AOE caps testing

KaizenSoze · July 15, 2019

What appears to be some debate on what the AOE/cone/PBAOE hits caps are for Sentinel.

I did some testing in Perez Park today. Why PP, lots of tightly bunched groups, some as large as 12.

AOE and PBAOE the caps appears to be 10. Most people agree.

Now, the interesting part, Steam Spray in Water Blast is a nice 40deg cone. I was able to hit 9 mobs, I suspect the cap is actually 10, but I could get 10 in the cone.

This appears to be greater than the common wisdom.

Better testing would involve a tanker with an aggro aura to group the mobs tighter.

Post your test results or point how I could test better.

If you want to help, I am Blood Pixie on Excelsior.

Sunsette · July 15, 2019

Most of this information is actually available on the character creation screen with the detailed power button, and I'd been meaning to dump it out all into one place that's web-accessible. General observations:

Cones are usually capped at 6, unless they are 5°, when they are capped at 3. Assault Rifle's T9 is an exception and is a very wide cone. It's possible that extremely wide epic/patron cones are also capped at 10.
Spheres are usually capped at 10.
Sonic Attack and Water Blast appear to use Blaster caps instead for everything but their T9.

A table depicting changes in AoE powers from Blaster to Sentinel.
POWERSET	POWER NAME	TYPE	# FOES	CHANGES
Archery	Fistful of Arrows	40 ft. Cone (50°)	6	Cone shorter (10') and wider (10°), target cap reduced by 4.
	Explosive Arrow	15 ft. Sphere, 60 ft. range	10	Range shorter (20'), target cap reduced by 6.
	Rain of Arrows	25 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	???¹	Range shorter (50'), cooldown increased (30s), target cap ???.⁴
Assault Rifle	Buckshot	40 ft. Cone (30°)	6	Target cap reduced by 4.
	M30 Grenade	15 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Range shorter (20'), target cap reduced by 6.
	Flamethrower	40 ft. Cone (45°)	6	Target cap reduced by 4.
	Full Auto	40 ft. Cone (90°)	10	Cone shorter (40') and wider (70°), target cap reduced by 4, cooldown increased (30s).
Beam Rifle	Cutting Beam	40 ft. Cone (45°)	6	Cone shorter (10') and wider (10°), target cap reduced by 4.
	Refractor Beam	15 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Replaces a single-target snipe.
	Piercing Beam	60 ft. Cone (5°)	3	Range shorter (20').
	Overcharge	20 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Range shorter (40'); radius smaller (5'); target cap reduced by 6.
Dark Blast	Umbral Torrent	40 ft. Cone (30°)	6	Range shorter (40') and target cap reduced by 4.
	Dark Obliteration	15 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Replaces a 40', 40° cone with a 10 target cap.
	Blackstar	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Radius smaller (5'), target cap reduced by 6, cooldown reduced (55s).
Dual Pistols	Empty Clips	40 ft. Cone (30°)	6	Target cap reduced by 4.
	Bullet Rain	15 ft. Sphere, 60 ft. range	10	Range shorter (20') and target cap reduced by 6.
	Piercing Rounds	60 ft. Cone (5°)	3	Range shorter (20').
	Hail of Bullets	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Radius smaller (5'), target cap reduced by 6, cooldown reduced (15s).
Electrical Blast	Ball Lightning	15 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Range shorter (20') and target cap reduced by 6.
	Short Circuit	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Moved to T8, target cap reduced by 6.
	Thunderous Blast	20 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Range shorter (20'); radius smaller (5'); target cap reduced by 6; cooldown reduced by 80s.
Energy Blast	Energy Torrent	40 ft. Cone (45°)	6	Target cap reduced by 4.
	Explosive Blast	15 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Moved to T7, range shorter (40'), target cap reduced by 6.
	Nova	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Radius smaller (5'), target cap reduced by 6, cooldown reduced (55s).
Fire Blast	Fire Ball	15 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Range shorter (40'), target cap reduced by 6.
	Fire Breath	40 ft. Cone (30°)	6	Target cap reduced by 4.
	Rain of Fire	25 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	???¹	Moved to T8, range shorter (20'), target cap ???⁴
	Inferno	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Radius smaller (5'), target cap reduced by 6, cooldown reduced (55s).
Ice Blast	Frost Breath	40 ft. Cone (30°)	6	Target cap reduced by 4.
	Ice Storm	25 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	???¹	Range shorter (20'), target cap ???⁴
	Blizzard	???² ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	???¹	Range shorter (20'), target cap ???⁴, cooldown reduced (80s).
Psychic Blast	Psychic Scream	40 ft. Cone (70°)	6	Replaces a single-target power.
	Psionic Tornado	20 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	10	Range shorter (20'), target cap reduced by 6.
	Psychic Wail	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Radius smaller (5'), target cap reduced by 6, cooldown reduced (55s).
Radiation Blast	Irradiate	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Target cap reduced by 6.
	Electron Haze	40 ft. Cone (30°)	6	Target cap reduced by 4.
	Neutron Bomb	15 ft. Sphere, 60 ft. range	10	Range shorter (20'), target cap reduced by 6.
	Atomic Blast	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Radius smaller (5'), target cap reduced by 6, cooldown reduced (55s).
Sonic Attack	Howl	50 ft. Cone (30°)	10	Only damage and res debuff values changed.
	Shockwave	50 ft. Cone (30°)	10	Only damage and res debuff values changed.
	Siren's Song	40 ft. Cone (50°)	10	Only damage values changed.
	Dreadful Wail	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Radius smaller (5'), target cap reduced by 6, cooldown reduced (55s).
Water Blast	Water Burst	15 ft. Sphere, 60 ft. range	16	Range shorter (20')
	Whirlpool	25 ft. Sphere, 40 ft. range	???³	Range shorter (20')⁵, target cap ???.⁴
	Steam Spray	40 ft. Cone (50°)	10	Only damage values changed.
	Geyser	20 ft. Sphere, PBAOE	10	Radius smaller (5'), target cap reduced by 6, cooldown reduced (35s).

---

¹Expected value of 10.

²Expected value of 25.

³Expected value of 10 or 16; Water seems to use Blaster rules sometimes.

⁴Expected value of 16

⁵Not a typo; Water got very minimal reductions from Blaster.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Sunsette
Updated table.

KaizenSoze · July 15, 2019

Thank you for all your work!

Now, we should never mention this again. I do not want the devs nerfing water blast. :)

PaxArcana · July 15, 2019

That table would help a lot more, if you also included a column for the caps other ATs see (especially Blasters). That'd make it far easier for us to compare them.

Sunsette · July 15, 2019

That table would help a lot more, if you also included a column for the caps other ATs see (especially Blasters). That'd make it far easier for us to compare them.

...it's done.

Obitus · July 15, 2019

...it's done.

Damn, great work. Thanks, Sunsette

Sunsette · July 16, 2019

Also because it's important information that I'd also been meaning to get onto the web:

List of disintegrate additional effects in BR at 50

Single Shot: -75% regen for 10 secs

Charged Shot: 13 damage

Cutting Beam: 16 damage

Disintegrate: N/A

Aim: N/A

Lancer Shot: 22.4 damage

Refractor Beam: 15.7 damage

Piercing Beam: 37.83 damage

Overcharge: 100% chance of Mag 3 stun, 6.4s (normally 60% chance of Mag 3 stun, 3.2s)

Ironscarlet · July 16, 2019

Anyone else feel Hail of bullets from duel pistols . Got the short end of the stick with only 15sec reduces recharge?

Btw thx for the info.

PaxArcana · July 16, 2019

So, now that I can see what those numbers mean - see what was actually done to the Sentinel powersets - I have to say: GOOD GOD DAMN, that's too much of a nerf.

Roughly a 40% reduction in AoE caps, and usually a 50% (or more) reduction in range, on top of a lower damage scale??

Too much.

It is too much.

A 25% reduction in AoE caps, and a 25% reduction in range, should have been entirely sufficient (on top of the aforementioned reduced damage scale, of course). 30%, tops, for each.

Sunsette · July 16, 2019

I know one thing -- I don't foresee myself trying an archery sentinel anytime soon. They look like they might even be worse than energy when it comes to AoE. The T9 is the saving grace for a lot of them but it's one of the worst attacks in the set for Archery, at least at first glance. Hopefully the ST redeems it a little bit, they're at least higher on that front than Energy.

nihilii · July 16, 2019

Anyone else feel Hail of bullets from duel pistols . Got the short end of the stick with only 15sec reduces recharge?

It's worth noting Sentinel T9s get their damage normalized. So Hail of Bullets doesn't get much of a decrease in recharge, but doesn't get as much of a decrease in damage either. Sentinel Inferno does less than half the damage of Blaster Inferno, for example.

The T9 is the saving grace for a lot of them but it's one of the worst attacks in the set for Archery, at least at first glance.

If you're referring to the Mids animation time, this was buffed in a patch back in June. My Archery Sentinel has no complaint. :)

Sunsette · July 16, 2019

Fair enough -- still think my next archer'll be blaster though. Tactical Arrow looks -fun-.

Rathulfr · July 16, 2019

Fair enough -- still think my next archer'll be blaster though. Tactical Arrow looks -fun-.

My 50+3 Archery/Tactical Arrow Blaster assures you that it is fun. Here's my leveling build, which skips all the secondary arrow powers except for the T1, in favor of defense and Leadership. You might find it more useful to take Glue and/or Flash Arrow at lower levels, in lieu of the pool powers for defense.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Wrongbow SO: Level 50 Natural Blaster

Primary Power Set: Archery

Secondary Power Set: Tactical Arrow

Power Pool: Concealment

Power Pool: Flight

Power Pool: Fighting

Power Pool: Leadership

Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Snap Shot

(A) Damage Increase
(3) Damage Increase
(3) Damage Increase

Level 1: Electrified Net Arrow

(A) Immobilisation Duration

Level 2: Aimed Shot

(A) Damage Increase
(5) Damage Increase
(7) Damage Increase
(7) Recharge Reduction
(9) Recharge Reduction
(9) Recharge Reduction

Level 4: Hover

(A) Defense Buff
(11) Defense Buff
(11) Defense Buff

Level 6: Blazing Arrow

(A) Damage Increase
(13) Damage Increase
(13) Damage Increase
(15) Recharge Reduction
(15) Recharge Reduction
(17) Recharge Reduction

Level 8: Fly

(A) Flight Speed

Level 10: Stealth

(A) Endurance Reduction
(17) Endurance Reduction
(19) Endurance Reduction
(19) Defense Buff
(21) Defense Buff
(21) Defense Buff

Level 12: Explosive Arrow

(A) Damage Increase
(23) Damage Increase
(23) Damage Increase
(25) Recharge Reduction
(25) Recharge Reduction
(27) Recharge Reduction

Level 14: Kick

(A) Knockback Distance

Level 16: Aim

(A) Recharge Reduction
(27) Recharge Reduction
(29) Recharge Reduction

Level 18: Ranged Shot

(A) Damage Increase
(29) Damage Increase
(31) Damage Increase
(31) Recharge Reduction
(31) Recharge Reduction
(33) Recharge Reduction

Level 20: Eagle Eye

(A) Endurance Modification
(33) Endurance Modification
(33) Endurance Modification

Level 22: Tough

(A) Endurance Reduction
(34) Endurance Reduction
(34) Endurance Reduction

Level 24: Weave

(A) Endurance Reduction
(34) Endurance Reduction
(36) Endurance Reduction
(36) Defense Buff
(36) Defense Buff
(37) Defense Buff

Level 26: Maneuvers

(A) Endurance Reduction
(37) Endurance Reduction
(37) Endurance Reduction
(39) Defense Buff
(39) Defense Buff
(39) Defense Buff

Level 28: Agility

(A) Flight Speed

Level 30: Upshot

(A) Recharge Reduction
(40) Recharge Reduction
(40) Recharge Reduction

Level 32: Rain of Arrows

(A) Damage Increase
(40) Damage Increase
(42) Damage Increase
(42) Recharge Reduction
(42) Recharge Reduction
(43) Recharge Reduction

Level 35: Scorpion Shield

(A) Endurance Reduction
(43) Endurance Reduction
(43) Endurance Reduction
(45) Defense Buff
(45) Defense Buff
(45) Defense Buff

Level 38: Gymnastics

(A) Endurance Reduction
(46) Endurance Reduction
(46) Endurance Reduction
(46) Defense Buff
(48) Defense Buff
(48) Defense Buff

Level 41: Assault

(A) Endurance Reduction
(48) Endurance Reduction
(50) Endurance Reduction

Level 44: Tactics

(A) Endurance Reduction
(50) Endurance Reduction
(50) Endurance Reduction

Level 47: Afterburner

(A) Flight Speed

Level 49: Invisibility

(A) Endurance Reduction

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Empty

Level 1: Defiance

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Empty

Level 2: Rest

(A) Empty

Level 1: Health

(A) Healing

Level 1: Hurdle

(A) Jumping

Level 1: Stamina

(A) Endurance Modification
(5) Endurance Modification

Level 1: Swift

(A) Flight Speed

------------

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Novacat · July 16, 2019

Not just fun, strong too. Tis not for those with blapping on the brain of course, but everyone you blinded before the fight even began will be held and/or completely drained of endurance and covered in toxic glue within seconds. And them buffs...

Sunsette · July 17, 2019

Appreciate the build, Rath. It will be a little while before I get around to actually making that archer as I have a lot on my CoX plate ahead of it, but I will be sure to come back here when it's ready. :D

Rathulfr · July 17, 2019

Appreciate the build, Rath. It will be a little while before I get around to actually making that archer as I have a lot on my CoX plate ahead of it, but I will be sure to come back here when it's ready. :D

You're more than welcome, Sunsette! You've helped me a lot with your posts and the great guide for Energy Sentinels.

I'm considering a Beam Rifle Sentinel -- maybe SR, maybe Invuln. What do you think?

marcussmythe · July 17, 2019

Appreciate the build, Rath. It will be a little while before I get around to actually making that archer as I have a lot on my CoX plate ahead of it, but I will be sure to come back here when it's ready. :D

You're more than welcome, Sunsette! You've helped me a lot with your posts and the great guide for Energy Sentinels.

I'm considering a Beam Rifle Sentinel -- maybe SR, maybe Invuln. What do you think?

I am not Sunsette. :)

That said, Beam Rifle has a reputation as a 'giant killer' on Blasters, due to the presence of -Regen (one of the only non-debuff powersets in the game to posses this).

As Justin was down last I looked, I have not tested it, but I anticipate that a particularly tanky set like Sentinvuln, when coupled with Beam Rifle, might well be able to show halcyon service in the anti-av, anti-gm role. Hover-shooting cuts down on incoming damage against most GMs/AVs, and with Invuln I would anticipate survival against such being pretty straightforward. If your offense set can stop all regen (as Ive said, Ive not tested it), then you might have a content-solo-capable monster on part with the Controller/Defender/Sentinel crowd.

And of course, given the presence of a heavy armor set, and an exotic tech blasty weapon, you have no excuse not to build some flavor of Space Marine/Starship Trooper/Samus Aran, which I consider a bonus.

Sunsette · July 17, 2019

yeah, marcussmythe has it in one pretty much. I actually am in the process of leveling a BR/EA Sent right now and it has been a radical experience -- I'm leveling through Praetoria (as I did on my EB/EA Sentinel -- it's actually a reroll of that character) and I'd like to add that BR Sent got a buff to its AoE at a very slight cost to its ST output. I hardly ever die and I've had multiple "HOW DID I SURVIVE THAT, THAT'S AMAZING" moments that have been just pure gold.

marcussmythe · July 17, 2019

yeah, marcussmythe has it in one pretty much. I actually am in the process of leveling a BR/EA Sent right now and it has been a radical experience -- I'm leveling through Praetoria (as I did on my EB/EA Sentinel -- it's actually a reroll of that character) and I'd like to add that BR Sent got a buff to its AoE at a very slight cost to its ST output. I hardly ever die and I've had multiple "HOW DID I SURVIVE THAT, THAT'S AMAZING" moments that have been just pure gold.

I would be curious as to your thoughts on the pro/con of EA vs Invuln for a 'tough as possible' BR Sentinel. Ive got an EA Sentinel (and I find Sentinel EA to be amazeballs) but as I look at the chart, I -also- find Sentinel Invuln to be very impressive.

Sunsette · July 17, 2019

yeah, marcussmythe has it in one pretty much. I actually am in the process of leveling a BR/EA Sent right now and it has been a radical experience -- I'm leveling through Praetoria (as I did on my EB/EA Sentinel -- it's actually a reroll of that character) and I'd like to add that BR Sent got a buff to its AoE at a very slight cost to its ST output. I hardly ever die and I've had multiple "HOW DID I SURVIVE THAT, THAT'S AMAZING" moments that have been just pure gold.

I would be curious as to your thoughts on the pro/con of EA vs Invuln for a 'tough as possible' BR Sentinel. Ive got an EA Sentinel (and I find Sentinel EA to be amazeballs) but as I look at the chart, I -also- find Sentinel Invuln to be very impressive.

Invuln is possibly tougher in most content but is a lot less forgiving of build preferences for flavor. The Sent scale is just enough lower that EA has it tough getting all the way up to softcap on all major defs, but doesn't have to care about IO bonuses for S/L, for example; enough will fall into its lap with only minor tweaking. This also means it's a little easier getting its Psi D up thanks to this flexibility in IO slotting. Invuln can comfortably cap that S/L resistance so it's not afraid to stand next to Bobcat, but it's going to have to make choices about whether it wants to laugh at most incarnate enemies (softcapping energy too) or arachnos (getting psi respectable or softcapped).

KaizenSoze · July 17, 2019

yeah, marcussmythe has it in one pretty much. I actually am in the process of leveling a BR/EA Sent right now and it has been a radical experience -- I'm leveling through Praetoria (as I did on my EB/EA Sentinel -- it's actually a reroll of that character) and I'd like to add that BR Sent got a buff to its AoE at a very slight cost to its ST output. I hardly ever die and I've had multiple "HOW DID I SURVIVE THAT, THAT'S AMAZING" moments that have been just pure gold.

Same experience with my WB/Rad. At 47 I have been pulling groups in +3/4 if we do not have a solid tank.

I had this great group in PI yesterday. No melee at all for the first 10 missions. We rolled with minimal deaths.

If I can get any def buffs like bubbles, most mobs do not even through my Particle Shielding buffer.

Rathulfr · July 22, 2019

I hardly ever die and I've had multiple "HOW DID I SURVIVE THAT, THAT'S AMAZING" moments that have been just pure gold.

This sums up my entire experience with Sentinels. LOL! ;D

For those that care, I opted to re-create my Water/Poison Corruptor as a Water/Invuln Sentinel just to see what happened.

Oh my. I did not expect it to be that much more fun than my Corruptor.

Sovera · July 22, 2019

I see four cones mentioned in Sonic, but isn't at least one just a sleep? Or are they all damage AoEs?

Sunsette · July 22, 2019

I see four cones mentioned in Sonic, but isn't at least one just a sleep? Or are they all damage AoEs?

It's a good question. You're right that Siren's Song is a sleep, and it's not particularly damaging, but it does in fact do damage too. Though for the record, I intended to include any non-damaging AoEs were there any, I just don't believe that there are any.

Sunsette · July 24, 2019

...I will fix what the upgrade did my table later.

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