Pylon Damage Thread

Kaeladin · June 11, 2019

My current build as requested; I've made quite a few variations and this is the one I currently run that allows me to soft-cap s/l while running the optimal rotation (which I posted prior). The second follow through is key for increasing your base DPS by a substantial amount (hence the need to slot a lot of recharge into it + have decent global recharge).

I also have another version that drops a decent level of recharge in order to s/l/e/n cap. Depending on more playtesting, I might opt for that if I feel the need for more survivability.

One other note: the build lists the T4 version of the incarnates I plan to aim for, but at present I have the T3's of each (big case of alt-itis means I bounce between a lot of character builds and concepts).

Enjoy.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962

http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper

Primary Power Set: Titan Weapons

Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor

Power Pool: Fighting

Power Pool: Leaping

Power Pool: Speed

Power Pool: Leadership

Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:

Level 1: Crushing Blow

(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(5) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(7) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff

Level 1: Hardened Carapace

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
(7) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
(9) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
(9) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
(11) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 2: Inexhaustible

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

Level 4: Environmental Modification

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(13) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(13) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 6: Follow Through

(A) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
(15) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(15) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
(17) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
(17) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
(19) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)

Level 8: Build Momentum

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
(19) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff
(21) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge

Level 10: Adaptation

Level 12: Boxing

(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(21) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(23) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 14: Tough

(A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
(25) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(25) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(27) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(27) Reactive Armor - Endurance

Level 16: Ablative Carapace

(A) Panacea - Heal/Endurance
(29) Panacea - Endurance/Recharge
(40) Panacea - Hea/Recharge
(42) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(42) Panacea - Heal

Level 18: Rend Armor

(A) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage
(31) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance
(33) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(33) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(33) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
(34) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff

Level 20: Evolving Armor

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(34) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(34) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(36) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge

Level 22: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 24: Combat Jumping

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(37) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
(37) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 26: Whirling Smash

(A) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
(37) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(39) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
(39) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
(39) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
(40) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge

Level 28: DNA Siphon

(A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
(29) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(31) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
(31) Healing IO
(40) Healing IO

Level 30: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(42) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 32: Arc of Destruction

(A) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage
(43) Superior Critical Strikes - Damage/RechargeTime
(43) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(43) Superior Critical Strikes - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(45) Superior Critical Strikes - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(45) Superior Critical Strikes - RechargeTime/+50% Crit Proc

Level 35: Genetic Contamination

(A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
(45) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(46) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 38: Parasitic Aura

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 41: Water Spout

(A) Ragnarok - Damage
(46) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
(46) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(48) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
(48) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance

Level 44: Spirit Shark Jaws

(A) Unbreakable Constraint - Hold
(48) Unbreakable Constraint - Hold/Recharge
(50) Unbreakable Constraint - Accuracy/Hold/Recharge
(50) Unbreakable Constraint - Accuracy/Recharge
(50) Unbreakable Constraint - Endurance/Hold

Level 47: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 49: Defensive Sweep

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Empty

Level 1: Critical Hit

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Empty

Level 2: Rest

(A) Empty

Level 4: Ninja Run

Level 2: Swift

(A) Empty

Level 2: Health

(A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
(11) Miracle - +Recovery

Level 2: Hurdle

(A) Empty

Level 2: Stamina

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

Level 1: Momentum

Level 10: Defensive Adaptation

Level 10: Efficient Adaptation

Level 10: Offensive Adaptation

Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon

Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment

Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany

Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement

Level 50: Cimeroran Core Superior Ally

------------

marcussmythe · June 11, 2019

Live Server (Everlasting)

Titan Weapon/Bio Armor Scrapper (my live character)

T3 Musculature Core Revamp

T3 Reactive Pardial Radial Conversion

T3 Ageless Partial Core Invocation (for endurance)

T3 Assault Total Radial Graft (did not use the clicky on any tests; just the passive damage bonus)

Offensive Adaptation; needed to turn off Tough.

No outside buffs, no recovery serum, no inspirations. Strictly just what my character has.

I always wanted to try these pylon tests again when the server came up on live. Here's my modus for each test so you know exactly how I timed these attempts:

Hasten + Ageless (prepull stage) - Begin timer as soon as I hit Build Momentum.

First Attempt: 1:51 (first time killing a pylon in ages; was rusty) = 473.25DPS

Second Attempt: 1:32 = 544.59DPS

Third Attempt: 1:39 = 515.12DPS

Fourth Attempt: 1:34 = 535.72DPS

Fifth Attempt (used water spout after prepull, began timer as soon as water spout was being cast): 1:23 = 589.79DPS

Other notes: This is my PvE live server character, meaning I have some slots diverted (from traditional pylon testing-oriented builds) for more endurance management and healing in ablative and DNA siphon (which I did not use at all in these tests). My water spout did not have a -res proc in it. If I diverted slots from DNA siphon particularly, I could slot a -res proc into water spout + slot a recharge into my Build Momentum.

I'm reasonably certain, given what I was seeing with the current build I'm running, that I could get my kill time to under 1:20 with these changes with decent consistency.

Rotation: Rend Armor (activate momentum) - Follow Through - Arc of Destruction - Crushing Blow - Follow Through.

During Build Momentum: prioritize Follow Through - Rend Armor - Arc of Destruction - Crushing Blow.

Does Ageless impact your ability to do your ideal rotation, or do you have sufficient recharge to hit it without Ageless?

How much recharge do you think is required, total?

What I'm finding interesting with the Titan/Bio approach is that it really illustrates power-at-a-price: You can push DPS to crazy levels, with increasing sacrifices in your build. I wonder how much DPS is left in Titan/Bio if you build to softcap all - or is my preference, build to softcap in Defensive Stance, with all remaining 'headroom' in recharge, and maybe in +DAM if that can be fit in.

Kaeladin · June 11, 2019

Great question. I can do my rotation without ageless (or even just the 10% recharge component of ageless; I don't think I even need that).

The key piece is having enough recharge to fit in the second Follow Through (FT); that is a substantial base DPS increase (and therefore a large DPS increase in general that becomes even more so as you stack more +damage).

When I run bio armor characters, especially on scrapper, I (both personally and from a number's perspective) see it as a very, very strong offensively-oriented set that can also run good, albeit spiky, endurance management and enough defenses to do the job you need. It's a mixed set (similar to willpower), except that its focus is more about a strong offense; perfect for my kind of playstyle.

According to my calculations, you need enough recharge to hit your second FT after Arc of Destruction + Crushing Blow in the rotation I mentioned. That's 3.168s of arcanatime (tooltip time for both moves would be 2.7s total). I would aim for enough recharge on your Followthrough to be faster than that 3.168s threshold, but I am not sure if you need much more beyond that; in my current build, I run 165% global recharge (without ageless but with hasten active) + 97.39% recharge slotted into FT which equals 2.76s recharge on my FT. That's more cooldown than needed for the Arcanatime calculation, but a little less than the tooltip time and I am 99.99% sure that I can do the rotation with just that.

To give some idea of what softcapping s/l/e/n would require (which my other build does; fire and cold softcap is not important at all at high end), you'd drop about 30-40% recharge off the build or so. Take from that what you will; that means there's more times with the softcapped version where you won't be able to squeeze in that second FT. But even without it, TW's DPS is monstrous.

JediDave · June 11, 2019

Fire/rad troller, 198 seconds (3:18) for ~320dps

That was with no lore pets, and kept getting knocked back every so often

With lore pets and break frees- 70 seconds (1:10) for ~675dps

So yeah, lore pets do a LOT of dps, that was with longbow

itaalh · June 11, 2019

Fire/rad troller, 198 seconds (3:18) for ~320dps

That was with no lore pets, and kept getting knocked back every so often

With lore pets and break frees- 70 seconds (1:10) for ~675dps

So yeah, lore pets do a LOT of dps, that was with longbow

you probably used lingering radiation too ?

JediDave · June 12, 2019

Fire/rad troller, 198 seconds (3:18) for ~320dps

That was with no lore pets, and kept getting knocked back every so often

With lore pets and break frees- 70 seconds (1:10) for ~675dps

So yeah, lore pets do a LOT of dps, that was with longbow

you probably used lingering radiation too ?

I mean, it's within my powerset and I use it on AVs as well, so yeah

Astredax · June 12, 2019

So, thanks to this work:
Bio Armor>Fire Armor for Plus-DPS

Bio Armor != Saving Sentinel DPS

Thank you for your efforts.

This is probably accurate, but I don't think 10:45 is the ceiling here.

My fire/rad sentinel is at ~215 DPS (7:16), on one try starting when Hybrid was on CD.

Attack chain Blaze -> Flares -> Blazing -> Flares, Aim with Gaussian BU + Inferno with Arma Fire and Fury -RES.

Setup: Hybrid T4 (doublehit), Reactive T4 (-75% res, -25% dot), Cardiac T4

Given that Meltdown < Offensive, I'd expect a Fire/Bio to push this time down. End management being a nonissue, you could likely include Fireball in your attack chain with an additional -RES proc too!

**

Edit: crafted T4 Degen (-75% maxHp, -25% dot) on the aforementioned fire/rad sentinel, and gave it another go. 5:20, ~247 DPS.

Hybrid was ready right away, so, this might account for more difference than Degen vs Reactive. Or, it could be luck.

Just did this on my fire/bio, it has T4 Agility, T4 Doublestrike, and T4 Degen. Got roughly 4 mins 35 seconds give or take a couple seconds, DPS should be 260something, was just trying to ballpark it. When I didn't use hybrid, it was pretty close to your time using hybrid, interestingly enough.

I don't have gaussian's in Aim, and the build is kind of made to be defensive so it has softcap to everything, 70% S/L resist etc. etc. I'm sure this could be brought down using a build that had an optimized attack chain, procs, etc. I used Blaze, mind probe, flares, blaze, flares, flame blast, blaze. If blazing blast gets its damage bug fixed, swapping in blazing blast would allow for a better attack chain as well. Also, the fireball idea is a good idea since my end bar basically never moves. I don't have the -res in it, and honestly forgot to fireball instead of fire blast, so that also dropped my time a bit. I guess a sentinel might actually be able to get sub 4 minutes if you do all those things and have a better damage build.

itaalh · June 12, 2019

Fire/rad troller, 198 seconds (3:18) for ~320dps

That was with no lore pets, and kept getting knocked back every so often

With lore pets and break frees- 70 seconds (1:10) for ~675dps

So yeah, lore pets do a LOT of dps, that was with longbow

you probably used lingering radiation too ?

I mean, it's within my powerset and I use it on AVs as well, so yeah

can you try without it, so we can have an idea of the effectiveness of -500% regen debuff ? (not sure how it works on Objects like pylon, only 1/6th of its value like GM ?)

DSorrow · June 12, 2019

Fire/rad troller, 198 seconds (3:18) for ~320dps

That was with no lore pets, and kept getting knocked back every so often

With lore pets and break frees- 70 seconds (1:10) for ~675dps

So yeah, lore pets do a LOT of dps, that was with longbow

you probably used lingering radiation too ?

I mean, it's within my powerset and I use it on AVs as well, so yeah

can you try without it, so we can have an idea of the effectiveness of -500% regen debuff ? (not sure how it works on Objects like pylon, only 1/6th of its value like GM ?)

It's probably going to cut the DPS by roughly 127.8 as that's the regen rate of a pylon and they don't have any -Regen resistance AFAIK.

Murcielago · June 12, 2019

Incarnate pets have tremendous damage output.

It's considered "against the rules" in the context of Pylon Damage runs. But it's also a good reminder that for the vast majority of builds, within a 5 minute window, your DPS pales compared to the DPS of your Lore pets.

Which has some gameplay implications: if your goal is to take down tough targets like AVs on your own, -RES procs are king (as they act as a multiplier to your pet damage, too). Likewise, any ally or AOE damage buff you get significantly boosts Lore pets. Unlike you, they have no enhancements, so +30% DAM is exactly that, adding 30% to their damage output.

I said the same thing in the original pylon thread and got poopoo'd.

Auroxis · June 12, 2019

I mean if you wanna post lore pet times or -regen times, go ahead. But don't expect to get listed up together with builds that don't use situational DPS tools like that, and don't try to derail the thread from its established purpose.

marcussmythe · June 12, 2019

I like seeing the -regen times. Even if they dont reflect raw DPS out, they are informative as to -effective- DPS out, as against a superhard target. (caveat, of course, that such may not reflect performance as against the gold standard superhard target - the debuff resistant Archvillian)

Inasmuch as it reflects abilities inherit to the character/powerset and synergies thereby, Im for it.

Im a bit at a loss as to how we want to weigh incarnates - my thought is ‘everything is fair game except lore pets’ - everything feeds into your output, and they are still permanent ‘powers’ the character has. Lore pets are arguably no different (for anyone with a Lore Slot) - but for me at least their impact is just too large to include, because they swamp everything else to the point of blurring distinctions.

This does denegrate the DPS performance of buff providers with their pets, however. Lore pets have relatively more value on, say, a Kinetics Defender than on my tank. (Oh god. Fulcrum Shifted Cimmerorans!) - and its a fair cop that ‘transform friends into gods’ is rather the point of certain ATs, and a greater ability to take advantage of those friends is an aspect of that AT that does translate to ‘damage outbound’.

As such, Im still interested in what a debuffing/buffing summoner can put out, even with the loriest if lorepets as multipliers - because I think it will be interesting (appaling, stunning) what the answer is, and I like having more data - even if we dont list it in the same category as Bob the Solo Scrapper.

For me, the point of Pylons is not to display power - but to collect data that can inform player decision making. YMM, of course, V.

DSorrow · June 12, 2019

I mean if you wanna post lore pet times or -regen times, go ahead. But don't expect to get listed up together with builds that don't use situational DPS tools like that, and don't try to derail the thread from its established purpose.

I don't really take issue with -Regen being included in the times so long as it is acknowledged. For most intents and purposes -Regen = DPS and most -Regen abilities are up constantly enough not to be situational and its effect is pretty easy to quantify. Besides with /Bio (/Rad as well?) and Interface all melee ATs have access to it too so should any times with those be treated differently? Lore pets and Hybrid (besides the passive boost) should be left out though because of their limited uptime.

With the proliferation of -Regen I'd say the "rules" of the pylon test could be no temporary powers and no situational powers outside of your primary/secondary. That should give a pretty good representation of the build's consistent output and any smart players already know that numbers with -Regen in them won't transfer 1-to-1 from a pylon to an AV.

marcussmythe · June 12, 2019

Though some debuff sets will floor an AV, as well... though as you point out, a player who is looking at Pylon times can likely be assumed to be aware of such things.

Auroxis · June 12, 2019

I mean if you wanna post lore pet times or -regen times, go ahead. But don't expect to get listed up together with builds that don't use situational DPS tools like that, and don't try to derail the thread from its established purpose.

I don't really take issue with -Regen being included in the times so long as it is acknowledged. For most intents and purposes -Regen = DPS and most -Regen abilities are up constantly enough not to be situational and its effect is pretty easy to quantify. Besides with /Bio (/Rad as well?) and Interface all melee ATs have access to it too so should any times with those be treated differently? Lore pets and Hybrid (besides the passive boost) should be left out though because of their limited uptime.

With the proliferation of -Regen I'd say the "rules" of the pylon test could be no temporary powers and no situational powers outside of your primary/secondary. That should give a pretty good representation of the build's consistent output and any smart players already know that numbers with -Regen in them won't transfer 1-to-1 from a pylon to an AV.

It doesn't take much to floor an AV's regen. -regen doesn't benefit from damage buffs and resistance debuffs either.

Hybrid Assault works fine because it doesn't really alter the base formula.

marcussmythe · June 12, 2019

I mean if you wanna post lore pet times or -regen times, go ahead. But don't expect to get listed up together with builds that don't use situational DPS tools like that, and don't try to derail the thread from its established purpose.

I don't really take issue with -Regen being included in the times so long as it is acknowledged. For most intents and purposes -Regen = DPS and most -Regen abilities are up constantly enough not to be situational and its effect is pretty easy to quantify. Besides with /Bio (/Rad as well?) and Interface all melee ATs have access to it too so should any times with those be treated differently? Lore pets and Hybrid (besides the passive boost) should be left out though because of their limited uptime.

With the proliferation of -Regen I'd say the "rules" of the pylon test could be no temporary powers and no situational powers outside of your primary/secondary. That should give a pretty good representation of the build's consistent output and any smart players already know that numbers with -Regen in them won't transfer 1-to-1 from a pylon to an AV.

It doesn't take much to floor an AV's regen. -regen doesn't benefit from damage buffs and resistance debuffs either.

Hybrid Assault works fine because it doesn't really alter the base formula.

"Archvillains are also noteworthy for having strong debuff resistance that scales by level. As of Issue 9, this resistance applies to -RunSpeed, -Recharge, -Endurance, -ToHit, -Defense, -Perception, -Regeneration, and -Recovery. "

The above is from Paragonwiki - which is I will grant a wiki - but it is the best information I have at my fingertips. If this is not the case, please let me know?

I will note that when soloing AVs, I have to -hammer- them constantly with Enchanted Daggers to keep their regen under control - but the plural of anecdote is not data.

Auroxis · June 12, 2019

Their debuff resistance is high, but the regen debuffs from rad, cold, thermal, dark and traps are so strong that it doesn't matter.

DSorrow · June 12, 2019

It doesn't take much to floor an AV's regen. -regen doesn't benefit from damage buffs and resistance debuffs either.

Hybrid Assault works fine because it doesn't really alter the base formula.

-Regen doesn't stack beyond a point either, but it does take a bit to floor an AV. If the wikis are up to date (https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Archvillain) even -500% isn't enough to floor an even level AV, let alone anything higher. If https://cityofheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Archvillain_Resistance is a separate effect for the applicable AVs, -Regen does piddly squat against them with the triangles up. Basically any levels of -Regen a non-debuffer can attain are completely meaningless against AVs which is why I think it's important to note how much -Regen you actually had in your time because it doesn't take much to reduce a Pylon's regeneration significantly, but it takes a whole lot to even dent an AV's.

Just because it doesn't work with a formula is not enough to dismiss it, in my opinion. The DPS = Pylon formula and anything that somehow breaks it is not allowed line of thinking is way too reductionist to be valuable in most actual gameplay situations anyway. If we want to talk about actually meaningful DPS values we should include enemy Resistance distributions (sorry, S/L sets) and other such variables that can't really be represented in any sort of simple, standardized DPS test, which means any result we'd get out of one will be inherently biased.

Then again, I think disallowing -Regen while allowing -Resistance is just stupid. It's easy to quantify the effects of both in the Pylon test and a smart player will have a pretty good idea where the -Res and -Regen will be useful and how much of their effect can be expected to carry over. Not allowing temp powers or anything with a "volatile" uptime (like Lore pets: 5mins up, 10mins down) is just obviously good practice when you're trying to evaluate the consistent maximum output of a powerset combination.

Auroxis · June 12, 2019

Two regen debuffs from the aforementioned sets = floored regen. Which means that theoretical extra 100 DPS you're adding (only in AV fights, doesn't get multiplied by resistance debuffs and damage buffs) gets reduced to zero.

Why are resistance debuffs getting included?

1. It's hard to remove them from the equation, seeing as you want and can get resistance debuffs in almost every build.

2. The resistance debuff cap is way harder for teams to reach.

3. They multiply DPS, which is what this whole thread was started about.

DSorrow · June 12, 2019

Two regen debuffs from the aforementioned sets = floored regen. Which means that theoretical extra 100 DPS you're adding (only in AV fights, doesn't get multiplied by resistance debuffs and damage buffs) gets reduced to zero.

Yet, none out of Cold, Rad or Thermal can consistently double stack their -Regen solo so you'll need a teammate.

Why are resistance debuffs getting included?

1. It's hard to remove them from the equation, seeing as you want and can get resistance debuffs in almost every build.

You can also get -Regen in any build you want to, thanks to Interface. I'm not questioning the Rikti Pylon formula, I'm just saying the Pylon formula = DPS thinking is incredibly reductionist in a game where you have a vast number of modifiers that vary significantly between enemies: rank modifiers, typed damage resistances, regeneration rates, max HPs, etc.

2. The resistance debuff cap is way harder for teams to reach.

Flooring regen against AVs isn't trivial for most teams either.

3. They multiply DPS, which is what this whole thread was started about.

Why should we make a distinction between buffs/debuffs that multiply or just add (effective) DPS? So much of the Rikti Pylon test data is going to be situational anyway it doesn't make any sense to me that -Regen wouldn't be on the "official" list.

Auroxis · June 12, 2019

Yet, none out of Cold, Rad or Thermal can consistently double stack their -Regen solo so you'll need a teammate.

Yes, but a 3rd teammate won't add anything. Meanwhile a 3rd, 5th or 12th teammate with DPS and resistance debuffs will.

You can also get -Regen in any build you want to, thanks to Interface. I'm not questioning the Rikti Pylon formula, I'm just saying the Pylon formula = DPS thinking is incredibly reductionist in a game where you have a vast number of modifiers that vary significantly between enemies: rank modifiers, typed damage resistances, regeneration rates, max HPs, etc.

From my understanding the -regen from interface is fairly minimal, and you lose out on a DoT. So it's a wash.

Is it reductionist? Sure, it was never intended to accurately portray how your character will perform at the end-game. If you have a better idea for a challenge that tests your endgame performance, go ahead and create a thread about it.

DSorrow · June 12, 2019

To get back on topic, tested with my Ill/Cold for a best result at 166 seconds for 359 DPS (including Benumb). Only a T3 Alpha so far so I expect it to get a bit better once I get my Interface slot unlocked. Phantasm is also notably useless as he wants to hug the Pylon which get him killed within the first half a minute every single time.

Corruption · June 12, 2019

I need to time this on my SS/Fire. I've only tried it once, bringing the pylon down to 5% HP without timing it, then a MSR team swooped in and finished it off.

nihilii · June 12, 2019

For me, the point of Pylons is not to display power - but to collect data that can inform player decision making. YMM, of course, V.

^^ This.

Damage on Pylons is good as a baseline, and then everyone uses their own judgement as to what the numbers mean.

Which means the more info, the better. :) Attack chains, incarnates used, even builds... It's all worth sharing. There's no problem with Lore or -regen or anything, as long as the info is out there.

As characters got stronger over the years, and especially with Lore, it could be interesting to have a different type of standardized test; because when times get to the sub 2 minutes range, getting accurate results become harder and harder.

Say, a lvl 54 AV in AE, pure punchbag without attacks. Probably more representative of the situations where we need DPS as fully IOed out incarnate builds. :)

Eva Destruction · June 12, 2019

First try on my Fire/Elec Blaster, 4 min exactly. Which works out to 287 DPS. Which is pathetic, considering this is a Blaster, damage is supposed to be our thing. I need to get Lightning Field back at least.

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