Just delete Rage at this point.

[Captain Citadel]

It seems pretty clear that people fighting over any changes to the Rage crash was a significant factor in the recent proposed Super Strength changes getting pulled from the latest patch at the last minute.

Why is this power still a thing? Every other attack powerset in the game has Build Up or Aim. The set's base damage is inherently lower because of the assumption that it will always be up. Unleashed Might was a better power in almost every way, largely because of the lack of crash.

If this one power is what's holding back a full rework (and I'm not sure what else it could be, since Rage is not a weak or short-duration buff) maybe it's time we got rid of it.

If Super Strength can't feel "super" without at least one stack of perma-Rage, then Rage is a problem and needs to go.

[lemming]

Reading the note from Player-1, they're reworking their approach.  We'll see what it's like, but I assume they still want a more unique version than a buildup power.

[Psi-bolt]

I really don’t see why they didn’t revert the Rage changes and keep Unleashed Might.  It was such a good change.

[Ukase]

That's a damn shame. I liked Unchained might, and would take it over rage because of the dps I get from hand clap through unchained might. No unchained might, no handclap. 

[Psyonico]

Remember, this is the same crowd that complained last time that double stacked rage didn't get touched but single stack rage wouldn't crash.

[lemming]

5 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

I really don’t see why they didn’t revert the Rage changes and keep Unleashed Might.  It was such a good change.

From what I can tell, they wanted to look at the other powers as well.   I like UM and the bonus with Handclap, but of course, Rage didn't get anything out of the new HC either.  Maybe new Rage will make Footstomp hit unlimited targets, friend or foe.

[Biff Pow]

I would get rid of the damage and defense crash entirely and increase the endurance drop. Enough that if you run Rage and Hasten together you'll have major endurance problems because you're kind of asking for it.

[Heatstroke]

People who are actually testing are seeing things that are potential issues..  that the WHOLE POINT of testing.. to release the best possible option.. 

[kelika2]

SS base numbers are balanced around rage

to do a proper balancing we would need two super strength sets

Super Strength as we know it now

and Unleashed Strength as a new set.  higher base numbers all around and maybe shuffled around powers like having Foot Stomp at level 20

[Heatstroke]

I'll repeat. This is the whole point of testing. Pylon times have been used pretty regularly to test powers across the board for a very long period of time. Let everything play out. Obviously the Devs see have seen enough information and enough data, to want to take a longer look at it to get things within a range that its a balanced benefit for all. 

 

Rather than complain.. Test.. provide data and feedback. Always the best option.. 

 

 

[Biff Pow]

The thing about pylons and whatever is you can't quantify fun. Imagine if Rage gave you 10x damage for one minute and zero damage for one minute, that's a lot of damage but no fun. Watching for the Rage crash and for it to end, while not a big deal really, is just no fun. There's no number with that data, it's just a feeling.

[Heatstroke]

If you think that these decisions are being made by " five " people, then I really dont know what to tell you. Its like you dont think that the devs can see data, that they dont test the data themselves to validate it, and make rational decisions.. 

 

Also If you dont believe that they dont take the opinions of people based on how something feels and its not just people on the forums. Its people in the discord, it people who are part of the closed beta team, and then things go to OPEN beta to get a wide difference of opinions across the diaspora of users from the min/maxers to the casual players. 

 

Ifs got to be extremely challenging to find a middle ground that appeals to everyone.. 

 

And this is why I say.. rather than complain about the perception of others, and their influence.. Go test.. play and post YOUR results.. whether they be pylon times, or just your playing experience.. That helps more than lashing out.. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Heatstroke said:

Ifs got to be extremely challenging to find a middle ground that appeals to everyone.. 

 

It is. And wisdom is knowing when to acknowledge that sometimes the middle ground leaves everyone worse off. Especially when one side is base jumping without a parachute.

Edited yesterday at 03:30 AM by Bill Z Bubba

[biostem]

Just make 2 sets - "Super Strength" and "Superer Strength"  

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Trimmed a few posts including some that quoted hidden posts.

 

Please keep your posting to the subject at hand and not about your fellow players, even if you are absolutely convinced that they are wrong and you are right.  Argue the point, not the personalities.

[Major_Decoy]

21 minutes ago, biostem said:

Just make 2 sets - "Super Strength" and "Superer Strength"  

 

Honestly, I've thought about pitching something similar as solution before. I'd probably go with Super Strength and Raging Strength. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

Honestly, I've thought about pitching something similar as solution before. I'd probably go with Super Strength and Raging Strength. 

 

Then we'll need Savage Melee and Claws Lite Melee. And Energy Melee and More AoE Melee. And Dark Melee and More Damage Dark.

 

I get why yall are bringing it up but I find it completely unnecessary. Will purging Rage from SS tick off X% of players? Yes. Did the proposed changed tick off X% of players? Yes.

 

My very simple take is "tough noogies." Purge rage, replace it with UM, if later data mining shows SS to be underperforming after that, buff it.

[Major_Decoy]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Then we'll need Savage Melee and Claws Lite Melee. And Energy Melee and More AoE Melee. And Dark Melee and More Damage Dark.

 

I get why yall are bringing it up but I find it completely unnecessary. Will purging Rage from SS tick off X% of players? Yes. Did the proposed changed tick off X% of players? Yes.

 

My very simple take is "tough noogies." Purge rage, replace it with UM, if later data mining shows SS to be underperforming after that, buff it.

 

But if you get rid of Rage you don't necessarily need Unyielding Might. You can actually balance the Super Strength powers around the idea of "well, maybe this person won't have +70% damage 93% of the time or +140% damage 85% of the time"

 

Unyielding Might was a work around for keeping Rage.

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

But if you get rid of Rage you don't necessarily need Unyielding Might. You can actually balance the Super Strength powers around the idea of "well, maybe this person won't have +70% damage 93% of the time or +140% damage 85% of the time"

 

Unyielding Might was a work around for keeping Rage.

 

I don't disagree. I'm fine with a 100% rework of the entire set so that it's on par with other melee attack sets and uses build up. I'm ok with making Hand Clap a damaging attack for Rage and UM users.

 

I'm not ok with leaving it as is. Cuz as is farkin sucks for anyone with a defense based secondary.

[Bill Z Bubba]

And, yes, Spider-Man is a freakin SS/SR scrapper.

[Major_Decoy]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

I don't disagree. I'm fine with a 100% rework of the entire set so that it's on par with other melee attack sets and uses build up. I'm ok with making Hand Clap a damaging attack for Rage and UM users.

 

I'm not ok with leaving it as is. Cuz as is farkin sucks for anyone with a defense based secondary.

 

Oh, yeah. Raging Strength would still need balance passes, but you wouldn't be trying to balance two sets at once with the same changes.

[Biff Pow]

The power I would delete from Super Strength is Jab. It's fine as a filler attack, but just isn't fun or "super".

 

Move Punch to the first attack (with a regular punch animation), Haymaker to the second spot (with Punch's one-armed smash animation) and add "Smash" as a third power (two handed Haymaker but it's a small cone attack.) Then you can leave Handclap as no damage (it's good to have powers that some might see as skippable, for variety.)

[CoeruleumBlue]

4 hours ago, Heatstroke said:

People who are actually testing are seeing things that are potential issues..  that the WHOLE POINT of testing.. to release the best possible option.. 

 

The main problem with this forum is people don't like change at all and lots of people just want CoH to be like a time capsule to the early 2000s. I didn't pick my signature because of that, I picked my signature because it's about telepathic mutants and that's my favorite kind of comic and pulp character, but it feels more appropriate each day. 

[CoeruleumBlue]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I don't disagree. I'm fine with a 100% rework of the entire set so that it's on par with other melee attack sets and uses build up. I'm ok with making Hand Clap a damaging attack for Rage and UM users.

 

I'm not ok with leaving it as is. Cuz as is farkin sucks for anyone with a defense based secondary.

 

 

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

And, yes, Spider-Man is a freakin SS/SR scrapper.

 

Yeah sadly you can't actually build a Super Strength scrapper or a mace stalker or lots of other things that it seems like you should be able to. Super Strength is brutes and tankers only right now even though it's a terrible set for anyone who actually wants to tank due to the Rage. Right now you might as well just use Stone Melee without the hammer which seems basically indistinguishable from the proposition that we have "Super Strength and Superer Strength" anyway. But Super Strength is more like "Raging Strength" and Stone Melee is more like regular strength. Then Sonic Melee is basically also like Super Strength without the crash for people who like the hand claps, screaming at enemies, and stuff like that.

 

Sonic Melee is like the Hulk type power now or the power of a machine or monster going beserk, Stone Melee is better for a strong alien or mutant stoically lifting things over their head or slamming the ground for earthquakes, Super Strength is basically just for people who wish tanks did damage even though we already have brutes and scrappers and scrappers were always in the game and it makes them worse at tanking while still being worse at damage. 

 

Super Strength - Unofficial Homecoming Wiki

 

Ironically if I were reworking Super Strength I'd probably make it more defense-based even if that's a total 180 from what it is. We have sets like Titan Weapons, Staff Fighting, and most types of swords that have stances that give you more defense. Super Strength I think should be like that conceptually, like the superhero who uses their muscles to bounce bullets off their chest or arms, not exactly the opposite like it is now. Why on Earth did Super Strength ever have a defense and endurance debuff? So that's my opinion, rework it into some kind of stance based set like Titan Weapons or Staff Fighting but for people who want to deflect bullets off their chest instead of off their giant weapon or staff and it'll be what it was always supposed to be in my opinion. The concept seems to have been too hijacked by people wanting a set for Tankers that made them do more than 2 damage back in the early game but that wasn't good design even back then, now it just seems terrible because the concept has been totally overtaken mostly by Stone Melee, Sonic Melee, and even Martial Arts and Street Justice.

[kelika2]

One thing I hate about the city of heroes community is how they try to distance themselves from other MMOs but when it comes to balancing its all about dummytesting, or you call it pylon damage.

 

meanwhile 99.9% of the game is wading through enemies in seconds and anything worthy of "stand there and beat it up" gets more lore pets in its face than a theme-less costume contest