaaaah.  

 

Oh crap, I just died because of something they changed!   NOT FAIR!

 

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Burk said:

Ignoring the whole "read the patch notes" debate, the point really is that the Winter Lord should spawn off to the side a bit. It shouldn't spawn right on the present where the player is. Especially when the Winter Lord has a pretty intense slow aura that prevents squishies from escaping easily.

That's a good point.  I got stuck in a foot (or maybe just slowed a lot). 

 

And another thought: Any device blasters see how many trip mines it takes?

[Luminara]

33 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

[srmalloy]

52 minutes ago, lemming said:

And another thought: Any device blasters see how many trip mines it takes?

Not a blaster, but I was curious, and with my Grav/Traps controller, six trip mines, three poison gas traps, and a time bomb were insufficient. 

[Rudra]

Sorry @Greycat, but I have to disagree with you on this one. The Suspicious Package is already different from every other present in the game by its size and color. It already stood out to me as being different before I even read the patch notes. (I went back and read the patch notes when I spawned a Winter Lord and died.) Unlike other presents, it also has the unique identifier of "Suspicious Package". Sure, players may not read the patch notes, but it is an obviously different style present.

 

Edit: There is also the consideration that the author stated in the OP that (s)he/they is/are an experienced player. (S)he/they has played the winter event before. And previous years would spawn a Winter Lord from any present once 100 presents were opened. So the author should have already known the possibility of spawning a Winter Lord on his/her/their character's head from interacting with presents. This year, it is just one specific, obviously different present.

 

Edited Thursday at 06:31 PM by Rudra
Edited to correct "a" to "an".

[lemming]

10 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Not a blaster, but I was curious, and with my Grav/Traps controller, six trip mines, three poison gas traps, and a time bomb were insufficient. 

Just tested with two device blasters and ~30 trip mines. Cleared all the adds, but only made a small dent in the Winter Lord.

Gah, only one of the chars Trip Mines had any effect, I got out of the effective radius.  I hate that when it happens.  Will have to do another test.

 

So looking at the logs, 17 hits dented him, but since the damage didn't get logged, I can only guesstimate about 10% and the other blaster would probably have done the same.

Edited Thursday at 06:34 PM by lemming
down with comercialization

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Sorry @Greycat, but I have to disagree with you on this one. The Suspicious Package is already different from every other present in the game by its size and color. It already stood out to me as being different before I even read the patch notes. (I went back and read the patch notes when I spawned a Winter Lord and died.) Unlike other presents, it also has the unique identifier of "Suspicious Package". Sure, players may not read the patch notes, but it is an obviously different style present.

 

 

And yet there's a *HUGE* gap between "Oh, this looks different" and "This will obviously spawn a GM and pile of adds *right on top of you.*"  What else could a suspicious package do? Drop some new winter tip to a new mission? Temp power? What in the name "Suspicious package" says "Obvious GM instaspawn?" There's plenty of "suspicious" XYZ in the game that does nothing like this. 

 

And who thought it was a good idea to have these in low-mid level zones, where even tanks, brutes, etc. do not have their full powers, decent slotting, etc?

 

Again, the most notice I see of *anything* different going on with the "suspicious package" tends to be the LFG chat saying "There's one here, grab it if you want the badge." Repeatedly. Yes, the players doing so should say "and prepare for a winter lord if you haven't done this already." Or... you know, put it in game. 

 

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

Hmm.  Patch notes?  Something has changed?

Should I find out what? Naaaaaah.  

 

Oh crap, I just died because of something they changed!   NOT FAIR!

 

Again:

- Not mentioned on the launcher, where at least there'd be an indication to check past "oh, look, it's the winter event." 

- Most changes do not result in something that's going to kill you *right now.* 

 

Oh, you know where ELSE changes can be mentioned? The GMOTD that would pop up! Maybe there's mention there... 

 

 

Nope.  Doesn't even mention the winter event starting.  So what - in something *pushed right in the character's face they have to dismiss when updated* - indicates there are patch notes, especially and specifically about winter event changes, since the last issue release that should be read?

 

Say it with me. *Nothing.* 

 

So we have someone who:

- Apparently hasn't had much time to be on and wanted to enjoy a little bit of the winter event

- Is used to just clicking presents, maybe having - I'm going to assume "a manageable" here - spawn drop, or getting a present or candy cane or whatnot. 

- Sees one that's a little weird but is otherwise another present,

- Has no warning in the GMOTD or launcher, where there's zero mention of the winter event itself, much less *any* changes to it or mention of anything past the Page 2 release (and so would not have popped up,) 

- Probably has people in LFG mentioning a badge, depending on the server.

- From the sound of it is playing solo (since they'd have to get a team together and maybe that wasn't feasable on their server at that time of night, ignoring any other situations that might keep them solo) 

 

... who has a GM and good size spawn that can hit pretty decently and slows the character drop right on top of them with no other warning. Which sounds like it was frustrating enough it "ruined the event" for them. 

 

And the main reaction is "Noob, shoulda read the patch notes," when there are NO mentions of changes to the winter event - the Dec 1 patch notes related to this *aren't even in the launcher,* where they'd be visible, and at least would give the "should have checked" crowd SOME ground to stand on, nor in the GMOTD, which if this is the first time the OP has signed in would *also* have popped up (before or after the standard "Father time needs your help" popup) to say there's something to check out. 

 

Christ. 

 

This needed to be handled MUCH better. Not have the suspicious packages in lower level zones. As otherwise mentioned, had the WL spawn off somewhere and/or on a timer, or put in a message, similar to when you enter a PVP zone, that "The Winter Lord and his horde are coming!" with, say, a ten second countdown as they rush to the area. And yes, mention IN THE LAUNCHER that EVERYONE SEES EVERY TIME that something changed, and yes, an update in the GMOTD to make sure. All things that are readily available and used elsewhere in the game.

 

Because if one person decided to come *here* and mention how it soured them on the event... wonder how many others decided not to deal with the "lulz noob" crowd and just logged off to do something else instead. 

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, Greycat said:

And yet there's a *HUGE* gap between "Oh, this looks different" and "This will obviously spawn a GM and pile of adds *right on top of you.*"  What else could a suspicious package do? Drop some new winter tip to a new mission? Temp power? What in the name "Suspicious package" says "Obvious GM instaspawn?" There's plenty of "suspicious" XYZ in the game that does nothing like this. 

 

And who thought it was a good idea to have these in low-mid level zones, where even tanks, brutes, etc. do not have their full powers, decent slotting, etc?

 

Again, the most notice I see of *anything* different going on with the "suspicious package" tends to be the LFG chat saying "There's one here, grab it if you want the badge." Repeatedly. Yes, the players doing so should say "and prepare for a winter lord if you haven't done this already." Or... you know, put it in game. 

And how much warning did anyone get about spawning a Winter Lord before this year? None. At all. He spawned from any present on the map. And he has always been available in all the zones. Just last year I was on a Winter Lord hunting team in Atlas Park because I happened to be in the zone when he spawned. You're arguing that the Suspicious Packages are detrimental, especially to low-levels in low-level zones, but he has always been spawning on low-levels even in low-level zones. What makes the Suspicious Package so egregious when the regular presents from previous years was not while doing the exact same thing? (Edit: And yes, he would spawn from the regular presents on solo players even if that character was just level 1.)

 

Edit again: Now at least we can tell other players they should leave the Suspicious Packages alone unless they want to face a Winter Lord, and those just gathering presents can go "Okay, got it. I'll just grab the brightly colored ones that aren't the size of a waiting Winter Lord then." Something we couldn't do before.

 

Another edit: For that matter, the author could have gone "Wait a minute, this present is different than previous years" and then ask in Help or Broadcast if anyone knew what was the deal with the new, over-sized, grey and blue present marked "Suspicious Package" and been warned beforehand. The author's OP very much implies previous knowledge of the event after all.

 

Edited Thursday at 09:35 PM by Rudra