An Update from The Homecoming Team

[Myrmidon]

14 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I have no issue protecting my interests - fighting FUD.

The GM has spoken!

There is no rule.

If, in the future, there needs to be a rule, one will get made.

 

So why are the creatives _still_ trying to shame people because they like to cosplay, based on some supposition that IF a rule is made, there will be enough 'rule breakers' to shut down the game, when, if fact, there is no real evidence of any of that occurring, only vague fears based on supposition and hearsay?

 

You guys sound like an elementary playground arguing over what type of ice cream you might get if the field trip next year stops for ice cream.

 

What is the intent by the people that just _have_ to let everyone all know how 'bad' coplayers are?

 

And, for the high and mighty posters that just love to throw it out, I advocate for creative freedom and have never, not once, built a trademark, simply because it's not my thing.

The conspiracy theory on that one is easy to shoot down. 

 

People are not slaves to corporate copyrights and trademarks, no matter how much some people fear the Evil Corporations.  

People do not have to play in fear just because a few busy-bodies want to be the costume police to 'save us all'.

 

So really, how many posts about the actual rules on HS have to be posted by the GM before the wannabe costume police and elitist creatives will back off on this?

Really, how many will it take?

I am willing to donate dollars to the GM that makes them so we can get it out of the way so we can stop this FUD from armchair GMs.

Did someone say ice cream?

[jubakumbi]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

@jubakumbi - these are the same kind of people who tell others they "aren't playing right" when they don't do stuff the way they think it should be done. 

I know.

Look at my post history.

The only beef I have with humans are those that want to suppress other humans, based on some made up BS to make themselves 'feel' better.

 

I have dealt with tis dark underbelly of our 'community' since its inception.

 

Some people minds are simply so closed, they 'feel' and 'believe' they must protect the rest of us from ourselves.

My parents are long dead, do not need new ones, thanks.

 

It was obvious to me as HC started, there are elements of these personalities 'at the top'.

I was very happy to see the way they handled the AE resources, not so happy with the way they have announced this initiative.

 

As the GM has stated, they are trying to remain neutral as long as the conversations stay within their boundaries.

 

To me, that just means we have to put up with mean players, which is really nothing new.

[justicebeliever]

I think the people who attack other posters on either side of the copyright issue scare people away from this game...

 

Calling people armchair GM's or costume police doesn't nothing to make the community seem nicer or lower the volume of rhetoric...

 

And people who judge others as playing the game "wrong" for copying another character, probably should look internal as to why they feel like others "have to play" their way...

 

[Myrmidon]

24 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

I think the people who attack other posters on either side of the copyright issue scare people away from this game...

 

Calling people armchair GM's or costume police doesn't nothing to make the community seem nicer or lower the volume of rhetoric...

 

And people who judge others as playing the game "wrong" for copying another character, probably should look internal as to why they feel like others "have to play" their way...

 

Is it too soon for a “KB-KD” post?

[justicebeliever]

52 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Again,  a compelling argument can be made that any character created in the game is a ripoff. 

I'd like to hear one...because I don't think a compelling argument can be made...

 

If you are going to suggest that their are similarities between all types of superheroes, then well, duh!  That's how we can identify some characters in fiction as superheroes and other characters in fiction as NOT superheroes...

 

Likewise, a reasonable person can say something looks like "Superman" and something else doesn't.  You can't draw a realistic cat, give it superpowers and then have that be copyright-able...A realistic looking cat is by itself, not copyright-able...Putting a person in tights, does not make them a copyright-able character.

 

And if you really think that any character is a ripoff, then please explain how any comic creator makes a new entry into the superhero genre without being immediately shutdown...Explain the Justice League and the Squadron Supreme?  Dr. Strange/Dr. Fate, Hawkeye/Green Arrow, Namor/Aquaman, Deadpool/Deathstroke, etc...Yes they are very similar to each other, and yet, not infringement...

[ShardWarrior]

29 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

Calling people armchair GM's or costume police doesn't nothing to make the community seem nicer or lower the volume of rhetoric...

 

Depends on the intent, doesn't it?  Sometimes the shoe fits and the truth hurts, but it is still the truth.  Some folk are more community minded than whereas others are more self centered egoists.  There is nothing wrong with differing opinions.  At least to me, the best is to agree to disagree and let others play the way they want.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, justicebeliever said:

I'd like to hear one...because I don't think a compelling argument can be made...

If you told someone you are playing a male Mutant superhero with claws and regeneration powers, what/who do you think is the first thing that comes to mind?

[justicebeliever]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

 Some folk are more community minded than whereas others are more self centered egoists.  

Name calling makes the community more welcoming?  I guess it's like you said, if the shoe fits...

 

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

There is nothing wrong with differing opinions.  At least to me, the best is to agree to disagree and let others play the way they want.

I agree 100%...there is something wrong with expressing differing opinions in a mean spirited way...

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, justicebeliever said:

Name calling makes the community more welcoming?  I guess it's like you said, if the shoe fits... 

Who did I call a name?  Show me the post where I mention any by name specifically.  You're ascribing the phrase as a negative when it really isn't.

Edited August 17, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[justicebeliever]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

If you told someone you are playing a male Mutant superhero with claws and regeneration powers, what/who do you think is the first thing that comes to mind?

Seriously?  That's the whole argument?  Hahahahaha....

 

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Again,  a compelling argument can be made that any character created in the game is a ripoff. 

See I took this "any character created" to mean that any character created...Not just one specific instance...

 

One example is not an argument of the whole...

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, justicebeliever said:

Seriously?  That's the whole argument?  Hahahahaha....

You didn't answer the question.

[ZacKing]

21 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

If you told someone you are playing a male Mutant superhero with claws and regeneration powers, what/who do you think is the first thing that comes to mind?

Close enough for me to reasonably say clone of Wolverine.   Comics characters are so in-grained into the popular culture it is pretty much impossible to not see it.  If you don't you're disingenuous.

 

Standing in Atlas Park right now, I can probably report about 95% of players here but I don't.  Let others enjoy themselves.  ::shrug::

Edited August 17, 2019 by ZacKing

[Williwaw]

The thing is, you can't copyright an idea.  You can't copyright similarities.  You can't copyright "X reminds me of Y".

 

For example: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/3f/7a/aa3f7ac9338c1589ee3963046c6a0ce2.jpg and https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/0/07/Mark_Desmond_Prime_Earth_01.jpg

 

That's not the Hulk (it's the DC Comics character Blockbuster), and nobody involved is breaking any copyright laws, because you can't copyright or even trademark "Large muscular guy with torn clothing and greenish skin".

 

Unless the character is actually wearing Wolverine's costume and is named "Wolverine" (or "W0|v3r1n3"), then you can't report it as a clone of Wolverine. (I mean, you can report it, and from there it's up to the GMs to decide whether they want to deal with it, but a Mutant Claws/Regen Scrapper is not, in and of itself, breaking any copyright or trademark laws)

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Williwaw

[justicebeliever]

48 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

You didn't answer the question.

Neither did you make a compelling argument that ANY character is a rip-off...

 

Making an argument that some characters are rip-offs is unnecessary...again, of course it's true...doesn't require me to answer the question...any more than asking if I like bananas makes a compelling argument...

 

But I did ask you to explain several examples of deep similarities in the post before you, and I didn't see those answers here either...

 

58 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Who did I call a name?  Show me the post where I mention any by name specifically.  You're ascribing the phrase as a negative when it really isn't.

I didn't say you did specifically...you responded to my post, which was critiquing the policy of name calling, by defending the practice...So whether you did it or endorsed it, it's still the same...

 

I'm not trying to get into a personal attack here with anyone...my posts have been pretty clear - I'm not in favor of policing "copycats", but trying to muddy the waters by saying all characters are copycats doesn't help the cause...

[ZacKing]

Just now, justicebeliever said:

Neither did you make a compelling argument that ANY character is a rip-off...

I think any mutant who is claws regen is compelling enough for me to think Wolverine.  Superheroes are burned into the brain of the culture now.  It's impossible not to see the similarity. 

[justicebeliever]

11 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

I think any mutant who is claws regen is compelling enough for me to think Wolverine.  Superheroes are burned into the brain of the culture now.  It's impossible not to see the similarity. 

That's fair...but similarity doesn't mean infringement or rip-off...Mutant as an origin (in fact all the origins), are pretty moot in CoH, since they have no impact, and mutants in CoH in no way resemble Marvel's at all...In fact, besides Outcasts, who are the mutants in CoH?  I'm sure there's a couple I am missing, but they aren't really a "faction" in the game.

 

As for claws/regen that are pretty similar to Wolvie, but aren't infringements:

 

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/ripclaw/4005-26501/

 

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/pantha/4005-3585/

 

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/deadlock/4005-41591/

 

And my point is only that there is lots of room for creativity, homages, pastiches without even venturing into the infringement territory...It's not "all characters should be allowed or no characters should be allowed", which is a ridiculous argument...

 

And I don't have a personal problem with direct copies...it's not my thing personally, and i won't seek you out to team with you, but it doesn't make me sad or angry if that's the route you go...

Edited August 17, 2019 by justicebeliever

[ZacKing]

Copycats are not an infringement in my opinion. 

[Abraxus]

3 hours ago, GM Capocollo said:

It is too early to worry about "costume police", but it is also short-sighted to say that it can never be a concern.

That's it in a nutshell for me. 

It's NOT a thing right now.  All of this discussion is more of a "what if" scenario on the premise that the negotiations are successful, and the many permutations of what that might mean in the future.  So, to perhaps give some thought to things of that nature, and each of us do our part try to avoid the obvious land mines now, to avoid a scramble in the event this DOES become a thing.  Nobody is telling anyone else how to play, or what to make.  But, the quest for legitimacy is liable to have an effect on what's permissible, and overlooked in the future, as opposed to the current landscape where anything goes.  Some won't take the hint.  Some won't care, until it affects them, or their character.  Then watch the complaints fly about how they had no idea this was coming, or why it happened.  Some might be able to legitimately make that claim, because they don't really read the forums, or anything else concerning the game, or the changes that a successful deal with likely bring.  They just play.  But, for those of us that do, if such a thing were to become a reality, none of us should be surprised by it.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Abraxus

[Abraxus]

9 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Copycats are not an infringement in my opinion. 

I feel the same way.  But, when it comes to legal issues, our opinion on it doesn't matter.  Our only real choice is to do what it requires, or be aware of the consequences if we choose not to.  In this case, the consequences could be to "generic-ize" your character.  It's not happening now, and it hasn't been said that it will happen in a post-NCSoft deal.  But, it is a possibility to be aware of, and to plan accordingly, not unlike most other things in life. 😎

[ZacKing]

copycats are not being sold as the real thing.  Basically all of the ones I've seen in my time here are more parody than anything else. 

[Ukase]

I agree with Abraxus. Folks, tomorrow isn't promised to us. Not in real life, nor in this game. Anything could happen. Enjoy what you have now, and be cautiously optimistic. 

These are good first world problems to have. 

 

[justicebeliever]

11 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

copycats are not being sold as the real thing.  Basically all of the ones I've seen in my time here are more parody than anything else. 

I'm not sure I follow...

 

Legally, copying someone else's work is considered infringement...selling something isn't relevant to the discussion...the profitability isn't relevant...There's over 250 years of precedent that says copying someone else's work is illegal....

 

Except for fair use, which makes for a just a few exceptions, and quite possibly fan creations may land in this area, but it hasn't been definitively decided at this point...

 

What's clear is that Marvel sued NCSoft/Cryptic shortly after the game went live...the suit was settled (many call it a win for NCSoft), but regardless, immediately after rules went into place about making direct copy of characters or character names in the game...

 

EDIT:  Parody is one such exception, but parady requires you to be making fun of the copied subject, and while I have seen a few, they are not the norm when it comes to copycats

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by justicebeliever
Added Parody Fair Use exception

[ZacKing]

copycats here aren't being sold as the real deal.  you're not Batman or Spiderman running around in Metropolis fighting Brainiac or the Kingpin.  And forget about the Marvel suit.  That was years ago.  marvel was a different company back then and was looking to break into the game industry.  They've got enough products out there on the market now.  I doubt they will even bat an eye over this.

[GM Capocollo]

2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

If you told someone you are playing a male Mutant superhero with claws and regeneration powers, what/who do you think is the first thing that comes to mind?

Knuckles the Echidna.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, GM Capocollo said:

Knuckles the Echidna.

LOL!!  Too funny 😛