Sentinel Energy Blast is absolutely atrocious.

[Sunsette]

3 hours ago, Sunsette said:

I've had some time to think more about the problems, and possible solutions, for the state that Sentinel Energy Blast is in. At first I thought the problem was the IO tax; then I thought the problem was the powerset. With more time, I see it's really a conjunction of the two things.

 

The single biggest problem is, I think, how utterly disappointing that Focused Power Bolt is, along with the sameyness factor. I think it needs to give a stacking -res penalty on a good duration, given its high recharge time. Power Push is a reliable single-target crowd control even if it does 'tax' to knockdown instead. Both Power Burst and FPB I think should get a slight damage increase of about 10%, bringing them closer to Power Push's DPA numbers but not quite getting there, and being more satisfying for their cast times.

 

Then I would like to steal a little bit of Energy Manipulation's thunder and just change Sentinel EB Aim into a hybrid of it and Boost Range. Just like Corruptors get Power Build Up in their epic pools, I'd call it Power Aim, and it'd work as Sentinel Aim does now, but it increases Range by +66% instead of +33%, better allowing Sentinel to compensate for knocking back out of its own range, 

 

The second biggest problem is, I've been looking at the Knockback sets all wrong. One way to address them is to come up with other single IOs that can be broadly 'sprinkled' into other builds. Another way to address them is to make them five-slot better.

 

Sudden Acceleration has its recharge bonus as the 6-piece bonus and the HP as the 5-piece. I feel comfortable guessing (though correct me if I'm wrong) that no one who's looking to stack HP bonuses goes after Sudden Acceleration. I think it would be an acceptable violation of the cottage rule to bring the recharge bonus down to position 5, buff the HP bonus to 3% HP, and put it at position 6. Because this still doesn't damage cap an attack without a damage alpha and it gives crap-all for the other benefits, you're not going to see a lot of people take it willy-nilly.

 

Finally, I would like to propose that there be a Very Rare Knockback set added. There's a Very Rare for every other type of secondary condition, so this isn't out of line. As with the other Very Rares, this would be a near straight upgrade of an existing Rare set, in this case, Sudden Acceleration. The Knockback to Knockdown bonus would be the sixth piece (and thus optional), and the 6 piece bonus would grant the Force Feedback: Chance for Recharge bonus on the attack but at 3.5 PPM rather than 2 PPM. This makes it a strong choice for being used on attacks that recharge relatively quickly rather than ones that recharge slowly, but prevents it from being abused without the full six slot dedication.

 

In the event that it is not possible to create a proc effect via a set bonus, then I amend this proposal to make the 3.5 PPM recharge the proc effect, slap a hefty Schedule D Knockback bonus onto it to discourage melee use, and remove Knockback to Knockdown from this VR KB set entirely.

 

---

The above quoted post reflects my current thoughts on fixing Energy Blast. The original post with its original proposals is left for posterity's sake, so as not to confuse the casual reader, and continues from this point.

---

 

 

This is not going to be a thread about knockback. There will be some discussion of knockback, that is unavoidable, but this is not a thread about knockback, there are a hundred threads on that subject already.

 

This is also absolutely not going to be a thread about Defender, Corruptor, or Blaster Energy Blast. I haven't run the numbers on those powers enough and also I didn't spend two months on my first character on this CoX fork and like 2.5 billion inf trying to make them work.

 

Is Sentinel Energy Blast uniquely bad? I can't honestly answer that question. What I do know is that Sentinel Energy Blast is atrocious.

 

1) Constant random Knockbacks and a 60 foot range don't synergize. The ATOs are straight-up required for Energy Blast Sentinel for range increases. Yes, Aim can increase the range and that's nice, but Power Push is the only good attack in Sentinel Energy Blast, which means that while leveling up, one of your attacks is constantly throwing enemies out of range out of all your other attacks, unless you surrender an IO slot and a lot of influence to fix it. I've gone into more detail elsewhere about why random KB on attacks is a terrible gameplay element so I'm not going to do that again here. Suffice to say that if your soft control is not only the most controversial form of soft control in this game that has arguable team utility and it's also bad for you in solo, it's bad.

 

2) Its damage is approximately half that of Fire Sentinel. Fire is a high outlier, but I shouldn't be pulling Pylon DPS numbers of 170 to 180 when a similarly geared Fire Sentinel using similar gearing philosophy gets DPS in the 360 range. I expected to be within 25% of fire, not pulling half of its numbers. A lot of this is probably the case because Focused Power Bolt sucks. I'm given to understand that its equivalent in other ATs, Sniper Bolt, is actually one of the best sniper attacks in the game, I don't know, I haven't played a blaster with a snipe attack since before they were just terrible attacks no one used ever.

 

Why does Focused Power Bolt suck? It has 10% more DPA than the standard energy blast attack, and has an ultra long 3 second animation time. This means that when it fires, it is a mild increase in damage for a very long cast that gets easily clipped or sniped out from under you. Its recharge is very long for a standard attack, at 20s, which means you're not using it a lot either at low levels. (Ironically this long recharge is its primary saving grace at high gear levels, making it a good choice for PPM frankenslotting).

 

Furthermore, it only has 5% more DPA than the move Power Burst, which is also a long-ish cast time (2.2secs) and neither of these moves have any special effects. Both possess a bad chance of a mediocre knockback that does nothing productive for you.

 

3) Ranged ST attacks have much worse IO sets than any other kind of attack, but no Energy AoE attack is worth putting into single rotation; there are no 'cheats' like Piercing Round. Literally all KB sets are bad; while individual pieces have some utility (though the ICD and low PPM on Force Feedback makes that one questionable unless you're melee AoEing), the sets are always, always bad. If you're using KB purely for the control, you save slots by one- or two-slotting. If you're using them regularly for damage, they're heavily inferior to damage sets.

 

4) Its AoE damage is bad too. It has three AoEs:

- Explosive Blast is a horrible AoE; it is a slightly less accurate clone of M30 grenade, which it ties for DPA. I found only one Sentinel AoE that has AoE damage as its primary function that I would consider worse, Frost Breath in Ice.

- Energy Torrent is somehow arguably worse because it's an unreliable knockback cone with a target cap of 6 that doesn't have single target range or damage. (It's close. Ish.)

- Nova is actually really good, as long as you have KB to KD or AoE Immobs because there is no other KB mitigation tactic that will regularly work with Nova.

 

Flat recommendations, following the cottage rule:

- Double Focused Power Blast's damage. It's a slow-casting T8 with a 50% chance of mag 1 KB. Even if you play purely to ragdoll people this is a bad power. And yet, it's necessary, basically, for PPM builds. This would give it similar PPM as Fire's Blaze, but obviously a lot slower and thus harder to use. +50% damage rather than +100% might be a better choice here once the individual math shakes out on enhancing damage versus procs, but either way, this attack is just flat unacceptable at this stage. It's a massive disappointment.

- Give Power Burst a 100% chance to knock so it's reliable and +40% damage. This puts it on par with Fire's Blazing Blast.

- All powers except Power Push knockdown rather than back. (I'd like to do it to PP too, but cottage rule, and that's the power's original raison d'etre).

- All AoE powers give 100% chance to knock.

 

Based on my pylon parses, this would give Energy Blast a 16% higher parse, at about 210 pylon DPS and make it very reliable AoE control. Furthermore, it would make all of the powers actually attractive to take at level up and synergize appropriately. I'd like a further damage increase than this tbh but I'd need to do more parsing to honestly advocate for it, avoid edge case brokenness, etc.

 

Finally, while not our pylon parses, I've included screenshots of the damage estimator in Mids showing both of our builds at their very best before including incarnate effects like the Doublehit effect from Hybrid. The trend is still strong here, and it's worth noting that my build loses more than theirs from unreliability of procs (as my frankenslot gives a huge amount of hasten).

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Sunsette

[marcussmythe]

/signed

[HelenCarnate]

Why are you including 2 high DPA epic/patron powers in the Fire attack chain and not in the Energy attack chain?  That makes it look like you are padding the numbers for Fire in order to make your point when they are closer than you make them appear.  Not saying I don't agree, but that is not the best way to prove your point.

[Sunsette]

Why are you including 2 high DPA epic/patron powers in the Fire attack chain and not in the Energy attack chain?  That makes it look like you are padding the numbers for Fire in order to make your point when they are closer than you make them appear.

 

Simply put because you can't build them the exact same way. If I built Havoc Punch into the rotation (the single best melee attack except maybe Knockout Blow), I'd get about 15 DPS extra max. Because Fire's highest DPS attacks are both quick animating/recharging and a good deal stronger than the analogous ability in Energy, and because Fire's attacks only have access to the ST ranged damage IO set pool (which has a dearth of procs, let alone good ones) if it wants to find a PPM mule with a slow recharge, it needs to go into an epic pool. It's worth understanding that just like Focused Power Blast, Dominate is not actually a high DPA move naturally but can be frankenslotted up there on the strength of its recharge and then made fast recharging through global recharge.

 

This person's fire build without the melee attack is still 300ish DPS on the pylon.

[Chance Jackson]

/signed

[Burnt Toast]

I'm all for looking at and balancing powers, but when presented with hyperbole I just can't get behind it.

If it takes you 2.5 bil to do a reallly good build then you are doing it wrong. That would be: 26.5 Million PER enhancement.... uhhhh most enhancements (yes even pvp) max at 20mil except SOME purples which max at 25 mil). If all you are using are purple and pvp IOs.. again..doing it wrong.

 

 

[Sunsette]

I'm all for looking at and balancing powers, but when presented with hyperbole I just can't get behind it.

If it takes you 2.5 bil to do a reallly good build then you are doing it wrong. That would be: 26.5 Million PER enhancement.... uhhhh most enhancements (yes even pvp) max at 20mil except SOME purples which max at 25 mil). If all you are using are purple and pvp IOs.. again..doing it wrong.

 

Or, you're misreading what I said.

 

I said I spent 2.5 billion influence working on my build, not that the final build itself is worth 2.5 billion influence. I literally have only played this one character seriously on Homecoming and poured virtually all of the money I've earned into that character.

 

I have used all of the freespecs earnable from leveling up (I'm vet level 99) and I have purchased ten, some of which I purchased before people told me you can buy respec recipes in the Consignment House, almost all before I started buying salvage packs. I have multiple T4s of every single incarnate slot except Judgment. I have owned a full set of every purple trying different epic pool powers to see what helps best. All of this experimenting costs influence. I've blown through 600 converters in a single day, multiple days, switching builds to test with -- and that was after I realized it was more cost-effective to overload on converters than selling old pieces that were already boosted and buying new ones. Note that my estimations are based on actual costs, not opportunity costs. The point is:

 

If there's something good about energy blast, I've probably found it and obsessed over it. It is incredibly disappointing that I was not able to make this character work for me. Now there is the caveat that by the end of the build, I was so optimized that in most content I couldn't tell how bad the spec was -- up until this parsing test I'd chalked up my earlier bad performance to me being an aggressively bad player, but I feel confident saying that, like Shii-Cho, I may be clumsy but I am eventually effective through sheer methodical straightforwardness. So it is possible to make Sentinel Energy Blast work at endgame.

 

But CoH is not just endgame, and this awful performance permeates every aspect of the leveling experience with Sentinel Energy Blast.

[HelenCarnate]

Why are you including 2 high DPA epic/patron powers in the Fire attack chain and not in the Energy attack chain?  That makes it look like you are padding the numbers for Fire in order to make your point when they are closer than you make them appear.

 

Simply put because you can't build them the exact same way. If I built Havoc Punch into the rotation (the single best melee attack except maybe Knockout Blow), I'd get about 15 DPS extra max. Because Fire's highest DPS attacks are both quick animating/recharging and a good deal stronger than the analogous ability in Energy, and because Fire's attacks only have access to the ST ranged damage IO set pool (which has a dearth of procs, let alone good ones) if it wants to find a PPM mule with a slow recharge, it needs to go into an epic pool. It's worth understanding that just like Focused Power Blast, Dominate is not actually a high DPA move naturally but can be frankenslotted up there on the strength of its recharge and then made fast recharging through global recharge.

 

This person's fire build without the melee attack is still 300ish DPS on the pylon.

 

Thank you for the clarification.  That makes more sense with all the information.

[Fedifensor]

I understand where you’re coming from, and I don’t disagree...but there is one aspect that should be addressed.  You’re attacking a pylon, and the secondary effect of Energy is Knockback.  You’ve chosen a target where the secondary effect of your primary has no value.  Then, you compare it to Fire, which has a secondary effect of damage over time...which does have value.  It’s not a 100% fair comparison.  Against normal targets, you are getting damage mitigation when a foe is knocked back and thus unable to attack for a period of time.  You (and many others) may disagree on the value of knockback, and say it is as much of a detriment as an advantage...but it is part and parcel of balancing the sets.

[Hopeling]

+1, Sunsette.

 

Energy Blast could use a buff for other ATs too, frankly. Its damage isn't exciting for anybody, the secondary effect is actively unhelpful in a pretty good fraction of situations (and since literally every power is a knock, it gets a bit redundant), and Power Push is hot garbage for non-sentinels.

 

Just buffing the numbers would certainly work. I've sometimes thought about giving the set some kind of special mechanic based on knockback, like giving a self damage buff or reduced smash/energy resist to the target when a knock effect triggers.

[Six-Six]

I understand where you’re coming from, and I don’t disagree...but there is one aspect that should be addressed.  You’re attacking a pylon, and the secondary effect of Energy is Knockback.  You’ve chosen a target where the secondary effect of your primary has no value.  Then, you compare it to Fire, which has a secondary effect of damage over time...which does have value.  It’s not a 100% fair comparison.  Against normal targets, you are getting damage mitigation when a foe is knocked back and thus unable to attack for a period of time.  You (and many others) may disagree on the value of knockback, and say it is as much of a detriment as an advantage...but it is part and parcel of balancing the sets.

 

I'm a noob, but this is the method I use when I solo. KB gives me breathing space when I'm getting mobbed. makes the single target attacks more efficiently when you pick them off one by one while they're rag-dolling. Also. as a ranged fighter, I don't want melee attacks up in my face. if they get too close, they can hurt me. a little KB puts some comfortable distance to set up a chain.

 

[Sunsette]

I understand where you’re coming from, and I don’t disagree...but there is one aspect that should be addressed.  You’re attacking a pylon, and the secondary effect of Energy is Knockback.  You’ve chosen a target where the secondary effect of your primary has no value.  Then, you compare it to Fire, which has a secondary effect of damage over time...which does have value.  It’s not a 100% fair comparison.  Against normal targets, you are getting damage mitigation when a foe is knocked back and thus unable to attack for a period of time.  You (and many others) may disagree on the value of knockback, and say it is as much of a detriment as an advantage...but it is part and parcel of balancing the sets.

 

I have already completely addressed the value of knockback to an Energy Blast Sentinel, discussed how it is often more harmful than helpful while leveling^{1 2 3 4}, acknowledged that Fire Blast is a high DPS outlier upwards⁵, and did not request buffs to Energy Blast that would, in my estimation, do more than put it at approximately 70% of the ST damage of Fire Blast rather than approximately 50 to 60%.^{6 7}

 

It's entirely reasonable to disagree with me on my estimation of the values of such things, but I very definitely DID address those things.

 

---

 

¹"Constant random Knockbacks and a 60 foot range don't synergize."

²"Power Push is the only good attack in Sentinel Energy Blast, which means that while leveling up, one of your attacks is constantly throwing enemies out of range out of all your other attacks, unless you surrender an IO slot and a lot of influence to fix it."

³"...(W)hy random KB on attacks is a terrible gameplay element..."

⁴"Suffice to say that if your soft control is not only the most controversial form of soft control in this game that has arguable team utility and it's also bad for you in solo, it's bad."

⁵"Fire is a high outlier, but I shouldn't be pulling Pylon DPS numbers of 170 to 180 when a similarly geared Fire Sentinel using similar gearing philosophy gets DPS in the 360 range. I expected to be within 25% of fire, not pulling half of its numbers."

⁶"...(S)imilarly geared Fire Sentinel using similar gearing philosophy gets DPS in the 360 range."

⁷"Based on my pylon parses, this would give Energy Blast a 16% higher parse, at about 210 pylon DPS and make it very reliable AoE control."

 

---

 

+1, Sunsette.

 

Energy Blast could use a buff for other ATs too, frankly. Its damage isn't exciting for anybody, the secondary effect is actively unhelpful in a pretty good fraction of situations (and since literally every power is a knock, it gets a bit redundant), and Power Push is hot garbage for non-sentinels.

 

Just buffing the numbers would certainly work. I've sometimes thought about giving the set some kind of special mechanic based on knockback, like giving a self damage buff or reduced smash/energy resist to the target when a knock effect triggers.

 

I would love it if there were a 'if hit someone while knocked, damage increases' mechanic but I'm not sure it wouldn't violate the cottage rule, since I suspect at least some players of Energy Blast may enjoy it for not having the complications of, say, Water Blast.

[Fedifensor]

If you want to convince people, you need to use a different Sentinel primary that isn’t the “high-damage outlier”, or compare across the entire set of Sentinel primaries to show that Energy is the weakest of the group.  Cherry-picking Fire as your basis of comparison makes it look like you’re trying to prop up your argument with one of the best performers from a damage perspective...or that you want Fire nerfed.

[OEM61]

Argue against KB if you want to, but it is a +defense set (enemies on their backs are not attacking you, and enemies with powerful close attacks aren't able to land those if you have knocked them away) and if you actually move around the battlefield it is not that big a deal.  If moving is not an option then you can always switch targets, slot some +range, or wait for that enemy to get back within range.

 

In groups it can be an issue, but you can always slot overwhelming force and "solve the problem" either way.

 

In the meantime, as was stated earlier, comparing a damage + DoT set to a damage + KB set when comparing DPS isn't exactly fair in comparing the overall value of two different sets.

[Sunsette]

If you want to convince people, you need to use a different Sentinel primary that isn’t the “high-damage outlier”, or compare across the entire set of Sentinel primaries to show that Energy is the weakest of the group.  Cherry-picking Fire as your basis of comparison makes it look like you’re trying to prop up your argument with one of the best performers from a damage perspective...or that you want Fire nerfed.

 

So I said this fairly early on:

Is Sentinel Energy Blast uniquely bad? I can't honestly answer that question.

 

And I meant it. While I'm collecting data as fast as I can, there's simply no way for me to give an honest answer across 'all Sentinel primaries.' Furthermore, there is in fact more to the game than damage, and the lack of synergy between Energy Blast's secondary effect and the Sentinel role is a significant contribution to its problems. But if we want an idea of how most Sentinel primaries perform in ST, my estimation of how well they perform is that median performance for a dedicated player at max level is going to be about thrice the DPS of the highest single DPS attack in the set's base value.¹

 

Following that, again, rough estimation.

 

Archery					210
Assault Rifle					165
Beam Rifle2					240
Dark Blast					185
Dual Pistols3					189
Electrical Blast					249
Energy Blast					186
Fire Blast					324
Ice Blast					240
Psychic Blast					225
Radiation Blast					186
Sonic Attack					225
Water Blast					1504

 

---

 

¹ Highest DPA attack in EB is 60, my DPS is 180; highest DPA attack in FB is 100, Fire Blast parses seem to hover around 280 to 320, with nihilli in particular getting 360, and Fire Blast's highest DPA attack is 100.

² Disintegrate effects included.

³ Incendiary Ammunition included.

⁴ I have absolutely no numerical data for the benefits of Tidal Power.

 

---

 

So with this very rough estimation, what are we seeing? First of all, a median of 210.

 

EB is looking in the bottom third of sets here for ST damage. Its peers are:

[*]Assault Rifle

[*]Dark Blast

[*]Dual Pistols

[*]Radiation Blast

[*]Water Blast

 

1. Assault Rifle: 165

It's looking pretty awful. I can't say I'm seeing any strong reason to take it. While it has a mix of secondary effects, unlike a lot of newer sets, most of these secondary effects are bad or weak, the strongest exceptions being Burst (it allows slotting of Achilles' Heel, but OTOH, it has a terrible chance to activate) and Disorienting Shot (with a measly 3s base stun even if it is Mag 3). M30 Grenade as discussed in the first post is a very slightly superior version of Explosive Blast in Energy Blast. I'd consider it as bad as Energy Blast, maybe even worse, barring something huge I'm missing.

 

2. Dark Blast: 185

This one's been getting some recent discussion over in the Sentinel boards, so I expected it to show up here. However, the secondary effects are much, much stronger here, given that's Dark's signature trait as an attacking set always. As is standard for Dark, every single attack applies a hefty amount of -ToHit, making it a strong psuedo-support. Umbral Torrent has a strong KB of 8.31(!) that always triggers, putting Energy Torrent to shame in return for a narrower cone shape. Abyssal Gaze has an OK Mag 3 5.2s Stun, which is great for an opener on a hard target, and it comes with a self-heal attack. I think it's hard to make an honest argument this is a bad set, but it might be reasonable to say it's mediocre for a Sentinel set.

 

3. Dual Pistols: 189

Dual Pistols loses a lot in the transition to Sentinel because, unlike Defender, Corruptor, and Blaster, there's no other way to give it an Aim + Build Up or Double Build-Up Effect. It is not a strong set. But I have actually played a Dual Pistols Sentinel (though not to 50) and I would be hard pressed to say it's as bad. Its AoE is far better than Energy's with no unnecessary KB (Bullet Rain if you don't swap ammo types) but a lot of KD if you want it, and Piercing Rounds lets you cheat Annihilation: Chance for -Res into your ST rotation very reliably, which stacks with Fury of the Gladiator in the T9. It's not gonna win any pylon races but it actually brings a lot to the table on the AoE front. Definitely better than Energy.

 

4. Radiation Blast: 186

Every single attack can slot Achilles' Heel, and Irradiate and Atomic Blast can slot Fury of the Gladiator, and Electron Bomb and Neutron Haze can slot Annihilation. That is reliably -20 Res, -20 Res, -12.5 Res respectively. Way better than Energy, which can only get Annihilation and Fury, neither reliably. Radiation should melt in AoE and do about 15% better than listed in ST.

 

5. Water Blast: 150?

I have no numerical data for the Tidal Force effect, but this is generally agreed by most Sentinels on the discord to be one of the six strongest primaries that Sentinels have, from unusually high Blaster caps for AoE to its excellent herding AoE controls. Even if Tidal Force raises the damage by no more than 10%, water can handle groups really well and that's important. I have never seen someone say "Water Blast feels weak", and I have heard that about literally every other set in this list of five + energy.

 

---

 

So it's very possible that Energy Blast isn't uniquely bad -- there's one other set about as bad. Neither are near the median and my asked-for buffs would place Energy right about at that rough median, in fact.

[Sunsette]

Argue against KB if you want to, but it is a +defense set (enemies on their backs are not attacking you, and enemies with powerful close attacks aren't able to land those if you have knocked them away)

 

Opening salvo against an enemy with Energy Blast at 60 ft. range: 20 to 50% chance they land on their ass and go outside of my range, requiring me to move to keep up pressure on them, and you rarely get single pulls, so, interrupted DPS. You close much more than that and you also make it easier for them to reach you.

 

This is not +defense. The AoEs aren't really any better. I experimented a lot with various set-ups and invariably I found I killed faster and died less if I actually put up a KB-blocking AoE immob and then just cut loose immediately, a beneficial quirk of the interaction between Sentinel immobs only being Mag 3 (that is, not enough to trap a boss, who tend to be the most dangerous and yet also poor immediate kill targets for Energy's atrocious ST damage -- better to kill all of the support first instead) and knockback.

 

I'm going through the exact same leveling content with a reroll of the exact same character, only changing Energy Blast to Beam Rifle, and I die far less and fight far more effectively. (All Praetoria content. If it ain't gold, it ain't bold.) There was a mission my EB/EA died to four times straight up that was instead an exhilarating, intense, but reasonable challenge on BR/EA. And I've made a point of not getting anything I didn't get on my Energy Blast version of the character -- no money handouts from my main or handmedown IOs.

 

Water Blast shows what 'throwing people around' can do when it's done right. Energy Blast... doesn't. Solo or on teams. Not for Sentinel.

[Bossk_Hogg]

I understand where you’re coming from, and I don’t disagree...but there is one aspect that should be addressed.  You’re attacking a pylon, and the secondary effect of Energy is Knockback.  You’ve chosen a target where the secondary effect of your primary has no value.  Then, you compare it to Fire, which has a secondary effect of damage over time...which does have value.  It’s not a 100% fair comparison.  Against normal targets, you are getting damage mitigation when a foe is knocked back and thus unable to attack for a period of time.  You (and many others) may disagree on the value of knockback, and say it is as much of a detriment as an advantage...but it is part and parcel of balancing the sets.

 

Fire has better AE by leaps and bounds. It's single target damage shouldn't eclipse Energy Blast's by any degree. Given that sentinels are rather survivable, the KB isnt nearly as important as on a blaster, and is of often questionable use on teams.

 

Sentinel EB is pretty lackluster. It has a pile of 4 ST attacks that are basically identical in DPA.

 

Great suggestions!

 

I would also make Power Bust a 100% disorient, bringing it in line with Tesla Cage, Cosmic Burst, etc as harder control.

[Bossk_Hogg]

I understand where you’re coming from, and I don’t disagree...but there is one aspect that should be addressed.  You’re attacking a pylon, and the secondary effect of Energy is Knockback.  You’ve chosen a target where the secondary effect of your primary has no value.  Then, you compare it to Fire, which has a secondary effect of damage over time...which does have value.  It’s not a 100% fair comparison.  Against normal targets, you are getting damage mitigation when a foe is knocked back and thus unable to attack for a period of time.  You (and many others) may disagree on the value of knockback, and say it is as much of a detriment as an advantage...but it is part and parcel of balancing the sets.

 

I'm a noob, but this is the method I use when I solo. KB gives me breathing space when I'm getting mobbed. makes the single target attacks more efficiently when you pick them off one by one while they're rag-dolling. Also. as a ranged fighter, I don't want melee attacks up in my face. if they get too close, they can hurt me. a little KB puts some comfortable distance to set up a chain.

 

Sentinels have scrapper level protection for a reason.

[Bossk_Hogg]

Argue against KB if you want to, but it is a +defense set (enemies on their backs are not attacking you, and enemies with powerful close attacks aren't able to land those if you have knocked them away) and if you actually move around the battlefield it is not that big a deal.  If moving is not an option then you can always switch targets, slot some +range, or wait for that enemy to get back within range.

 

In groups it can be an issue, but you can always slot overwhelming force and "solve the problem" either way.

 

In the meantime, as was stated earlier, comparing a damage + DoT set to a damage + KB set when comparing DPS isn't exactly fair in comparing the overall value of two different sets.

 

Ice also has defenses, better single target, better AE, and is more team friendly.

 

Dark has solid KB in Torrent, equal/better ST, and better AE. Stacking to hit debuffs are quite solid when paired with any defense you have, and helps teams way more than random KB.

 

Do you just hate energy blast so much that it needs to be at the bottom tier for basically everything? Time spent moving is time not spent blasting, and we've already established it's DPS is poor. Forcing them to burn a damn slot on every power is just kicking a weak set when it's down.

[Hopeling]

I would say that, if your analysis is missing something, it's that the other sets with bad ST damage make up for it with strong AoE damage (Assault Rifle, Water Blast) and/or other utility (Water Blast has slows and guaranteed AoE knockdown and a heal; Dark Blast has a heal and -tohit and a hold). Energy Blast is, if anything, even worse at AoE than it is at ST.

 

It's OK for a set to be bottom-of-the-barrel at something, but not at everything. If Energy/ were at least the king of soft control, then maaaaaybe this would be justifiable - but the only guaranteed knock powers are Power Push and Nova, the rest have a 60% chance or less! Water Blast is better at knocking down crowds than Energy is!

[Super Homer]

Few things to keep in mind:

Traditionally, at lest live devs, would mostly ignore any balance request for any set that included outside sources of damage. If your examples show Epic powers, pool powers, and IO procs, that example is considered irrelevant due to the game's "no pools, no IOs" design philosophy.

 

If there is any balance issue due to IOs, that should be seen as an IO issue, not a set issue. If a set is seen as having lackluster slotting options due to bad options of sets for it's secondary effect, against, that is an IO issue. If a pool/epic power is too good but only for certain sets, again, that is a pool/epic power issue.

 

I am not saying the concerns may not be valid, but primary/secondary sets are balanced by themselves.

 

Also: nothing in this game is balanced on end-game optimal builds. This game has always carried a "no mistakes, just happy accidents" philosophy when it comes to balance at the end game, and how some things interact together.

[Sunsette]

Few things to keep in mind:

Traditionally, at lest live devs, would mostly ignore any balance request for any set that included outside sources of damage. If your examples show Epic powers, pool powers, and IO procs, that example is considered irrelevant due to the game's "no pools, no IOs" design philosophy.

 

If there is any balance issue due to IOs, that should be seen as an IO issue, not a set issue. If a set is seen as having lackluster slotting options due to bad options of sets for it's secondary effect, against, that is an IO issue. If a pool/epic power is too good but only for certain sets, again, that is a pool/epic power issue.

 

I am not saying the concerns may not be valid, but primary/secondary sets are balanced by themselves.

 

Also: nothing in this game is balanced on end-game optimal builds. This game has always carried a "no mistakes, just happy accidents" philosophy when it comes to balance at the end game, and how some things interact together.

 

While I appreciate the feedback, I include a lot of discussion about the poorness of the experience generally both in the original post and in later updates, and in fact pointedly have been ignoring the fact that Sentinel ATOs boost range, at which point Energy Blast KB's become a lot more tolerable in the solo experience.

 

There is quite a lot of quant data and anecdotal examples and 'feel' analysis altogether in this thread. The HC devs are free to ignore what they feel isn't relevant, although I don't think completely ignoring things that exist and are widely accessible is a very good way to analyze anything. We can't assume optimal case scenarios, but we also shouldn't pretend that they don't exist either. The point of citing an optimal case scenario was to show just how systematic the problem is if it carries into the most endgame of builds, millions of influence deep, from the casually observable problems that exist at the low levels of play.

 

Citing IO procs is a best case scenario, too. If we just go with straight SO builds and avoid epic power pools, the problems become only more distinguished. You're looking at an EB chain there of maybe 110 DPS at 50 to Fire pulling 180 just from looking at the basic attacks at Mids.

 

None of which touches on just how abysmally knockback synergizes with the default ranges on Sentinel, but fortunately, I also discussed that upthread.

[SwitchFade]

Sunsett. Two things.

 

One, I plus 1 you on this. Eb on sents is lackluster.

 

Two, it's probably not a high priority fix, as free Dev time would be spent on more pressing matters.

 

In the end, sents suffer from Jack of all syndrome. Looks fun on paper, requires specific sets.

[Sunsette]

You're right that it's not the most pressing of issues, as I think most people who are already deeply invested in this game and are willing to try out Energy Blast are willing to accept it requires a bit of work. (That's where I was, I just underestimated the amount of work needed for the results.)

 

But it is one dear to me, so I hope it is addressed.

[Coyote]

Short comments:

 

1: KB IS a plus on a set. You can say that it's less useful than a self-heal or -ToHit debuffs, but when you take a real counterpoint and just completely dismiss it or pretend that it's a negative (Energy Torrent knocks mobs back... and this is a negative? Use a KB to KD IO, it's now a positive... add in a Force Feedback proc in there and in Explosive Blast, and you have a set that has a very high chance to keep activating periods of +100% Recharge). Whether it's as useful as other tools is debatable... that it's a positive really can't be debated.

 

2: On the DPS side, well... EB is weak. It is low in single-target, it is low in AoE, and it doesn't bring special effects to the table (strong Hold, strong debuff, etc). Knockback is nice, but not nearly nice enough to counterbalance overall low damage. Other sets have good damage AND good effects (Water, Dark, Ice, Beam as immediate examples).

 

3: The power selection is terrible. As others have already said, multiple choices of basically the same blast, just in "small, medium, or large" varieties makes for a boring build. The set needs some sort of Combo mechanism where using multiple powers sets up a guaranteed (unresistible) knockdown, or self-buff like a +Damage boost, in order to make it reasonable to use most of the powers.

 

All in all, it's not a terrible set, but it's clearly weak in several areas, and it could use some kind of buff. Damage buffs always work, but there are also other methods that could be used to fix it.